In this down economy, I would think many developers are surviving better than most architects, b/c of their business savvy. This way under-employed architect is wondering whether anyone has experience being an architect but transitioning to and working at a developer's office. Do developers even hire architects to work for them internally or do they mostly hire an outside arch firm to do the work? Would they most likely be able to pay better right now than most architects who are struggling obviously?
Thx for any insight.
In my experience, development firms generally don't hire individual architects to practice architecture ... more typically, they hire individual architects to perform a project management function (at least initially). In an economy like this one, with so few new projects being initiated, it may be difficult to find a position in such a firm unless you're extremely lucky or know somebody at the firm who can vouch for you.
I worked in development firms for about 15 years during the middle part of my career. In all that time, I worked on new development projects in either a construction management or a development management capacity. During slow periods, I sometimes helped out in the property management area.
While my background in architecture was a factor in obtaining these positions, the main skill that made me employable in such firms was my ability to manage complex teams and projects. However, keep in mind that the "ability to manage complex teams and projects" is totally different in a development firm than it is in a design firm -- the breadth of your responsibility generally is much broader and often very much about financial and legal issues.
i don't really know of any developers who are hiring, especially for architects. the few that i know have cut staff back to a bare minimum, in some cases they are the only ones at their offices.
most developers I've seen/know are unable to get funding/loans for their projects. They are either cutting costs and trying to ride out the storm while holding on to their sites for as long as possible to avoid foreclosure. A lot of developers in this economy are using the lack of projects to entice architects to work for free with the promise of a big payoff down the line in the bank gives them a loan.
I would also not list most developers as business savvy but money driven. They will cut every corner they can to squeeze out every last dollar. That means that if they do hire architects, then we would be the first ones to go. This is not meant to say that it is impossible to get a job with a developer...some still have income coming in from gov't sources, etc. Of course you should try like the rest of us...I just don't believe that your odds are any better in that route than the traditional one....
I have encountered the "work for free" meme across the board these days. Developers are broke. The wealthy ones are sitting on a pile of cash and a few have staff like at Lakeshore East in Chicago. It's slim pickings here in Chicago.
"The Vivos network is the idea of Del Mar, Calif., developer Robert Vicino. Vicino, who launched the Vivos project last December, says he seeks buyers willing to pay $50,000 for adults and $25,000 for children. The company is starting with a 13,000-square-foot refurbished underground shelter formerly operated by the U.S. government at an undisclosed location near Barstow, Calif., that will have room for 134 people, he says. Vicino puts the average cost for a shelter at $10 million. Vivos plans for facilities as large as 100,000 square feet, says real estate broker Dan Hotes of Seattle, who over the past four years has collaborated with Vicino on a project involving partial ownership of high-priced luxury homes and is now involved with Vivos."
Good luck. I think developers have it worse because most utilize a lot of leverage. When things go south, they are losing TONS of money via interest carry, lower sales/rent prices, etc. Also, it is incredibly difficult to get additional financing, banks are changing the rules half way through a project, etc.
As make notes, the ones that have cash are sitting on the side lines, waiting. I know of several projects, done all the way through websites, but they are waiting for the market to turn, which will mean financing should become more available.
Developers are the canaries in the mine - when they start shedding jobs, its all over. But do look to developers for signs of recovery when they start hiring development and project managers.
They do need to be ahead of the market return to make any money, so they need to be putting developments in place 12-18 months in advance of when they think this is going to be.
I imagine most successful [or survival] developers at the moment spend half of their time with approaches from other developers and banks to take on failed schemes and somehow make them work.
Architects should definitely learn more about the development business.
And I second trace - no lending = no development. Even if and when there will be a return, banks are still hesitant to risk it. Even if a developer has their own funds, the first rule of development is use someone elses money.
We work primarily for developers. On the plus side they understand the process and don't tend to quibble about things that a person less educated about the building process would, like the cost incurred to go through a planning board change. They also appreciate when you do something that saves them money, and they can recognize when you did this unlike house clients. They also typically have terrible taste and price is the bottom line.
They understand the architects role and typically would rather have them as a line item that is accountable than save a little money and themselves be accountable. They also typically have a law background since most of their day is spent ironing out contracts. I never see architects working for developers. I see them hiring business majors and lawyers. They work out numbers and contracts and leave the building part up to everyone else.
That being said i have seen a few really experienced architects hired to do CA type of stuff for developers. I just don't see job openings being any better there, even in good times. Others may have different experiences though.
Jul 29, 10 11:27 am ·
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Survival job - Working at a developer
In this down economy, I would think many developers are surviving better than most architects, b/c of their business savvy. This way under-employed architect is wondering whether anyone has experience being an architect but transitioning to and working at a developer's office. Do developers even hire architects to work for them internally or do they mostly hire an outside arch firm to do the work? Would they most likely be able to pay better right now than most architects who are struggling obviously?
Thx for any insight.
In my experience, development firms generally don't hire individual architects to practice architecture ... more typically, they hire individual architects to perform a project management function (at least initially). In an economy like this one, with so few new projects being initiated, it may be difficult to find a position in such a firm unless you're extremely lucky or know somebody at the firm who can vouch for you.
I worked in development firms for about 15 years during the middle part of my career. In all that time, I worked on new development projects in either a construction management or a development management capacity. During slow periods, I sometimes helped out in the property management area.
While my background in architecture was a factor in obtaining these positions, the main skill that made me employable in such firms was my ability to manage complex teams and projects. However, keep in mind that the "ability to manage complex teams and projects" is totally different in a development firm than it is in a design firm -- the breadth of your responsibility generally is much broader and often very much about financial and legal issues.
Hope that helps.
i don't really know of any developers who are hiring, especially for architects. the few that i know have cut staff back to a bare minimum, in some cases they are the only ones at their offices.
most developers I've seen/know are unable to get funding/loans for their projects. They are either cutting costs and trying to ride out the storm while holding on to their sites for as long as possible to avoid foreclosure. A lot of developers in this economy are using the lack of projects to entice architects to work for free with the promise of a big payoff down the line in the bank gives them a loan.
I would also not list most developers as business savvy but money driven. They will cut every corner they can to squeeze out every last dollar. That means that if they do hire architects, then we would be the first ones to go. This is not meant to say that it is impossible to get a job with a developer...some still have income coming in from gov't sources, etc. Of course you should try like the rest of us...I just don't believe that your odds are any better in that route than the traditional one....
I have encountered the "work for free" meme across the board these days. Developers are broke. The wealthy ones are sitting on a pile of cash and a few have staff like at Lakeshore East in Chicago. It's slim pickings here in Chicago.
Saw this link on Yahoo today:
Doomsday shelters making a comeback
"The Vivos network is the idea of Del Mar, Calif., developer Robert Vicino. Vicino, who launched the Vivos project last December, says he seeks buyers willing to pay $50,000 for adults and $25,000 for children. The company is starting with a 13,000-square-foot refurbished underground shelter formerly operated by the U.S. government at an undisclosed location near Barstow, Calif., that will have room for 134 people, he says. Vicino puts the average cost for a shelter at $10 million. Vivos plans for facilities as large as 100,000 square feet, says real estate broker Dan Hotes of Seattle, who over the past four years has collaborated with Vicino on a project involving partial ownership of high-priced luxury homes and is now involved with Vivos."
Good luck. I think developers have it worse because most utilize a lot of leverage. When things go south, they are losing TONS of money via interest carry, lower sales/rent prices, etc. Also, it is incredibly difficult to get additional financing, banks are changing the rules half way through a project, etc.
As make notes, the ones that have cash are sitting on the side lines, waiting. I know of several projects, done all the way through websites, but they are waiting for the market to turn, which will mean financing should become more available.
Banks not lending = no development
Developers are the canaries in the mine - when they start shedding jobs, its all over. But do look to developers for signs of recovery when they start hiring development and project managers.
They do need to be ahead of the market return to make any money, so they need to be putting developments in place 12-18 months in advance of when they think this is going to be.
I imagine most successful [or survival] developers at the moment spend half of their time with approaches from other developers and banks to take on failed schemes and somehow make them work.
Architects should definitely learn more about the development business.
And I second trace - no lending = no development. Even if and when there will be a return, banks are still hesitant to risk it. Even if a developer has their own funds, the first rule of development is use someone elses money.
I am looking for a job as a IT professional.But because of recession It wouldn't been possible.
We work primarily for developers. On the plus side they understand the process and don't tend to quibble about things that a person less educated about the building process would, like the cost incurred to go through a planning board change. They also appreciate when you do something that saves them money, and they can recognize when you did this unlike house clients. They also typically have terrible taste and price is the bottom line.
They understand the architects role and typically would rather have them as a line item that is accountable than save a little money and themselves be accountable. They also typically have a law background since most of their day is spent ironing out contracts. I never see architects working for developers. I see them hiring business majors and lawyers. They work out numbers and contracts and leave the building part up to everyone else.
That being said i have seen a few really experienced architects hired to do CA type of stuff for developers. I just don't see job openings being any better there, even in good times. Others may have different experiences though.
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