As an urban designer who lives in Toronto and practices urban planning and design, and knowing the importance of public transit and cycling in our city, I always worry about how cyclists, streetcars and cars move together in streets with very narrow right of ways, specially when there is not a dedicated lane for cyclists and a lot of lay-by parkings on the street too.
We always promote public transit for environmental and sustainability reasons, the same with cycling. But I guess a lot of modifications need to be done in the way they have been combined together in some of the streets.
I have witnessed, heard and read about incidents in our city of how cyclists's lives have been in danger, how some people survived getting hit by a car while getting of the streetcar and how a poor driver had an accident while trying to be very careful. It is more than obvious than any of these groups who have an absolute right to choose their method for commute. But we are all human beings and although there are rules to how to drive and ride in the city, but still for any reason we may miss doing them.
Now, I have been discussing this with my friends from different groups; cyclist, drivers and the ones who take streetcars (including me). I would like to see what is your opinion about it. Do you see this as a problem at all? what are the possible solutions to create a better, more peaceful street environment without worrying too much about sad incidents.
My biggest beef with Toronto's layout is the lack of streets going west-east. The city blocks are some of the longest I've seen in all the places I've lived in.
If you were biking from the High Park area to Beaches area of the city, you would only have an option of taking 2 or 3 streets (that are actually continuous for more than a few blocks). Each one of these main streets has streetcars and lots of cars on it. Being a bicyclist in Toronto just sucks, and there's little that can be done to fix that. Blame the British general who laid out the city.
I live in Portland now, and while this city is hardly the poster child for biking and public transportation (as it claims to be), it's really nice to have multiple biking options from any point A to any point B. Lots of smaller (and slower) streets are perfect for an extensive bike path grid.
I do have to say Toronto is the city where I felt least safe as a bicyclist. And I lived in cities that were in the southern U.S.
And with the new mayor in Toronto, you won't have to worry about money being spent for either public transportation or bike safety for a long time to come.
I still think there are solutions to this. Although it is so sad that our new mayor has mentioned that he is against biking in the city. This reaction is to run away from the problem and not finding a solution. Unfortunately I am not seeing a bright future for Toronto with his visions for the next few years.
I feel as though the streetcars need to be replaced with either an extended subway line or a more efficient bus service.
There are so many dangers to getting on and off the streetcar with the exception of the queens quay line that has its own raised lane and waiting area. Also, the streetcars are extremely inefficient I find. There have been a couple times where a car broke down, or there was a medical emergency on board. None of the cars behind it could move as a result and everyone had to get off and find another means of transportation. Pretty crappy situation, especially during rush hour.
If they were to be replaced by a bus service (a competent and efficient bus service, mind you), then we wouldn't be dealing with people getting hit by moving cars when they get on or off the bus because then they wouldn't need to cross half a street... and we wouldn't be dealing with huge backlogs the moment something goes wrong with a single car.
Endooo: My God man, no! Streetcars may not be the most efficient ways to do a 15 mile commute, but they were never intended for such. There is nothing better than hopping on a streetcar to get to a place 15 blocks away.
EVERY. SINGLE. AMERICAN. CITY. had a comprehensive streetcar network at the turn of the century. Heck, LA Dodgers (baseball club) originally got its name after fans 'dodging' streetcars on their way to the ballgame. Back in that team's Brooklyn days. Not a single streetcar exists in Brooklyn now...
There is no mightier symbol of urbanism than a streetcar. Motor-city (Detroit big three) bought out all streetcar systems in U.S. and promptly shut them down in order to promote car travel. A crime against architecture (and so much more), really.
The fact that Toronto still has a fully operational streetcar system should be a point of pride. These lines were never meant to cover as much territory as they do now, but they make a perfect complimentary piece to a comprehensive subway system. In Toronto's case, probably never.
Buses suck. In every way imaginable. <expanding on this point would require an entire website>
I agree with steestuds. Streetcars are necessary in urban environment, specially that they are complimentary to the subway system. I think the way it has been integrated in Spadina Avenue (from King to Bloor- Specially closer to Queen street) where it has its own dedicated lane and the way it is surrounded by trees works really well and looks pleasant. The stations do not conflict with the other cars movement and the traffic light manages the pedestrian crossing pretty well. Spadina is getting more and more retail oriented in that area which leave enough room for pedestrians to walk freely on the wide sidewalks.
i think if we had street cars in some of the wider streets, where the stop stations were located in a walkable distance of our destination it would work pretty well. I just think it was not necessary to have it in every street considering the narrow right of ways. I would love to see some of the streets dedicated to cars and bike and ofcourse pedestrians (meaning having a lot of at grade activities) and some others should be more transit oriented.
I used to live on Farwell Avenue, maybe 6 blocks away from this image. Sadly Google wouldn't oblige me and have a city bus in the image, which is the only public transportation we have left in the city.
The upside to buses is that they can go pretty much anywhere, so routes are easy to change. The downside is that you have to wait out in the cold for them, you can't buy a ticket while you're waiting at the bus stop, you have to give the bus driver exact change while you're getting on which just takes longer, and if you need to transfer buses you need to ask for a transfer pass which is only good for one hour, and only works for one transfer. Probably the worst is that you no way of knowing when the next bus will arrive, though they do have printed timetables the buses don't always follow them. There's nothing worse than sitting outside in 10 degree weather waiting because the bus you wanted showed up 3 minutes early, and the next one comes in "around" 15 minutes.
Of course the downside to streetcars is that they require more infrastructure (for rail versions), and yet again you'll be out in the cold waiting, and the routes can't easily be changed. The upside is that they can be electrified if your community has access to clean energy. Also, they're more fun, and they're more integrated within the city and can become part of the city's identity, something I've never seen a bus do.
Still, after visiting cities with subway systems, I find that they're the easiest, quickest, and most desirable transportation system for any large urban area. They don't require changes to existing streets or buildings, they aren't burning gasoline all day long, they allow passengers to wait in a secure, warm area as opposed to on the city streets at night alone in a blizzard, and they can show wait times so you know how long until the next train arrives. They do require the most infrastructure though.
Hi Milwaukee08,
I totally agree that there are pros and cons for each of the of public transportation systems.
And you concluded that subway is the best option for commute. But I have to say that it will be the best way of commute if the subway netwrok is something close to what has happened in Paris, for instance. The subway routes have been expanded all over the city through a web-like network.
In Toronto we still need the complimentary routes (buses and streetcars). Achieving something like what people have in Paris as as a mean of transportation will take ages for Toronto. If it happens it will be great, but we should use the current system for a very long time till the substitute for it are realized over time.
Please remember that for instance, the extension of the Sheppard east-west subway line has been under negotiation for a very long time.
I feel like I've just had a particularly horrible experience with the TTC. Regardless though, I think there's a lot of room for improvement where the streetcars don't have their own dedicated lane (I'm thinking along queen street where the street is fairly narrow, but carries a lot of traffic, getting on and off the streetcar near the eaton's center is nerve wracking)
Also, buses aren't all that bad; not preferable to, say, the subway, but they at least eliminate the danger of having to stepping out onto the streets. I think the VIVA service running in york region is a fairly advanced bus service; much better than the TTC operated bus service in any case.
This aside, aren't they planning on replacing the streetcars with LRTs anyway?
Nov 4, 10 10:34 pm ·
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Toronto with streetcar, bicycle and vehicles
As an urban designer who lives in Toronto and practices urban planning and design, and knowing the importance of public transit and cycling in our city, I always worry about how cyclists, streetcars and cars move together in streets with very narrow right of ways, specially when there is not a dedicated lane for cyclists and a lot of lay-by parkings on the street too.
We always promote public transit for environmental and sustainability reasons, the same with cycling. But I guess a lot of modifications need to be done in the way they have been combined together in some of the streets.
I have witnessed, heard and read about incidents in our city of how cyclists's lives have been in danger, how some people survived getting hit by a car while getting of the streetcar and how a poor driver had an accident while trying to be very careful. It is more than obvious than any of these groups who have an absolute right to choose their method for commute. But we are all human beings and although there are rules to how to drive and ride in the city, but still for any reason we may miss doing them.
Now, I have been discussing this with my friends from different groups; cyclist, drivers and the ones who take streetcars (including me). I would like to see what is your opinion about it. Do you see this as a problem at all? what are the possible solutions to create a better, more peaceful street environment without worrying too much about sad incidents.
My biggest beef with Toronto's layout is the lack of streets going west-east. The city blocks are some of the longest I've seen in all the places I've lived in.
If you were biking from the High Park area to Beaches area of the city, you would only have an option of taking 2 or 3 streets (that are actually continuous for more than a few blocks). Each one of these main streets has streetcars and lots of cars on it. Being a bicyclist in Toronto just sucks, and there's little that can be done to fix that. Blame the British general who laid out the city.
I live in Portland now, and while this city is hardly the poster child for biking and public transportation (as it claims to be), it's really nice to have multiple biking options from any point A to any point B. Lots of smaller (and slower) streets are perfect for an extensive bike path grid.
I do have to say Toronto is the city where I felt least safe as a bicyclist. And I lived in cities that were in the southern U.S.
And with the new mayor in Toronto, you won't have to worry about money being spent for either public transportation or bike safety for a long time to come.
The moment you accept Toronto is not a world-class city, it all gets better from there .
I still think there are solutions to this. Although it is so sad that our new mayor has mentioned that he is against biking in the city. This reaction is to run away from the problem and not finding a solution. Unfortunately I am not seeing a bright future for Toronto with his visions for the next few years.
I feel as though the streetcars need to be replaced with either an extended subway line or a more efficient bus service.
There are so many dangers to getting on and off the streetcar with the exception of the queens quay line that has its own raised lane and waiting area. Also, the streetcars are extremely inefficient I find. There have been a couple times where a car broke down, or there was a medical emergency on board. None of the cars behind it could move as a result and everyone had to get off and find another means of transportation. Pretty crappy situation, especially during rush hour.
If they were to be replaced by a bus service (a competent and efficient bus service, mind you), then we wouldn't be dealing with people getting hit by moving cars when they get on or off the bus because then they wouldn't need to cross half a street... and we wouldn't be dealing with huge backlogs the moment something goes wrong with a single car.
Endooo: My God man, no! Streetcars may not be the most efficient ways to do a 15 mile commute, but they were never intended for such. There is nothing better than hopping on a streetcar to get to a place 15 blocks away.
EVERY. SINGLE. AMERICAN. CITY. had a comprehensive streetcar network at the turn of the century. Heck, LA Dodgers (baseball club) originally got its name after fans 'dodging' streetcars on their way to the ballgame. Back in that team's Brooklyn days. Not a single streetcar exists in Brooklyn now...
There is no mightier symbol of urbanism than a streetcar. Motor-city (Detroit big three) bought out all streetcar systems in U.S. and promptly shut them down in order to promote car travel. A crime against architecture (and so much more), really.
The fact that Toronto still has a fully operational streetcar system should be a point of pride. These lines were never meant to cover as much territory as they do now, but they make a perfect complimentary piece to a comprehensive subway system. In Toronto's case, probably never.
Buses suck. In every way imaginable. <expanding on this point would require an entire website>
I agree with steestuds. Streetcars are necessary in urban environment, specially that they are complimentary to the subway system. I think the way it has been integrated in Spadina Avenue (from King to Bloor- Specially closer to Queen street) where it has its own dedicated lane and the way it is surrounded by trees works really well and looks pleasant. The stations do not conflict with the other cars movement and the traffic light manages the pedestrian crossing pretty well. Spadina is getting more and more retail oriented in that area which leave enough room for pedestrians to walk freely on the wide sidewalks.
i think if we had street cars in some of the wider streets, where the stop stations were located in a walkable distance of our destination it would work pretty well. I just think it was not necessary to have it in every street considering the narrow right of ways. I would love to see some of the streets dedicated to cars and bike and ofcourse pedestrians (meaning having a lot of at grade activities) and some others should be more transit oriented.
North Ave & Farwell Ave, probably in the 1950's
North Ave & Farwell Ave, Today
I used to live on Farwell Avenue, maybe 6 blocks away from this image. Sadly Google wouldn't oblige me and have a city bus in the image, which is the only public transportation we have left in the city.
The upside to buses is that they can go pretty much anywhere, so routes are easy to change. The downside is that you have to wait out in the cold for them, you can't buy a ticket while you're waiting at the bus stop, you have to give the bus driver exact change while you're getting on which just takes longer, and if you need to transfer buses you need to ask for a transfer pass which is only good for one hour, and only works for one transfer. Probably the worst is that you no way of knowing when the next bus will arrive, though they do have printed timetables the buses don't always follow them. There's nothing worse than sitting outside in 10 degree weather waiting because the bus you wanted showed up 3 minutes early, and the next one comes in "around" 15 minutes.
Of course the downside to streetcars is that they require more infrastructure (for rail versions), and yet again you'll be out in the cold waiting, and the routes can't easily be changed. The upside is that they can be electrified if your community has access to clean energy. Also, they're more fun, and they're more integrated within the city and can become part of the city's identity, something I've never seen a bus do.
Still, after visiting cities with subway systems, I find that they're the easiest, quickest, and most desirable transportation system for any large urban area. They don't require changes to existing streets or buildings, they aren't burning gasoline all day long, they allow passengers to wait in a secure, warm area as opposed to on the city streets at night alone in a blizzard, and they can show wait times so you know how long until the next train arrives. They do require the most infrastructure though.
Hi Milwaukee08,
I totally agree that there are pros and cons for each of the of public transportation systems.
And you concluded that subway is the best option for commute. But I have to say that it will be the best way of commute if the subway netwrok is something close to what has happened in Paris, for instance. The subway routes have been expanded all over the city through a web-like network.
In Toronto we still need the complimentary routes (buses and streetcars). Achieving something like what people have in Paris as as a mean of transportation will take ages for Toronto. If it happens it will be great, but we should use the current system for a very long time till the substitute for it are realized over time.
Please remember that for instance, the extension of the Sheppard east-west subway line has been under negotiation for a very long time.
A couple of interesting examples about bicycle lane and traffic lane:
In New York:
http://www.streetsblog.org/2006/11/20/physically-separated-bike-lanes-contd/
In Holland:
http://affordable-europe.com/2010/02/24/dutch-biking/
Different cities:
http://www.fezzari.com/teamfezzari/2010/09/02/8-innovative-uses-of-bike-lanes-from-around-the-world/
I feel like I've just had a particularly horrible experience with the TTC. Regardless though, I think there's a lot of room for improvement where the streetcars don't have their own dedicated lane (I'm thinking along queen street where the street is fairly narrow, but carries a lot of traffic, getting on and off the streetcar near the eaton's center is nerve wracking)
Also, buses aren't all that bad; not preferable to, say, the subway, but they at least eliminate the danger of having to stepping out onto the streets. I think the VIVA service running in york region is a fairly advanced bus service; much better than the TTC operated bus service in any case.
This aside, aren't they planning on replacing the streetcars with LRTs anyway?
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