I've been lucky enough to have been accepted to the M.Arch 1 programs at both Harvard's GSD and Yale, among other schools, and now it's come down to a very difficult choice between the two.
Just attended the open houses for both schools, and they're so very different. I spoke with other students there admitted to both programs and most seem to be leaning towards the GSD, but I don't know if that was just because of a post-GSD high. I would love to hear from students that attended both open houses as well.
YALE:
With Peter Eisenman and Bob Stern at the helm, Yale seems to be a much more traditional program. Their facilities are second to none, and their history/theory looks like it wins out over the GSD (which is nice since writing/publishing will invariably be part of my future career), but I was not particularly impressed by their actual designs. They seem like some of the most conservative architectural designs that I have seen in the top programs. This is only furthered by the fact that Eisenman always brings up the architecture vs. design debate, in which he staunchly supports the architecture camp. My feeling there is that the program would teach you to design a building a do it well, but in the same way that it has been done for decades. There also seems to be an overwhelming cultural homogeneity there and very little racial or thought diversity.
HARVARD:
The GSD, on the other hand, seemed to be a much more diverse program. Its integration with Planning and Landscapes makes it a much more collaborative and interdisciplinary environment. Though the M.Arch program is about the same size, because you share a building with planning and landscape it's overall a bigger program, and even within the M.Arch I have this feeling that you'd get less individual attention. The facilities are great, second only to Yale's. I'm sure the faculty's great, but how do both history/theory and design faculty compare with Yale's? I'm assuming the GSD has a slight edge on the design side only.
It also seems like it's a tad bit harder to get into Yale, though I am basing that solely on the few posts I have seen on this website, so that could be completely false. From attending the open houses, however, I do know that they types of students they select are very different; Yale seems to base their decisions on more traditional stats like GPAs and GREs, whereas the GSD looks like maybe they put more emphasis on the portfolio. That would explain why Yale's program seems to be more traditional bust have a stronger history/theory edge, while the GSD is more progressive in its designs but less fluent in history/theory.
Am I way off? Please help before I have to make a decision on Friday.
I'm not sure what you saw this year specifically, but I wouldn't categorize Yale's program as generally more traditional. The realities are going to come down to who you choose as your studio critics, and historically there is a very diverse selection from extreme traditional to extreme cutting edge. The faculty makeup is very diverse in terms of design. Yale has no specific pedagogy so it is VERY much what you make of it, not what is pushed on you.
Obviously both schools are excellent, and you are correct in noticing that they are very different programs. Forget about the "allure" of one over the other because at the end of the day, the networking you can do at either is second to none. One of the schools will probably be better suited for your strengths and weakness (to improve upon while there). You need to think hard about which one is better suited for YOU.
Another VERY VERY VERY important aspect, that is generally overlooked and at many times unable to be accounted for before hand, is class dynamic. A great class dynamic will exponentially improve the quality of your overall education, while a lousy one (lots of negativity, complaining, very clickish) will not allow you to take full advantage of your education. Think about the people you met at the open houses, if there is anyway of knowing which school they will go to, can you anticipate how you think everyone would gel as a class? Wherever you go, if you feel like you are not in sync with your class or if there just doesn't seemed to be a generally good vibe, then take a year off after year one and start afresh for year two.
good luck
Hey mmerrill - I'm actually agonizing over the same decision right now, so I feel your pain! This is definitely not ever a decision I have thought I would have to make. I don't really have any insight at this point (thought I totally agree with most of your points, especially the "homogeneity" of the people at Yale which is causing me to slightly lean towards the GSD) but just thought I'd say hey and maybe plea along with you for some help.
P.S. I've been a lurker for far too long and this is finally my first post. Hey guys.
five of five (hey) and mmerrill - I'm in the same boat. Nice boat to be in, no?
Though, I didn't really get the impression that Yale's history/theory wins out over GSD's, especially in regards to geographic/cultural diversity. Although both schools seem to have a very eurocentric focus in their core history/theory classes, there seemed to be greater diversity of options later at the GSD. In what way did you feel yale's h/t was stronger mmerrill?
And I felt the same way about the overall program in general as well. Like you guys pointed out, the homogeneity of Yale is a turn off.
So, I'm most definitely leaning towards the GSD. But Yale's got a small matter of a 10k/year edge on the financial aid front - and is a semester shorter.
very interesting discussion indeed. I would say that when i was looking at the 2 schools i found the exact opposite of what you describe, Yale being the more cutting edge and design based and Harvard geared more towards academia, history and theory. Because of that I chose Yale, and would say that they program held up to that view the 3 years I was there. Good luck with your decision.
Echoing what tagalong said, this is such a profoundly personal decision. I was at the GSD open house last week, too. I didn't attend the Yale open house because I didn't apply to Yale. I'm not sure if Yale had a student panel similar to that at Harvard, but that was helpful in guiding me toward feeling that the GSD was a good place for me, meaning that I could find a way with my own distinct tastes/goals/interests. (The exception was the Stanford kid referring to the Somerville area as the 'GSD ghetto.' I nearly vomited at the precise depiction of elitism that I fucking hate about Harvard.)
The reality is that there may not be a 'best' place for you. It sounds like, understandably, you may be over-thinking it, and should just go with your gut. Best of luck.
How specifically did you all feel that the Yale student body was homogeneous? I couldn't attend the open house, because I'm in another hemisphere right now, but am going to accept their offer of admission. Based on my visit in the fall, the finacial aid offer, and what I know about the curriculum it wasn't a though decision given my other options (GSD wasn't one of them, I didn't apply there). But even with all of that I can't anticipate what my classmates are going to be like.
You seem to be fishing for a lot of people's portfolio, going so far as to email me requesting mine. If people want to share them publicly, they will- no need to beg everyone.
so i'm guessing there's a fresh batch of folks in this same boat again, and i am one of them. i thought by now i'd have a clear sense of which one is better for me, but instead i feel i can find distinct advantages/attractions for each! would love to hear what others in the same situation are thinking...
going to grad school has always been on my mind. I want to pursue that professional license and one day practice as an architect. I love to learn in school and not just produce merely cool things. at the same time, I embrace quality craftsmanship and techniques.
I want to know what are some people's thought after attending and knowing these schools much better than I do
by your description, you should go to a state school and save yourself a lot of money.
You can obtain an accredited degree and be a practicing architect at many schools. Craftsmanship and techniques? That's not really at either one of these schools. What do you actually want? I would assume you wrote it in your intention letter?
Quality of life has always been an aspect of architecture. Yale does not focus too much on it. I think the best schools to go to if you strategically want to focus only on that would be west coast ones.
Personally, I'm looking for a broad approach to the discipline, with a strong theoretical backing...I get the sense that the GSD program is definitely more diverse (specially with the options for students to take landscape and urban planning and design studios) but Yale has a more theoretical bent...Am I totally misguided?
Ultimately after graduating I think I would like to be able to operate from the edge of architecture - I'm really interested in the research + publishing aspects of the discipline. I would love to hear thoughts on which program might be better for pursuing these interests?
The GSD is lucky that they have a Landscape and Urban program so likely have more options than we (YSoA) do. We have a few landscape elective courses per year (Joel Sanders has been teaching a few) and there's one class on British Landscapes which is in England now. And there tends to be one advanced studio in the fall dedicated to Landscape.
As far as urbanism, most of our studios are more urban projects than individual buildings.
I would agree on Yale having a more theoretical bent. It's not overly so though and not all of the students are into heavy theory. But many are. I personally always think of the GSD as a design school and YSOA as a thinking school. So your interests in research and publications might do well here. You likely know Perspecta. Have you seen a new journal that started last Fall, called Process? It's all Yallies. And Log seems to be more and more Yale professors or former students. Obviously students from all the big schools have good opportunities to research and write though.
and im not sure what you consider "cutting edge." Our main "cutting edge" in house people would be Mark Foster Gage (cant stop talking about Lady Gaga) and Ariane Harrison (interest in post-humanism). They're always around and teaching. This year we had Tom Wiscombe and Zaha in advance studios. Zaha obviously not being very hands-on but Tom was here a lot. Student work was interesting. Gregg Lynn comes every other year i think. But that depends if you consider them "cutting edge."
Thanks for sharing your insights, I found them very helpful. I guess I had sensed the same differences between the two schools, but I like your way of putting it - a design school vs a thinking school.
As for the cutting edge bit - sorry that was my mistake, poor word choice. What I meant was edge as in periphery, I think I might like to explore some of the tangential paths from architecture, and since I'm not quite sure what exactly those might be (at least the less conventional ones) I am hoping I'd gain some exposure to these types of possibilities at grad school...
Harvard's GSD vs Yale
Hello all-
I've been lucky enough to have been accepted to the M.Arch 1 programs at both Harvard's GSD and Yale, among other schools, and now it's come down to a very difficult choice between the two.
Just attended the open houses for both schools, and they're so very different. I spoke with other students there admitted to both programs and most seem to be leaning towards the GSD, but I don't know if that was just because of a post-GSD high. I would love to hear from students that attended both open houses as well.
YALE:
With Peter Eisenman and Bob Stern at the helm, Yale seems to be a much more traditional program. Their facilities are second to none, and their history/theory looks like it wins out over the GSD (which is nice since writing/publishing will invariably be part of my future career), but I was not particularly impressed by their actual designs. They seem like some of the most conservative architectural designs that I have seen in the top programs. This is only furthered by the fact that Eisenman always brings up the architecture vs. design debate, in which he staunchly supports the architecture camp. My feeling there is that the program would teach you to design a building a do it well, but in the same way that it has been done for decades. There also seems to be an overwhelming cultural homogeneity there and very little racial or thought diversity.
HARVARD:
The GSD, on the other hand, seemed to be a much more diverse program. Its integration with Planning and Landscapes makes it a much more collaborative and interdisciplinary environment. Though the M.Arch program is about the same size, because you share a building with planning and landscape it's overall a bigger program, and even within the M.Arch I have this feeling that you'd get less individual attention. The facilities are great, second only to Yale's. I'm sure the faculty's great, but how do both history/theory and design faculty compare with Yale's? I'm assuming the GSD has a slight edge on the design side only.
It also seems like it's a tad bit harder to get into Yale, though I am basing that solely on the few posts I have seen on this website, so that could be completely false. From attending the open houses, however, I do know that they types of students they select are very different; Yale seems to base their decisions on more traditional stats like GPAs and GREs, whereas the GSD looks like maybe they put more emphasis on the portfolio. That would explain why Yale's program seems to be more traditional bust have a stronger history/theory edge, while the GSD is more progressive in its designs but less fluent in history/theory.
Am I way off? Please help before I have to make a decision on Friday.
it seems like you have good portfolio, GPA, and GRE. sharethem with us. i'd love to see your portfolio.
I'm not sure what you saw this year specifically, but I wouldn't categorize Yale's program as generally more traditional. The realities are going to come down to who you choose as your studio critics, and historically there is a very diverse selection from extreme traditional to extreme cutting edge. The faculty makeup is very diverse in terms of design. Yale has no specific pedagogy so it is VERY much what you make of it, not what is pushed on you.
Obviously both schools are excellent, and you are correct in noticing that they are very different programs. Forget about the "allure" of one over the other because at the end of the day, the networking you can do at either is second to none. One of the schools will probably be better suited for your strengths and weakness (to improve upon while there). You need to think hard about which one is better suited for YOU.
Another VERY VERY VERY important aspect, that is generally overlooked and at many times unable to be accounted for before hand, is class dynamic. A great class dynamic will exponentially improve the quality of your overall education, while a lousy one (lots of negativity, complaining, very clickish) will not allow you to take full advantage of your education. Think about the people you met at the open houses, if there is anyway of knowing which school they will go to, can you anticipate how you think everyone would gel as a class? Wherever you go, if you feel like you are not in sync with your class or if there just doesn't seemed to be a generally good vibe, then take a year off after year one and start afresh for year two.
good luck
Hey mmerrill - I'm actually agonizing over the same decision right now, so I feel your pain! This is definitely not ever a decision I have thought I would have to make. I don't really have any insight at this point (thought I totally agree with most of your points, especially the "homogeneity" of the people at Yale which is causing me to slightly lean towards the GSD) but just thought I'd say hey and maybe plea along with you for some help.
P.S. I've been a lurker for far too long and this is finally my first post. Hey guys.
five of five (hey) and mmerrill - I'm in the same boat. Nice boat to be in, no?
Though, I didn't really get the impression that Yale's history/theory wins out over GSD's, especially in regards to geographic/cultural diversity. Although both schools seem to have a very eurocentric focus in their core history/theory classes, there seemed to be greater diversity of options later at the GSD. In what way did you feel yale's h/t was stronger mmerrill?
And I felt the same way about the overall program in general as well. Like you guys pointed out, the homogeneity of Yale is a turn off.
So, I'm most definitely leaning towards the GSD. But Yale's got a small matter of a 10k/year edge on the financial aid front - and is a semester shorter.
Decisions, decisions.
:S
very interesting discussion indeed. I would say that when i was looking at the 2 schools i found the exact opposite of what you describe, Yale being the more cutting edge and design based and Harvard geared more towards academia, history and theory. Because of that I chose Yale, and would say that they program held up to that view the 3 years I was there. Good luck with your decision.
Echoing what tagalong said, this is such a profoundly personal decision. I was at the GSD open house last week, too. I didn't attend the Yale open house because I didn't apply to Yale. I'm not sure if Yale had a student panel similar to that at Harvard, but that was helpful in guiding me toward feeling that the GSD was a good place for me, meaning that I could find a way with my own distinct tastes/goals/interests. (The exception was the Stanford kid referring to the Somerville area as the 'GSD ghetto.' I nearly vomited at the precise depiction of elitism that I fucking hate about Harvard.)
The reality is that there may not be a 'best' place for you. It sounds like, understandably, you may be over-thinking it, and should just go with your gut. Best of luck.
comment field is required
Don't forget to look at the required curriculum, credits dedicated to core, etc...
nb: GSD cumulates with Thesis (at least for MArch1) whereas Yale has extra year of option studiosHow specifically did you all feel that the Yale student body was homogeneous? I couldn't attend the open house, because I'm in another hemisphere right now, but am going to accept their offer of admission. Based on my visit in the fall, the finacial aid offer, and what I know about the curriculum it wasn't a though decision given my other options (GSD wasn't one of them, I didn't apply there). But even with all of that I can't anticipate what my classmates are going to be like.
leetecture
You seem to be fishing for a lot of people's portfolio, going so far as to email me requesting mine. If people want to share them publicly, they will- no need to beg everyone.
eisenmann is 78 - so he will slow down - don't just go one over the other for that reason.
Decision day people.
I'm listening to my gut and goin to the GSD. See you there Beezely.
five of five, mmerrill - where are you headed? How did you decide?
GSD for me too. Also more or less a gut feeling.
so i'm guessing there's a fresh batch of folks in this same boat again, and i am one of them. i thought by now i'd have a clear sense of which one is better for me, but instead i feel i can find distinct advantages/attractions for each! would love to hear what others in the same situation are thinking...
Cool conversation, bros.
any thoughts anybody? gsd vs ysoa m.arch I..thoughts from current students, admitted students, alumni?
why do you want to go to grad school?
Both programs are fantastic. But they're both different. Depends on you.
@james petty\
going to grad school has always been on my mind. I want to pursue that professional license and one day practice as an architect. I love to learn in school and not just produce merely cool things. at the same time, I embrace quality craftsmanship and techniques.
I want to know what are some people's thought after attending and knowing these schools much better than I do
by your description, you should go to a state school and save yourself a lot of money.
You can obtain an accredited degree and be a practicing architect at many schools. Craftsmanship and techniques? That's not really at either one of these schools. What do you actually want? I would assume you wrote it in your intention letter?
Are any of the 2 schools Harvard/yale into sustainability like Oregon or Berkley ,
Isn't that future if architecture? Or are they emphasizing that now ?
Quality of life has always been an aspect of architecture. Yale does not focus too much on it. I think the best schools to go to if you strategically want to focus only on that would be west coast ones.
Personally, I'm looking for a broad approach to the discipline, with a strong theoretical backing...I get the sense that the GSD program is definitely more diverse (specially with the options for students to take landscape and urban planning and design studios) but Yale has a more theoretical bent...Am I totally misguided?
Ultimately after graduating I think I would like to be able to operate from the edge of architecture - I'm really interested in the research + publishing aspects of the discipline. I would love to hear thoughts on which program might be better for pursuing these interests?
The GSD is lucky that they have a Landscape and Urban program so likely have more options than we (YSoA) do. We have a few landscape elective courses per year (Joel Sanders has been teaching a few) and there's one class on British Landscapes which is in England now. And there tends to be one advanced studio in the fall dedicated to Landscape.
As far as urbanism, most of our studios are more urban projects than individual buildings.
I would agree on Yale having a more theoretical bent. It's not overly so though and not all of the students are into heavy theory. But many are. I personally always think of the GSD as a design school and YSOA as a thinking school. So your interests in research and publications might do well here. You likely know Perspecta. Have you seen a new journal that started last Fall, called Process? It's all Yallies. And Log seems to be more and more Yale professors or former students. Obviously students from all the big schools have good opportunities to research and write though.
and im not sure what you consider "cutting edge." Our main "cutting edge" in house people would be Mark Foster Gage (cant stop talking about Lady Gaga) and Ariane Harrison (interest in post-humanism). They're always around and teaching. This year we had Tom Wiscombe and Zaha in advance studios. Zaha obviously not being very hands-on but Tom was here a lot. Student work was interesting. Gregg Lynn comes every other year i think. But that depends if you consider them "cutting edge."
@ James Petty
Thanks for sharing your insights, I found them very helpful. I guess I had sensed the same differences between the two schools, but I like your way of putting it - a design school vs a thinking school.
As for the cutting edge bit - sorry that was my mistake, poor word choice. What I meant was edge as in periphery, I think I might like to explore some of the tangential paths from architecture, and since I'm not quite sure what exactly those might be (at least the less conventional ones) I am hoping I'd gain some exposure to these types of possibilities at grad school...
Thanks again for your (as always) helpful input!