I don't have sound on the company machine, so I am unable to view this bizarre moment. Has anybody been following this that has a take what he's actually saying?
talk about what you want. i'm just curious of what people think, regarding his speech, the visit, them allowing him to speak, whatever. sorry for the one liner intro; i'm totally swamped. it seemed like an important current event.
regardless of what one might think of him, he is the leader of a nation which is key in the future of the middle east, and so whatever he has to say must be listened to.
we just switched it on.
right now he's talking about science as "the greatest gift from god".
I am at Columbia, theres a large group of students outside watching the telecast of the event. Bollinger's intro speech was very direct. What do you guys think about it? It was interesting, there was applause after mahmoud replied
"At the outset, I want to complain a bit about the person who read this political statement against me. In Iran, tradition requires that when we invite a person to be a speaker, we actually respect our students and the professors by allowing them to make their own judgment and we don’t think it’s necessary before the speech is even given to come in with a series of claims…”
yes and no, cris. one, he can be listened to from his own office in tehran or whatever just as easily and two, i firmly believe he'll clean up his craziness and most extremist views while here, so we're not really getting an accurate portrayal of the man while he's speaking in our country.
since there is to anyone, i hope, no irony lost on the fact that one of our alleged most exemplary institutions of tolerance, acceptance, and free speech and thought is hosting one of the most outspoken intolerant, racist, and close-minded nationalists out there (not that i'm necessarily disagreeing with that) i hope and pray that these kids are given a chance to call him out and ask him to his face in the same room ...if i'm a proud and free jewish person, a homosexual, Christian, whatever, at this school would you want to wipe me off the face of the earth right now and why.. cause, in any other forum the answer would seemingly be yes. otherwise this is just a waste of all of our time.
Iran is perplexing, and Ahmadinejad is a stellar example of of the conflicts that his country faces. Sometimes he sounds completely coherent, even rational, and then he will turn around and talk about how the Holocaust didn't happen. I kind of have to question why they would invite the guy to speak and then give him such a blistering and insolent introduction....it just seems weird to me. Is Columbia's president suddenly trying to formulate foreign policy on his own? Why in the world is he even there?
it is interesting that fox news has been bashing columbia for the past several days for allowing the president of iran to speak in the context of cancelling the latest forum by the so-called minutemen. the minutemen thing has been taken off of their introduction, no doubt it was there to spark the angry forum that follows which is no longer being added to. however, they have still failed to mention the president of columbia's introduction.
well, again, for all the Iran-bashers out there, be aware that its us who are public enemies no.1 in the face of most of the world. Does that mean our dignitaries dont get invited to talk at other venues? no.
Like him or not, he will have some interesting viewpoints. Dont listen to it if you dont want to.
sameold, thanks.....I guess that question was a bit vague, but I was referring to the fact that Columbia's president gave him a tongue-lashing in the introduction. As in, why is even there - if the University president doesn't even appear to want him there? So who invited him?
bollinger's introduction was as disrespectful as that tool pelley from 60 minutes, where i walked away wondering why the media never bothers to question bush on such a level.
and futher more, the 60 minute questions were even provided by the white house. i don't agree w/ Ahmadinejad's views, but he came out looking like more of a statesman than bush by a longshot.
i don't know that he came out looking like a statesman. the fact of the matter is, even with the disrespect he was given prior to the forum, he was allowed to speak, which is a form of respect unto itself. i highly doubt any american president is ever going to be invited to speak anytime soon at the university of tehran, which is probably more disrespectful than something anyone can say.
@ puddles,
actually that was the thinking of Arab intellectuals from way back,
which is why while the christians were burning people at the stake for alchemy etc (Think Middle Ages)
The arbs were preserving and expanding upon Classical (Western read Greek and Roman) philosophy and science
@ puddles,
actually that was the thinking of Arab intellectuals from way back,
which is why while the christians were burning people at the stake for alchemy etc (Think Middle Ages)
The arbs were preserving and expanding upon Classical (Western read Greek and Roman) philosophy and science
making evaluations, accusations, moral judgments and static labeling are all very tragic methods of communication that i have seen come from many Americans on this topic.
I challenge the holocaust too because i had family who were killed and it was over politics of not being German right wing fascist. Real research does need to go into this event so it does not happen again, like it is in israel, sudan and iraq all with US tax money.
privilege and power always being abused, but as soon as you go calling names rather than expressing your feelings and needs you are lost.
yeah but iran is putting money into it to question whether or not it happened, not to gain a greater understanding of what happened. so how does the questioning of the iranian president serve the memory of your lost family members?
be aware that its us who are public enemies no.1 in the face of most of the world
errrr.. its not that i'm disagreeing with the general idea your making but i wish blanket statements, ellusive ones, which i'm pretty sure you have no backup information to validate, didn't accompany your opinion. your right that we do (i assume you mean the US) visit and speak in countries that have a less than favorable opinion of us, but i can't name a country out there that doesn't like us because we literally stated that we want to blow one of their primary allies, and if the lines were read in between, them as well (ideally) off the face of the earth... can you?... he's our enemy plain and simple. we don't dislike him because of a disagreement on he or his country's general foreign policy and relations we dislike him because he'd like to see us and our allies destroyed from existence whether by his own hand or not.
let him speak as long as that fact stated above always be known to him the whole time he's here and as he's being shipped back.
Fidel is a hero for standing up the the oil giants and winning, i wish him well in his battle with illness it was nice to see him on www.democracynow.org today.
it's not about race either(as we all share DNA by 99.9%).. it's about access to energy and resources, just because some white people now and then get it into their head they were 'better'
I would say he is a ally to the American citizen more than bush is because he is probably the last chance to stop bush's expanded war in the mid east.
real challenges face ALL the people of earth and those are more about containing and restraining a environment we are deteriorating fast for ALL of our own future existences and generations to come.
le bossman, that's the kind of moderating all threads should have, I totally agree with your comments
I just see the whole issue as self-serving on all parts - bollinger comes out as a hero who challenges the iranian president in a historical moment, Columbia comes out as a bias free, open to debate institution, while the what's his name barks his inept views and goes back to Iran with a free PR campaign. And everyone is a hero.
where does mis-education, manufactured consent and hoodwinking fall into this as far as the ignorance of some westerners 'opinions' is concerned in forming bigotry?
Iran got free of dictatorial rule by a usa imposed leader The Sha, I commend them because i know how much of a role usa has had in destabilizing the mid east for a long long time now.
just listen to 1 sentence of Condi's double speak, did she go to school for that?
Man some of you cats lean far to the left. All I'm gonna say is this, Iran does sponsor terrorism, then again so does the United States (just go ask a Nicaraguan about the contra rebels, or a Palestinian about Israel). The United States is a war-mongering nuclear superpower, Iran wants to be a war mongering nuclear superpower.
Oh, and Condi dear, if you're reading this I'd like to ask whose the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the Middle east? Oh, I'm sorry, do you say Saudi Arabia? That's what i thought. Sheesh, Iran throws some money and rockets at Hezbollah and Iraqi shia sects. Sects of the Saudi power structure have been known to back fund every other islamist terrorist sect from Morocco to Indonesia.
meta, mea culpa.
yes there is some great stuff in that work.
maybe i am being overly sensetive with all this trial and conviction by bundles stuff flying around.
How much did they pay him to come and lecture? Did the money come out of the Columbia General Fund.....this can be a slippery slidy slope when doors are opened.
When I was at University as some would say, I had a house mate from Iran as was his wife. He was a bugger about everything and his wife was the nicest flower on the earth. He was burning up inside about everything.....someday he will most likely be running the country and for her I have regrets.
All Iran is doing is publicly giving the US a big fat "Fuck You" that it deserves. So I see nothing wrong with it in the least especially when it comes to our idiotic foreign policy.
I think its critical that people at least attempt to listen to Ahmadinejad's talk with as open a mind as possible. Clearly there are MANY things that i very DEEPLY disagree with. But its critical that we all make up our own minds and stop allowing the administration and the government officials WE elect to make up our minds for us. Just because we vote and elect politicians doesn't mean we can allow them to think for us.
Well when it comes to the Middle East, American policy makers are little more than mental midgets who are simply incapable of understanding the Arab/Islamic world. Just about everything we stand for in the Middle East is inherently flawed, fundamentally unjust, and systematically oppressive.
Democracy has never been an interest to us -- otherwise we would be pressuring the oppressive absolute monarchy and terrorist supporting dictatorship Saudi Arabia to reform itself. However we have "conveniently" decided to side with them and consequently what they stand for -- otherwise we wouldn't be protecting them. I'm sure most of your thoughspans don't go beyond a decade or so but, do you remember the last time a Middle Eastern nation tried to democratize using a popular election? It was Algeria and in 1991 and when the party with "God-forbid" Islamic roots started to win, George Bush then demanded from then Algerian president Chadli Benjadid to cancel the election all together. They did, Benjadid had to go into hiding, Mohamad Boudiaf was assassinated, and then all hell broke lose. Another example? The assassination of Iraq President Abdel Kareem Qassem, the re installment of the absolute monarchs of Kuwait,
As for Iran, say what you want to about Ahmedinajad. I don't agree with his ways either, but all the Holocaust Denial that most of you seem to lose your shit over is just smoke that he is blowing up America's ass. He knows that the Holocaust happened (Hell he said it himself), but when his large 70-million strong nation is constantly being threatened by both the United States and Israel, he has to be able to defend his country and his people by any means necessary.
I personally feel far more uncomfortable knowing that Israel is the only nation in the Middle East with Nukes. I mean after all, are they not the bellicose nation who illegally occupies a nation in which 4 million civilians are subjugated each day? Obviously Israel will not dismantle it's Nukes, but there has to be another nation with equally miliary power to counterbalance Israel -- whether it's Egypt or Iran.
Iran's leader speaks
I don't have sound on the company machine, so I am unable to view this bizarre moment. Has anybody been following this that has a take what he's actually saying?
he would be Time man of the year now if they didn't pull the plug and make it YOU.
i say we give our full support to him speaking and to him stopping the man oil mens war for profit and exploitation.
are you talking about something specific, bossman, or just the visit in general?
talk about what you want. i'm just curious of what people think, regarding his speech, the visit, them allowing him to speak, whatever. sorry for the one liner intro; i'm totally swamped. it seemed like an important current event.
regardless of what one might think of him, he is the leader of a nation which is key in the future of the middle east, and so whatever he has to say must be listened to.
we just switched it on.
right now he's talking about science as "the greatest gift from god".
he thinks science is a gift from god...what a moron
I am at Columbia, theres a large group of students outside watching the telecast of the event. Bollinger's intro speech was very direct. What do you guys think about it? It was interesting, there was applause after mahmoud replied
"At the outset, I want to complain a bit about the person who read this political statement against me. In Iran, tradition requires that when we invite a person to be a speaker, we actually respect our students and the professors by allowing them to make their own judgment and we don’t think it’s necessary before the speech is even given to come in with a series of claims…”
I think it is fine. Is Iran really an evil country...no less evil that the US or Isreal
yes and no, cris. one, he can be listened to from his own office in tehran or whatever just as easily and two, i firmly believe he'll clean up his craziness and most extremist views while here, so we're not really getting an accurate portrayal of the man while he's speaking in our country.
since there is to anyone, i hope, no irony lost on the fact that one of our alleged most exemplary institutions of tolerance, acceptance, and free speech and thought is hosting one of the most outspoken intolerant, racist, and close-minded nationalists out there (not that i'm necessarily disagreeing with that) i hope and pray that these kids are given a chance to call him out and ask him to his face in the same room ...if i'm a proud and free jewish person, a homosexual, Christian, whatever, at this school would you want to wipe me off the face of the earth right now and why.. cause, in any other forum the answer would seemingly be yes. otherwise this is just a waste of all of our time.
ha ha ha, he's saying that they don't have homosexuals in iran. that the "homosexual phenomenon" doesn't exist in iran like it does in the u.s.
Become a Muslim or die.
yeah, idle hands, i won't disagree with that.
Iran is perplexing, and Ahmadinejad is a stellar example of of the conflicts that his country faces. Sometimes he sounds completely coherent, even rational, and then he will turn around and talk about how the Holocaust didn't happen. I kind of have to question why they would invite the guy to speak and then give him such a blistering and insolent introduction....it just seems weird to me. Is Columbia's president suddenly trying to formulate foreign policy on his own? Why in the world is he even there?
I love Beverly Hills
it is interesting that fox news has been bashing columbia for the past several days for allowing the president of iran to speak in the context of cancelling the latest forum by the so-called minutemen. the minutemen thing has been taken off of their introduction, no doubt it was there to spark the angry forum that follows which is no longer being added to. however, they have still failed to mention the president of columbia's introduction.
bollinger is a playa...i wouldn't be surpised if he tried running for president. but at least he a fan of architecture
Ahmadinejad's a puppet, just like dear ol' W.
Isn't this the same guy that says Israel should be wiped off the map and that the holocaust never happened?
Columbia has set themselves up like Finland following the "my enemy's enemy is my friend" path.
Just because Ahmadinejad hates George W. Bush does not make him legitimate and worth listening to.
Will there be any Columbia students getting tazed at this event? That might be fun to watch...
"Why in the world is he even there?"
well, again, for all the Iran-bashers out there, be aware that its us who are public enemies no.1 in the face of most of the world. Does that mean our dignitaries dont get invited to talk at other venues? no.
Like him or not, he will have some interesting viewpoints. Dont listen to it if you dont want to.
sameold, thanks.....I guess that question was a bit vague, but I was referring to the fact that Columbia's president gave him a tongue-lashing in the introduction. As in, why is even there - if the University president doesn't even appear to want him there? So who invited him?
some other views, including Brian Lehrer's thoughts on the visit and talk at Columbia, in the news...
bomb bomb bomb! bomb bomb iran!
bollinger's introduction was as disrespectful as that tool pelley from 60 minutes, where i walked away wondering why the media never bothers to question bush on such a level.
and futher more, the 60 minute questions were even provided by the white house. i don't agree w/ Ahmadinejad's views, but he came out looking like more of a statesman than bush by a longshot.
i don't know that he came out looking like a statesman. the fact of the matter is, even with the disrespect he was given prior to the forum, he was allowed to speak, which is a form of respect unto itself. i highly doubt any american president is ever going to be invited to speak anytime soon at the university of tehran, which is probably more disrespectful than something anyone can say.
archinect should invite ahmadinejad for some serious architecture discussions...or has he already been banned here?
@ puddles,
actually that was the thinking of Arab intellectuals from way back,
which is why while the christians were burning people at the stake for alchemy etc (Think Middle Ages)
The arbs were preserving and expanding upon Classical (Western read Greek and Roman) philosophy and science
@ puddles,
actually that was the thinking of Arab intellectuals from way back,
which is why while the christians were burning people at the stake for alchemy etc (Think Middle Ages)
The arbs were preserving and expanding upon Classical (Western read Greek and Roman) philosophy and science
making evaluations, accusations, moral judgments and static labeling are all very tragic methods of communication that i have seen come from many Americans on this topic.
I challenge the holocaust too because i had family who were killed and it was over politics of not being German right wing fascist. Real research does need to go into this event so it does not happen again, like it is in israel, sudan and iraq all with US tax money.
privilege and power always being abused, but as soon as you go calling names rather than expressing your feelings and needs you are lost.
yeah but iran is putting money into it to question whether or not it happened, not to gain a greater understanding of what happened. so how does the questioning of the iranian president serve the memory of your lost family members?
errrr.. its not that i'm disagreeing with the general idea your making but i wish blanket statements, ellusive ones, which i'm pretty sure you have no backup information to validate, didn't accompany your opinion. your right that we do (i assume you mean the US) visit and speak in countries that have a less than favorable opinion of us, but i can't name a country out there that doesn't like us because we literally stated that we want to blow one of their primary allies, and if the lines were read in between, them as well (ideally) off the face of the earth... can you?... he's our enemy plain and simple. we don't dislike him because of a disagreement on he or his country's general foreign policy and relations we dislike him because he'd like to see us and our allies destroyed from existence whether by his own hand or not.
let him speak as long as that fact stated above always be known to him the whole time he's here and as he's being shipped back.
sectarianism and divisions aside he is no enemy is is more of a ally to the people of united states than their own leaders
can you elaborate, Antis?
I agree with Anti...I also like my boy Hugo
bush is for all the white kids in america who feel threatned by a changin' america
Fidel is a hero for standing up the the oil giants and winning, i wish him well in his battle with illness it was nice to see him on www.democracynow.org today.
it's not about race either(as we all share DNA by 99.9%).. it's about access to energy and resources, just because some white people now and then get it into their head they were 'better'
I would say he is a ally to the American citizen more than bush is because he is probably the last chance to stop bush's expanded war in the mid east.
real challenges face ALL the people of earth and those are more about containing and restraining a environment we are deteriorating fast for ALL of our own future existences and generations to come.
I dont blame him for being pissed at Isreal, btw...
le bossman, that's the kind of moderating all threads should have, I totally agree with your comments
I just see the whole issue as self-serving on all parts - bollinger comes out as a hero who challenges the iranian president in a historical moment, Columbia comes out as a bias free, open to debate institution, while the what's his name barks his inept views and goes back to Iran with a free PR campaign. And everyone is a hero.
This is probably my favorite quote directed to Ahmadinejad from Bollinger:
You are either brazenly provocative or astonishingly uneducated.
where does mis-education, manufactured consent and hoodwinking fall into this as far as the ignorance of some westerners 'opinions' is concerned in forming bigotry?
Iran got free of dictatorial rule by a usa imposed leader The Sha, I commend them because i know how much of a role usa has had in destabilizing the mid east for a long long time now.
just listen to 1 sentence of Condi's double speak, did she go to school for that?
puhlees meta...
the man gave rubaiyat to world heritage...
Man some of you cats lean far to the left. All I'm gonna say is this, Iran does sponsor terrorism, then again so does the United States (just go ask a Nicaraguan about the contra rebels, or a Palestinian about Israel). The United States is a war-mongering nuclear superpower, Iran wants to be a war mongering nuclear superpower.
Oh, and Condi dear, if you're reading this I'd like to ask whose the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the Middle east? Oh, I'm sorry, do you say Saudi Arabia? That's what i thought. Sheesh, Iran throws some money and rockets at Hezbollah and Iraqi shia sects. Sects of the Saudi power structure have been known to back fund every other islamist terrorist sect from Morocco to Indonesia.
meta, mea culpa.
yes there is some great stuff in that work.
maybe i am being overly sensetive with all this trial and conviction by bundles stuff flying around.
How much did they pay him to come and lecture? Did the money come out of the Columbia General Fund.....this can be a slippery slidy slope when doors are opened.
When I was at University as some would say, I had a house mate from Iran as was his wife. He was a bugger about everything and his wife was the nicest flower on the earth. He was burning up inside about everything.....someday he will most likely be running the country and for her I have regrets.
All Iran is doing is publicly giving the US a big fat "Fuck You" that it deserves. So I see nothing wrong with it in the least especially when it comes to our idiotic foreign policy.
could you please elaborate?
did anybody watch charlie rose last night?
i fell asleep, but i recorded it.
Bossman, you talking to me?
yes, archmed i am talking to you
I think its critical that people at least attempt to listen to Ahmadinejad's talk with as open a mind as possible. Clearly there are MANY things that i very DEEPLY disagree with. But its critical that we all make up our own minds and stop allowing the administration and the government officials WE elect to make up our minds for us. Just because we vote and elect politicians doesn't mean we can allow them to think for us.
Well when it comes to the Middle East, American policy makers are little more than mental midgets who are simply incapable of understanding the Arab/Islamic world. Just about everything we stand for in the Middle East is inherently flawed, fundamentally unjust, and systematically oppressive.
Democracy has never been an interest to us -- otherwise we would be pressuring the oppressive absolute monarchy and terrorist supporting dictatorship Saudi Arabia to reform itself. However we have "conveniently" decided to side with them and consequently what they stand for -- otherwise we wouldn't be protecting them. I'm sure most of your thoughspans don't go beyond a decade or so but, do you remember the last time a Middle Eastern nation tried to democratize using a popular election? It was Algeria and in 1991 and when the party with "God-forbid" Islamic roots started to win, George Bush then demanded from then Algerian president Chadli Benjadid to cancel the election all together. They did, Benjadid had to go into hiding, Mohamad Boudiaf was assassinated, and then all hell broke lose. Another example? The assassination of Iraq President Abdel Kareem Qassem, the re installment of the absolute monarchs of Kuwait,
As for Iran, say what you want to about Ahmedinajad. I don't agree with his ways either, but all the Holocaust Denial that most of you seem to lose your shit over is just smoke that he is blowing up America's ass. He knows that the Holocaust happened (Hell he said it himself), but when his large 70-million strong nation is constantly being threatened by both the United States and Israel, he has to be able to defend his country and his people by any means necessary.
I personally feel far more uncomfortable knowing that Israel is the only nation in the Middle East with Nukes. I mean after all, are they not the bellicose nation who illegally occupies a nation in which 4 million civilians are subjugated each day? Obviously Israel will not dismantle it's Nukes, but there has to be another nation with equally miliary power to counterbalance Israel -- whether it's Egypt or Iran.
PART 2 of 4
PART 3 of 4
PART 4 of 4
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.