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Chances in MArch II Admissions 2015 (U.S.)

agent2308

Hi. I just want to get some rough assessment from Harvard GSD, Yale SOA, MIT Arch., & Cornell AAP MArch II / SMArchS students about my profile below. I am going to apply for Fall 2015.

  • Degree Applied: MArch II & SMArchS
  • Undergraduate Degree: B.S. Architecture
  • Type of Student: International
  • GPA: 2.975
  • GRE / TOEFL: exam scheduled on October 2014
  • LOR: from college dean, thesis adviser/ professor, former employer
  • Portfolio: I still have no finished layout since I am still collecting images but I have 3 projects that won some major awards from design competitions (from academic and professional work).
  • Work Experience: 1 year and 9 months in a small, local design firm with one project won 1st prize in a design competition, and handled at least 8 projects more.
  • Resume / CV: 4th place, best undergraduate architecture thesis; won 2 major awards in design competitions; got some honorable distinctions (i.e. semi-finalist, 2012 CTBUH student design competition); registered and licensed architect 

Please be as honest as possible so that if ever I got rejected, I know that I can handle it. haha! Thanks!

 
Sep 25, 14 2:49 pm
accesskb

If you really want an honest opinion from us, you should post your portfolio for us to see... we'll tell you frankly if you have a chance because until then, all your stats really don't mean much.  You could have a 4.0 gpa, get perfect test scores etc etc, but if you have a below par portfolio, you ain't getting in.

Sep 25, 14 10:01 pm  · 
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agent2308

@accesskb

I'm still in the process of layouting my works. What I'm really worried about is my GPA. So I guess it's really on the portfolio. To describe it, I have a balanced number of sketches to digital renderings. I'm not the student who can produce images for eVolo competition. Some of my projects are already built. By the way, should I include snippets of construction drawings in my portfolio?

Thanks,

Sep 25, 14 10:21 pm  · 
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Yes. Unless you have a Frank Lloyd Wright-level masterpiece anthology of a portfolio, you probably won't be admitted to ay traditional on-campus program because every single one of them is "overpopulated" and they all impose policies to not except admission of as many students as possible to only admit what they consider the best up to their self-imposed quota of how many students they decide to admit.

They may not always be all that.

Your GPA is your biggest problem because it is below 3.5 GPA.

It is possible that you maybe admitted but very slim just on the GPA alone.

Sep 25, 14 10:31 pm  · 
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agent2308

@Richard

Yes, my GPA is really below from their standards. But I will take a shot. I know what 'experiences and knowledge' I want to get from those Ivies if ever I'm admitted. Well, probably I should note that for my Statement of Purpose haha! :)

Sep 25, 14 10:47 pm  · 
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bugsmetoo

I don't get it--if you can handle rejection and the process isn't financially draining, just apply and skip the affirmation-seeking. You know you're not the best candidate academically but if what you say holds true, then let the body of work do the speaking. Worst case, you're like thousands who lose the app fee and receive a no. Oh well.

Sep 26, 14 3:49 am  · 
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choresi

I got in with a 3.0 or something like that, can't remember.  Portfolio is king, but it needn't be an anthology masterpiece. 

Consider the source of the advice.  Richard Balkins you never went to grad school correct?  Just college?  - that's not a dig in any way, just a suggestion to take what he says with a grain of salt.  He has no first hand experience in the process or requirements admissions looks for.  I know some with lowish gpa get in and also not that great portfolios (they came from another discipline) but they're essay got them a push to the yes column.  Sometimes they look for variety like trying to invite good guests to a cocktail party.  You never know till you try.

Sep 26, 14 8:26 am  · 
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agent2308

@bugsmetoo There's always no harm in trying. This is me getting our of the comfort zone. Shelling out $400 on admission process is really an investment. 

@choresi Thanks for the inspiration! :) Now I know that I have to focus more on my portfolio and essay. My GRE & TOEFL exams will be in 12 days. Do you have some tips, particularly on the GRE? Thanks!

Sep 26, 14 8:57 am  · 
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placebeyondthesplines

@namr 

Why was your GPA so low? 

What do you plan to do differently in graduate school?

Specifically, what "experiences and knowledge" are you seeking that only these schools can offer?

Why should any admissions committee choose you over someone who performed far better in college?

Sep 26, 14 4:00 pm  · 
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choresi

I should add though, there's generally is a cut off GPA for most applications.  Some just take the last two years some take the whole 4-5year bachelor.  The cut off I found was mostly 3.0, not sure I've heard of people getting in with anything below that or if they make exceptions to the cut off they set on the admissions.

Sep 26, 14 6:29 pm  · 
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choresi

or whatever B- is - not sure what's the numerical equivalent is.  I think that was the cut off, for the majority of the programs.  If you meet that criteria, I don't think they pay that much attention to it past that, especially if you have a good portfolio and after the portfolio, a compelling essay. But if your portfolio is crap, high GPA won't compensate. 

FYI for my essay I never addressed the lowish GPA, just focused on my interests and why I wanted to go to school there, albeit from a fairly unique and different perspective.  Good luck!

Sep 26, 14 11:36 pm  · 
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Yep, they seek Good portfolio, essay AND good GPA that is above 3.0 GPA and more closer to 3.5 GPA. Unless you got a poor GPA that is below 3.0, chances are you won't be admitted UNLESS one has an extraordinary portfolio and then it would be a CONDITIONAL APPROVAL. 

If the official cutoff is a 3.0 GPA being the minimum GPA, it is possible for the OP to be admitted with a GPA as close to a 3.0 GPA but that will need to be met within the first semester or academic year and would need to be maintained if not improved over the remainder of the program.

Namr, do apply if you have above average (the average of those who are admitted) portfolio and outstanding essay.)

You are close enough for admissions if you can whip out a Frank Lloyd Wright quality masterpiece of a portfolio and essay. It needs to be one of such where they really WANT you. That will be a bit hard... I suppose.

I agree with choresi, in that, NEVER explain or complain or otherwise why your GPA is low. Don't dwell on it. Don't draw their attention to your GPA. Like any good marketing, never state your failures or anything that will tell them reasons why NOT to admit you. Don't tell them why you should not be admitted.

Paint the pretty, rosy picture and sell them on all your GREAT qualities. NEVER speak about your bad qualities. In this case, withhold that information. If you are too forthrght and candid about all the weaknesses you have, you would never get admitted let alone ever be hired by anyone unless they explicitly ask you. 

High GPA won't guarantee someone gets in but poor GPA is one reason they will not admit you to the program because they can and will UNLESS your portfolio is exceptionally superior than that of what they accept for admissions and that your essay is also decent and your GRE scores of above minimum.

Good GRE scores will help.

Sep 27, 14 1:23 am  · 
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namr,

Since you are close to a 3.0 GPA, I think if you took another term's worth of courses with term GPA of 3.5 and higher, you would be above 3.0 GPA.

2.975 means you are probably 6 to 12 credits, at a term GPA of 3.5, from reaching a cumulative GPA of 3.05 to 3.15.

Like others said, you need to prepare a rock solid portfolio and a damn good essay because it is highly competitive.

Sep 27, 14 1:28 am  · 
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natematt

Average acceptance rate is around what, 15%? That's not that bad. Lot of applicants are of a high caliber, but if you put up a strong showing you have a pretty reasonable chance.
 

Sep 27, 14 1:42 am  · 
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agent2308

@placebeyondthesplines I think I should not disclose it here. Sorry :)

@Richard thanks for the heads up! I agree that I should not disclose why I got a low GPA. Besides, they will see my transcript (hopefully). Yes, I will prepare a great essay and portfolio. :)

@choresi the portfolio will be a great factor for me to get through. Thanks :)

@natematt I guess my game plan in why I'm studying MArch II and my portfolio should stand out for me to get through. :)

Sep 27, 14 1:53 am  · 
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namr,

It would not be wise to volunteer the information why your GPA is low as it would draw too much attention to that from those viewing your application and they would in turn have your "failures" in mind and then place you on the rejected list. 

It is wise not to disclose this on the forum publically. Maybe in a private message or email of someone here but care should be taken in that who you are talking to is not one of the people who is going to be reviewing the application/portfolio/essays from the college/universities you are planning to attend. Things happen in life.

Sep 27, 14 10:34 am  · 
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placebeyondthesplines

You're asking for an honest assessment, but you're not giving the critical information that would allow anyone to make that assessment.

The point is that in order to succeed (and in order to convince admissions committees that you will be a valuable addition to their community) you'll need to do something substantially different from whatever you did to get such a garbage GPA.

Sep 29, 14 11:46 am  · 
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Carrera

Namr, Just read on the Harvard Grad School Website, quote – “A grade of B- or higher must be achieved in all prerequisite courses.” “All courses?” Not “Average?” – looks like a storm ahead.

The prerequisite courses are:  one semester of college-level calculus, one-semester of college-level physics, and two semesters of art or architectural history (covering the Renaissance to Modern periods). 

Got that?

Sep 29, 14 2:07 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

Namr,

When I was applying to grad schools about 4 years ago there was a reasonable number of people getting into ivies w/ sub 3.0 gpa's and excellent portfolios.  Admissions and review boards know that grade inflation in U.S. schools is rampant and thus are more lenient on foreign grads. 

Your portfolio will be the most important element of your application.  Since you have some professional work and awards it will be important to distinguish your exact role in these projects.  

Sep 30, 14 12:21 pm  · 
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agent2308

@placebeyondthedisciplines: yeah, probably my given info is really useless to determine whether or not I'll have a chance getting in. By the way, 2.975 is not a garbage GPA, in fact I'm proud of it. I got a significant amount of honoraria (money) from various architecture firms in my country when I presented my college portfolio to them. What's left from the money I received will be my payment for the application fees for at least 4 schools. Can you imagine what will my GPA be if I didn't cut my classes to watch a movie at the mall with my friends? :) 

@Carrera: yes I've read that last year, but that is for MArch I. I cannot assume that that applies to all other type of applicants. However, I cannot fully disregard your point that calculus and math is so critical in the architecture graduate admissions; or moreover, in being an architect. After all, we'll be seeing numbers on almost every construction drawing we'll produce. Don't worry, I'll see to it that my portfolio and my SOP will be good enough to let me in. :)

@shuellmi yes, I'll work on my portfolio more. :)

Oct 1, 14 10:52 am  · 
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placebeyondthesplines

If you're proud of a 2.975 GPA, good for you. I'm sure you earned it. But realistically, admissions committees see that number among hundreds of 3.8s and 3.9s and think you must have been a terrible student. Your portfolio might be excellent, and it will need to be to overcome that GPA.

And if you're that cavalier about cutting classes, that's yet another reason you don't deserve to be admitted to another graduate program. Smileyface or not, irresponsibility is not cute or endearing.

I'll be interested to see the list of schools you aren't accepted to, if you have the balls to post it.

Oct 6, 14 6:16 pm  · 
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agent2308

"You don't know what you don't know" -Taylor Swift (lol)

Yes, I'm so proud that I cut classes for movies. I bet you had a boring life back in college. I feel sorry for your kids. Haha! 

Here's a bigger smile for you. =D

Oct 7, 14 6:22 am  · 
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bugsmetoo

Seriously, just drop the jokes. If you didn't catch those crappy movies, this current scenario could have been avoided and you would have less to stress over right now. Hopefully you learned that blowing off school was a bad decision and to not repeat the same poor compromises in graduate school. There's a balance between social and academic life that does not require tanking one's grades or being totally isolated from the outside world.

You might think you're hot stuff winning some competitions and all that but so have others who are vying for a spot in the top programs in any field. Equal or greater experience, equal or greater renown and recognition than you, but definitely greater academic credentials. You want an exception to be made for you but really, you might not be worthy of one.

Oct 7, 14 3:11 pm  · 
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agent2308

Okay thanks for your honest assessment, guys. I'll just hope for the best, and besides there's no harm in trying. My career is just starting, and not being accepted in a prestigious graduate school will definitely be not the end of the road for me. 

By the way, always think positive. 

:)

Oct 8, 14 12:59 am  · 
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midlander

namr (and CHI-GMP, since you were asking recently):

admissions aren't just a one-way evaluation of whether an applicant meets certain criteria. The best schools are looking to get something out of this too, and for them it's not about the money they get from you. Any reputable school is looking for prospective students who have the potential to contribute to that school's current intellectual environment and future reputation.

In a sense, they are looking for their share of the profession's future successes: leaders of notable firms, academics who  and present interesting views, activists who push governments or the public to improve the state of the built world. Having alumni in these sorts of positions enhances the school's prestige, and keeps the next generation of students coming in. Ideally, this process also improves the quality of design and enriches the intellectual depth of the practice.

No one knows which students are going to do this. The schools are aware not every good student is going to go on to do grand or interesting things - they just want to make sure most of the students aren't duds, and that all show some potential to be interesting as architects / academics.

How do they judge who are the students have this potential to be interesting? As others have said, its mostly your portfolio. You design things - so show them that you have some underlying thinking to your design, that you have a way of doing design which few other people could do. Don't simply list what awards you won - show them the design and explain it (graphically unless you are a brilliant writer). They want to see that you're thinking about design and what can be done to improve it.

Alternately, you could show them you're a thinker. Maybe your effort to cut class and watch movies didn't go to waste, if you can write / design something compelling that shows how your understanding of cinema can contribute to the design process. If not, don't mention it -give them some other good reason to overlook your GPA. If they really want you in, they can require you to retake certain credits and achieve the minimum grade before you start (scroll down this FAQ for GSD's policy on missing prerequisites).

The thing is, they're not really looking for any one skill or ability. Broadly what they want is someone who can create a compelling argument for their own approach to design, and yet shows a willingness to share that approach. Because the whole premise of a university is to research and share an understanding of the world, and the students are half of the team doing this.

So, show them you have this potential and you're in. Guaranteed. Anything else is just hoping they have some empty seats open to fill with some not-duds; and based on your GPA you aren't the best choice for filling a seat.

Good luck. BTW to rebut Taylor Swift, there are known unknowns; most of use just ignore them when they defy our wishes. Don't quote her or Rumsfeld in your admissions statement =D

Oct 8, 14 2:47 am  · 
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agent2308

Hi midlander, 

Thank you for your wonderful comment. I really appreciate that you shared with us your thoughts about graduate school admissions; especially for me as an international student who have a little insider knowledge about it. 

Again, thank you!

:)

Oct 8, 14 10:59 pm  · 
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