Wow, what a great accomplishment. In two months, the simple act of a couple hundred of people camping out in a park has sparked a national (and even international) dialogue which has been absent for 20 years at least in America.
The power of ideas, it really is amazing to watch, and even more rewarding to be apart of.
It looks like the courts said it may not be constitutional to kick the ows people out. Tents are free speech too. Hopefully this works for them and follows through in places like Denver.
Protesters' First Amendment rights don't entitle them to camp out indefinitely in the plaza, ruled New York City Supreme Court Justice Michael Stallman as he denied a motion by demonstrators seeking to re-establish their camp. (Read his ruling here.)
"Even protected speech is not equally permissible in all places and at all times," Stallman ruled.
Police cleared out protesters in a nighttime sweep early Tuesday. The judge upheld the city's effective eviction of the protesters after an emergency appeal by the National Lawyers Guild.
The protesters had been camped out in privately owned Zuccotti Park since mid-September. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he ordered the sweep because health and safety conditions had become "intolerable" in the crowded plaza.
Apparently First Amendment rights don't guarantee members of the press the ability to do their jobs, either:
In a statement on Tuesday, the group noted that at least six journalists had been arrested, and called "for all charges against these journalists to be dropped and for greater care by police to avoid arresting or otherwise obstructing journalists who are simply and clearly doing their jobs." It also stressed that "the journalists were either wearing press credentials or explained to police that they were reporters covering the protests," and argued, "they were clearly exercising the constitutional right of a free press...it is clear now that many journalists have been erroneously arrested without cause."
The New York Press club also condemned the Bloomberg administration for its apparent efforts to block journalists from witnessing the raid. The club criticized what it said "would seem to be a strategic decision to cloak potentially volatile police activity from the public."
Unfortunately the reports that say most of the original protesters have moved on seem to be accurate. 1 month into my local Occupy movement (which is set up about 3 blocks from where I work) and it seems like it has deteriorated entirely to the homeless, the mentally disabled, drug-addicts and other, like, rebels against society, man! It genuinely feels like the original message has been completely lost to individuals finding a common place to pass the time and promote their own grievances against whatever. Within the first week, Greenpeace was actively attempting to engage every park passer-by to sign up and/or support their organization - yep, those energetic, bright-eyed young'uns who step directly in your path so you can't ignore them. About a week later there was a large tent set up by "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth", which really doesn't seem to have anything in common with the Occupy movement past using it as a platform to promote themselves (as of today the tent is still there). Obvious drug use is everywhere, which does nothing but detract attention from the cause to the average passer-by.
I was (and still am) a firm believer in the message this has promoted, and in most major cities like NY and Toronto it seems like the message hasn't wavered at all. However, where I am I have completely lost all faith in the credibility of the local "chapter" of it and am slowly joining the side of those that just wish they would move on.
Once again, those douchebags from high school (the ones who didn't conform to anything, except whatever made them look like a rebel this week) are back to ruin the party.
Police were dumping drunks, prison releasees, mental patients, etc. at Zuccotti. Most found that they were treated much better there than they had been at various institutions and facilities.
Pretty much every way you can possibly conceive of to denigrate the movement is in full play along with a few thousand others that we have yet to discover.
“Who gave you the right to occupy America?” asked Rove to the protesters, apparently unaware of the Bill of Rights. As they repeated their slogan, “We are the 99 percent!” Rove petulantly responded, “No you’re not!” He snidely added, “You wanna keep jumping up and yelling that you’re the 99 percent? How presumptuous and arrogant can you think are!”
But the prisoners rumor is not true, says Sharman Stein, spokeswoman for the Department of Correction.
She says it’s the policy of the city jails, which house detainees awaiting trial and those people who have sentences of one year or less, to leave off released prisoners at a transportation hub in the borough of their residence. Each day, a Department of Correction bus drops off people being released at those hubs in the five boroughs.
“In Manhattan that spot is Canal and Centre streets,” Stein says. “Now, that’s pretty close to Zuccotti. But that spot existed before Occupy Wall Street.”
Indeed, that intersection is less than 10 blocks from Zuccotti. But there’s no evidence that this practice has anything to do with Occupy, nor, for that matter, that former prisoners are the ones causing problems in the park.
Nov 17, 11 9:18 am ·
·
Who care about Zucotti Park? Occupy Wall Street should focusing on occupying Wall Street, (if not the offices of Goldman, Morgan, etc.), yo!
I'll bet these two clowns get the lead story on FOX: The Counter-Revoution is Here! Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, and Coulter will say tens of thousands of patriotic Americans protested the communist dirty hippie protesters.
"Now, clearly there are a lot of disgruntled Americans. There’s a lot of anger… even class tensions. The OWS movement is emblematic of this sentiment for sure, but in terms of taking action, most people still believe in the political process.
All of their angst and negativity will be taken out in the voting booth. Until then, it’s the calm before the storm. But the unfortunate reality is that no matter which way the 2012 election turns out, chaos will ensue.
If President Obama wins a second term, many conservative Americans will have reached their breaking points. If a republican candidate should win, a huge portion of Americans will feel they have lost their champion.
No matter what, though, people will quickly realize that absolutely nothing has changed. They’ll recognize that the insolvency of the United States government is a simple arithmetic problem; that social security is bankrupt; that the Treasury Department is a giant Ponzi scheme; and that there is. no. recovery.
For now, Americans are still investing in the political process. Come next year, though, all the hope that’s building up will turn quickly into disappointment… and then anger. Then they’ll take that anger to the streets.
This is what happens when governments go bust. It’s happened numerous times throughout history, and it’s playing out right now from Greece to Argentina."
Stuff is getting crazy out there. Wonkette has an article about how the Department of Homeland Security probably had something to do with coordinating the Occupy raids throughout the country. Good to know that DHS is actually good for something, even if it is only coordinating...
And today in Portland they used pepper spray on the Occupiers for the first time when - wait for it - they tried to "occupy" a Chase branch bank. Apparently the police went in pretty hard when the protesters showed up at the bank's doorstep. I mean, the banks are the reason this all started in the first place, it actually makes sense when they protest there, but it's kind of freaky when the police show up hard like that.
Again, Matt Taibbi called it: why aren't the police entering Chase Bank themselves to arrest all the people who destroyed our financial system? In my mind, the longer these protests keep going the more likely we are going to see public opinion move towards arresting the people who caused this problem, not the young women standing on a sidewalk in the rain.
And as the Wonkette article commenters say: Remember when Homeland Security made efforts to crack down on those armed Teabagger rallies? Yeah, I don't either...after all, who is a bigger threat to the homeland that the people who actually occupy it?
Fuck homeland security. I'd rather deal with another terrorist strike than the malignant cancer that DHS truly is. We need to bring the American citizens who ARE police, TSA, DHS employees etc. to realize that this battle is FOR them.
oh yeah those tea party rallies were OUT.OF.CONTROL.!
remember those teabaggers illegally assembling for months and months, pooping in planters, blocking traffic, druggin' drugs, and assaulting and raping each other? yeah, i don't either ...
Nov 18, 11 10:06 am ·
·
There. is. no. recovery. It's not just possible, it is inevitable.
Why are bond rates such a big deal? Because they are the interest rates that governments have to pay to borrow money and right now governments are already borrowing money just to pay interest on previously borrowed money. But the rates keep creeping up and we all know that there is only one end to this and it will not be pretty. The modern western paradigm of a growth economy is at its terminal end.
The economy crashed in 2008. It's been staggering for three years now but the total collapse is near. The bankers & politicians are responsible and this is why the Wall Street should be painted red with the blood spurting out of the necks of the decapitated bankers & politicians (both Dem & Rep, btw) courtesy of the mob.
Does not matter who you are, everybody in the 99% got touched by this derivative economic robbery.
The student loans set in a way to an unrealistic repayment, interest, penalties, fees and a predatory collection system, that hopes to generate more default and fees, taking a big chunk of our paycheck if you have one now.
The people that are dying of curable diseases for lack of universal health care in the richest country in the world, because they, the1%, tell us boohoo that the country is broke. A big chunk of our paycheck goes to pay once again for insurance companies + coo pays + rejections, etc. Lucky if we have a job now and it offers insurance for individual and or family?
The abusive interest rate that the banks post on accounts in credit repayment 32% + abusive penalties, to cause more and more default.
The unfair credit rate system that generate more interest charge on the poor.
This movement has to bring up a comprehensive reform in order to promote growth and more equality and quality of life for all.
Fuck homeland security. I'd rather deal with another terrorist strike than the malignant cancer that DHS truly is. We need to bring the American citizens who ARE police, TSA, DHS employees etc. to realize that this battle is FOR them.
totally agree donna. The problem with the police is that they are the same type of person for the most part that has those barbwire tattoos on their arms. What I am saying is that they are Alpha males (for the most part) that thrive on power and domination of others. Ex. stuffing nerds in lockers and giving wedgies to the small kids. I am not sure that many police are that bright to be honest. I am not one to say "fuck the police," because I know they play an important and necessary role in society, but lets be real about these biological and psychological factors. The police are usually content with taking orders and are the type of people that have trouble with questioning authority. They also feel that they are the authority, and believe that any opposition to authority of any kind (banks, gov't, etc.) is a direct challenge to their power, because in their minds they are the ultimate authority. Although they are in the 99%, and much of the movement is in support of their unions and against cutting spending that would hurt them, they do not see it this way. We as a society give to much credit to "grownups" we need to realise that the same dynamic of the jocks the stoners, the nerds, the minorities is still in play but now just in a different setting and with rubberbullets instead of spit balls.
yeah why would the police try to enforce the law? i mean, if they're asked to break up an unlawful assembly they should all get together and question if it's in their best interest or not. since OWS is really fighting for the police they should give OWS a pass with regard to the law.
but police are just too stupid and too full of testosterone to see the truth.
Also should add that I think there is a big difference between being intellegent and clever. A clever person can do a task well, but cannot find meaning or purpose in relation to the bigger picture of society or the universe. Clever people can be filthy rich, intellegent people would have a hard time being motivated by money alone. This is important because it illustrates the type of people in power. Clever people know how to play the game and will do anything to get ahead and stay ahead while the intellegent person is commited to specific ideology or vision and will not bend for money or position. It is the reason people like Romney are running for president over millions of smarter people. Unfortunatly our system is more easily workable if you are clever because we reward the "company man" and shun the thinker. So naturally we have a society run and owned by clever people who do not care about anything but winning and gaining things that act as proff of "success' like money and power. These things are everything to them, because if you are full of shit all of the time there is nothing else to prove your worth. So they see this OWS movement as a threat to the core of their being. I think this OWS movement is a struggle between more than just the haves and have-nots, but between the people who want more intangible things in society (clean environments, living polar bears, opportunity, equality, peace) and people who want more tangible things (money, power, property). These 2 sides will never see the world the same way. If you are motivated by money and power it is easy to get, however if your goals are to better the world or to create a better way of living, it is much harder to get into positions of wealth and power because you are always fighting against the grain.
yeah why would the police try to enforce the law? i mean, if they're asked to break up an unlawful assembly they should all get together and question if it's in their best interest or not. since OWS is really fighting for the police they should give OWS a pass with regard to the law.
No one in the military or police force should blindly act immoral. What do you think the police in Iran should do, obey orders? Why is this any different?
Not all cops are assholes. This retired captain was arrested for standing with the protesters in NY:
You are right. Also remember the police chief that refused to evict people from their homes...(not sure where?) I know a couple cops myself and 2 out of 3 of them are not assholes, but when put in a position to maintain power (different form enforsing the law most of the time) they are in a hard position and most will fall into a group think mentality....
tint, the abuse of credit by the large financial institutions was indeed the cause of the financial problems. Many thousand defaulted loans by people buying too much house would not have led to this breadth of problem if the banks had held on to them. The problem is those loans were then packaged up, mislabeled as high quality, then sold to pension funds against whom bets were placed that they would fail. You can't blame this problem on consumer credit.
It's a big picture and I think consumer credit is no doubt a fragment of the picture. I'm a firm believer in: wherever there's blame, there's a failure to take responsibility. No doubt banks, for some reason, decided to practice predatory lending on a sector that tends to fail to take responsibility. Now the banks are justifiably getting blamed for investing in scapegoats for profit. Not only did they over-leverage their risk to capital ratio, they over-leveraged their scapegoating to blame ratio too. They played both hands against one another and I think OWS needs to teach the banks about folding.
Jeezus Matias that second video is awful! I looked at the first one and just felt worried for everyone involved, including the cops and the horses, but just nonchalantly spraying down a bunch of seated teenagers?! WTF. This country is so broken, and it's not going to get fixed. Sitting down asking for rights to be respected is not violent, but we're populated by a bunch of ignorant yahoos who only know how to yell or hit.
omg it's like we've become exactly like iran, except without protests being violently quelled within a week through the killing of hundreds of protesters ..
Nov 19, 11 9:32 am ·
·
The police are scared. Revolutionary sentiment is rising. It's only a matter of time before one of these masses of protesters turns on them.
You think the protestors are going to turn on the police? I'm thinking if there is a bunch of people sitting in a park, unarmed and unarmored, on one side and a bunch of people fully armored, with helmets, shields, pepper spray, and batons -- it's not the people sitting on their asses that are trying to stir up trouble. Matias's second video shows pretty clearly there is a fair likelihood the cops will be the aggressors that start any riots.
Avoid wearing oil based moisturizer or sunscreen as chemicals cling to these on your skin. Remove with detergent-free soap before going near the riot.
Wear glasses rather than contact lenses; tear gas behind contact lenses is unimaginable pain. Swimming goggles can protect eyes, or a gas mask.
Put wet bandannas in a plastic bag and carry these for your mouth. Wrap them around your mouth if tear gas is released. They need constant replacement as they will keep soaking up the gas.
Wear vinyl or latex gloves to protect your hands from pepper spray; the nerve endings will make them feel like agony if sprayed.
Carry spare clothes to change if you're hit by chemicals or a water cannon. Put them in a plastic bag for protection.
Avoid rubbing your hands or fingers into eyes, nose, mouth etc. after a chemical attack. Stay calm.
Never hang around when bullets, gas and cannons are being deployed. These riot control agents can kill if they hit you in the wrong way and even if they don't, they can maim and hurt you horrendously. If you're so hurt that you fall down and cannot get up again, you also risk being trampled by the fleeing and terrified crowd.
omg it's like we've become exactly like iran, except without protests being violently quelled within a week through the killing of hundreds of protesters ..
America the "land of the free" or America "at least it's not Iran"
#OccupyWallStreet
Wow, what a great accomplishment. In two months, the simple act of a couple hundred of people camping out in a park has sparked a national (and even international) dialogue which has been absent for 20 years at least in America.
The power of ideas, it really is amazing to watch, and even more rewarding to be apart of.
a part or apart?
big difference, yo!
curtkram said: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/45299622/ns/today-today_news/t/occupy-protesters-police-standoff-over-new-york-camp/#.TsJ7NlZbXTo
It looks like the courts said it may not be constitutional to kick the ows people out. Tents are free speech too. Hopefully this works for them and follows through in places like Denver.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45299622/ns/us_news-life/#.TsNM6_Ld6So
Protesters' First Amendment rights don't entitle them to camp out indefinitely in the plaza, ruled New York City Supreme Court Justice Michael Stallman as he denied a motion by demonstrators seeking to re-establish their camp. (Read his ruling here.)
"Even protected speech is not equally permissible in all places and at all times," Stallman ruled.
Police cleared out protesters in a nighttime sweep early Tuesday. The judge upheld the city's effective eviction of the protesters after an emergency appeal by the National Lawyers Guild.
The protesters had been camped out in privately owned Zuccotti Park since mid-September. Mayor Michael Bloomberg said he ordered the sweep because health and safety conditions had become "intolerable" in the crowded plaza.
Apparently First Amendment rights don't guarantee members of the press the ability to do their jobs, either:
In a statement on Tuesday, the group noted that at least six journalists had been arrested, and called "for all charges against these journalists to be dropped and for greater care by police to avoid arresting or otherwise obstructing journalists who are simply and clearly doing their jobs." It also stressed that "the journalists were either wearing press credentials or explained to police that they were reporters covering the protests," and argued, "they were clearly exercising the constitutional right of a free press...it is clear now that many journalists have been erroneously arrested without cause."
The New York Press club also condemned the Bloomberg administration for its apparent efforts to block journalists from witnessing the raid. The club criticized what it said "would seem to be a strategic decision to cloak potentially volatile police activity from the public."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/15/occupy-wall-street-raid-journalists-arrested_n_1094564.html
It shouldn't matter whether or not you agree with the protests. Denying members of the press from covering a police raid should be cause for concern.
Apparently OWS doesn't want the press to be able to report on what's going on either.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI83Qxwp8DI
I agree with the guy who says do your own reasearch, don't believe what you see on TV.
Unfortunately the reports that say most of the original protesters have moved on seem to be accurate. 1 month into my local Occupy movement (which is set up about 3 blocks from where I work) and it seems like it has deteriorated entirely to the homeless, the mentally disabled, drug-addicts and other, like, rebels against society, man! It genuinely feels like the original message has been completely lost to individuals finding a common place to pass the time and promote their own grievances against whatever. Within the first week, Greenpeace was actively attempting to engage every park passer-by to sign up and/or support their organization - yep, those energetic, bright-eyed young'uns who step directly in your path so you can't ignore them. About a week later there was a large tent set up by "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth", which really doesn't seem to have anything in common with the Occupy movement past using it as a platform to promote themselves (as of today the tent is still there). Obvious drug use is everywhere, which does nothing but detract attention from the cause to the average passer-by.
I was (and still am) a firm believer in the message this has promoted, and in most major cities like NY and Toronto it seems like the message hasn't wavered at all. However, where I am I have completely lost all faith in the credibility of the local "chapter" of it and am slowly joining the side of those that just wish they would move on.
Once again, those douchebags from high school (the ones who didn't conform to anything, except whatever made them look like a rebel this week) are back to ruin the party.
Police were dumping drunks, prison releasees, mental patients, etc. at Zuccotti. Most found that they were treated much better there than they had been at various institutions and facilities.
Pretty much every way you can possibly conceive of to denigrate the movement is in full play along with a few thousand others that we have yet to discover.
“Who gave you the right to occupy America?” asked Rove to the protesters, apparently unaware of the Bill of Rights. As they repeated their slogan, “We are the 99 percent!” Rove petulantly responded, “No you’re not!” He snidely added, “You wanna keep jumping up and yelling that you’re the 99 percent? How presumptuous and arrogant can you think are!”
http://thinkprogress.org/special/2011/11/16/369694/occupy-baltimore-karl-rove/
No comment, because I'm really freakin' exhausted, but the thought of Rove getting shouted down warms my cynical heart.
where's my link, sink?
Miles, do you have any evidence for the claim that police are dumping people at Zuccotti?
http://www.salon.com/2011/10/31/city_denies_dumping_ex_cons_at_zuccotti_park/
(halfway through article ..)
But the prisoners rumor is not true, says Sharman Stein, spokeswoman for the Department of Correction.
She says it’s the policy of the city jails, which house detainees awaiting trial and those people who have sentences of one year or less, to leave off released prisoners at a transportation hub in the borough of their residence. Each day, a Department of Correction bus drops off people being released at those hubs in the five boroughs.
“In Manhattan that spot is Canal and Centre streets,” Stein says. “Now, that’s pretty close to Zuccotti. But that spot existed before Occupy Wall Street.”
Indeed, that intersection is less than 10 blocks from Zuccotti. But there’s no evidence that this practice has anything to do with Occupy, nor, for that matter, that former prisoners are the ones causing problems in the park.
Who care about Zucotti Park? Occupy Wall Street should focusing on occupying Wall Street, (if not the offices of Goldman, Morgan, etc.), yo!
I don't know why I find this photograph so unbelievably funny. Perhaps it is because those are the worst protest signs ever made!
I'll bet these two clowns get the lead story on FOX: The Counter-Revoution is Here! Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, and Coulter will say tens of thousands of patriotic Americans protested the communist dirty hippie protesters.
omg can you believe how much faux news lies?!?
Insight from abroad...
"Now, clearly there are a lot of disgruntled Americans. There’s a lot of anger… even class tensions. The OWS movement is emblematic of this sentiment for sure, but in terms of taking action, most people still believe in the political process.
All of their angst and negativity will be taken out in the voting booth. Until then, it’s the calm before the storm. But the unfortunate reality is that no matter which way the 2012 election turns out, chaos will ensue.
If President Obama wins a second term, many conservative Americans will have reached their breaking points. If a republican candidate should win, a huge portion of Americans will feel they have lost their champion.
No matter what, though, people will quickly realize that absolutely nothing has changed. They’ll recognize that the insolvency of the United States government is a simple arithmetic problem; that social security is bankrupt; that the Treasury Department is a giant Ponzi scheme; and that there is. no. recovery.
For now, Americans are still investing in the political process. Come next year, though, all the hope that’s building up will turn quickly into disappointment… and then anger. Then they’ll take that anger to the streets.
This is what happens when governments go bust. It’s happened numerous times throughout history, and it’s playing out right now from Greece to Argentina."
Read the rest of "Imminent Threat" by Simon Black at sovereignman.com
Yo!
Link again: "Imminent Threat"
Sorry, yo!
insight from abroad? i said that on page 1, two months ago yo-yo!!
there. is. no. recovery. Cash, that's a depressing thought yet feels pretty possible to me.
we. can't. be. pessimistic. we. gotta. have. faith.!
Stuff is getting crazy out there. Wonkette has an article about how the Department of Homeland Security probably had something to do with coordinating the Occupy raids throughout the country. Good to know that DHS is actually good for something, even if it is only coordinating...
And today in Portland they used pepper spray on the Occupiers for the first time when - wait for it - they tried to "occupy" a Chase branch bank. Apparently the police went in pretty hard when the protesters showed up at the bank's doorstep. I mean, the banks are the reason this all started in the first place, it actually makes sense when they protest there, but it's kind of freaky when the police show up hard like that.
Check this picture out.
All this instability is really stressful... how do we fix such a broken system?
^looks like the cops wanted a chance to show off their spiffy new riot gear
Again, Matt Taibbi called it: why aren't the police entering Chase Bank themselves to arrest all the people who destroyed our financial system? In my mind, the longer these protests keep going the more likely we are going to see public opinion move towards arresting the people who caused this problem, not the young women standing on a sidewalk in the rain.
And as the Wonkette article commenters say: Remember when Homeland Security made efforts to crack down on those armed Teabagger rallies? Yeah, I don't either...after all, who is a bigger threat to the homeland that the people who actually occupy it?
Fuck homeland security. I'd rather deal with another terrorist strike than the malignant cancer that DHS truly is. We need to bring the American citizens who ARE police, TSA, DHS employees etc. to realize that this battle is FOR them.
in seattle police pepper sprayed an 84 year old woman and a pregnant woman...
oh yeah those tea party rallies were OUT.OF.CONTROL.!
remember those teabaggers illegally assembling for months and months, pooping in planters, blocking traffic, druggin' drugs, and assaulting and raping each other? yeah, i don't either ...
There. is. no. recovery. It's not just possible, it is inevitable.
Why are bond rates such a big deal? Because they are the interest rates that governments have to pay to borrow money and right now governments are already borrowing money just to pay interest on previously borrowed money. But the rates keep creeping up and we all know that there is only one end to this and it will not be pretty. The modern western paradigm of a growth economy is at its terminal end.
The economy crashed in 2008. It's been staggering for three years now but the total collapse is near. The bankers & politicians are responsible and this is why the Wall Street should be painted red with the blood spurting out of the necks of the decapitated bankers & politicians (both Dem & Rep, btw) courtesy of the mob.
Somebody should start selling guillotines, yo!
Does not matter who you are, everybody in the 99% got touched by this derivative economic robbery.
The student loans set in a way to an unrealistic repayment, interest, penalties, fees and a predatory collection system, that hopes to generate more default and fees, taking a big chunk of our paycheck if you have one now.
The people that are dying of curable diseases for lack of universal health care in the richest country in the world, because they, the1%, tell us boohoo that the country is broke. A big chunk of our paycheck goes to pay once again for insurance companies + coo pays + rejections, etc. Lucky if we have a job now and it offers insurance for individual and or family?
The abusive interest rate that the banks post on accounts in credit repayment 32% + abusive penalties, to cause more and more default.
The unfair credit rate system that generate more interest charge on the poor.
This movement has to bring up a comprehensive reform in order to promote growth and more equality and quality of life for all.
Fuck homeland security. I'd rather deal with another terrorist strike than the malignant cancer that DHS truly is. We need to bring the American citizens who ARE police, TSA, DHS employees etc. to realize that this battle is FOR them.
totally agree donna. The problem with the police is that they are the same type of person for the most part that has those barbwire tattoos on their arms. What I am saying is that they are Alpha males (for the most part) that thrive on power and domination of others. Ex. stuffing nerds in lockers and giving wedgies to the small kids. I am not sure that many police are that bright to be honest. I am not one to say "fuck the police," because I know they play an important and necessary role in society, but lets be real about these biological and psychological factors. The police are usually content with taking orders and are the type of people that have trouble with questioning authority. They also feel that they are the authority, and believe that any opposition to authority of any kind (banks, gov't, etc.) is a direct challenge to their power, because in their minds they are the ultimate authority. Although they are in the 99%, and much of the movement is in support of their unions and against cutting spending that would hurt them, they do not see it this way. We as a society give to much credit to "grownups" we need to realise that the same dynamic of the jocks the stoners, the nerds, the minorities is still in play but now just in a different setting and with rubberbullets instead of spit balls.
yeah why would the police try to enforce the law? i mean, if they're asked to break up an unlawful assembly they should all get together and question if it's in their best interest or not. since OWS is really fighting for the police they should give OWS a pass with regard to the law.
but police are just too stupid and too full of testosterone to see the truth.
Also should add that I think there is a big difference between being intellegent and clever. A clever person can do a task well, but cannot find meaning or purpose in relation to the bigger picture of society or the universe. Clever people can be filthy rich, intellegent people would have a hard time being motivated by money alone. This is important because it illustrates the type of people in power. Clever people know how to play the game and will do anything to get ahead and stay ahead while the intellegent person is commited to specific ideology or vision and will not bend for money or position. It is the reason people like Romney are running for president over millions of smarter people. Unfortunatly our system is more easily workable if you are clever because we reward the "company man" and shun the thinker. So naturally we have a society run and owned by clever people who do not care about anything but winning and gaining things that act as proff of "success' like money and power. These things are everything to them, because if you are full of shit all of the time there is nothing else to prove your worth. So they see this OWS movement as a threat to the core of their being. I think this OWS movement is a struggle between more than just the haves and have-nots, but between the people who want more intangible things in society (clean environments, living polar bears, opportunity, equality, peace) and people who want more tangible things (money, power, property). These 2 sides will never see the world the same way. If you are motivated by money and power it is easy to get, however if your goals are to better the world or to create a better way of living, it is much harder to get into positions of wealth and power because you are always fighting against the grain.
yeah why would the police try to enforce the law? i mean, if they're asked to break up an unlawful assembly they should all get together and question if it's in their best interest or not. since OWS is really fighting for the police they should give OWS a pass with regard to the law.
No one in the military or police force should blindly act immoral. What do you think the police in Iran should do, obey orders? Why is this any different?
if the orders from above are to act unlawfully then the police officers should question and not act on those orders.
but introducing your view of what's moral or immoral is pretty much irrelevant and would be chaotic when it comes to enforcing the law.
and your clever vs. intelligent rant is LOfuckingL! (and very clever!)
Not all cops are assholes. This retired captain was arrested for standing with the protesters in NY:
http://www.metro.us/newyork/local/article/1027362--ray-lewis-retired-philadelphia-police-captain-arrested-with-occupy-wall-street
And here are some videos of the guy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QoNP5RhKnE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0R_YOZIujNg
It is almost as if the fact that abuse of credit was the cause of the financial problems has been forgotten.
Not all cops are assholes. This retired captain was arrested for standing with the protesters in NY:
You are right. Also remember the police chief that refused to evict people from their homes...(not sure where?) I know a couple cops myself and 2 out of 3 of them are not assholes, but when put in a position to maintain power (different form enforsing the law most of the time) they are in a hard position and most will fall into a group think mentality....
and your clever vs. intelligent rant is LOfuckingL! (and very clever!)
Its true. Good thing Jonas Salk was on the intellegent team or many of us would probably be dead.
tint, the abuse of credit by the large financial institutions was indeed the cause of the financial problems. Many thousand defaulted loans by people buying too much house would not have led to this breadth of problem if the banks had held on to them. The problem is those loans were then packaged up, mislabeled as high quality, then sold to pension funds against whom bets were placed that they would fail. You can't blame this problem on consumer credit.
It's a big picture and I think consumer credit is no doubt a fragment of the picture. I'm a firm believer in: wherever there's blame, there's a failure to take responsibility. No doubt banks, for some reason, decided to practice predatory lending on a sector that tends to fail to take responsibility. Now the banks are justifiably getting blamed for investing in scapegoats for profit. Not only did they over-leverage their risk to capital ratio, they over-leveraged their scapegoating to blame ratio too. They played both hands against one another and I think OWS needs to teach the banks about folding.
This is cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxbowRmzetY
This isn't:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJmmnMkuEM
Jeezus Matias that second video is awful! I looked at the first one and just felt worried for everyone involved, including the cops and the horses, but just nonchalantly spraying down a bunch of seated teenagers?! WTF. This country is so broken, and it's not going to get fixed. Sitting down asking for rights to be respected is not violent, but we're populated by a bunch of ignorant yahoos who only know how to yell or hit.
omg it's like we've become exactly like iran, except without protests being violently quelled within a week through the killing of hundreds of protesters ..
The police are scared. Revolutionary sentiment is rising. It's only a matter of time before one of these masses of protesters turns on them.
Yo.
You think the protestors are going to turn on the police? I'm thinking if there is a bunch of people sitting in a park, unarmed and unarmored, on one side and a bunch of people fully armored, with helmets, shields, pepper spray, and batons -- it's not the people sitting on their asses that are trying to stir up trouble. Matias's second video shows pretty clearly there is a fair likelihood the cops will be the aggressors that start any riots.
Well, some interesting insights from someone who retired from law enforcement (Captain) who has decided to join OWS:
http://www.observer.com/2011/11/former-philadelphia-police-captain-ray-lewis-joins-with-occupy-wall-street-protesters-video/
I think these would do the trick, but @ 129$ each, maybe a secret Santa could drop off a couple of crates to various locales.
Avoid wearing oil based moisturizer or sunscreen as chemicals cling to these on your skin. Remove with detergent-free soap before going near the riot.
Wear glasses rather than contact lenses; tear gas behind contact lenses is unimaginable pain. Swimming goggles can protect eyes, or a gas mask.
Put wet bandannas in a plastic bag and carry these for your mouth. Wrap them around your mouth if tear gas is released. They need constant replacement as they will keep soaking up the gas.
Wear vinyl or latex gloves to protect your hands from pepper spray; the nerve endings will make them feel like agony if sprayed.
Carry spare clothes to change if you're hit by chemicals or a water cannon. Put them in a plastic bag for protection.
Avoid rubbing your hands or fingers into eyes, nose, mouth etc. after a chemical attack. Stay calm.
Never hang around when bullets, gas and cannons are being deployed. These riot control agents can kill if they hit you in the wrong way and even if they don't, they can maim and hurt you horrendously. If you're so hurt that you fall down and cannot get up again, you also risk being trampled by the fleeing and terrified crowd.
Thanks for the useful information Miles, unfortunately I think it will come in handy in the future.
omg it's like we've become exactly like iran, except without protests being violently quelled within a week through the killing of hundreds of protesters ..
America the "land of the free" or America "at least it's not Iran"
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