so, farmer, should we pull an 'atlas shrugged' on 'em?: all the architects move to a place by ourselves and let everyone else survive without us? then they'd see how much they needed us...
futility is just a cynical pose. if your life was really futile you wd end it. and please don't do that. nature abhors a vacuum: meaning will always have a way of creeping in. architecture does not need to be 'art' but it can still fill the vacuum, some way or other.
I think we all, as architects, feel that our lives lose meaning without architecture. I'm just not sure if it's fair to expect everyone else to feel the same way.
"...Did you know that you have big things to accomplish in life? And did you know that those big things are getting rather dusty while you pour yourself another cup of coffee, and decide to mull things over rather than do them? We were all born with a gift to give in life, one which informs all of our desires, interests, passions and curiosities....We’re here to put a dent in the universe. Otherwise why else even be here?"
There are other reasons we are here Steve, but you're on the right track..
metamechanic - nietzsche was a godless psycho like the rest of the french revolution whinos that inspired all the other godless whinos in history: Marx, Althusser, Fish, Lacan, Sausser....Derrida....BLAH BLAH BLAH....Zedong....who either went on to inspire godless socialists or godless totalitarian leaders.
The truth is, ther IS a Creator. There IS a God. There ARE purposes to mankind.
gods come and go, but the temple lives on. this is why architecture is a more important discipline that theology, and why, although we can live without god, we cannot live without architecture.
that comes out sounding awfully pompous, doesn't it? sorry.
Some want a Decider. Some trust themselves, and their fellow man, to decide -- to make laws and govern themselves.
Some are happy with an "accidental" universe, or one with its inherent logic
and order. Some want a Greater Power.
Aren't Happy and Trust better than Want ?
The real question is, why ? Why are there two diametrically-opposed views of the universe ? Why do some believe one thing, some another ? How did this come to pass ?
"...nietzsche was Swiss.
Marx was german....etc..."
Yes, that wasn't my point. All of these guys are a springboard off of each others' ideas. The atheistic creations of the French Revolution is one of the backdrops.
"...the only one whining is you, does your life really suck that much? "
Who said I was whining, I was responding to a "life without architecture is futile" so maybe that guy has a chip on his shoulder. I'm saying that architecture isn't the center of my life and life is more than a career..and since you asked, my life is amazing, thank you.
"....wouldn't god be an atheist and i'm pretty sure based on christian standards god is a socialist. god is definetly a totalitarian leader as well...that shit he did to lucifer, not very socialist, but very totalitarian..."
There are rules. This has to do with justice. God would cease to be God if he did not enforce the rules. The rules protect us. And as far as your war in heaven perspective, this is not accurate. Satan is the totalitarian / socialist as Satan operates on force. God operates on agency. God gives us the choice, to see if we choose to follow his commandments. We are responsible for the consequences.
"...futurist, what kind of desperate person hi-jacks a thread about life being futile without architecture....to preach about their insecurities with existence and their apparent fix..."
Funny how you see things. Look over the flow of the thread. I responded to your paragraphs because they reminded me of the drivel from my card-carying-commie professors long ago...
"...you have god, some people have beer. futurist so which god is yours? just curious. "
There is only ONE true God. But I will not walk into this...to allow you (or others) to attack my faith. These forums are anything but tolerant, notwithstanding the supposedly liberal leanings of many here. I've come to find this hypocrisy common in leftist circles..,they are tolerant of anything and anyone BUT Christian, God-believing, conservative views.
Day after day I must face a world of strangers
Where I don't belong, I'm not that strong
It's nice to know that there's someone I can turn to
Who will always care, you're always there
When there's no getting over that rainbow
When my smallest of dreams won't come true
I can take all the madness the world has to give
But I won't last a day without you
So many times when the city seems to be without a friendly face
A lonely place
It's nice to know that you'll be there if I need you
And you'll always smile, it's all worthwhile
When there's no getting over that rainbow
When my smallest of dreams won't come true
I can take all the madness the world has to give
But I won't last a day without you
Touch me and I end up singing
Troubles seem to up and disappear
You touch me with the love you're bringing
I can't really lose when you're near
If all my friends have forgotten half their promises
They're not unkind, just hard to find
One look at you and I know that I could learn to live
Without the rest, I found the best
When there's no getting over that rainbow
When my smallest of dreams won't come true
I can take all the madness the world has to give
But I won't last a day without you
When there's no getting over that rainbow
When my smallest of dreams won't come true
I can take all the madness the world has to give
But I won't last a day without you
there is such a thing, i think, as an american god. i think this god - futurist's "one true god" - has a lot of influence on contemporary american culture, certainly more influence than architecture.
this god is important. so important, in fact, that my wife and i feel pretty strongly that our daughters need to learn about this god, and the associated bible stories, morals, and rules that come with this god, so that they can be sufficiently grounded in our own american mythology - it's part of contemporary cultural literacy.
BUT i'd argue that architecture is actually older - more eternal - than this american god (which certainly doesn't really resemble the god of the middle ages, the god of early israel, or the god of the renaissance very much). a love for architecture and the desire to improve the world through physical acts has done more good than any belief in a god future or past.
I always felt like architecture was an "extension" of my truer sense of purporse . When I began studying scared geometry and the humanities at like 16, I started to develop a stronger repertoire with Architcture than as a career choice. If there was no profession called Architect, I would still be doing this work. There is a whole esoteric level to discovery of form and to many "verbs" that surround it, just as there is a whole esoteric nature to the human form itself
Personally, i think calling someone an Architect , when all they do is formulaic trend following and standardized material selection amidts a predetermined capitalist corporeal body is an exaggeration of the term of Architect.
I see a truer architect as someone who is constantly mining for deeper paths was of negotiating environment with the personal life development. I think most of us are Construction Coordinators more so than Architects. ..but thats the tilte society has given us, and so many wear it without so much as a peak at the inner life of form.
Steven
Thats is very distinct way to deal with it. You love your children, so you allow the "contemporary cultural literacy" to develop in them, all the while keeping a grander question in mind. Refreshing!,... as most seem to think a "unified theory of faith" (or shoudl i say "fairy tale")
applies to all.
Meta - while I pretty much don't agree with your existential ideologies I do agree with your statement about the Bible
another thing you're probably not aware of, since you sound like the typical "jesus freak who never read his bible" is that the old testament, especially the first 5 books, were written in ancient Hebrew with a vocab of 4,000 words. the new testament, basically written by Jews for Jesus was written in Greek. I highly doubt you like i can read either of those languages fluently, hence turning both you and i's interpretation of the origin of the universe into an art debate, like looking at an Andy Warhol painting going -"no man, god really did create the world in 7 days..." and the other "no dude, 7 days for god is like 1000 years man..." How true that is. So many things have been mistranslated, misinterpreted, and even for that matter out and out copied wrong. Gotta love Luther and his Humanist friends.
Devils Advocate view - Without architecture, life IS futile, but life can go on without architects. They'd just hire developers and engineers to do our jobs. Sad but true.
Meta rocks. With these views one has a chance to see the universe as it is, and to find one's true place within it. Isn't the truth worth more than a little discomfort ? And isn't architecture, properly conceived, really a manifestation of Truth ?
" If there was no profession called Architect, I would still be doing this work. "
"During the past four decades," Jacoby writes, "America's endemic anti-intellectual tendencies have been grievously exacerbated by a new species of semiconscious anti-rationalism, feeding on and fed by an ignorant popular culture of video images and unremitting noise that leaves no room for contemplation or logic."
I linked to Jacoby and quoted her because I was just introduced last night, via Bill Moyers's PBS "Journal." She's ugly as sin and brilliant. Did you know that only 23% of American kids with two years of college could find four principal mideast nations, on a map that had the countries labeled ? The number for high school graduates: 6%. One in five Americans think the sun revolves around the earth. Do we really need Creationism to further pollute the education system ?
The program ended with a clip form a quiz show, with the attractive but clueless young contestant saying she didn't know where Hungary was, and after being told said "but I thought Europe WAS a country " -- and the host saying "Hungry -- yeah, you know, like hungry ?". . .
I love those analogies. "What would Jesus do" is a sword that cuts both ways. The tragedy is that men take the words and work of others and pervert it to their own ends. What fundamentalism and political conservatism have in common, perhaps, is fear -- fear of connection, of generosity and humility, of "giving it all up in order to have it all," to paraphrase another bit of scripture.
Living "naked" in the world is the greatest blessing, once found. Don't we trust ourselves, and each other, to make reasonable rules to live by ? Don't we have an innate conscience that gives us those rules ? Do we need an overlord to live under ? For what ?
Meta - Yup, you are indeed correct. I was in fact referring to our boy Martin Luther. I think out of all the ideologies/philosophies I have so far read about it is the Humanistic ideologies that I subscribe to most.
Good question, liberty bell. Something to do with establishing her bone fides as an intellect to be taken seriously, if you can believe it. Useless move, obviously. Won't happen again, and I appreciate the inquiry.
Possibly. It inevitably became a discussion of religion for a while.
I like what you said: "Personally, i think calling someone an Architect , when all they do is formulaic trend following and standardized material selection amidts a predetermined capitalist corporeal body is an exaggeration of the term of Architect.
I see a truer architect as someone who is constantly mining for deeper paths was of negotiating environment with the personal life development. I think most of us are Construction Coordinators more so than Architects. ..but thats the tilte society has given us, and so many wear it without so much as a peak at the inner life of form."
Architecture in and of itself doesn't bear immediate enough fruits (financially), the 'market' can't tell at the get-go if good architecture will pay off. There has to be some concrete deliverable like construction coordination for people to feel secure. or at least that's the way it's evolved. Architects should get royalties, or futures, or some complex financial benefit in the future, if their building does well.
ff, there's no anti-intellectualism here. Chug for saying so.
Feb 19, 08 12:28 am ·
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without architecture life is futile
comment
with architecture life is...wait,what life?
so, farmer, should we pull an 'atlas shrugged' on 'em?: all the architects move to a place by ourselves and let everyone else survive without us? then they'd see how much they needed us...
life is futile and the sooner ya realize it the happier you'll be.
futility is just a cynical pose. if your life was really futile you wd end it. and please don't do that. nature abhors a vacuum: meaning will always have a way of creeping in. architecture does not need to be 'art' but it can still fill the vacuum, some way or other.
I think we all, as architects, feel that our lives lose meaning without architecture. I'm just not sure if it's fair to expect everyone else to feel the same way.
just because life is meaningless doesnt mean its not worth hanging around for.
without vado life is futile
life is more than a career
life has a purpose and it isn't "to have fun"
fun is part of it.."men are that they might have joy" afterall, but it isn't "eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die" either.
without obama , obama is obama
why not?
"if you know what life is worth, you will look for yours on earth"
my prophet, robert nesta marley.
ff33 - aren't there like 50 million obama threads now? Don't taint this one either please...
Some of you didn't like the Bible verses....
How about Steve Jobs?
"...Did you know that you have big things to accomplish in life? And did you know that those big things are getting rather dusty while you pour yourself another cup of coffee, and decide to mull things over rather than do them? We were all born with a gift to give in life, one which informs all of our desires, interests, passions and curiosities....We’re here to put a dent in the universe. Otherwise why else even be here?"
There are other reasons we are here Steve, but you're on the right track..
futurist , go obama yourself.
ff33 - one of your hobbies?
metamechanic - nietzsche was a godless psycho like the rest of the french revolution whinos that inspired all the other godless whinos in history: Marx, Althusser, Fish, Lacan, Sausser....Derrida....BLAH BLAH BLAH....Zedong....who either went on to inspire godless socialists or godless totalitarian leaders.
The truth is, ther IS a Creator. There IS a God. There ARE purposes to mankind.
The imprisoning philosphy is atheism.
you're right futurist, there is but one true god...
yes, i am speaking of the flying spaghetti monster.
gods come and go, but the temple lives on. this is why architecture is a more important discipline that theology, and why, although we can live without god, we cannot live without architecture.
that comes out sounding awfully pompous, doesn't it? sorry.
Some want a Decider. Some trust themselves, and their fellow man, to decide -- to make laws and govern themselves.
Some are happy with an "accidental" universe, or one with its inherent logic
and order. Some want a Greater Power.
Aren't Happy and Trust better than Want ?
The real question is, why ? Why are there two diametrically-opposed views of the universe ? Why do some believe one thing, some another ? How did this come to pass ?
metamechanic -
"...nietzsche was Swiss.
Marx was german....etc..."
Yes, that wasn't my point. All of these guys are a springboard off of each others' ideas. The atheistic creations of the French Revolution is one of the backdrops.
"...the only one whining is you, does your life really suck that much? "
Who said I was whining, I was responding to a "life without architecture is futile" so maybe that guy has a chip on his shoulder. I'm saying that architecture isn't the center of my life and life is more than a career..and since you asked, my life is amazing, thank you.
"....wouldn't god be an atheist and i'm pretty sure based on christian standards god is a socialist. god is definetly a totalitarian leader as well...that shit he did to lucifer, not very socialist, but very totalitarian..."
There are rules. This has to do with justice. God would cease to be God if he did not enforce the rules. The rules protect us. And as far as your war in heaven perspective, this is not accurate. Satan is the totalitarian / socialist as Satan operates on force. God operates on agency. God gives us the choice, to see if we choose to follow his commandments. We are responsible for the consequences.
"...futurist, what kind of desperate person hi-jacks a thread about life being futile without architecture....to preach about their insecurities with existence and their apparent fix..."
Funny how you see things. Look over the flow of the thread. I responded to your paragraphs because they reminded me of the drivel from my card-carying-commie professors long ago...
"...you have god, some people have beer. futurist so which god is yours? just curious. "
There is only ONE true God. But I will not walk into this...to allow you (or others) to attack my faith. These forums are anything but tolerant, notwithstanding the supposedly liberal leanings of many here. I've come to find this hypocrisy common in leftist circles..,they are tolerant of anything and anyone BUT Christian, God-believing, conservative views.
i won't last a day without architecture.... (not)
Day after day I must face a world of strangers
Where I don't belong, I'm not that strong
It's nice to know that there's someone I can turn to
Who will always care, you're always there
When there's no getting over that rainbow
When my smallest of dreams won't come true
I can take all the madness the world has to give
But I won't last a day without you
So many times when the city seems to be without a friendly face
A lonely place
It's nice to know that you'll be there if I need you
And you'll always smile, it's all worthwhile
When there's no getting over that rainbow
When my smallest of dreams won't come true
I can take all the madness the world has to give
But I won't last a day without you
Touch me and I end up singing
Troubles seem to up and disappear
You touch me with the love you're bringing
I can't really lose when you're near
If all my friends have forgotten half their promises
They're not unkind, just hard to find
One look at you and I know that I could learn to live
Without the rest, I found the best
When there's no getting over that rainbow
When my smallest of dreams won't come true
I can take all the madness the world has to give
But I won't last a day without you
When there's no getting over that rainbow
When my smallest of dreams won't come true
I can take all the madness the world has to give
But I won't last a day without you
there is such a thing, i think, as an american god. i think this god - futurist's "one true god" - has a lot of influence on contemporary american culture, certainly more influence than architecture.
this god is important. so important, in fact, that my wife and i feel pretty strongly that our daughters need to learn about this god, and the associated bible stories, morals, and rules that come with this god, so that they can be sufficiently grounded in our own american mythology - it's part of contemporary cultural literacy.
BUT i'd argue that architecture is actually older - more eternal - than this american god (which certainly doesn't really resemble the god of the middle ages, the god of early israel, or the god of the renaissance very much). a love for architecture and the desire to improve the world through physical acts has done more good than any belief in a god future or past.
I always felt like architecture was an "extension" of my truer sense of purporse . When I began studying scared geometry and the humanities at like 16, I started to develop a stronger repertoire with Architcture than as a career choice. If there was no profession called Architect, I would still be doing this work. There is a whole esoteric level to discovery of form and to many "verbs" that surround it, just as there is a whole esoteric nature to the human form itself
Personally, i think calling someone an Architect , when all they do is formulaic trend following and standardized material selection amidts a predetermined capitalist corporeal body is an exaggeration of the term of Architect.
I see a truer architect as someone who is constantly mining for deeper paths was of negotiating environment with the personal life development. I think most of us are Construction Coordinators more so than Architects. ..but thats the tilte society has given us, and so many wear it without so much as a peak at the inner life of form.
Steven
Thats is very distinct way to deal with it. You love your children, so you allow the "contemporary cultural literacy" to develop in them, all the while keeping a grander question in mind. Refreshing!,... as most seem to think a "unified theory of faith" (or shoudl i say "fairy tale")
applies to all.
Meta - while I pretty much don't agree with your existential ideologies I do agree with your statement about the Bible
another thing you're probably not aware of, since you sound like the typical "jesus freak who never read his bible" is that the old testament, especially the first 5 books, were written in ancient Hebrew with a vocab of 4,000 words. the new testament, basically written by Jews for Jesus was written in Greek. I highly doubt you like i can read either of those languages fluently, hence turning both you and i's interpretation of the origin of the universe into an art debate, like looking at an Andy Warhol painting going -"no man, god really did create the world in 7 days..." and the other "no dude, 7 days for god is like 1000 years man..." How true that is. So many things have been mistranslated, misinterpreted, and even for that matter out and out copied wrong. Gotta love Luther and his Humanist friends.
Devils Advocate view - Without architecture, life IS futile, but life can go on without architects. They'd just hire developers and engineers to do our jobs. Sad but true.
Meta rocks. With these views one has a chance to see the universe as it is, and to find one's true place within it. Isn't the truth worth more than a little discomfort ? And isn't architecture, properly conceived, really a manifestation of Truth ?
" If there was no profession called Architect, I would still be doing this work. "
http://www.latimes.com/features/books/la-bk-winslow10feb10,0,6680233.story
"During the past four decades," Jacoby writes, "America's endemic anti-intellectual tendencies have been grievously exacerbated by a new species of semiconscious anti-rationalism, feeding on and fed by an ignorant popular culture of video images and unremitting noise that leaves no room for contemplation or logic."
this discussion is futile without alcohol...
haha
yeah there is no real linage of thought is there? Happy hour is at 3 on Sat.
I linked to Jacoby and quoted her because I was just introduced last night, via Bill Moyers's PBS "Journal." She's ugly as sin and brilliant. Did you know that only 23% of American kids with two years of college could find four principal mideast nations, on a map that had the countries labeled ? The number for high school graduates: 6%. One in five Americans think the sun revolves around the earth. Do we really need Creationism to further pollute the education system ?
The program ended with a clip form a quiz show, with the attractive but clueless young contestant saying she didn't know where Hungary was, and after being told said "but I thought Europe WAS a country " -- and the host saying "Hungry -- yeah, you know, like hungry ?". . .
I love those analogies. "What would Jesus do" is a sword that cuts both ways. The tragedy is that men take the words and work of others and pervert it to their own ends. What fundamentalism and political conservatism have in common, perhaps, is fear -- fear of connection, of generosity and humility, of "giving it all up in order to have it all," to paraphrase another bit of scripture.
Living "naked" in the world is the greatest blessing, once found. Don't we trust ourselves, and each other, to make reasonable rules to live by ? Don't we have an innate conscience that gives us those rules ? Do we need an overlord to live under ? For what ?
Umm -- the alternative being the death penalty ? Better a well-designed prison than a particle-board coffin.
Haven't read the French yet. Saving it for my old age (fast coming upon me) ?
without life architecture is futile. . .
Meta - Yup, you are indeed correct. I was in fact referring to our boy Martin Luther. I think out of all the ideologies/philosophies I have so far read about it is the Humanistic ideologies that I subscribe to most.
just because life is meaningless doesnt mean its not worth hanging around for.
Easily the best post I've ever seen from VR in the 3+ years I've been skulking this forum, my thoughts exactly.
SDR, I can't help but wonder why you felt it necessary to proclaim Jacoby "ugly as sin". If she was a male author, would you have done so?
I'm not spanking you here, I'm just genuinely curious. No need to respond.
Good question, liberty bell. Something to do with establishing her bone fides as an intellect to be taken seriously, if you can believe it. Useless move, obviously. Won't happen again, and I appreciate the inquiry.
my ex gf/future wife is a serious intellect and quite easy on the eyes.
I'm handsome as hell and a real lightweight, head-wise. Takes all kinds !
"just because life is meaningless doesnt mean its not worth hanging around for."
That's true I watched the 2 hour finale of American Gladiator last night, if you had also, you would understand.
Huh. I'll have to wait for others to fill me in.
Did they discover that there's no Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy or Great Pumpkin, either ?
this thread suffers from an apparent anti-intellectualism itself
Possibly. It inevitably became a discussion of religion for a while.
I like what you said: "Personally, i think calling someone an Architect , when all they do is formulaic trend following and standardized material selection amidts a predetermined capitalist corporeal body is an exaggeration of the term of Architect.
I see a truer architect as someone who is constantly mining for deeper paths was of negotiating environment with the personal life development. I think most of us are Construction Coordinators more so than Architects. ..but thats the tilte society has given us, and so many wear it without so much as a peak at the inner life of form."
Architecture in and of itself doesn't bear immediate enough fruits (financially), the 'market' can't tell at the get-go if good architecture will pay off. There has to be some concrete deliverable like construction coordination for people to feel secure. or at least that's the way it's evolved. Architects should get royalties, or futures, or some complex financial benefit in the future, if their building does well.
ff, there's no anti-intellectualism here. Chug for saying so.
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