Background: The FAA has new regulations already for small UAS (commonly called these days as drones but not just drones but any radio controlled aircraft including blimps), although currently the new registration program is for recreational/hobby (non-commercial or governmental) use. New regulations in the registration for commercial are pending. I am beginning to implement a new branch into my business structure under a sort of restructured business enterprise involving different types of business activities from building design & related activities such as historic preservation consultant and other services, software/video game development, and now including a new branch involving the use of small UAS. While this branch is not 'live' yet pending all the regulatory procedures. There is currently a huge range of possible activities being implemented with small UAS and other UAS. Some of those activities are implemented in video games use as well as architecture in forms of aerial photography and other kinds of data collection.
How does architects and other design professionals see the use of UAS or drones, as is popularly called these days, in the practice of their respective professions? This isn't a discussion about the laws but the application of drones in this profession.
not strictly architectural, but developers building high rise residential towers have commissioned drone videos and photos to simulate views from the interior to use in marketing and sales materials. showing customers the real view expected from a unit definitely helps them decide whether they are interested to buy.
Balkins you tool. We were having this discussion in another thread and all you wanted to do was talk about FAA regulations. Get a job!
Dec 25, 15 10:06 pm ·
·
midlander,
I encourage others (except no_form) to speak on this topic, but perfectly fine. I am not out to criticize the application of drone for architecture and related subjects. I'm currently studying some options in the world of 3d scanning from photos captured by drones. Keeping in mind that buildings even small ones can be tricky. While indoor application is interesting to do, exterior is perfect applications.
Just for starter, I'm looking at a few tools that assists in synthesizing 3d models from photographs made. While 3d scale reference can be used to scale everything in the 3d model, it can be incredible.
I'm currently looking at some good free software for this. I rather start with good free software than paying $2000+ per software to do the same thing. I'm sure, I can upgrade to paid commercial software at some point after that. Although, I could write my own software, it would take too damn long when there are already software for this.
I am currently looking at Insight3d and a few others.
You can't write software for a drone. You can't even write a resume. Get a job. Did mommy and daddy give you a quad copter
for Christmas? Is that why you have the sudden interest?
I like the secret archinect threads, that Rikki doesn't know how to access, and where no one talks about BALLkins.
Dec 25, 15 10:19 pm ·
·
no_form,
Will you please not post in this thread if you don't have anything really meaningful to say to the topic?
First: Just because I have chosen and refuse to give kjdt or others a resume, doesn't mean I can't write a resume.
Second: I don't think you have anything to say in relation to this topic other than a 'repetition' of "Get a job". After, what is, 50....60...70..100 or whatever times you had been repeating over and over and over is just annoying.
Third: Considering the application of UAV in video game design and some other applications, there is a lot of aerial data collection opportunities. I have already been resisting commercial use at this time, for reasons I have already mentioned. This particular thread is not about the FAA licensing and all the regulatory stuff. I have had quadcopters and other crafts that falls under the small UAS category for quite some time. With commercial registration under new Section 48 rules for small UAS coming about in late March or into April of 2016. I have already took care of the current hobby/recreation level registration a couple days ago. The topic is timely if you think about it. I still am not sure how all the rules in the commercial side under section 48 will pencil out. I am not looking to discuss the legal stuff as it is moot because no one knows what will exactly happen in the world of FAA. I think at the least, some level of discussion of the topic is of interest not just to me but others. I raise this thread for discussing this. I am not looking at or carrying about whether you are doing the stuff legally or not or your compliance matters with FAA. I don't give a shit. I am looking at how you foresee the use of drones in your practice. While it is informing me or provides ideas how it can be useful to me in building design and related services. It maybe well beyond the scope of this topic or audience about application in software/video game development but I do have some ideas for the application in some form of non-gaming application that I am not discussing openly.
At the beginning of this response, I have politely asked you to please not post in this thread if you aren't going to participate to the topic with something meaningful to the topic. No more posts demanding me to "Go get a job." I am not going to do it because you nag at me.
Don't fall for his narcissism. He's a troll. Balkins just can't handle anyone trolling him back. And now he's trying to drum up sympathy. Fuck you Balkins. Get a job.
We got a drone for out office few weeks back, just to take cool pictures and send it to clients and that's about it. Oh and I crashed it two days into having it and now we have it disassembled trying to figure out what happened.
Wasting too much time.... Moving on let's get buildings designed and built.... That is what our clients care about and not some cool ass drone view!
i think it depends on who your client is, but cool drone pictures are cool, and people like cool stuff. so if your client is involved in leasing and development, they can be used for marketing, or construction progress videos can be marketed towards community building type stuff.
i'm not sure about using a drone for laser scanning and measuring. let us know if this ever gets off the ground RB.
At this time, I am looking at photo based methods for forming 3d models versus laser based scanning & measuring due to laser scanning & measuring equipment bulk weight and size maybe a bit high for what I want to use besides price.
I definitely see where the cool drone pictures are useful for some clients. I can see it used in marketing, construction progress videos, etc.
Using the same technology, I can see doubling that for photo based 3d modeling. I know that currently, I am looking at photo based methods. While I can take some photos close to grown by hand, a drone equipped with a camera can captured photos in spots that would be inconvenient to get to. I may need to use a few measured control reference for size and scaling the 3d model with real scale dimensions. Some aspects of this, I'll be doing... now. To iron out the process method with the tool chain before deploying the drone commercially.
autodesk made some software that's supposed build a 3d model based on pictures didn't they? i messed with it for about a day but couldn't get it to do much. if it worked, then using a drone to take pictures of the top of a building could be useful. i don't see the market for that though.
i'm less interested in the process and more interested in having this venture become more successful than your other attempts. i look forward to your posts when you can tell us you honestly set up a successful, profitable business using this technology.
Dec 26, 15 4:59 pm ·
·
Curtkram,
If I recall correctly, the program was called ImageModeler. What they repackage, evolved and call it now, is well... have to look.
Therefore, I am looking at various ideas on the technology. As it is an emerging market, it will take some time discovering what works and doesn't work.
Although when connected with building design work, 3d models is something I would explore but by far it isn't the only application. I'll be exploring its application into software/video game use as well.
Regardless, it is something that would be implemented in baby steps. Commercial application of drones is an emerging field, no one really knows how the market will evolve.
While I can find uses for myself in small ways at the least. It's a tool. Otherwise, it's just fun.
now if only balkins had actual clients and actually designed buildings...if only he could find the time in between all the nothing he does. not to mention people are already using drones to map and 3d model. it's called google earth. photogrammetry.
again-go back to using quad copters to actual fabricate and build. that's something that is a game changer.
ps. get a job. but enjoy your christmas present balkins.
I have heard of a friend who works for the physical plant of a university, they have a drone and it has a programmed flight path they send it up after a storm to check on some of the roofs that sometimes have ponding when the drains get blocked by debris. Saves a lot of time and is safer then sending people up on roofs if they don't need to. Sometimes it bangs into something and has to get picked up but it is relatively light and doesn't move to fast. takes about an hour to do the rounds on the campus.
At Autodesk University there were about 10 classes on UAV/Drones this year. Last year they had two. It's becoming more and more common on job sites and once the new regulations come out in a few months it will become even more common place. The US laws will catch up to the rest of the world. I've been flying in Singapore for my project the last few months. Their process, requires far more documentation of flight prep and post-flight data, but it's actually reasonable and relevant unlike the FAA guidelines.
We had been using drones prior to the pilot license requirement but have scaled back this year. Photogrammetry, LiDar, autonomous fight systems with object avoidance are all getting better and cheaper. In the next 3-5 years every job site will have one.
Is it just me or do others see this drone craze as more of a novelty thing? I really cant see how matching a drones flight path with a computerized model of a building or a structure is much more beneficial than doing a fly by in the computer. I think that it will have much more impact on surveying, advertising, etc.... but I really don't see architects needing the use of drones to convey a thought or project, especially hum-drum architecture (98% of what all construction is).
I got a drone video from an asphalt company that was laying asphalt for a project i had some peripheral involvement in once. it's probably some relatively wealthy suburban guy who owns an asphalt company and has a new toy to play with, but it also seemed like the asphalt became a bigger part of the project than the building due to the additional and more detailed documentation, and that the asphalt company was ahead of the technology curve compared to the architect, contractor, etc.
We are hoping to use them in the oil industry to send out to search for issues in pipes, columns etc as it is obviously safer than sending someone out there!
We've mostly used ours for visualization like the views from a future floor, etc. We also are getting ready to use it to get some views of historic architectural features that otherwise would require a lift or scaffolding.
I could see it being used in construction administration to assist in building shell observations, particularly on taller buildings and being able to see the tops of things and the connections exposed to rain.
Jan 5, 16 1:54 pm ·
·
It can also be a support tool for use in 'architectural photogrammetry'-based (image-based) modeling which can be useful in preparing As-Is (or As-built) set of drawings of existing buildings or historic buildings and further implemented into drawings of additions and other such alterations. In addition, it can be part o supplementing image data of a site.
..Rick "Photogrammetry modelling of as built" would fall under surveying.. I do photogrammetry work.
Jan 6, 16 3:12 am ·
·
archiwutm8,
This isn't the UK. There are exemptions and you don't need to be a land surveyor to produce HABS drawings or to get data about the building. Even in Oregon where there is a licensed photogrammetrist license, there is limitations. The premise of the photogrammetrist discipline under OSBEELS is about land surveying. Photogrammetry used for mapping and legal boundary.
(7) “Photogrammetric mapping” means an evaluating and measuring of land that is limited to the determination of the topography, area, contours and location of planimetric features, by using photogrammetric methods or similar remote sensing technology, including but not limited to using existing ground control points incidental to the photogrammetric or remote sensing mapping process.
(8) “Photogrammetrist” means an individual registered with the board and holding a valid certificate to practice photogrammetric mapping.
and
.....
Jan 6, 16 6:16 pm ·
·
New amendment in ORS 672
(c) Photogrammetric mapping project work, which may include, but need not be limited to, work regarding the extent of coverage, location of ground control, aerial photography or similarly remotely sensed data, the measurement of features detected by remote sensing equipment, quality control for compliance with standards and specifications and the presentation of findings.
Jan 6, 16 6:23 pm ·
·
It's besides the point. However, photogrammetrists are not used for this because their role begins and end inside scope of what is called practice of land surveying. Land surveyors aren't hired or commissioned unless people want definitive property boundary surveys or topographical surveys, when it comes to projects involving exempt buildings.
If I took a photo and made measurements off of a photo, it is technically photogrammetry but no one hires one to do it. That's because photogrammetrists are too expensive and for the most part, they have to use expensive helicopter or airplane flights.
Oh wait, it's exempt buildings/projects not regulated by the architect act of 671 and the Engineering & Land Surveying / Photogrammetry act of ORS 672.
What? are you on about? Photogrammetry models fall within "Surveying", it doesn't have to do anything with the UK or anything. Why would you need a photogrammetry license? To me anything that has to do with gathering information about as-built or land is surveying.
And photogrammetrist is a word? ....we just call ourselves modellers or technicians mate.
Jan 7, 16 3:33 am ·
·
Okay. Okay.
I might have responded to you too harshly and interpreted what you meant in a manner incorrectly to what you intended. Fair enough.
It would certainly be an As-Built Survey or Building Survey if it has to do with buildings.
Whether I need to be licensed as a "Registered Professional Photogrammetrist" (RPP) or "Professional Land Surveyor" (PLS) would not necessarily be required. I'm not convinced that I necessarily need such a license when using such methods for preparation of As-Built Survey / Building Surveys as a building survey consultant / building designer / historic preservation consultant.
If we take ORS 672.060 exemption, it doesn't matter as long as it is incidental to building design services. One way or another, I have to obtain measurements of existing buildings and people don't hire PLS/RPPs for measuring houses. They would use the services for property boundary.
I brought it up as it is a fair application of drones. For example, I can get the drone up in the air to capture photographs from all the necessary angles that would be needed for good quality model outcome results. A drone is a tool for positioning the camera or any remote sensing equipment (well.... aside from weight related issues) into positions. While a 3d scanner is good for alot of things, they aren't light and would be difficult to get positioned in the right locations. They would be similarly cumbersome as my theodolite. They would weigh about the same and comparably bulky.
A drone application would be able to move a rather inexpensive but still decent quality digital camera to positions where it would be either cumbersome if not dangerous for me to do otherwise.
I have seen good results achieved just from some search results as I research the topic and gain familiarity of the theories and practical of image based modeling / architectural photogrammetry.
Since you do photogrammetry work, I'll probably discuss more privately with you as you are familiar with the topic if you don't mind.
REGARDING the "Photogrammetrist" title:
Photogrammetrist... hmmm... ironically a legally defined title of some sort in Oregon. Don't ask me, I didn't invent the term. I don't know what pot smoking fascist hippy (oxymoron as it may sound) that came up with it.
You have to account for the model accuracy if you are modelling for technical work, the camera will have a lot to do with it and how you start photographing, my colleagues are way more versed than I am in photogrammetry however I can answer some questions. traditionally with a laser scanner we tell clients that the scan will be 4mm-10mm off and the model closest you can get will be 3mm maximum which is still hard to achieve however usually 10mm so overall you are getting 20mm accuracy.
When it comes to cameras you have a range of variables that will affect the model coming out and it will depend on the methodology and software you are using, drones aren't exactly "inexpensive" if you are doing it properly and want high accuracy rigs can cost anywhere from £1-2k to 100k+, I've used a rig that had a 60k drone and a RED camera that was another 100K.
In terms of positioning, the difficulty depends on the environment you are dealing with and you can fly a FARO scanner on drones now and there are loads of progress in it, particularly SABRE drones.
so is the idea that you're trying to find a profession that required a license, then you're going to try to practice it without a license? wouldn't it be a lot easier to learn c++ and get a job coding somewhere?
Rick when you started this thread you said it was for architects and others to discuss the applications to their respective professions - and not a discussion about laws. So when archiwutm8 discussed how this relates to his/her profession, why did you respond with reams of copy-paste of the laws of Oregon?
As for "one way or another, I have to obtain measurements of existing buildings" - it seems like you're choosing the most overkill, complicated methods possible when the buildings that you work on are so small and straightforward. You're absolutely right that people don't hire surveyors or photogrammetrists to get field measurements of their single family houses. That's because they can pay for somebody who knows how to use a tape measure properly to measure the house in a couple hours tops, with no need for any special equipment, training, software, etc. For purposes of additions or renovations to single family homes, or anything else of the scale to be an exempt building in Oregon, drones and surveying equipment are unnecessary toys that aren't going to make the job faster or less expensive, and on that type of project there's no need for higher accuracy than can be achieved with much faster, less complicated methods.
Rick has rejected the idea of doing existing measurements of houses with a tape measure before, on the basis that it can't give him his desired margin of error of less than 1/16" - that was his reasoning for field measuring single family homes with surveying equipment, even though it seems to take him at least 10 times as long as it would by most architect's typical methods. So if, as archiwutm8 stated, the tolerance for photogrammetry is 10-20mm (>3/8" to >3/4") even with very expensive equipment, then it won't work for Rick's stated purposes, and in fact a tape measure would be more accurate.
Drones? ( Umanned Aerial Systems ) How do vision their use in Architecture?
Background: The FAA has new regulations already for small UAS (commonly called these days as drones but not just drones but any radio controlled aircraft including blimps), although currently the new registration program is for recreational/hobby (non-commercial or governmental) use. New regulations in the registration for commercial are pending. I am beginning to implement a new branch into my business structure under a sort of restructured business enterprise involving different types of business activities from building design & related activities such as historic preservation consultant and other services, software/video game development, and now including a new branch involving the use of small UAS. While this branch is not 'live' yet pending all the regulatory procedures. There is currently a huge range of possible activities being implemented with small UAS and other UAS. Some of those activities are implemented in video games use as well as architecture in forms of aerial photography and other kinds of data collection.
How does architects and other design professionals see the use of UAS or drones, as is popularly called these days, in the practice of their respective professions? This isn't a discussion about the laws but the application of drones in this profession.
not strictly architectural, but developers building high rise residential towers have commissioned drone videos and photos to simulate views from the interior to use in marketing and sales materials. showing customers the real view expected from a unit definitely helps them decide whether they are interested to buy.
midlander,
I encourage others (except no_form) to speak on this topic, but perfectly fine. I am not out to criticize the application of drone for architecture and related subjects. I'm currently studying some options in the world of 3d scanning from photos captured by drones. Keeping in mind that buildings even small ones can be tricky. While indoor application is interesting to do, exterior is perfect applications.
Just for starter, I'm looking at a few tools that assists in synthesizing 3d models from photographs made. While 3d scale reference can be used to scale everything in the 3d model, it can be incredible.
I'm currently looking at some good free software for this. I rather start with good free software than paying $2000+ per software to do the same thing. I'm sure, I can upgrade to paid commercial software at some point after that. Although, I could write my own software, it would take too damn long when there are already software for this.
I am currently looking at Insight3d and a few others.
for Christmas? Is that why you have the sudden interest?
Get a job.
I like the secret archinect threads, that Rikki doesn't know how to access, and where no one talks about BALLkins.
no_form,
Will you please not post in this thread if you don't have anything really meaningful to say to the topic?
First: Just because I have chosen and refuse to give kjdt or others a resume, doesn't mean I can't write a resume.
Second: I don't think you have anything to say in relation to this topic other than a 'repetition' of "Get a job". After, what is, 50....60...70..100 or whatever times you had been repeating over and over and over is just annoying.
Third: Considering the application of UAV in video game design and some other applications, there is a lot of aerial data collection opportunities. I have already been resisting commercial use at this time, for reasons I have already mentioned. This particular thread is not about the FAA licensing and all the regulatory stuff. I have had quadcopters and other crafts that falls under the small UAS category for quite some time. With commercial registration under new Section 48 rules for small UAS coming about in late March or into April of 2016. I have already took care of the current hobby/recreation level registration a couple days ago. The topic is timely if you think about it. I still am not sure how all the rules in the commercial side under section 48 will pencil out. I am not looking to discuss the legal stuff as it is moot because no one knows what will exactly happen in the world of FAA. I think at the least, some level of discussion of the topic is of interest not just to me but others. I raise this thread for discussing this. I am not looking at or carrying about whether you are doing the stuff legally or not or your compliance matters with FAA. I don't give a shit. I am looking at how you foresee the use of drones in your practice. While it is informing me or provides ideas how it can be useful to me in building design and related services. It maybe well beyond the scope of this topic or audience about application in software/video game development but I do have some ideas for the application in some form of non-gaming application that I am not discussing openly.
At the beginning of this response, I have politely asked you to please not post in this thread if you aren't going to participate to the topic with something meaningful to the topic. No more posts demanding me to "Go get a job." I am not going to do it because you nag at me.
Other people, please continue on the discussion based on the original post and midlander's comment.
no form, you are a bully. Richard started this thread.
Its one thing to joke around but your posts are just mean spirited.
We got a drone for out office few weeks back, just to take cool pictures and send it to clients and that's about it. Oh and I crashed it two days into having it and now we have it disassembled trying to figure out what happened.
Wasting too much time.... Moving on let's get buildings designed and built.... That is what our clients care about and not some cool ass drone view!i think it depends on who your client is, but cool drone pictures are cool, and people like cool stuff. so if your client is involved in leasing and development, they can be used for marketing, or construction progress videos can be marketed towards community building type stuff.
i'm not sure about using a drone for laser scanning and measuring. let us know if this ever gets off the ground RB.
there is this 1 million $ drone award in the UAE...
https://www.dronesforgood.ae/award
akhh .. why did I have to become an architect!!!
curtkram,
At this time, I am looking at photo based methods for forming 3d models versus laser based scanning & measuring due to laser scanning & measuring equipment bulk weight and size maybe a bit high for what I want to use besides price.
I definitely see where the cool drone pictures are useful for some clients. I can see it used in marketing, construction progress videos, etc.
Using the same technology, I can see doubling that for photo based 3d modeling. I know that currently, I am looking at photo based methods. While I can take some photos close to grown by hand, a drone equipped with a camera can captured photos in spots that would be inconvenient to get to. I may need to use a few measured control reference for size and scaling the 3d model with real scale dimensions. Some aspects of this, I'll be doing... now. To iron out the process method with the tool chain before deploying the drone commercially.
Get a job.
autodesk made some software that's supposed build a 3d model based on pictures didn't they? i messed with it for about a day but couldn't get it to do much. if it worked, then using a drone to take pictures of the top of a building could be useful. i don't see the market for that though.
i'm less interested in the process and more interested in having this venture become more successful than your other attempts. i look forward to your posts when you can tell us you honestly set up a successful, profitable business using this technology.
Curtkram,
If I recall correctly, the program was called ImageModeler. What they repackage, evolved and call it now, is well... have to look.
Therefore, I am looking at various ideas on the technology. As it is an emerging market, it will take some time discovering what works and doesn't work.
Although when connected with building design work, 3d models is something I would explore but by far it isn't the only application. I'll be exploring its application into software/video game use as well.
Regardless, it is something that would be implemented in baby steps. Commercial application of drones is an emerging field, no one really knows how the market will evolve.
While I can find uses for myself in small ways at the least. It's a tool. Otherwise, it's just fun.
Placing 3D model over video of site for client meetings; using same path fly-overs during CA.
now if only balkins had actual clients and actually designed buildings...if only he could find the time in between all the nothing he does. not to mention people are already using drones to map and 3d model. it's called google earth. photogrammetry.
again-go back to using quad copters to actual fabricate and build. that's something that is a game changer.
ps. get a job. but enjoy your christmas present balkins.
Placing 3D model over video of site for client meetings; using same path fly-overs during CA.
Spine 3D did animation using helicopter flyover about 10-15 years ago. So now you can do this on a budget.
As a job skill, you can get about $40k for doing 40 floors of still frames in NYC for one future building.
Holy shit, what the hell was that?!
I have heard of a friend who works for the physical plant of a university, they have a drone and it has a programmed flight path they send it up after a storm to check on some of the roofs that sometimes have ponding when the drains get blocked by debris. Saves a lot of time and is safer then sending people up on roofs if they don't need to. Sometimes it bangs into something and has to get picked up but it is relatively light and doesn't move to fast. takes about an hour to do the rounds on the campus.
At Autodesk University there were about 10 classes on UAV/Drones this year. Last year they had two. It's becoming more and more common on job sites and once the new regulations come out in a few months it will become even more common place. The US laws will catch up to the rest of the world. I've been flying in Singapore for my project the last few months. Their process, requires far more documentation of flight prep and post-flight data, but it's actually reasonable and relevant unlike the FAA guidelines.
We had been using drones prior to the pilot license requirement but have scaled back this year. Photogrammetry, LiDar, autonomous fight systems with object avoidance are all getting better and cheaper. In the next 3-5 years every job site will have one.
Is it just me or do others see this drone craze as more of a novelty thing? I really cant see how matching a drones flight path with a computerized model of a building or a structure is much more beneficial than doing a fly by in the computer. I think that it will have much more impact on surveying, advertising, etc.... but I really don't see architects needing the use of drones to convey a thought or project, especially hum-drum architecture (98% of what all construction is).
I got a drone video from an asphalt company that was laying asphalt for a project i had some peripheral involvement in once. it's probably some relatively wealthy suburban guy who owns an asphalt company and has a new toy to play with, but it also seemed like the asphalt became a bigger part of the project than the building due to the additional and more detailed documentation, and that the asphalt company was ahead of the technology curve compared to the architect, contractor, etc.
https://www.skycatch.com/
we had a flight to show to a planning commission for a zoning variance in a remote street up a mountain, saves a lot of guessing and fact finding
perhaps
3d reconstruction for mapping, survey
uav photogrammetry to monitor building process or for built review.
more a support tool, can't think of anything design-wise.
We are hoping to use them in the oil industry to send out to search for issues in pipes, columns etc as it is obviously safer than sending someone out there!
Just need a good pilot with a steady hand
Architects only need it when they need other professions involvement, by themselves there is no need.
EG.
Surveying
Marketing
Visualisation
We've mostly used ours for visualization like the views from a future floor, etc. We also are getting ready to use it to get some views of historic architectural features that otherwise would require a lift or scaffolding.
I could see it being used in construction administration to assist in building shell observations, particularly on taller buildings and being able to see the tops of things and the connections exposed to rain.
It can also be a support tool for use in 'architectural photogrammetry'-based (image-based) modeling which can be useful in preparing As-Is (or As-built) set of drawings of existing buildings or historic buildings and further implemented into drawings of additions and other such alterations. In addition, it can be part o supplementing image data of a site.
..Rick "Photogrammetry modelling of as built" would fall under surveying.. I do photogrammetry work.
archiwutm8,
This isn't the UK. There are exemptions and you don't need to be a land surveyor to produce HABS drawings or to get data about the building. Even in Oregon where there is a licensed photogrammetrist license, there is limitations. The premise of the photogrammetrist discipline under OSBEELS is about land surveying. Photogrammetry used for mapping and legal boundary.
(7) “Photogrammetric mapping” means an evaluating and measuring of land that is limited to the determination of the topography, area, contours and location of planimetric features, by using photogrammetric methods or similar remote sensing technology, including but not limited to using existing ground control points incidental to the photogrammetric or remote sensing mapping process.
(8) “Photogrammetrist” means an individual registered with the board and holding a valid certificate to practice photogrammetric mapping.
and
.....
New amendment in ORS 672
(c) Photogrammetric mapping project work, which may include, but need not be limited to, work regarding the extent of coverage, location of ground control, aerial photography or similarly remotely sensed data, the measurement of features detected by remote sensing equipment, quality control for compliance with standards and specifications and the presentation of findings.
It's besides the point. However, photogrammetrists are not used for this because their role begins and end inside scope of what is called practice of land surveying. Land surveyors aren't hired or commissioned unless people want definitive property boundary surveys or topographical surveys, when it comes to projects involving exempt buildings.
If I took a photo and made measurements off of a photo, it is technically photogrammetry but no one hires one to do it. That's because photogrammetrists are too expensive and for the most part, they have to use expensive helicopter or airplane flights.
Oh wait, it's exempt buildings/projects not regulated by the architect act of 671 and the Engineering & Land Surveying / Photogrammetry act of ORS 672.
What? are you on about? Photogrammetry models fall within "Surveying", it doesn't have to do anything with the UK or anything. Why would you need a photogrammetry license? To me anything that has to do with gathering information about as-built or land is surveying.
And photogrammetrist is a word? ....we just call ourselves modellers or technicians mate.
Okay. Okay.
I might have responded to you too harshly and interpreted what you meant in a manner incorrectly to what you intended. Fair enough.
It would certainly be an As-Built Survey or Building Survey if it has to do with buildings.
Whether I need to be licensed as a "Registered Professional Photogrammetrist" (RPP) or "Professional Land Surveyor" (PLS) would not necessarily be required. I'm not convinced that I necessarily need such a license when using such methods for preparation of As-Built Survey / Building Surveys as a building survey consultant / building designer / historic preservation consultant.
If we take ORS 672.060 exemption, it doesn't matter as long as it is incidental to building design services. One way or another, I have to obtain measurements of existing buildings and people don't hire PLS/RPPs for measuring houses. They would use the services for property boundary.
I brought it up as it is a fair application of drones. For example, I can get the drone up in the air to capture photographs from all the necessary angles that would be needed for good quality model outcome results. A drone is a tool for positioning the camera or any remote sensing equipment (well.... aside from weight related issues) into positions. While a 3d scanner is good for alot of things, they aren't light and would be difficult to get positioned in the right locations. They would be similarly cumbersome as my theodolite. They would weigh about the same and comparably bulky.
A drone application would be able to move a rather inexpensive but still decent quality digital camera to positions where it would be either cumbersome if not dangerous for me to do otherwise.
I have seen good results achieved just from some search results as I research the topic and gain familiarity of the theories and practical of image based modeling / architectural photogrammetry.
Since you do photogrammetry work, I'll probably discuss more privately with you as you are familiar with the topic if you don't mind.
REGARDING the "Photogrammetrist" title:
Photogrammetrist... hmmm... ironically a legally defined title of some sort in Oregon. Don't ask me, I didn't invent the term. I don't know what pot smoking fascist hippy (oxymoron as it may sound) that came up with it.
You have to account for the model accuracy if you are modelling for technical work, the camera will have a lot to do with it and how you start photographing, my colleagues are way more versed than I am in photogrammetry however I can answer some questions. traditionally with a laser scanner we tell clients that the scan will be 4mm-10mm off and the model closest you can get will be 3mm maximum which is still hard to achieve however usually 10mm so overall you are getting 20mm accuracy.
When it comes to cameras you have a range of variables that will affect the model coming out and it will depend on the methodology and software you are using, drones aren't exactly "inexpensive" if you are doing it properly and want high accuracy rigs can cost anywhere from £1-2k to 100k+, I've used a rig that had a 60k drone and a RED camera that was another 100K.
In terms of positioning, the difficulty depends on the environment you are dealing with and you can fly a FARO scanner on drones now and there are loads of progress in it, particularly SABRE drones.
so is the idea that you're trying to find a profession that required a license, then you're going to try to practice it without a license? wouldn't it be a lot easier to learn c++ and get a job coding somewhere?
Rick when you started this thread you said it was for architects and others to discuss the applications to their respective professions - and not a discussion about laws. So when archiwutm8 discussed how this relates to his/her profession, why did you respond with reams of copy-paste of the laws of Oregon?
As for "one way or another, I have to obtain measurements of existing buildings" - it seems like you're choosing the most overkill, complicated methods possible when the buildings that you work on are so small and straightforward. You're absolutely right that people don't hire surveyors or photogrammetrists to get field measurements of their single family houses. That's because they can pay for somebody who knows how to use a tape measure properly to measure the house in a couple hours tops, with no need for any special equipment, training, software, etc. For purposes of additions or renovations to single family homes, or anything else of the scale to be an exempt building in Oregon, drones and surveying equipment are unnecessary toys that aren't going to make the job faster or less expensive, and on that type of project there's no need for higher accuracy than can be achieved with much faster, less complicated methods.
I agree with SpontaneousCombustion. Rick, you have no need for drones or photogrammetry.
Get a job.
Seriously no_form, give it a break... You are stalking and posting after he post anything not adding diddly to the conversation.
Rick has rejected the idea of doing existing measurements of houses with a tape measure before, on the basis that it can't give him his desired margin of error of less than 1/16" - that was his reasoning for field measuring single family homes with surveying equipment, even though it seems to take him at least 10 times as long as it would by most architect's typical methods. So if, as archiwutm8 stated, the tolerance for photogrammetry is 10-20mm (>3/8" to >3/4") even with very expensive equipment, then it won't work for Rick's stated purposes, and in fact a tape measure would be more accurate.
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