I can easily point to Tadao Ando's work as one of my earliest sources of inspiration, pulling me toward a life embedded in architecture. The powerful simplicity of his forms has always seemed to me, to represent an understanding far greater than that of the built environment alone. A few weeks ago, we had a rare opportunity to meet and talk with the master, thanks to a generous offer from Cal Poly Pomona and Axel Schmitzberger, during Ando's brief visit to Los Angeles to collect his 2012 Richard Neutra Award. So, Orhan, Alex, Kaori and I headed out to Neutra's VDL House in Silver Lake, on a chilly afternoon in late March, for a brief, yet memorable, chat.
Orhan Ayyüce
I met you 25 years ago at Morphosis' office while you were visiting LA doing lectures. I'd like to ask you about the changes you've noticed in Los Angeles since that time.
Tadao Ando
The first time I came to LA was in 1975. Since then the world has moved very quickly. The environment has changed so much as well. The mentality, or thinking, of the architects here has not changed much compared to the rate of environmental change.
OA
Can you describe this more? The architects of that period believed they were doing groundbreaking work. Do you still think this is true?
TA
What I see, as opposed to the 1950's, when we look at the case study houses, part of the California architecture was the promise of a new lifestyle. The architecture was trying to accommodate, or relate, to this new lifestyle for that generation. This seems to have gradually changed to a search for form for expression by itself. Now, I see more architecture that relates to the business of architecture. In this sense, it seems like the focus of trying to define what living in our time should be like, is not as strong as it used to be back in the '50's.
OA
In the 50's the economic conditions were completely different. We are in a completely different era. We have a very definite difference between income levels, so there's some kind of political nervousness, and architects can no longer separate themselves from the nervousness so they have to respond to social issues in addition to architectural or urban issues. So, I was wondering if you have any thoughts about the architect's role of being a social leader in changing the environment or what they can do at the urban scale.
TA
For me, going back to what we were talking about before, it's a problem not unique to Los Angeles. It's a problem we all share regarding natural resources and the environment. Not too long ago, we were a planet of 3 billion people. Now we have 7.7 billion people. We'll quickly have 10 billion. Because of that, it's very difficult to not always think about how to use the resources available to us. In the sense of the gap you mentioned, it leads to something we need need to address, whether you're rich or poor. As a design profession, we need to make it very clear what our position is, in the global situation that we're facing. How do we intelligently address the problem that faces everyone, about material resources? And how do we lead society to think that it is something we have to address, rather than just following the business driven goals of each project? It's important that within each of our work that we think about how we use materials, and how energy can be used in a way that it creates a meaningful message for people that live in the building. How the importance of the environment can be perceived by the experience of the architecture.
The way that architects think about their work is still the same. There's no change or shift in focus in the way architects address available resources and energy use. It's important for young architects to begin thinking about this.
OA
Are you doing any work, in your own office, that embodies the principals you just talked about?
TA
For me, what I'm trying to do, is try to make people think about these issues. I'm not in a position to tell people what to do. I want people to realize the potential and the problem. For example, in my work, whether it is an art museum or other type of project, I try to put nature as the focus of the message. As a person looks at a space I design, they may question their own existence as it relates to the space, but they are still looking at the architecture in relationship to the natural context.
I look at art - whether it's art, music, film, architecture - as a way to look for inspiration. To make a thing about other things. So, in that same way, I try to make people think about other things in my own work. For example, on the flight here, I was watching the movie "Iron Lady" starring Meryl Streep, portraying Margaret Thatcher in her later years. I was watching Meryl Streep, as an actress - an artist portraying a role - but at the same time, I was thinking about the life and decisions of Margaret Thatcher. In a similar way, in my own work, I try to embed a message that the users can take away with them and use in their own way.
Another example is when I was in Malibu this morning, at my construction site, there was a group of sea lions, and this made me realize that I was not alone in this environment. They are using this same environment.
Paul Petrunia
The business of architecture is in a state of crisis right now. There are many young architects and students that are questioning their role because it is so difficult to find work. Do you have any advice for young architects that are struggling to find new ways to apply their architectural skills and experience?
TA
For me, I think architecture is one of the best professions for society. How many careers can you find that can combine structure and composition of space; while working with specialists in may different fields to create a work of architecture. These skills don't limit themselves to just buildings. We have learned to coordinate and collaborate with many different people to create great things. There are few other professions that rely on one person to coordinate these types of important projects for society. The architect's skills are beneficial to society in so many ways, and that leads us to think about how our creative, managerial and coordination skills can be applied to other fields.
We don't work in a vacuum. We compose, put everything together, while working with a lot of people. There is a lot of excitement and inspiration that comes from interacting and working with so many people. We need to be able to use this practice in a way that extends the profession of architecture into other areas. There are always times of recession and hardship, so we need to understand this greater skill that architecture provides us.
And for me, personally, the hope and the dream is not something you can receive from someone. It's important to start from within. You can't wait for something to happen. This is the approach I've always taken. Look at me - I'm doing well... I didn't study architecture in school. I didn't graduate from university. I started with a big disadvantage.
OA
So you're not going back to boxing?
(laughs all around)
TA
I'm still boxing!
OA
I was watching a documentary online about you on the internet. It was in Japanese, so I couldn't understand a word. There was a scene in the video showing you with a megaphone in your hand, speaking to about 200 hundred workers at a construction site. This scene made me very emotional. I could see that you have a talent for connecting with people.
TA
As we all know, you can't make architecture by yourself. An architect needs to make everyone take ownership for the work. To be successful, you need to ensure that every carpenter, plumber, and so on, in every project, is doing their own project. Every time I go to the construction site, I try to take a photograph of every worker. It's a symbol that we're all working together with a shared goal. It's very important for me that everyone feels that way.
Paul Petrunia is the founder and director of Archinect, a (mostly) online publication/resource founded in 1997 to establish a more connected community of architects, students, designers and fans of the designed environment. Outside of managing his growing team of writers, editors, designers and ...
A long-time contributor to Archinect as a senior editor and writing about architecture, urbanism, people, politics, arts, and culture. The featured articles, interviews, news posts, activism, and provocations are published here and on other websites and media. A licensed architect in ...
156 Comments
kjdt,
I just called PA board. Yes, they DO have this path still and it is still available to anyone seeking this path.
Here's the jist.... Will May... here it is. DO TALK TO THE PA's Architect board and find a way to be calm and collective and find a way to get through it with east.
9 years of documented experience without a degree. 3 of those years are IDP (5600 training hours... to be on the safe side... document on the NCARB IDP record.... 6,240 hours.
The other 6 years ( NO DOUBLE DIPPING HOURS with IDP ) of experience. Make sure it is clean and clear where IDP begins and ends and what hours done to fulfill the 6 additional years in lieu of a degree is before or after or before AND after IDP but not interwoven with IDP. It is just very hard to properly discern those hours so they will give credit for verified IDP hours but not other hours because they are happening over the top of the other and gets messy.
The board members are evaluating the experience so they would have difficulty discerning one experience from the other especially with overlapping date. kjdt, I know it is not impossible but you know it can get difficult and even you can testify to that.
Wil, the intent of the experience is where someone worked in dedicated architecture offices for a year or 2 years or 3 year stretch dedicated in roles and responsibilities that would be the kind of work experience that qualifies for IDP such as preparing schematic drawings, DDs and CDs and pre-design diagramming and research and those experiences that are clearly in the domain of architectural services not work that are independent building design services or non-architecture work such as real estate sales agent or janitorial or god knows what else...
From my cursory look at your resume, I have a hard time discerning that. I'm sure the board will, too.
Your IDP is verified by your IDP supervisor throughout so those are good. Your IDP is fine if you actually completed all 5600 training hours.
You have to document in addition 6 years of experience that is verified by each employer and I believe they expect it to be from the architect whom you were under supervision during that time. You need to send a copy or more of page 4 of the Application for Examination form to employer and get the architect who supervised you to verify. If necessary, they should submit additional information on additional sheets of paper clarifying your experience. If your former architect supervisor is no longer working with the former employers... you may want to get in contact with that person and get them to sign off and affix their stamp/seal and have it included with the former employer. If possible, get them to meet up with the employer (firm owner) and get the stuff filled out and signed off and included. The former architect supervisor may simply provide an additional sheet that he was employed with the firm at the time. The firm owner will provide a documentation supplement to the page 4 sheet of the application for exam form verifying your employment and your former supervisor. The firm (employer) will then include all that in a mail packet and send it directly to the board. Remember, the evaluator (a board member) needs to know this. He or she doesn't know you from another joe on the street. The evaluator will need to understand what is going on.
Will, your type of experience and the way you gone about it will need additional documentation. They need to be able to make heads or tails from your experience.
PLEASE TALK WITH THE PA BOARD OF ARCHITECT TO DETERMINE WHAT INFORMATION THEY NEED. ASK THE BOARD TO PROVIDE YOU SOME INFORMATION OR CONCERNS THEY HAVE WITH THE EXPERIENCE RECORD. JUST ASK THEM TO EXPLAIN IN MORE DETAIL THEIR CONCERN OVER YOUR EXPERIENCE.
REMEMBER, DO NOT DOUBLE DIP IDP AND YOUR REQUIRED 6 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN LIEU OF A DEGREE. YOU NEED TO DOCUMENT 9 YEARS.
You already indicated some of the reasons which already raises a flag. Some of your former employers have failed to fill out that form and send it to the licensing board. The board requires the experience be verified.
Office Education/Training credits must be submitted directly from each employer, signed by supervising registered architect and must include dates of employment, whether full time/part time and specific duties performed.
I do believe they require 9 years of Full-Time equivalency. Individual experience maybe full-time or part-time but they must add up to full-time equivalency or about 18,000 hours. 6 Years experience in lieu of a degree should add up to about 12,000 hours. 3 years IDP of 5600 training hours or about 6000 hours on the safe-side.
It doesn't matter if you work 1 hour a week or 40 hours a week. Employment is largely pro-rated off of typical 40 hours a week, 50 or 52 weeks a year or 2000 or 2080 hours a year.
Work experience is expected to be the kinds of duties that would qualify for IDP training hours.
The 6 years is pretty damn easy. It isn't like they are asking for a detailed hour by hour blow on your experience.
Richard I think there's a disconnect here in your understanding of what the board allows in regard to application procedures vs. the reality of what the board actually approves once they receive those applications. The way the regs are written gives PA's board broad discretionary powers. All they have to do is fall back on the clause that says they're allowed to apply NCARB's model education standard. Anybody can submit the application. The board will accept it and consider it (and cash the application fee checks) but that doesn't mean they'll approve it. Unless Will May can find recent evidence of a non-degreed applicant who has successfully obtained permission to test recently in PA he's better off not wasting more time and money on this.
If someone is not passing the board evaluation then they aren't following procedures.
eeayo...
Did your friend follow procedures correctly? Was that person double-dipping experience in lieu of a degree with the IDP. You should complete either IDP or the experience in lieu of a degree prior to beginning the other. Keep it clean and clear.
Was your friend getting his/her former architect supervisor to fill out a copy of page 4 and sending them DIRECTLY to the board of architects. Did he stamp/sign the sheet?
Did the supervisor explained the duties and responsibilities of your friend? Did he/she forget to explain all the duties required on an attached sheets explaining thoroughly what he or she did at the firm, the projects and roles and responsibility to support verifying your experience. That is important. The evaluator (board member(s)) needs to know what you did at the firm not just when you worked there. Was there a diverse array of responsibility.
Think like core IDP experience categories hours required and multiply them by 3 for the 6 hours in lieu plus 5600 IDP training hours. If your experience resembles what that would look like then your experience is likely to be approved. If you were just drawing door details then no. They probably have a evaluation policy of demonstrating diverse experience comparable to a degree or IDP.
Can someone and I mean SOMEONE get an RFI from the board of Pennsylvania about how experience in lieu of a degree is evaluated. I'll do that if that helps.
If they aren't allowing such path to licensure then they shouldn't be offering it on the forms. They can not legally offer the path in their application forms that they CURRENTLY have available and then prejudicely prohibit. If the board or board member is doing that deliberately... it is malice and ILLEGAL. Sure, the board can choose not to have the path into but they would need to change the forms. Then every person that takes that path needs to know what objective standards they are being held to and be fairly permitted. Otherwise, it is grounds for class action lawsuits directly at the responsible parties.
If they don't permit it, then it should not be on the form and even the staff shall be informed and directed to tell people who inquire about the experience path is no longer being evaluated. They also need to indicate it on their website. Otherwise, they are breaking laws because there are state laws in PA that requires fair administration of the licensing law. If I were to apply, if they aren't approving any experience based applicant then they should not offer the path and not collect my money for something they fail to reasonably inform me either on their website, their staff over the phone or otherwise or their application forms.
If I am applying for experience path, I expect the forms to be up to date and accurate about what paths are available to apply.
Otherwise, the board shall refund my money because of their malice. I would sue the board for negligence, misrepresentation and possible malice (if I have reasonable evidence) to recover my expenses.
However, it seems eeayo's friend and Will May seems to have failed to apply the procedures accordingly. They don't have page 4 forms being sent directly from their employers. Think of it like transcripts being directly sent from the educational institution. If you deliver it then it is not accepted. Okay?
eeayo,
No state licensing regulatory body in any state is allowed by any of the states laws to have such a disconnect between what they allow on the application and reality. If they allow the path in the application then they must by law validate with a policy where a person can possibly be licensed under such path.
You can not require a degree on a non-degree path. It will flop in any judicial lawsuit against the board. Education standard only applies to classroom learning not office practice. IDP training standards can be applied as far as types of experiences go. No state regulatory body may offer a path in the application and not accept or approve it if you meet the PUBLISHED REQUIREMENTS. State regulatory bodies MUST BE TRANSPARENT about that.
If the board is not going to accept experience path then the board must clearly post it on their website, inform their staff and remove all reference to such paths from their form. Any fucking idiot can do remove that from their forms in 15 minutes.
If what you say is true, there is clear grounds for lawsuits
Richard, my partner had no problem getting licensed in two other states that really do have experience paths based on 9 years of experience. He has 25+ years of experience - he could document IDP at least 8 times over. The issue is that Pennsylvania wants to keep that option on the books in case some board, at some point, evaluates some candidate to be worthy of a license based on experience. But they've written the rules such that the current board can use their discretion as to whether to approve those candidates, and the current board and all recent past boards have evaluated all applications by NCARB's model rules. Anybody can sue anybody. If somebody's got the time and resources for it, more power to them.
If I knew in 1977 that I should keep track of my hours and get letters I would have.
My point is that what difference what time I have put in, let me take the next 5 years to complete the A.R.E. like any other candidate - If and when I pass, I'm licensed.
Why should I be denied to take a TEST if some board is controlling the process? Why do we need a test if a board of my competitors is able to prevent me ( and others ) from taking the test? Why do some architects only do residential? Why can't I take the same test that enabled them to be called architects and I can't? I can't call myself an architect but Mr. Ando can? He didn't take the A.R.E., he didn't go thru IDP. Are we saying that if Mr. Ando came to Pittsburgh to do a project he would be allowed to hold himself out to an owner as an architect?
Give me eligibility to take the test, if I pass, I'm good to go. If I don't, I'm not. What good is a test if the test is doesn't determine fitness to perform an activity? I earned my Vocational-Educational certification as an Architectural/Mechanical CAD Instructor. I took tests that determined my fitness. I taught for 10 straight years.
Give me, and others, eligibility to take the A.R.E.. Why do architect's drawings need to meet the same criteria in a code review that my work needs to meet if I'm NOT an architect? CODES protect the health, safety and welfare of the public. Heck I know of situations that licensed architects failed to follow codes. So what good is a stamp?
All I'm asking is that the A.R.E be open for people who are willing to go thru the test. If that person passes, they meet the MINIMUM requirement to practice architecture.
180 HOURS
104 HOURS
278 HOURS
160 HOURS
160 HOURS
480 HOURS
1362 HOURS
3040 HOURS
2080 HOURS
800 HOURS
1280 HOURS
2080 HOURS
2080 HOURS
960 HOURS
960 HOURS
5760 HOURS
19040 TOTAL HOURS is what I've lost through no fault of my own doing.
Will kjdt above suggested you could take the ARE through some other state. That's viable - that's what my partner did. That still won't help with Pennsylvania once you pass but you could get a license elsewhere. Note your arithmetic is wrong, your listed hours total more than 19040. But it does raise flags of its own: Is that 16 separate jobs? With an average of only about 7 months each?
In looking at all the posts, why is it that Richard and me are the only ones using our real names?
Hey Richard, did you know that if you went to do a residential project in the City of Pittsburgh, you would Still need a licensed architect to stamp the drawings? The architect might not make any changes, but yet be able to charge any amount because, they can.
I'll make you a bet, that if I called 20 architects in the Pittsburgh region and asked them what their fee was for a residential project they'd all be in the range of 6% to 10% of the construction costs OR that their hourly rates would be within $25 to $35 of each other.
Why do you think that McDonalds, Burger King, etc, actually have tv ads for what their products cost but architect's fees aren't posted - Anti-Trust, ya right. Like they don't know what the other firm charges, gimmee a break.
I say let's all post our hourly rates, in fact, let's make it a regulation that firms MUST post their fees for the public to see. Man talk about kicking a yellow jacket nest with bare feet on a hot September day down a dirt road - woooo wee! This is Too much fun!
Yep, ante up boys and girls, we gonna have ourselves a chum fest, man...blood in the water now LOL POST your hourly rate for the public to see on your website - I dare ya LOL
In this interview Tadao Ando says "And for me, personally, the hope and the dream is not something you can receive from someone. It's important to start from within. You can't wait for something to happen. This is the approach I've always taken. Look at me - I'm doing well... I didn't study architecture in school. I didn't graduate from university. I started with a big disadvantage.".............so May and Balkins is it the system that is the problem or are you the problem?
Ouch, I'd have to do a LOT more research but initially I'd say the system. Sorry Olaf, I didn't catch your name?
From now on, if you chuckleheads are gonna rip on me, put your real name AND photo on your profile, just in case I ever do get licensed. LMAO
Why, if the system were ok, would there not be a national license with state specific requirements that take in consideration specific weather related activities, ie, earthquake, flood, fire and snow?
Why not have a national architect's license and forget all this reciprocal crap. You are either an architect or you aren't. You can go anywhere, with the addition of state specific testing, badda bing, badda boop. Anyone can take the A.R.E. as long as they complete all 7 sections in 5 years. Once you get licensed you must create a website with your resume and your fee schedule for the public to view.
"Ohhh we can't Bluto, we might get in trouble" ( if you don't know the reference go watch Animal House ).
Remember, if you are gonna post a response you MUST post your real name AND photo.
Leeeeets Rumble!!!!!!
Will, each city may have additional local ordinance rules. I didn't know specifically in Pittsburgh but it isn't unheard of.
I can legally challenge that in some places depending on whether it is codified city law or not such as a city department rule. The latter can be challenged while the earlier is not so easily challenged legally. Politcally.. sure but legally... nah.
Olaf,
The system has its problems. I'm not actually pursuing Pennsylvania for initial licensure. It would be somewhat a waste of my time to get licensed over there. If I were to say get reciprocity back in Oregon under future NCARB streamlined BEA (or whatever it evolves into) then I would rather get licensed in Washington because it would be easier for me to practice architecture there even though I live in Astoria, Oregon. Pennsylvania would be a lousy way to get enough years of post-licensure experience if you don't live close enough to that state.
I have a few options already but I called PA and ask about the experience path to licensure. They probably do still have the path. Maybe the board member evaluating needs to be changed with another board member because that board member is abusing his role as board member when the position is about enforcing the law not enforcing ones own personal political view in architectural licensing because the guy has a hair up his ass about those who don't have a degree.
If the board is systematically not approving licensing by experience then they are required to have such notice published and staff aware of that and they are required to remove it from their application forms within 90 days as a general standard. That is in EVERY state. They can not just take people's money by misleading them. If I was doing that kind of stuff as a private commercial enterprise, I'd be going to jail. Not just fined. I'd be going to jail.
Given what is said.... 5 YEARS or MORE. Seriously?
I am not saying they can't discontinue experience based path to licensure. They just can't represent that they do and take people's money. That's just plain THEFT. That is criminal theft.
Public expects the public government to abide by the same laws they require us to abide by. Otherwise, those people should simply be permanently removed from public service. I mean PERMANENTLY removed by any means.
Ideally without lethal force but I'm not going to lose sleep over a--holes.
It doesn't matter what state. That would be a legitimate reason for all Pennsylvania architects to hold the licensing board to task on this.
You want transparency and they better be on all matters. Otherwise, how can you be sure they aren't going out screwing you over. It is called corruption and it is a criminal act and you need to be a watch dog for the public to protect the public from being screwed over by public officials and that is what board members of licensing boards are. This is a duty of all citizens. Otherwise, keeping blind to the issues is only going to result in you being a slave and I mean a slave with no rights, no guns to defend yourself, etc.
What are you going to do to protect yourself. Then again Olaf, I don't know if you are a licensed Architect in the U.S. or a U.S. citizen at that.
Pennsylvania isn't representing that they do license people by experience. They're representing that they have the option to do so, but that they also have the option to default to NCARB's base rules. They're representing that they'll consider applications - which they do. And then they decide on a case by case basis. But all the decisions in the past decade or more have been "no".
This isn't that different a situation from the one in NY where there's still a path on the books that allows the board to evaluate experienced candidates and license them with no testing at all. They keep this on the books because there have been, now and again, certain unlicensed "starchitects" who the board wanted to license by that method. The last I'm aware of who successfully navigated that route was in the mid 1990s. That doesn't mean that they no longer accept applications from those who want to be evaluated via that route - they do accept them. It's not that they have a policy that they will reject everyone. They consider them all. And the answer has been "no" in every case in the last 20 years.
Will: I didn't attack your resume. I was trying to explain to Richard that there are more difficulties apparent in other versions I've seen than are apparent in the one he googled.
EEEEHHHNNNN - you didn't provide your nameeee...Johnnie....what do we have for KJDT....
Soo, you admit that they Do control the process:
"They keep this on the books because there have been, now and again, certain unlicensed "starchitects" who the board wanted to license by that method."
Gee, all I need to do is hold myself out to be a "Starchitect" and THEN the board will WANT me to be licensed?! Geeez, why didn't they tell me that!
Do you realize how bad that sounds and what the implications that brings?
Again, all I needed to do was provide the rope?
Architectural Registration Boards STILL control who they let in. This is EXACTLY why the boards are Not fit to be involved with who gets in or what the rules are. This is evident when you look at the 50 different board regulations - There is NO standard and licensed architects are able to manipulate the process.
Let's put it another way:
Tell me, to your knowledge:
1.) Is there a specific industry standard for what appears on a set of construction documents? Yes____ NO_____
2.) Is it possible that what I produce and what someone else produces, be they licensed or not, be different yet still be acceptable to a code review and obtain a building permit? YES_____ NO_____
3.) Is it possible that what I provide a client be generally the same or different from another person, be they licensed or not, yet meet code and enable an owner to obtain a building permit? YES_____ NO_____
4.) Is there only one way for a project to be defined in a set of Construction Documents? YES____ NO____
There is NO argument that qualifies the denial of me or anyone from taking the A.R.E.. Give me 5 years to pass all 7 parts - If I do, I'm good to go. If I don't, I start all over.
If you don't grant me eligibility you are suppressing my ability to compete in an Open Market, it's that simple.
Where did I say you shouldn't be allowed to test? I suggested to you that you CAN take the test - just have your NCARB record sent to another state and get authorization. Try Vermont, Colorado, California... You don't need to move, or test in another state in order to do that. You just need to get authorization from another state to take the test.
I didn't defend Pennsylvania's system anywhere. I'm not saying that it's a good system - I'm just saying they haven't budged on this issue in many years - and if they were to do so you're not necessarily the most clear-cut candidate to be the first, because your experiences are spotty, mostly short-term, and difficult to document. I'm suggesting that you'd reach your goal a lot sooner if you move to another state that more routinely licenses people without degrees.
NCARB is in favor of what you suggested: a national license, with state-specific tests only on state-specific matters such as on climate, seismic, and code issues. Many states' boards are in favor of that too. But many other states' boards aren't, including yours.
As for your questionnaire, my answers on 1 and 2 are "yes", on 3 "yes or no, depending on the project type", and on 4 "no".
On your other questions and demands: My firm's rates are public information. My hourly billable ranges from $145 to $175 depending on the project type, location, and my role on it. Percentage fees range 7.5% to 12.5%, depending on project specifics. My resume is online, with my name. Whether to use a real name on an online forum is each individual's prerogative. If you choose to do so that's your business, but so much the more reason to be consistent in what you post. Leaving a 15-year history of online resumes with ever-disappearing employers and changing date ranges isn't something I'd do, but again that's your prerogative.
kjdt,
YES THEY ARE.
UNLESS YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE PENNSYLVANIA BOARD OF ARCHITECT EXAMINERS, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION.
I talked to that licensing board office, TODAY. Yes. TODAY !!!!
Not yesterday. Not two weeks ago. Not 2 years ago. Not 20 years ago. TODAY !!!!!!!!!!
There is no indication from the staff that the licensing board denies EVERYONE who pursues this path from licensure from taking the ARE. It is illegal for them to do so because they can not require a person pursuing a license without a degree that they CLEARLY indicate is a path they offer to have to have a degree. If a license board offers experience only based path to licensure then they ABSOLUTELY do have to provide for an experience based path to licensure. They can not require a degree. If they did, they have to CLEARLY publish it.
If they are doing what YOU said, it is plain theft. Theft is a felony. Just a more elaborate form of a felony but a felony no less.
IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE INFERRING?
14th Amendment of the United States does require equal protection of the law. That also means the law must be equally enforced to everyone not some mickey mouse bribery game which I will personally go after with attorneys to prosecute them and send their asses to state penitentiary.
You know... there was a infamous penitentiary in Pennsylvania just for people with that organized crime/ bribery/etc. mind set. They can go to places like that just like the other mob types that don't respect the equal rights, protection and enforcement of the law for ALL people.
It isn't about whether or not there is a license by experience path but flat out stealing of money from people applying for the exam just be be denied with no good cause because they have no valid policy standard from which they are being evaluated to. A plain theft case. If so, Pennsylvania Board of Architects members are criminals engaged in criminal acts of theft. They are to speak up and provide clear response to this situation.
This is a grave concern. They shall either enforce the law and acknowledge applicants with a fair evaluation of their records in accordance with a fair and valid policy standard such as comparing experience roles and duties to the kinds of experience attained through IDP. That is valid. They better have something on this line.
Hell, Washington State is a good one to compare with. Such as 6 years of experience and 3 years for IDP. What experience is valid for experience in lieu of a degree in Washington state? Look there. Good example and the standard is applicable to that of what they already have a system for.
What else is there for them to squabble over? Who says the law review exam or a law summary has to happen before or after ARE. It can be done before or after. How hard is that to administer? Then take the ARE and once that is completed, the person transmit the scores and pay the fees and voila... licensed. What the hell is the problem?
kjdt, if you are a board member than explain what the hell is going on there.
I think every public citizen and applicant of architectural licensing in PA deserves to know. The public deserves to know what the fuck is going on here amounting to blatant theft.
If someone is denied approval to take the ARE, it should be for a valid reason like not meeting the required architect supervisor verified experience. That can be resolved by making sure the remaining unverified experience gets verified and resubmit.
I want the Pennsylvania Board of Architect members to speak on this.
Richard: have you found anybody who was licensed in Pennsylvania by the experience route, without a degree, in the last 10 years? Was the person you spoke with at the state able to provide you with any names or point you to minutes listing any such person?
Having said all what I said, I do agree with you, kjdt, that it is probably easier for Will May to choose another state.
I do have a problem with criminally ran architectural licensing boards being ran by criminals. When they are flat out through a barely clever form of fraud of taking applicants money on the premise they have a reasonable standard of being evaluated fairly. It is one thing if someone objectively doesn't have the required experience being denied. NO ONE... not even I would be requesting someone who just doesn't have the required verified experience be permitted.
I'm not saying any of that. I am saying if someone has it, they should be permitted to take the ARE. The board is not allowed to collect money by fraud and that is what you imply and that is theft if they are doing so.
Theft is a felony. That is perfect ground for board members to go to jail.
I am not suggesting one way or another if Will May qualifies.
I'm haven't seen a thorough resume. Only the one. I can't say with any degree of certainty where he stands.
kjdt,
"Richard: have you found anybody who was licensed in Pennsylvania by the experience route, without a degree, in the last 10 years? Was the person you spoke with at the state able to provide you with any names or point you to minutes listing any such person?"
How am I going to find that out? I'll call them tomorrow but I don't think they will be answering that. Probably, I would have to do a public records request on every architect in Pennsylvania for what education they have.
I don't know if the board minutes will provide that kind of information. It might be something done in closed executive session type of stuff.
I'll look at the board minutes and all but I don't think it is easy to determine and will take time. How will I be able to discern one candidates on one path from another from the board minutes?
I don't think the board staff if going to personally recollect who was licensed under what path. Even then, are they going to provide that for some Joe blow nobody.
I looked for the minutes.... it is going to be a costly proposition.
http://www.dos.pa.gov/ProfessionalLicensing/BoardsCommissions/Pages/Order%20Previous%20Minutes.aspx#.Veeumm6rSUk
kjdt,
Hell man, I don't think anyone is going to find jack diddly about ANY applicant via board minutes that isn't there to look at without a diaz service or court recorder service to transcribe the meeting to minutes. Put it mildly, it is going to be costly and it sucks to not be as publically available for public analysis or scrutiny.
kjdt,
My point is it is illegal for licensing boards to accept and collect money for applications to take exam just to routinely by policy deny every single one of them. If they are automatically saying no to their application then either there is something horribly criminal, flawed with the application information request process because EVERY applicant shall be allow to take the exam if they meet the published requirements. The applicant needs to have ALL the information needed to be filled out. If they are requiring a non-degree'd person to have a degree who is applying for a non-degree path. They just can not legally do that. Every time they do that, it is a violation of fraud and is a theft.
If a person is applying by experience they shall be permitted to take the ARE. If they are offering this in the application then they shall evaluate them through a valid evaluation standard applicable to experience based path. How can you apply NCARB's educational model to experience based work field. Employment and employers are not schools. They don't teach classes to employees. They don't do that sort of stuff. Your learning comes from doing projects as assigned by supervising architects (for architecture work).
Applying standards that are inapplicable to office work setting because that isn't how ANY office operates. Architecture firms would bleed themselves into bankruptcy trying to offer full-time school programs to their employees. That is because, they won't getting anything done. They just can not do that. It doesn't work that way in real world.
Architects live client paycheck to client paycheck.
We don't know how many clients in the last 10 years got licensed by experience and what client got licensed by degree. We know nothing about either. This is because they don't publish anything on their website because they don't publish their minutes. I don't think we can know the answer either way. We only know of two cases because of one first hand and the other being second hand information. That is all we know. We know nothing more because there isn't published information from PA arch board.
I might dig into NCARB data but even that may not give us the necessary information.
"In this interview Tadao Ando says "And for me, personally, the hope and the dream is not something you can receive from someone. It's important to start from within. You can't wait for something to happen. This is the approach I've always taken. Look at me - I'm doing well... I didn't study architecture in school. I didn't graduate from university. I started with a big disadvantage.".............so May and Balkins is it the system that is the problem or are you the problem?
Now, I'll focus on the Tadao Ando statement. I'm glad he was successful. When he started, experience path to licensing was fairly common. These days, more and more states are restricting the pathways and forcing more and more people down the get a college degree path all the while, colleges get more expensive at excessive rate of increase in tuition cost and also with the fact that the pay for entry level employees in firms haven't changed much if at all since when Jimmy Carter was President to give a since of how much time has past and how flat our pay rate has been with increase in cost.
We live in a time of less opportunity. The land of opportunity had turned into the land of oppression. How the hell did that happen?
I'm sure his points do have a degree of validity still but the challenges are more difficult these days than it used to be.
Hell, we are suppose to cram entire degree worth of education in a single 3 credit course? How the f--- is that even humanly possible.
I've had courses like that where they expected far more per hour than is realistic for someone under undergrad level. They expect people to already know a number of these tools. Um.... age discrimination?
Such is life but it is important to keep in mind we aren't in the environment of opportunity.
hey Will and Richard I concur with Olaf qouting Ando and I could name a dozen "unlicensed" architects who do amazingly well, to the point where getting a license makes no sense as it is not worth their time and they work with great AOR'S as a team ..........i am not going to bother reading half your statements nor researching your background, but since you decided to take a shit on the Ando interview about your failures attributed to others, like a spoiled child......and sure the system has its faults, frankly I am on your side, but post your obscenely long pointless rambling elsewhere....anyway Ando probably had it tougher than both of you combined and did quite well.
Mr. May and Mr. Balkins: when the Pennsylvania AIA published an article in its newsletter 2 or 3 years ago profiling different members' routes to a license, it had to get its non-degreed example from New York because it couldn't come up with anybody who'd done it in PA recently enough to be relevant. I'd say that's about the best evidence you're going to get on the likelihood of getting to a license that way in PA. As for Ando: if he were to get a project in Pittsburgh he would have to partner with a licensed architect, and no he could not identify himself as an architect, as far as PA is concerned.
eeayeeayo,
2 to 3 years ago and AIA may not even know about who got licensed and less what path they took. It isn't that there isn't 1 or 2 applicants in PA pursuing this path once every year or two.
There is a certain degree of truth in that there is very low volume of applicants on this path. I said that earlier. Add to that, the records aren't easy to get. The minutes aren't even available without expensive services.
They can assume those on degreed paths that are their members and so forth. There can also be maybe 10 or less applicants pursuing licensure by non-degree path. It is just that they don't have that many people on that path to licensure.
Not enough for and statistical pool data analysis. Maybe 1-3 get licensed a year. Finding that without published minutes and a lot of guessing is not easy especially if those very architects are not AIA affiliated and they are rather low profile.
That AIA Pennsylvania could be flawed to go off of.
Chris Teeter,
I can name one building designer that rivaled Frank Lloyd Wright and who would be better then 80% of the the architects even today.
The top 20% I leave for fact of good skilled architects and that gets into rough subjective reasoning.
Frankly, I don't know about it being harder for him to get licensed. He got licensed in Japan which still has experience path to licensure. I read the English translated version and its a national licensure at that.
I talked to staff person at Board of Architects in Pennsylvania. Although they could not give out exact numbers, as that isn't readibly available to them, I rephrased the question if there has been in the last year or two, at least one who have applied to take the ARE examination by the experience path that had been approved. The staff person said yes.
Once one passes the exam, they get licensed so it isn't a problem there. There are some but exact numbers are probably low and they get through and AIA doesn't pick up on it. Some of them probably get licensed with some educational credit for academic courses in Architecture like getting a 4-year B.A. or B.S. in Architecture and with 3-4 years of experience plus IDP. Those who get licensed with absolutely no degree is probably a small number and they can get missed in the rather dismal amount of available information.
There are people who do get licensed in PA but I think the numbers are small and the architects as with a lot of architects don't state their degrees on their firm profiles. How would you discern one architect from another. Do they have a degree? Do they not? This isn't really any record keeping on that.
If anyone else wants to double check and follow up an inquiry with them on this and re-ask the important question... go ahead. There number is 717-783-3397
It's published, anyway.
imho this has gone way off track. Legitimacy and talent can't be measured by a license, but by a body of work. Tadao Ando's work speaks for itself. Richard Balkins won't publish any of his own work of any sort, and Will May maintains a website of stock photos, and sketches pilfered from Andersen Windows' site. That's the difference, end of story.
Hey Beaumont,
Retract your comment about pilfered sketches. My website is My work and stock sketches that are public domain. Those stock sketches are no different than the photos of projects of actual buildings that architects take credit for but only do the drawings for.
You folks attack me personally in a public forum. You don't provide Your personal photo and you are basically my competition. You call yourself an architect while my issue is that I'm not being permitted to take the test that would remove all doubt.
In my initial post to Mr. Ando is that I asked why he is no different then me - he does not have a formal education ( I have completed an associate degree in architecture, I have passed the NOCTI for architecture I have taught for 10 years and have roughly 24 years of experience), he did not go thru any form of IDP AND he never took ANY form of the A.R.E. yet, he has been able to use the title of Architect. If you folks have any gripe it should be with an unlicensed person is being permitted to use the title of architect.
I WANT to take the test. I do architecture. So do a lot of people. There are over 130 architectural schools in the U.S. and many more internationally. The fact is that the practice of architecture and the delivery of services is not exclusive to the traditional path. MR. Ando is the perfect example - MY HERO! He PROVES that a formal education, completion of IDP and taking some test is NOT necessary. Yet, You condemn and attack me. How blatantly hypocritical is that?!
And if we accept that license does not legitimize a person then my body of work is a legitimate form of licensure that was paid for by my clients and not subject to any critique from anyone But my clients. If they are satisfied, who are You to judge me. My clients judge me with a paycheck, I'm good with that. Everyone else is of no consequence other than my clients.
Whoa, wait, are you saying that a body of work defines legitimacy to use the title of architect NOT actually getting a formal degree, completion of IDP or passing the A.R.E.? Cool, I totally agree. In that case, I AM an architect by virtue that I have been paid by clients in the delivery of services. I can live with that. Licensure Law excludes Residential so hey, I have no problem with being an RA - Residential Architect. Give me eligibility to take the A.R.E. and when I pass, I'll be able to use the title of PA - Professional Architect.
In fact, let's make the move to use the title of PA - Professional Architect, RA- Residential Architect and Architect. I'd be good with that too.
No I'm not saying a body of work should define whether one can use the title "Architect". That's a protected title. I'm saying a body of work should define whether one is viewed as a competent and/or talented designer.
The sketches on your website of house styles aren't public domain stock images - they're from Andersen Windows' "Home Style Pattern" books and are copyrighted with a bunch of explicit language regarding their use. If you were not aware of this perhaps you should take it up with your web designer.
Chris,
"I could name a dozen "unlicensed" architects who do amazingly well, to the point where getting a license makes no sense as it is not worth their time and they work with great AOR'S as a team ..........".
Name them.
And for the record, I didn't "take a shit" on anyone, I merely asked if Mr. Ando was licensed in the U.S. and if so How did he obtain licensure without a formal degree, no IDP and didn't take the A.R.E..
Why is he not denied? For that matter, how does he escape sanctions for holding himself out as an architect in this country when he clearly did not obtain licensure?
You can ONLY call yourself or HOLD yourself out to be an architect if you either went thru a degree program or by experience AND have completed IDP AND passed the A.R.E..
Mr. Ando didn't do ANY of that for the U.S.. All I'm saying is that I WANT to take the test. Give me the 5 year rolling clock like anyone else. What is so wrong with that?!
Given my real name, it doesn't take any rocket science with Google for my photo as well.
John Yeon (more historical note)
Jim Lucia
and probably a number of others. Will May, you supposedly work for or otherwise part of a company that has certified professional building designers. Such as GLOBE? That residential design firm I saw on Houzz which you are supposedly a contact person. The person looks awfully a lot like your photo on this page with a mustache instead of a beard and has the same bald head, eye brow and eyes. Slightly different facial expression as well between the two photos. In that case, you would also be aware of AIBD and the works of other CPBDs. However, you're not a CPBD (at least not actively... not keeping the certification active????) even though you could possibly qualify for NCBDC certification examination.
However, the issue isn't that. You can find a number of works from some pretty good building designers.
If Tadao Ando got licensed in the U.S., he probably got it in California. Hell man, he could have even been a California Registered Building Designer and then be grandfathered in. Then again, it doesn't matter. He could have been licensed in another state.
Let me explain about the legal scope of architectural title law protection and the licensing board.
They have limitations. They apply to the legal interpretation of the state law by defining precisely who an architect is/isn't for statutory law enforcement and interpretation. They apply to commercial activity such as business marketing. The licensing board can only pursue a person if the activity is such that the services are offered in the state and more particularly for offering to perform architectural services (as defined by state statutes) in connection with architectural projects (not exempted buildings/structures) that are proposed to be located in that state. It isn't about where YOU are. It is about where the project is.
Someone who is licensed in another country such as Japan, is a foreign architect. Tadao Ando is a foreign architect. Japan law allows for licensing without a degree.
As for AIA awarding a foreigner an HONORARY FAIA or whatever... HONORARY then it is because it is for recognizing non-American Architects for their contribution to the Architecture profession world-wide.
John Yeon received an HONORARY AIA membership status. Gold pin... too! He was never a licensed architect. He was a building designer in Oregon. He never had a degree. His work was awesome. At like age 25-27, (something like that) and his first (or one of the his first) commission.... he designed the Watzek House, himself. After his death, he is often referred by people, academia, etc. as an architect.
If you can do high end, comparable work that is even as innovative and ahead of the time as it was for John Yeon when he designed the Watzek House.... maybe, you will be valued the same way.
You're too narrow focused on Pennsylvania and I think that is what is making this harder to understand.
The word architect is not entirely and completely restricted from any form or use. The Architect title is protected in the U.S. states at state level laws and is protected in connection with commercial activity.
Is Tadao Ando holding himself out to clients in the U.S. that he is an architect licensed in the U.S. ?
The licensing board can not restrict a person from saying they have an architect degree. They can not restrict a person from saying they are an architect in another country. They can't. The courts and attorney general (office of state attorney general) legal interpretation. There is enough legal premise that basically says no occupational licensing program can totally restrict common use terms. They can restrict it in commercial application if there is a health, safety or welfare. YES, financial welfare and safety of the public which is the basis of CONSUMER PROTECTION LAWS to protect consumers from FRAUD. It is part of early example of consumer protection.
Are we saying he isn't?
Unless I didn't understand, Mr. Ando IS holding himself out to be an architect anywhere he wants. Maybe I only assume that he is personally using the title. I guess it's possible that others are simply referring to him as an architect. As long as he personally doesn't, hey, cool.
As I have said before, if he is calling himself an architect, then regardless of his body of work, he needs to cease and desist.
But, I believe that he Should be permitted. I'm simply saying that Anyone should be able to take the test. Upon passing, they should be able to use the title of architect. And I'm saying that No one, NO ONE person or group should be able to deny anyone from taking the test.
You may not like the design but if the client is satisfied, then that is all that matters.
There is a difference between him holding himself out as an architect in the U.S. commercially and holding himself as an architect in an interview with a publication where he is an architect SOMEWHERE.
U.S. laws doesn't apply everywhere in the damn world for crying out loud, guys. State laws applies only to a given state's legal jurisdiction.
If I were doing a project in Sweden, for example. I can refer to myself as an Architect. I can even say that EVEN in the United States as part of a thing called freedom of speech. I would have to be clear about where I am an "Architect". Tadao Ando *IS* a JAPAN LICENSED ARCHITECT. He is LICENSED in Japan.
I can't say one way or another about whether or not he is licensed in a state in the U.S. If AIA recognizes him as an Architect then they are recognizing him as a foreign architect. Simple as that.
Unless what I am saying is commercial in nature in association with projects in the U.S. then I can not go about calling myself as an architect in connection with business of architecture & statutorily defined "practice of architecture" for projects in a jurisdiction where I do not have an architect license.
For example, I can't call myself an Architect in connection with any projects in Oregon. I am not licensed as an architect in Oregon. If I practice architecture in connection with projects located in countries where license is not required then I can call myself an Architect in that context.
It isn't that I can't do projects in Sweden such as stock house plans or such. I can do that even while in the Astoria, Oregon and not require a work visa in that country... necessarily because I don't step foot there. It maybe required if I had to do site visits.
That is expected when dealing with International practice of architecture.
Bottom line: The law of Oregon ends at the Oregon border. Oregon as with all states have limited jurisdiction on the Internet. They have to determine if the matters on a website is associated with Oregon or if too ambiguous of locale that someone could misconstrue where the projects are located or where the services are offered.
This is true for any state because they can't assume the whole internet is their domain and jurisdiction. There is a point between enforcing the laws of a protected title (of potentially dubious legality) and that of exceeding legal authority to enforce.
Will May it becomes more apparent the more you post that you believe architecture and drafting are the same thing. Drafting is usually one part of architectural practice - but mastery of drafting is the tip of the iceberg. It also becomes more apparent why you're having such troubles getting your experience recognized by the Board of Architects. Your associate degree isn't in architecture - it's in architectural drafting. NOCTI doesn't offer an assessment of architecture - it offers architectural drafting assessment. You taught AutoCAD and drafting, not architecture. The jobs on your resume - the version linked in this thread anyway - aren't in architecture.
You state that the only thing that matters is the client's satisfaction. What about health, safety, and welfare? The "sample project" on your website doesn't even meet IRC. Client's don't necessarily know that, so they may not know they should be unsatisfied, until a tragedy occurs.
Pretty smug with your observation but you couldn't be more wrong.
I know what architecture is and what drafting is. No need to lecture me.
You're right NOCTI isn't architecture, it is drafting - boy you are smart. Did you go thru that class too or are you surmising what my instructor taught back in 1975? Ah, were you even born yet? Master of Drafting, wow, that's a new one. What mastery are we talking about, running one or more of the numerous cad platforms? WHO CARES?!
What is interesting is the leap you make knowing what I taught, how did you figure that out? Were you one of my students? Doubtful, I would have remembered you.
The jobs weren't architecture, wow, you must be a frigging mind reader - oops, I meant architect.
Again, you have a penchant for self indulgence. What part of my discussion did I state specifically that the only thing that matters is the client's satisfaction? Again you make comments that are simply not true. And what part of "Sample" equals completed work? Man you love to hear yourself talk dude. "Sample" really just means sample - bud, stick to cigars.
Gee, tragedy, yes, hhmm, since 1977, I've never had any instance of any project I've ever been a part of or have personally done ever had any problems. And as far as my clients not knowing, none of my clients have had any problems and considering I did teach for 10 years, I make sure my clients know what they are getting. As far as health, safety and welfare, so far, every project that I have submitted has been reviewed by code officials without problem. So, what about health, safety and welfare? I'd be happy to take you through a course on the subject, I'm fairly sure I could adapt my high school program for you though I'd have to make it easier for you to go thru, you do seem to have a problem with fantasizing things, we'd need to focus you better. But I sometimes did need to dilute information for the challenged kids, so I'm sure I could do it for you too.
The simple fact is that there is no reason why I should be denied the A.R.E.. That test is the only activity that separates me ( or anyone else ) from any architect. Nothing else. Regardless of any body of work or lack there of, is an unbiased examination of my knowledge of architecture that matters - I get a 5 year rolling clock just like the other 17,000+ candidates.
There is nothing apparent about what YOU know about what I learned in any program, what I taught in any program, what my experience has been. And as far as the Board, they are my competition that can say anything about my work because there isn't anything to stop them which is the problem - my competition is controlling the process and preventing me from the only thing that can qualitatively and quantitatively determine my fitness to practice that 17,000 other people are permitted to do - and that is simply wrong.
Again, for the record, let me take the A.R.E that 17,000+ other candidates take using a 5 year rolling clock, you know, the one Mr. Ando Didn't take for licensure for the U.S. market.
It's simple, I get full eligibility to take the test, I pass, I'm good to go, that's all that really matters.
Ok folks, that's it. No more conjecture about what someone thinks they know.
I asked 3 questions that no one could prove or disprove. I'm done trying to defend myself against my competition.
Did Mr. Ando ever complete any actual 5 year professional degree in a U.S. Architectural program or have a number of years of experience under the direct supervision of a licensed architect?
Did he ever participate in IDP and has that been documented in NCARB records?
Did he take the A.R.E. in it's entirety at any point?
Will May,
How hard is it for you to understand that Tadao doesn't even need to have an NAAB accredited degree to be licensed in the United States or even Japan where he practices.
Tado Ando is old enough that he predates IDP. In those days, you could get licensed in California, Oregon, Washington, Arizona, Idaho, and probably all of the rocky mountain states west to the coast documenting only 8 years of employment under an architect. So what the hell, man. Different requirements. Different times.
Who the hell cares. Tadao isn't your competition. You aren't his, either. You are in completely different market sectors, serving different clientele.
First off, people can prove it but at what cost. You are asking for something that will require about $10,000 or more with the 54 NCARB member boards. You are asking for people to do something one to two steps shy of a police investigation. Seriously, man.
Do you know what First and Second-class Kenchikushi or a Mokuzo-Kenchikushi license requirement is?
Tadao is a Kenchikushi. By now, he is 1st class Kenchikushi.
Here is how it works... from the 1998 edition which might have changed since. I am looking for English translation that is more recent. It could be current but I wouldn't assume that.
7+ years to become a second class Kenchikushi or Mokuzo-Kenchikushi. Then 4+ years experience as a 2nd class Kenchikushi. At 2nd class Kenchikushi, you have to pass an exam to become one. Then again for 1st class Kenchikushi.
Lets say this usually takes 12 to 15 or more years by experience to become a 1st class Kenchikushi. Don't you think Tadao's career is long enough to become one.
Forgive me if there is any error in the 2nd class Kenchikushi licensure requirement but it isn't easy read but lets reason to assume it does take some time.
Will May: all the things you imply that I'm assuming and only "think I know" are things that are written in various versions of your resume that are floating around online.
As for your question as to where you stated in your discussion that client satisfaction is all that matters, that was here: "You may not like the design but if the client is satisfied, then that is all that matters."
You're the only one making assumptions here (I was born well before 1975.)
Everything I've stated is from a written source, produced by you - no assumptions at all. If anything I wrote about you is incorrect, it's because you lied about it on your resume.
Directly from your resume;
"Dean Institute of Technology , Pittsburgh, PA. September 1975 - February 1977 Associate Degree – Architectural Drafting"
"Steel Center AVTS, Clairton, PA. January 1990-October 2000. Drafting Instructor.
At Steel Center AVTS I taught CAD related courses. The emphasis was on providing entry level production oriented CAD training."
On all resume versions combined, you list one architectural drafter job in an architecture firm, Wallover Mitchell Bontempo, lasting 7 or 8 months, All of the other jobs listed are drafting in engineering firms and building product companies.
If we are done talking this.... lets get into the topic of Tadao Ando and the interview.
Photo by Kaori Walter, © Archinect
I can easily point to Tadao Ando's work as one of my earliest sources of inspiration, pulling me toward a life embedded in architecture. The powerful simplicity of his forms has always seemed to me, to represent an understanding far greater than that of the built environment alone. A few weeks ago, we had a rare opportunity to meet and talk with the master, thanks to a generous offer from Cal Poly Pomona and Axel Schmitzberger, during Ando's brief visit to Los Angeles to collect his 2012 Richard Neutra Award. So, Orhan, Alex, Kaori and I headed out to Neutra's VDL House in Silver Lake, on a chilly afternoon in late March, for a brief, yet memorable, chat.
Orhan Ayyüce
I met you 25 years ago at Morphosis' office while you were visiting LA doing lectures. I'd like to ask you about the changes you've noticed in Los Angeles since that time.
Tadao Ando
The first time I came to LA was in 1975. Since then the world has moved very quickly. The environment has changed so much as well. The mentality, or thinking, of the architects here has not changed much compared to the rate of environmental change.
OA
Can you describe this more? The architects of that period believed they were doing groundbreaking work. Do you still think this is true?
TA
What I see, as opposed to the 1950's, when we look at the case study houses, part of the California architecture was the promise of a new lifestyle. The architecture was trying to accommodate, or relate, to this new lifestyle for that generation. This seems to have gradually changed to a search for form for expression by itself. Now, I see more architecture that relates to the business of architecture. In this sense, it seems like the focus of trying to define what living in our time should be like, is not as strong as it used to be back in the '50's.
OA
In the 50's the economic conditions were completely different. We are in a completely different era. We have a very definite difference between income levels, so there's some kind of political nervousness, and architects can no longer separate themselves from the nervousness so they have to respond to social issues in addition to architectural or urban issues. So, I was wondering if you have any thoughts about the architect's role of being a social leader in changing the environment or what they can do at the urban scale.
TA
For me, going back to what we were talking about before, it's a problem not unique to Los Angeles. It's a problem we all share regarding natural resources and the environment. Not too long ago, we were a planet of 3 billion people. Now we have 7.7 billion people. We'll quickly have 10 billion. Because of that, it's very difficult to not always think about how to use the resources available to us. In the sense of the gap you mentioned, it leads to something we need need to address, whether you're rich or poor. As a design profession, we need to make it very clear what our position is, in the global situation that we're facing. How do we intelligently address the problem that faces everyone, about material resources? And how do we lead society to think that it is something we have to address, rather than just following the business driven goals of each project? It's important that within each of our work that we think about how we use materials, and how energy can be used in a way that it creates a meaningful message for people that live in the building. How the importance of the environment can be perceived by the experience of the architecture.
The way that architects think about their work is still the same. There's no change or shift in focus in the way architects address available resources and energy use. It's important for young architects to begin thinking about this.
Photo by Kaori Walter, © Archinect
OA
Are you doing any work, in your own office, that embodies the principals you just talked about?
TA
For me, what I'm trying to do, is try to make people think about these issues. I'm not in a position to tell people what to do. I want people to realize the potential and the problem. For example, in my work, whether it is an art museum or other type of project, I try to put nature as the focus of the message. As a person looks at a space I design, they may question their own existence as it relates to the space, but they are still looking at the architecture in relationship to the natural context.
I look at art - whether it's art, music, film, architecture - as a way to look for inspiration. To make a thing about other things. So, in that same way, I try to make people think about other things in my own work. For example, on the flight here, I was watching the movie "Iron Lady" starring Meryl Streep, portraying Margaret Thatcher in her later years. I was watching Meryl Streep, as an actress - an artist portraying a role - but at the same time, I was thinking about the life and decisions of Margaret Thatcher. In a similar way, in my own work, I try to embed a message that the users can take away with them and use in their own way.
Another example is when I was in Malibu this morning, at my construction site, there was a group of sea lions, and this made me realize that I was not alone in this environment. They are using this same environment.
Paul Petrunia
The business of architecture is in a state of crisis right now. There are many young architects and students that are questioning their role because it is so difficult to find work. Do you have any advice for young architects that are struggling to find new ways to apply their architectural skills and experience?
TA
For me, I think architecture is one of the best professions for society. How many careers can you find that can combine structure and composition of space; while working with specialists in may different fields to create a work of architecture. These skills don't limit themselves to just buildings. We have learned to coordinate and collaborate with many different people to create great things. There are few other professions that rely on one person to coordinate these types of important projects for society. The architect's skills are beneficial to society in so many ways, and that leads us to think about how our creative, managerial and coordination skills can be applied to other fields.
We don't work in a vacuum. We compose, put everything together, while working with a lot of people. There is a lot of excitement and inspiration that comes from interacting and working with so many people. We need to be able to use this practice in a way that extends the profession of architecture into other areas. There are always times of recession and hardship, so we need to understand this greater skill that architecture provides us.
And for me, personally, the hope and the dream is not something you can receive from someone. It's important to start from within. You can't wait for something to happen. This is the approach I've always taken. Look at me - I'm doing well... I didn't study architecture in school. I didn't graduate from university. I started with a big disadvantage.
OA
So you're not going back to boxing?
(laughs all around)
TA
I'm still boxing!
OA
I was watching a documentary online about you on the internet. It was in Japanese, so I couldn't understand a word. There was a scene in the video showing you with a megaphone in your hand, speaking to about 200 hundred workers at a construction site. This scene made me very emotional. I could see that you have a talent for connecting with people.
TA
As we all know, you can't make architecture by yourself. An architect needs to make everyone take ownership for the work. To be successful, you need to ensure that every carpenter, plumber, and so on, in every project, is doing their own project. Every time I go to the construction site, I try to take a photograph of every worker. It's a symbol that we're all working together with a shared goal. It's very important for me that everyone feels that way.
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Quoted and re-posted to remind ourselves the topic to get back to. One or two pages is enough tangent. Lets try to make page 3 about Tadao.
good call Balkins.....sophomore year at Kansas with Prof. Grabow, some guy purchased a Tadao Ando book (1998+/-). at the crit a juror noted "there is a theme in this studio, its very much minimal, concrete, maybe Japanese?"............to which the kid I remember from Chicago who was babysat by some famous actress....i want to say the actress in the movie Pretty Woman....anyway he said "I bought an Ando book!".........the crit was a great one after that, each juror stating we had either copied without interpretation or actually GOT Ando correctly...and i want to say Prof. Farnen (hope i got that right) went off on a lengthy explanation to how and why Ando's concrete had the holes in it. He also taught me something I had only slightly realized after he spoke.....JFK in Berlin, DE built probably late 60's or early 70's, as a 10 year old I marveled at what looked like boards of wood in the concrete......the Japanese apparently will choose the type of wood. as Farnan might of said, formwork worth more than $10k sf, I thought marble.....the Japenese choose the wood for the formwork and then they would proudly sand the concrete smooth as if it was marble. blew my mind.......recently Janos Spitzer, most knowledeable flooring guy in NYC gave me a quick lesson on grains and quality. i mean that is serious to choose a perfect piece of wood to leave its mark in a crude material such as concrete.........like any serious architect i like mountains,but i am at the beach in ocean city, md with wife and kids, knocked a few burley oak Kolsch beers off at a fine beach establishment, now to avoiding the waves and sand - The Autopoiesis of Architecture - schumacher....
back at the hotel room, beach to boardwalk interlude....ode to Ando
(the kids won't let me watch College Football, what happened to Stanford?!?)
i'd say you can't plan moments like that, but it appears Ando did.
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