I am a senior landscape architect level professional/also urban designer/also certified planner and LEED thrown in for good measure. I, like many of us, have experienced massive, hyper-extended unemployment in both the planning and design professions. The signs of improvement in our job market are just not there and will not be for sometime.
I have been offered a 4 month trial test drive with a firm with four offices in SE Asia. They want me to
be stationed in Shanghai. I have a little less than two months to get there. I am mostly free and unencumbered. I have set some things in motion by starting the passport. I have a lot of trepidation about this move, but I really doubht anything on the mainland will come along in time. I have applied for so many positions (public and private) in so many different slants and twists of our related professions, that I have lost count.
I would welcome all opinion, input and critique from any one willing to offer it. All I ask is to please avoid the simplistic such as "It is a job, right ?". I am looking for more frank, candid and helpful viewpoints than that.
I moved to Shanghai last may. It's really not all that complicated to get settled in here. The visa stuff is all fairly simple, despite reports to the contrary. The city is fascinating in terms of architecture and especially urban design.
Quality of life here is about the same if not better than cities I've lived in in the US and Europe, so I really wouldn't worry about culture shock.
Your mileage may vary of course. Choose your employer wisely. Are these international companies or local? What type of projects do they do? Development here is still going strong; there's a lot of work, but not all of it is glamorous, and some of it is ethically questionable.
I'd say definitely take an offer. After four months you'll know if you want to stay.
Right Now if someone offered me a job in South East Asia I would take it. Looking at my dwindling savings, as we muster our way thru this downturn...or upside down downturn.
I don't really understand why you would not take this position. Living in another country is a wonderful experience and will allow you the possibility to visit other parts of the world for vacation/recreation much more easily and affordably than living in the US.
If you are concerned about language barrier/culture shock, etc. I wouldn't be. Shanghai is very western in comparison to many parts of Asia. There are many areas that felt more like being in Europe, especially compared to places like Beijing. It's fairly easy to get around, there's lots of great restaurants, stores, galleries to explore. If you are feeling adventurous, you can go to lots of Chinese places, if you're feeling homesick you can go to Dunkin Donuts and the Gap.
In terms of "it's a job"...it's also an opportunity to learn the design principles and building practices of another culture and give yourself a chance to expand on your own conceptions. Financially, the RMB is gradually increasing in value relative to the dollar, so it could prove to be a win in terms of money as well.
Worst case scenario, you can always come back here...
I'm going to preface this post by saying, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO CHINA.
One concern I would have is talk from "experts" that say China is building its own Real Estate Bubble. These same "experts" debate whether or not China is in for a hard landing. For those that think China will experience a hard landing, they say that growth will decline from 12% to 6%. Which is still insane if you consider that during the RE boom in the US, growth was at 3% or 4%.
If you don't have anything keeping you in the states, the above information probably doesn't matter. If you have a family who is adventurous and willing to go with you, then you might want to do some more research.
I would be interested to hear from others with boots on the ground, what their experience is with China and a potential RE bubble.
landplnr are you going to work for a western firm or a Chinese/Asian one? Because if you're going to go work for a western firm than moving to China is a no-brainer, just do it. Shanghai is an amazing city and working and living there is alot of fun. I did some work there awhile back and was thinking about moving back myself untill I landed a job here.
Also, as an aside, I would get an ETA on when your passport will be processed if possible. If congress can't pass a budget by Friday night than the government will shut down and you'll be stuck in passport limbo, likely even past your two month window and there will be no way to expedite the process. If you can't get your passport the normal way by Friday, I'd go pay an expediter to get one processed immediately, it'll probably cost around $500 though.
passport expediting shouldn't take more than 2 weeks and costs less than $200 (including express shipping in both directions). just did it...and that was my experience. coincidentally, I had to expedite it (a renewal) for a trip to Shanghai. if you've already sent things in though, i doubt you can retroactively put it in the fast track...
otherwise...my 2cents...i agree with the posts above that suggest going for it. best of luck!
Thank you all for your input so far. I have the passport, I am just now waiting on the forms from the Shanghai employer in order to get the work visa (Z). You can get into China on a tourist visa, but you obviously can't work with just that. It is better to have all of this lined up and correct before one heads over there.
As others (not here) have said to me, consider it a 4 month working vacation. I have one other job prospect here on the mainland (SF Bay Area) but it appears frayed and flakey at this stage, and I need to be working again.
It is also worth mentioning that even the most conservative projections for when we will even reach parity with the millions of jobs lost in this country (we never will completely) and get back to pre-recession levels of so-called "healthy" unemployment (under 5%) will take at least three more years.
I appreciate your points and concern. I have not done scholarly research into the potential for a Chinese Housing Bubble, but I have covered a lot of insightful analysis by others, both from a Western and Eastern perspective. My own take is this:
* There is no one clear and certain outcome or trend. There is differing opinion on both sides of the possibility. It is indeed unsettling.
* To give you an idea of how unsettling that is #1: There are hedge funds betting on the bubble bursting in China (sound familiar ? Read the Big Short to see how that played out here) #2 The increase in residential real estate values in many of the major league cities in China has been, to quote you INSANE and will certainly adjust downward, it depends on how hard the fall is. #3 When the China government intervenes to slow the radical increase in residential real estate values, they do it big time and have already applied the brakes. We will see how that plays out.
#4 And this is the scary part....Google "Ghost Cities in China" and look at the Time Magazine pictorial imagery and associated story.
It is indeed frightening. There are multiple new cities and developments that have been financed and built (complete with retail, commercial, cultural and civic) but are NEARLY OR COMPLETELY EMPTY as in no one lives there. This is a jaw dropper..... look it up
Anyway, the firm I am joining appears to have plenty of work (for now) is opening another office in Chengdu and possibly Vietnam next year, so for now, it beats anything here.
The unemployment rate in Oregon is 10.6%, upwards of 12% in Cali and a healthy 8.6% in bustling Washington. Architecture firms in Portland have emptied out by between half and two-thirds. Many small sized firms (whether Landscape Architecture or Architecture have simply vanished).
Right Now- My only real live job option- I need some input from anyone that wants to offer it
I am a senior landscape architect level professional/also urban designer/also certified planner and LEED thrown in for good measure. I, like many of us, have experienced massive, hyper-extended unemployment in both the planning and design professions. The signs of improvement in our job market are just not there and will not be for sometime.
I have been offered a 4 month trial test drive with a firm with four offices in SE Asia. They want me to
be stationed in Shanghai. I have a little less than two months to get there. I am mostly free and unencumbered. I have set some things in motion by starting the passport. I have a lot of trepidation about this move, but I really doubht anything on the mainland will come along in time. I have applied for so many positions (public and private) in so many different slants and twists of our related professions, that I have lost count.
I would welcome all opinion, input and critique from any one willing to offer it. All I ask is to please avoid the simplistic such as "It is a job, right ?". I am looking for more frank, candid and helpful viewpoints than that.
Thank you.
do you have a family or some other conflicting reason why you can't take it? if you don't, you'll kick yourself when its gone. trust me.
ditto what the bossman says. chance to travel and live in new culture and get a job sounds fantastic opportunity to me.
I moved to Shanghai last may. It's really not all that complicated to get settled in here. The visa stuff is all fairly simple, despite reports to the contrary. The city is fascinating in terms of architecture and especially urban design.
Quality of life here is about the same if not better than cities I've lived in in the US and Europe, so I really wouldn't worry about culture shock.
Your mileage may vary of course. Choose your employer wisely. Are these international companies or local? What type of projects do they do? Development here is still going strong; there's a lot of work, but not all of it is glamorous, and some of it is ethically questionable.
I'd say definitely take an offer. After four months you'll know if you want to stay.
Right Now if someone offered me a job in South East Asia I would take it. Looking at my dwindling savings, as we muster our way thru this downturn...or upside down downturn.
dont think you have a choice
do a search for info on working in shanghai in this forum (there's lots of stuff), read it, and then go...
simple as that...
I don't really understand why you would not take this position. Living in another country is a wonderful experience and will allow you the possibility to visit other parts of the world for vacation/recreation much more easily and affordably than living in the US.
If you are concerned about language barrier/culture shock, etc. I wouldn't be. Shanghai is very western in comparison to many parts of Asia. There are many areas that felt more like being in Europe, especially compared to places like Beijing. It's fairly easy to get around, there's lots of great restaurants, stores, galleries to explore. If you are feeling adventurous, you can go to lots of Chinese places, if you're feeling homesick you can go to Dunkin Donuts and the Gap.
In terms of "it's a job"...it's also an opportunity to learn the design principles and building practices of another culture and give yourself a chance to expand on your own conceptions. Financially, the RMB is gradually increasing in value relative to the dollar, so it could prove to be a win in terms of money as well.
Worst case scenario, you can always come back here...
I'm going to preface this post by saying, I'VE NEVER BEEN TO CHINA.
One concern I would have is talk from "experts" that say China is building its own Real Estate Bubble. These same "experts" debate whether or not China is in for a hard landing. For those that think China will experience a hard landing, they say that growth will decline from 12% to 6%. Which is still insane if you consider that during the RE boom in the US, growth was at 3% or 4%.
If you don't have anything keeping you in the states, the above information probably doesn't matter. If you have a family who is adventurous and willing to go with you, then you might want to do some more research.
I would be interested to hear from others with boots on the ground, what their experience is with China and a potential RE bubble.
landplnr are you going to work for a western firm or a Chinese/Asian one? Because if you're going to go work for a western firm than moving to China is a no-brainer, just do it. Shanghai is an amazing city and working and living there is alot of fun. I did some work there awhile back and was thinking about moving back myself untill I landed a job here.
Also, as an aside, I would get an ETA on when your passport will be processed if possible. If congress can't pass a budget by Friday night than the government will shut down and you'll be stuck in passport limbo, likely even past your two month window and there will be no way to expedite the process. If you can't get your passport the normal way by Friday, I'd go pay an expediter to get one processed immediately, it'll probably cost around $500 though.
passport expediting shouldn't take more than 2 weeks and costs less than $200 (including express shipping in both directions). just did it...and that was my experience. coincidentally, I had to expedite it (a renewal) for a trip to Shanghai. if you've already sent things in though, i doubt you can retroactively put it in the fast track...
otherwise...my 2cents...i agree with the posts above that suggest going for it. best of luck!
Thank you all for your input so far. I have the passport, I am just now waiting on the forms from the Shanghai employer in order to get the work visa (Z). You can get into China on a tourist visa, but you obviously can't work with just that. It is better to have all of this lined up and correct before one heads over there.
As others (not here) have said to me, consider it a 4 month working vacation. I have one other job prospect here on the mainland (SF Bay Area) but it appears frayed and flakey at this stage, and I need to be working again.
It is also worth mentioning that even the most conservative projections for when we will even reach parity with the millions of jobs lost in this country (we never will completely) and get back to pre-recession levels of so-called "healthy" unemployment (under 5%) will take at least three more years.
To Wurdan Freo:
I appreciate your points and concern. I have not done scholarly research into the potential for a Chinese Housing Bubble, but I have covered a lot of insightful analysis by others, both from a Western and Eastern perspective. My own take is this:
* There is no one clear and certain outcome or trend. There is differing opinion on both sides of the possibility. It is indeed unsettling.
* To give you an idea of how unsettling that is #1: There are hedge funds betting on the bubble bursting in China (sound familiar ? Read the Big Short to see how that played out here) #2 The increase in residential real estate values in many of the major league cities in China has been, to quote you INSANE and will certainly adjust downward, it depends on how hard the fall is. #3 When the China government intervenes to slow the radical increase in residential real estate values, they do it big time and have already applied the brakes. We will see how that plays out.
#4 And this is the scary part....Google "Ghost Cities in China" and look at the Time Magazine pictorial imagery and associated story.
It is indeed frightening. There are multiple new cities and developments that have been financed and built (complete with retail, commercial, cultural and civic) but are NEARLY OR COMPLETELY EMPTY as in no one lives there. This is a jaw dropper..... look it up
Anyway, the firm I am joining appears to have plenty of work (for now) is opening another office in Chengdu and possibly Vietnam next year, so for now, it beats anything here.
The unemployment rate in Oregon is 10.6%, upwards of 12% in Cali and a healthy 8.6% in bustling Washington. Architecture firms in Portland have emptied out by between half and two-thirds. Many small sized firms (whether Landscape Architecture or Architecture have simply vanished).
I really do have very little to lose.
Wow. That's amazing. Keep in touch and update us on your journey. Good luck.
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