Dick Balkins, do you really think I will read your wall of text?
YES !!!!
Yes, if you are going to respond. Don't you realize that if you respond to people that you read what they wrote as you would listen to what they say before you respond. There is some basic etiquette. While we all know we have have been falling short of that.
I don't care whether you respond as quickly as you would a short post. I would expect you to have read and understand what I am saying. That way, we can avoid some unneccessary debates caused simply by not reading and just knee jerk reacting to cherry picked sentences without understanding the real point.
Jan 11, 16 6:38 pm ·
·
no_form,
You don't understand what I said so just shut up and not respond.
I've lived in Portland for four years and not a single thing in that last post is even remotely accurate. I feel pity for people who actually live with that sort of unfounded fear.
Rick go get a job. I understand your small minded deluded world view from having read enough of your garbage over the past year. Get a job. Get a job. Get a job. You need therapy. You need therapy. Get a job.
Jan 11, 16 6:52 pm ·
·
tduds:
If there was even ONE real architectural firm to set up in the Astoria area that employs (not just architecture school graduates)
Not really tduds. Architecture school graduates isn't necessarily a qualifier. Glorified art school isn't much of a qualifier for the skills needed to produce deliverables that clients wants to pay money for.
Wrong balkins. My Patience with your rants is limited to 3 sentences, and that's on one of your good days.
Jan 11, 16 7:32 pm ·
·
tduds,
I've lived in Portland for four years and not a single thing in that last post is even remotely accurate. I feel pity for people who actually live with that sort of unfounded fear.
I was talking about gang violence and thieves and other crap that I wouldn't need. Don't completely confuse the nature of the gang violence being the same as in Los Angeles which I was referring to in the beginning. However, I frankly don't care what the driving force for the gang violence. I really am not into that kind of environment that I would be coming across in living in that environment. As you can see, there is plenty of reason to be concern. Gang shootings for example. Do you think I feel like dodging bullets?
I've lived in Astoria long for 20+ years. I have received news from Portland, Oregon on TV. It doesn't take a slide rule to know that there is plenty of gang violence that goes on. If it didn't exist, it wouldn't be on the news would it?
Frankly, I had close call before. As close a call as a matter of just a difference in timing. Had they chosen to do the drive by shooting just an hour or two earlier, I could have easily been in the midst of the drive by shooting. I do take that kind of crap seriously because innocent people are often the ones that get harmed or killed by this careless wanton act of violence. It is this kind of bullshit I don't get fond of. When I was in 7th grade, I walked down the very street that the drive by shooting occured on that very day. It was just a matter of timing. In that drive by shooting, a fellow 7th grade student was shot and killed. This was just after the first day of class. An innocent life cut short because of a senseless act of violence. I still remember the name of that kid whose's life was cut short.
For me, I care that the place I live doesn't routinely or regularly have senseless acts of gang violence. I understand that no place is absolutely free of such violence or like violence. Where I live, that kind of violence is much rarer. I have yet to see the kind of gang activities that results in activities like drive by shooting aside from an idiot shooting a deer in city limits. While there are gangs that mostly does a little bit of tagging of buildings once in awhile. We don't usually see the kind of violent nonsense of gangs.
Most violent crimes in Astoria are domestic violence and the occassional thieves. We just don't see that kind of activity at all. While Portland maybe tamer place when it comes to gang violence compared to Astoria, Oregon.... I wouldn't say it is true that they are not there or that they are not present doing such. It is clear with evidence that there is gang shooting that goes on. It is documented in Portland. We do not see that kind of stuff in Astoria.
I'm not saying Portland is crime-free, I'm saying the conclusions you're drawing from a handful of incidents (especially citing local news, whose job it is to sensationalize the isolated incidents that do occur) are overblown.
Then again, drawing sweeping conclusions from things you have no personal experience in by citing a few cherry picked internet sources is sort of your thing, isn't it?
Jan 11, 16 7:50 pm ·
·
tduds,
Spoken like someone who never went.
I was rattling your chain but the end result of their work is to be put mildly, is questionable. I have seen work from students even in final terminal studio that would fail structural if it was a real project. Amazing as it may seem, some people just aren't really prepared to engage in the profession, prepare real construction documents, etc. I have seen professional construction documents prepared by competent architects and building designers. If you spend 5 years in college full-time, you really should be already ready to do this even for small structures like houses, town halls and duplex and small commercial.
In 5 years of experience, a building designer should be able to prepare floor plans for a 2-3 story house, 4 elevations and wall sections in 3 days (8 hour days) from a set of specifications. While it isn't necessarily really designing as you can design, you should be able to achieve that in 24 hours of work. With a thoughtful design, and a complete CD set, in 10 days. When you have two terms (or 22+ weeks to do it), you should have the time to design and prepare complete presentation and a complete CD set or at least a DD level set. The rendering should be able to encompass all that.
That's just an honest point of view about some of the work I have seen. There are others that have done better.
Jan 11, 16 7:58 pm ·
·
tduds,
Do you really think I am going to go out of my way to personally experience gang violence? Are you a f---ing idiot?
I'm saying you could live in central Portland and still have to deliberately go out of your way to personally experience gang violence.
Jan 11, 16 8:10 pm ·
·
tdud, I surely hope you don't mean that you are suggesting that I put myself in harms way of gang violence to personally experience gang violence in Portland.
Jan 11, 16 8:11 pm ·
·
You say that I would have to go out of my way. Tell that to the victims of the crimes. Are you sure they all just go out of their way to experience gang shootings?
While media sensationalize as they do, the fact is they get the data from where? The Police department. Public Information requests. Do you think that Frankie Romero gone out of his way to personally experience being shot by a gang's drive by shooting?
No I'm saying your fears of gang violence are overblown and they're getting in the way of your ability to experience the world, which is sad. I'm sad for you.
Generally speaking, drawing construction plans is a cheap and thankless job. Even more so with residential construction. If you actually did renovations and such, that would have been a good start for you to go trade and start building with your own hands, so to speak, thus earning real money. However, that's not possible from what I gather.
Blueprint drafting is not the same as being a 'designer'. Should you aim to become a designer, you must check exactly under what conditions can you work as one.
From what I remember, the design and general review of residential buildings under 500 (or 600?) m2 or under 3 storeys, can be legally performed by non-architects, according to some building codes. However, it's very likely that, as a designer, you must have some certifications, and be at least registered with the local authorities. Check with the municipality in your area, and check the building code also in your area, to find out exactly what is the legal framework. Many if not most homes fall within that category, so there is a market for 'designers'.
If you have connections and a decent network, you might give it a try at home design. Having said that, a designer must do a whole lot more that drafting blueprints, so if mobility is an issue, it may not be a realistic outcome.
If you truly are stuck in front of a computer, then I suggest you also look at venues other than residential drafting. Google 'best jobs done from a laptop" for instance. Such jobs do not necessarily have to be IT or CS related.
To be honest with you, tduds, while that maybe the case for some but not always the case.We diverted talking about that too much anyway.
There are reasons people do not want to spend their lives living in big cities. Why should being forced to live in a big city be a requirement to becoming licensed.
I'm not saying visiting Portland. I done that a numerous times over the years. Portland isn't exactly where I want to live my life. Experience this world....LOL.... experience the world shoved up your rear ass?.... that is one experience I have the pleasure of never having experienced and be inclined to not experience.
True, when one looks at the state of most suburbs. As JH Kunstler said - "places not worth caring about".
Jan 11, 16 8:38 pm ·
·
AdrianFGA,
Thanks for bringing that point across. I agree, there are multiple jobs that doesn't isn't necessarily IT or CS related.
I suggested for example video games and software development. While video games maybe seen as a waste of time for some but the purpose of video games is entertainment as is movies. It's an avenue for creativity while also being an avenue where a person can make serious money if they are good. When I say serious money, I am talking big capital and big money and various levels in between making a few bucks to making Billions of dollars a year.
There are many roles that one can have in the field of video game development or broader software development. Video games are big business and lots of capital opportunity. Software development as well. There is a lot of financial opportunity if you take the steps like various forms of crowdfunding, venture capitalism (something you will have near zero chance of ever seeing in the architecture field).
I agree that there are other occupations for working from home.
You need help Richard. You are letting a 23 year old incident scare you out of having a life.
Jan 11, 16 9:03 pm ·
·
JBeaumont,
You can have a life anywhere. Living in a big city isn't the only place to have a life.
I think you are not really talking about having a life so much as career.
I raised that point as to understand that I do care about the place being reasonably safe. If we are talking about life and living in a place then we talking talking about life time committment to live at the place. If we are talking living in Portland, are we talking about 1 year, 2 year or 30 years or 50 years. What is the duration of commitment to the place.
I'm not into moving place to place because why own a home if you move and move and move every few years or so. It is environmentally unsustainable to design houses if that is what our culture is becoming a culture of gypsies.
To the OP: I can't read everyone's responses here. It has gone off the rails.
As an architect, I'm not threatened by folks who do drafting of residential structures. I think they come in many categories - some are completely incompetent (I make some money off these projects) and some know what they are doing.
There is a world of difference between what it appears to take to draw a building and what it actually takes. Most architects learn a bit in school but most on the job. For me - about 20 years of experience - I feel I'm still learning - and I'm OK with that.
Learning the software is part of it, but it's just a tool. Learning WHAT to draw is more important.
I understand why you've decided this might be a good option. My biggest concern (beyond the "can you actually learn to draw the right stuff" question) is that - in my experience - one needs to visit the buildings / job sites before you can draw. Many of my projects - and I suspect many of my colleagues would agree - are renovations of, or additions to - existing buildings. You cannot work on these until you visit, measure and see what the existing conditions are.
You might be able to do contract drafting for an architect or builder - and work only on new buildings or ?? In this case, I'd recommend you look into engineering drafting - there are MANY fields that are less grounded in the need to visit the buildings.
In construction, this could include plumbing, electrical, HVAC, fire protection, fire alarm systems. In other engineering fields, I'm afraid I'm not much use - I don't know what those guys do.
I think you should look into plumbing, electrical, fire protection or fire alarm drafting. These are relatively simple tasks for a drafts person - of course the engineers are doing real work - but the drafting is fairly simple. More importantly for you, you can do it without visiting the building - or at least it's less likely.
If you are asking about "what software should I learn?" then I'd say first learn AutoCAD.
The current version of AutoCAD is more advanced, but you can learn - for free - on a clone of an older version of ACAD - try DraftSight or NanoCAD. These are knockoffs of ACAD 2007(ish) and are free.
Most architects are using REVIT, but that'd be overkill for you right now. It's a 3D BIM system.
Kanuski
Sticking to residential? Try this
www.softplan.com
It's a good 3D software, designed specifically for residential.
I believe it costs around $3K. Worth a try.
Jan 11, 16 11:23 pm ·
·
gruen,
Yeah, I was throwing numbers not what I actually can and have done it in. Just so you know. How much time it takes is a variable, though.
Jan 12, 16 12:03 am ·
·
gruen,
With regard to your response to the OP, I will have one thing to say --- Thank you for one of the most sensible responses from architects on this forum regarding this subject matter than I have read in a long time.
Old dog, new tricks
Non Sequitur,
Dick Balkins, do you really think I will read your wall of text?
YES !!!!
Yes, if you are going to respond. Don't you realize that if you respond to people that you read what they wrote as you would listen to what they say before you respond. There is some basic etiquette. While we all know we have have been falling short of that.
I don't care whether you respond as quickly as you would a short post. I would expect you to have read and understand what I am saying. That way, we can avoid some unneccessary debates caused simply by not reading and just knee jerk reacting to cherry picked sentences without understanding the real point.
no_form,
You don't understand what I said so just shut up and not respond.
I've lived in Portland for four years and not a single thing in that last post is even remotely accurate. I feel pity for people who actually live with that sort of unfounded fear.
tduds:
If there was even ONE real architectural firm to set up in the Astoria area that employs (not just architecture school graduates)
Hell of a qualifier there.
--------------------------------------------------------
Not really tduds. Architecture school graduates isn't necessarily a qualifier. Glorified art school isn't much of a qualifier for the skills needed to produce deliverables that clients wants to pay money for.
Spoken like someone who never went.
tduds,
I've lived in Portland for four years and not a single thing in that last post is even remotely accurate. I feel pity for people who actually live with that sort of unfounded fear.
Lets see...
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2015/10/portland_gang_violence_twenty-.html
http://projects.oregonlive.com/maps/gang-violence/
I was talking about gang violence and thieves and other crap that I wouldn't need. Don't completely confuse the nature of the gang violence being the same as in Los Angeles which I was referring to in the beginning. However, I frankly don't care what the driving force for the gang violence. I really am not into that kind of environment that I would be coming across in living in that environment. As you can see, there is plenty of reason to be concern. Gang shootings for example. Do you think I feel like dodging bullets?
I've lived in Astoria long for 20+ years. I have received news from Portland, Oregon on TV. It doesn't take a slide rule to know that there is plenty of gang violence that goes on. If it didn't exist, it wouldn't be on the news would it?
Frankly, I had close call before. As close a call as a matter of just a difference in timing. Had they chosen to do the drive by shooting just an hour or two earlier, I could have easily been in the midst of the drive by shooting. I do take that kind of crap seriously because innocent people are often the ones that get harmed or killed by this careless wanton act of violence. It is this kind of bullshit I don't get fond of. When I was in 7th grade, I walked down the very street that the drive by shooting occured on that very day. It was just a matter of timing. In that drive by shooting, a fellow 7th grade student was shot and killed. This was just after the first day of class. An innocent life cut short because of a senseless act of violence. I still remember the name of that kid whose's life was cut short.
For me, I care that the place I live doesn't routinely or regularly have senseless acts of gang violence. I understand that no place is absolutely free of such violence or like violence. Where I live, that kind of violence is much rarer. I have yet to see the kind of gang activities that results in activities like drive by shooting aside from an idiot shooting a deer in city limits. While there are gangs that mostly does a little bit of tagging of buildings once in awhile. We don't usually see the kind of violent nonsense of gangs.
Most violent crimes in Astoria are domestic violence and the occassional thieves. We just don't see that kind of activity at all. While Portland maybe tamer place when it comes to gang violence compared to Astoria, Oregon.... I wouldn't say it is true that they are not there or that they are not present doing such. It is clear with evidence that there is gang shooting that goes on. It is documented in Portland. We do not see that kind of stuff in Astoria.
How can the OP spend a good part of the day on a treadmill and sitting at a desk but can't attend classes and could not visit a job site?
I'm not saying Portland is crime-free, I'm saying the conclusions you're drawing from a handful of incidents (especially citing local news, whose job it is to sensationalize the isolated incidents that do occur) are overblown.
Then again, drawing sweeping conclusions from things you have no personal experience in by citing a few cherry picked internet sources is sort of your thing, isn't it?
tduds,
Spoken like someone who never went.
I was rattling your chain but the end result of their work is to be put mildly, is questionable. I have seen work from students even in final terminal studio that would fail structural if it was a real project. Amazing as it may seem, some people just aren't really prepared to engage in the profession, prepare real construction documents, etc. I have seen professional construction documents prepared by competent architects and building designers. If you spend 5 years in college full-time, you really should be already ready to do this even for small structures like houses, town halls and duplex and small commercial.
In 5 years of experience, a building designer should be able to prepare floor plans for a 2-3 story house, 4 elevations and wall sections in 3 days (8 hour days) from a set of specifications. While it isn't necessarily really designing as you can design, you should be able to achieve that in 24 hours of work. With a thoughtful design, and a complete CD set, in 10 days. When you have two terms (or 22+ weeks to do it), you should have the time to design and prepare complete presentation and a complete CD set or at least a DD level set. The rendering should be able to encompass all that.
That's just an honest point of view about some of the work I have seen. There are others that have done better.
tduds,
Do you really think I am going to go out of my way to personally experience gang violence? Are you a f---ing idiot?
I'm saying you could live in central Portland and still have to deliberately go out of your way to personally experience gang violence.
tdud, I surely hope you don't mean that you are suggesting that I put myself in harms way of gang violence to personally experience gang violence in Portland.
You say that I would have to go out of my way. Tell that to the victims of the crimes. Are you sure they all just go out of their way to experience gang shootings?
While media sensationalize as they do, the fact is they get the data from where? The Police department. Public Information requests. Do you think that Frankie Romero gone out of his way to personally experience being shot by a gang's drive by shooting?
No I'm saying your fears of gang violence are overblown and they're getting in the way of your ability to experience the world, which is sad. I'm sad for you.
This thread has strayed way off topic. I'm done.
Kanuski:
Generally speaking, drawing construction plans is a cheap and thankless job. Even more so with residential construction. If you actually did renovations and such, that would have been a good start for you to go trade and start building with your own hands, so to speak, thus earning real money. However, that's not possible from what I gather.
Blueprint drafting is not the same as being a 'designer'. Should you aim to become a designer, you must check exactly under what conditions can you work as one.
From what I remember, the design and general review of residential buildings under 500 (or 600?) m2 or under 3 storeys, can be legally performed by non-architects, according to some building codes. However, it's very likely that, as a designer, you must have some certifications, and be at least registered with the local authorities. Check with the municipality in your area, and check the building code also in your area, to find out exactly what is the legal framework. Many if not most homes fall within that category, so there is a market for 'designers'.
If you have connections and a decent network, you might give it a try at home design. Having said that, a designer must do a whole lot more that drafting blueprints, so if mobility is an issue, it may not be a realistic outcome.
If you truly are stuck in front of a computer, then I suggest you also look at venues other than residential drafting. Google 'best jobs done from a laptop" for instance. Such jobs do not necessarily have to be IT or CS related.
Frankie Romero... who I am talking about.
http://articles.latimes.com/1993-09-10/local/me-33693_1_frank-romero
To be honest with you, tduds, while that maybe the case for some but not always the case.We diverted talking about that too much anyway.
There are reasons people do not want to spend their lives living in big cities. Why should being forced to live in a big city be a requirement to becoming licensed.
I'm not saying visiting Portland. I done that a numerous times over the years. Portland isn't exactly where I want to live my life. Experience this world....LOL.... experience the world shoved up your rear ass?.... that is one experience I have the pleasure of never having experienced and be inclined to not experience.
@Non Sequitur
"I guess anyone can provide design services"
True, when one looks at the state of most suburbs. As JH Kunstler said - "places not worth caring about".
AdrianFGA,
Thanks for bringing that point across. I agree, there are multiple jobs that doesn't isn't necessarily IT or CS related.
I suggested for example video games and software development. While video games maybe seen as a waste of time for some but the purpose of video games is entertainment as is movies. It's an avenue for creativity while also being an avenue where a person can make serious money if they are good. When I say serious money, I am talking big capital and big money and various levels in between making a few bucks to making Billions of dollars a year.
There are many roles that one can have in the field of video game development or broader software development. Video games are big business and lots of capital opportunity. Software development as well. There is a lot of financial opportunity if you take the steps like various forms of crowdfunding, venture capitalism (something you will have near zero chance of ever seeing in the architecture field).
I agree that there are other occupations for working from home.
You need help Richard. You are letting a 23 year old incident scare you out of having a life.
JBeaumont,
You can have a life anywhere. Living in a big city isn't the only place to have a life.
I think you are not really talking about having a life so much as career.
I raised that point as to understand that I do care about the place being reasonably safe. If we are talking about life and living in a place then we talking talking about life time committment to live at the place. If we are talking living in Portland, are we talking about 1 year, 2 year or 30 years or 50 years. What is the duration of commitment to the place.
I'm not into moving place to place because why own a home if you move and move and move every few years or so. It is environmentally unsustainable to design houses if that is what our culture is becoming a culture of gypsies.
To the OP: I can't read everyone's responses here. It has gone off the rails.
As an architect, I'm not threatened by folks who do drafting of residential structures. I think they come in many categories - some are completely incompetent (I make some money off these projects) and some know what they are doing.
There is a world of difference between what it appears to take to draw a building and what it actually takes. Most architects learn a bit in school but most on the job. For me - about 20 years of experience - I feel I'm still learning - and I'm OK with that.
Learning the software is part of it, but it's just a tool. Learning WHAT to draw is more important.
I understand why you've decided this might be a good option. My biggest concern (beyond the "can you actually learn to draw the right stuff" question) is that - in my experience - one needs to visit the buildings / job sites before you can draw. Many of my projects - and I suspect many of my colleagues would agree - are renovations of, or additions to - existing buildings. You cannot work on these until you visit, measure and see what the existing conditions are.
You might be able to do contract drafting for an architect or builder - and work only on new buildings or ?? In this case, I'd recommend you look into engineering drafting - there are MANY fields that are less grounded in the need to visit the buildings.
In construction, this could include plumbing, electrical, HVAC, fire protection, fire alarm systems. In other engineering fields, I'm afraid I'm not much use - I don't know what those guys do.
I think you should look into plumbing, electrical, fire protection or fire alarm drafting. These are relatively simple tasks for a drafts person - of course the engineers are doing real work - but the drafting is fairly simple. More importantly for you, you can do it without visiting the building - or at least it's less likely.
If you are asking about "what software should I learn?" then I'd say first learn AutoCAD.
The current version of AutoCAD is more advanced, but you can learn - for free - on a clone of an older version of ACAD - try DraftSight or NanoCAD. These are knockoffs of ACAD 2007(ish) and are free.
Most architects are using REVIT, but that'd be overkill for you right now. It's a 3D BIM system.
PS: Rick - you are slow. I can kick the drawings out faster than that. And I'm slow.
Kanuski Sticking to residential? Try this www.softplan.com It's a good 3D software, designed specifically for residential. I believe it costs around $3K. Worth a try.
gruen,
Yeah, I was throwing numbers not what I actually can and have done it in. Just so you know. How much time it takes is a variable, though.
gruen,
With regard to your response to the OP, I will have one thing to say --- Thank you for one of the most sensible responses from architects on this forum regarding this subject matter than I have read in a long time.
... that's my baby reading this conversation... LOL
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