ok everyone - i came across this earlier today. i've blanked out the crucial information to protect the guilty and otherwise have made no edits, rewrites, etc. please. to call your woefully underpaid internship a "fellowship" to your office? let the comments rain forth...
The ********* Fellowship
What's this?
The purpose of the ******** Fellowship is to offer outstanding emerging designers the opportunity to work with ******** on architecture and new media projects. For a 12 week period each summer ******** selects one recipient who will receive this valuable experience.
What do I get?
During your 12 weeks of time in our ******* studio, you will be engaged in graphic design, architecture, photography, film and web design. You will work with us on projects, as we peel back the workings of a design boutique for you to peer into. It'll be one exciting summertime experience. You also get a $1,000 stipend.
What will I be doing?
Assisting us with creative projects and endeavors. You will likely draw architecture plans, brainstorm concepts, design websites, assist with photography shoots and maybe even write a screenplay. You will share in office work too, like (gasp!) answering the phone and making copies.
What will be expected of me?
40 hour weeks, good attitude and attention to detail.
What makes a good candidate?
Self-motivation and problem solving skills are required. Your brain needs to be as much left as it is right.
When will I hear from you?
We will email you when we receive your application. Within three weeks we will contact you again concerning your application status.
Should I call?
No. Email Us if you have a question, we like email.
Who is ********?
******** is a multidisciplinary design agency located in *******, ******. We're about fresh solutions reached through the spirit of creativity and collaboration. Our team is made up of three highly trained and specialized designers. We've produced award-winning websites for creative agencies, film production companies, architecture firms and furniture designers. We're also serious boccie players.
12*40=480 hours with $1000 = $2.08 / hour to work in an office.
how sweet -- this is why i think no one should ever consider themself and intern or fellowship. call them into your local employment agency. this is a job and they need to at least pay you what mcdonalds gives..
Thats less than 1/3 of the legal minimum wage. Wonder how much thier billing your time out for. Might as well just volenteer at a firm you admire if your gonna just go for experiance cause that isn't even gonna pay for gas and lunch.
but what if it isn't a job and is more like being the office princess? the boss's friend. the way they offer it, they sell it as a reward. i only see a problem with it if it isn't as cool as it sounds and you get screwed out of a real summer's work. i would love to do this. i wonder if i'm too old by now.
related to this and the other thread about intern compensation: while none of these offices probably fall into the category of conventional professional firms (graphics/web, non-registered architectural design) there are consequences for an architecture firm which pays a rate as low as $83 a week ($1000/12 wks).
If I remember right, Eisenman actually got in trouble for this a few years ago, both with the AIA and with registration boards. It's simply unprofessional and damaging to the profession as a whole to exploit interns in this way.
If we place no value on the skills we have developed, why should the public at large?
My present employer hires summer interns at an hourly rate of $15 + OT. They get to participate in all the client meetings, eng coordination, etc. Sometimes they work with marketing. Sure, there is a lot of CAD work in there but they'll never be running prints or answering the phone. In the past we even gave them two paid vacation days. I think those aren't offered anymore but not a bad gig for a student. Typically after a summer they take home somewhere in the range of $10k, depending on how busy with OT they were. Not bad.
this guy looks a bit crazy not a fun guy i want to bust my balls for.....
"Bill is a nationally recognized architect and educator. He has won numerous design awards and accolades for his teaching. A William Carpenter building is about elegance, simplicity and fine craftsmanship"
hey he aint no eiseman...so working for shit gets you no where...BUT he is FAIA!!![perhaps the F stands for 'f-er] so those in the georgia area feel free to report his for his "elegance, simplicity and fine craftsmanship and contiunal committement to slavery and employee abuse!"
Is that unusual? I know of another local firm that hires students at $13/hr. Remember that it's 2005 out there. Kids are making more than $10/hour mowing the grass at the local high school. Don't under-estimate your knowledge or ability just because you haven't completed your degree just yet.
the only thing wrong with it is if you misunderstood what you were getting into or they pulled a bait and switch. then it would suck if you quit cause it sucked and it screwed up your summer. the ad doesn't say come be our bitch. you guys are assuming this. sounds exciting and like a good opportunity.
outside pretty bill above the " team is made up of three highly trained and specialized designers" --- those other two look like recent highschool grads.
the description of any intern office job can be sweetend up to make filing drawings out to be 'document coordinator'
You will likely draw architecture plans.02%, brainstorm concepts.005%, design websites.005%, assist with photography shoots [aka carry the bag] and maybe even write a screenplay [sure--but we did say maybe!!!]. You will share in office work too, like (gasp!) answering the phone and making copies[99% of your time!!].
i take back my post above if this is it and this is who you'll be getting into.
sorry. i thought it was an independent film company or something which would be worthwhile for arch student in his/her first summer break, living with parents. this guy seems totally into himself. stay away.
if the whole thing didn't just smack of what is wrong with our profession (hey, come hang out with us! we're cool! and you can work for nothing!!!), i would probably have laughed my ass off.
but, ultimately, it's really not that funny but incredibly pretentious. a fellowship??? renzo piano's office does a real fellowship (one where you actually get paid). this is a blatant attempt to prey on the vulnerabilites of young people in the profession. sadly, they are not the only ones who do it and it's just plain wrong.
if you need help, pay the people you hire something decent. or charge your clients more, or whatever. but $2.08 and hour to gain the honor of some made up fellowship?
this is my idea for when i start my office. i will offer a "scholarship" for a grand or so and get many hours of work that i should have to pay much more for out of some sap who is willing to work for beans. i will have beer in the fridge though. send your resume and nonrefundable portfolio(suede or leather bound only please) to ...
It's a sad cycle how people are used to working for nothing, so they'll hire for nothing. But guess that's business.
I am with vado, I'll buy the beer, you bring your "good attitude and attention to detail.".
Seriously, if people are really biting for this, my firm meets similar qualifitcations (award winning in many fields, architecture, web design, graphic design, interior design, motion graphics soon - sorry, no screen plays here...but we can pretend after we drink that beer!).
Recently, I was offered about 3.00/hr for an internship position, and if I had enough experience I could get 7.50/hr and the firm doesn't offer half as many opportunities as the one you described. Anyway, I think it is wrong and completely insulting. Good opportunity or not, interns and recent Grads shouldn’t stand for it. If we don’t say no
then firms are going to think this is acceptable. No one is under experienced enough to warrant such a wage. They can call it a stipend, wage, fellowship, or internship, either way it is ridiculous. It stands as an example of how the profession is perceived in the public and within its own community. I say keep looking I know I will!
I did work for Bill/William Carpenter for a few months, as the only employee, in his house/studio.
He was mostly out for meetings with clients and/or teaching at Savannah College of Arts and Design, so we would touch base in the morning to organize my schedule for the day, by myself.
His work is mostly residential and progressive looking, which is a true merit in Atlanta, but it really is an empty shell in intelligence. I remember him claiming that all of his projects were like one big project, which would then explain all the similarities among all the houses he designed.
I don't know how much his practice has grown now, but the prospects of being a 'fellow' in his firm/house make me smile.
Do not get me wrong: he is a nice guy, he is just not bright enough to support an architecture fellowship.
Also on a side note, my internship there sadly ended on a financial dispute -he owes me some.
There needs to be a blacklist for firms that exploit interns this way. It is an insult to the intern and to every last one of us in the profession. It drags us all down.
These firms get away with this unethical behavior not only because they are able to exploit the insecurities of interns, but because no one calls them out on it. Putting together a blacklist of these offenders would do just that and it would act as a deterent for future offenders.
if architects can not respect their own, why should anyone else. $2.08/hr is an embarrassment to the profession. and you know the fool that takes that, ahem, fellowship, willl definitely working overtime bringing his pay down to $1.39/hr.
It really is exploitation at that point. I was (lucky enough to be?) getting $12/hr my jr. year of college from a small firm. I think firms shouldn't be paying interns a huge wage but enough to cover basic living expenses. That's fair. (And isn't that the point of the minimum wage?) On the other hand, I'm not too sure how the internships are dealt with if they're being done for school credit. We never had anything like that.
It'd be especially illegal if the firm was billing the client for those hours. I've been lucky enough to work for people that treat their interns and staff quite well.
I heard Gehry's internships are completely unpaid. True?
they are probably billing them out at like $40/hour too. which is like over 28 times their pay if they are working 60 hour weeks. which i bet they proabably are working that much.
i am working 4 days a week at an unpaid internship (7monthsx($0.00 + $76 subway fare) = -$0.60/hour) i have a degree in engineering and a minor in architecture from a prestigious university and i'm hoping to be in an March program in the fall. in order to support myself i have to work four shifts a week slinging chow at trendy new yorkers. i'm a firm believer that every experience has something to add to my personal dialogue with architecture but beyond the obvious venture into restaurant design, i doubt that this is the most productive way for an intelligent young woman to be spending her "free time." how can the young and clever make their best contributions to discourse and practice if they are kept at blue collar wages?
then again, i took the job over paying positions where the work was less interesting to me. so maybe this serves as a screening process to gauge your level of enthusiasm/willingness to sacrifice...?
what i never understood is how any firm with half a brain would let you hold a second job. wouldn't they rather give you a little bit of money and have you more dedicated to your work? isn't this just bad business?
Why is it always the A$$holes that teach that seem to exploit the inexperienced? It strikes me as a complete inversion of what I expect of the ethics behind pedagogy versus practice. I got screwed over by a professor/practicing arch and eventually sued the bastard to recover my wages. My father was astounded that a university professor wouldn't be canned after treating people in such a manner. Isn't the reputation of the academy system based upon ethics?
i think you would get more respect and experience after graduation as well as earn more, if you don't take as an unpaid intern and take a paid job working construction. i doubt a contractor would hire under the guise of a "fellowship" and would be happy to take an architecture student on to show them the ropes.
e- good point. last summer i encountered a bit of resistance in the construction field (i think because ms. preceeds my name rather than mr.) but if you can offer any leads i would appreciate them.
el jeffe,
To clarify: when I worked there, the pay seemed acceptable -15/h and the hours were reasonable. Except for that last cheap trick of skipping a paycheck.
But the reason I didn't even consider suing is the same reason I left: I found a better job, in a better place, and better people.
This fellowship really sounds like a scam, as he is using a fancy professionally credible title to disguise a -very-low paid internship.
pazdon - your excuse for taking an unpaid position is what perpetuates this problem. It keeps up the stigma of this starving artist bullshit. First and foremost this is a business. We aren't running non-profits here.
what I find amazing is that people willingly work for nothing in a place like NY which has a very high cost of living. Then if you asked the same of someone in a place like Chicago they would tell you to shove it. Is the experience really that much more rewarding in a NY firm?
true ms. pazdon. the construction field can be a bit sexist. i assume you are not in seattle since you mention a subway so i can't offer you any leads, but i would say keep trying. you are obviously a determined and hard working individual. as with most male dominated industries, we are finally and fortunately seeing more women being accepted in these fields. maybe try a variety of small and large places. you might also try places like woodworking shops, etc.
i always thought that it was illegal for an architecture office to use unpaid labor. am i right about this. thought i read it somewhere. hell if you are willing to work for free why not do this...set it up as independent study so you can get some credit hours and some loan money, under the guise of professional practice or some such. fyi there are perfectionist high quality firms out there that actually do pay people.
easy A - i wouldnt call it an excuse as much as a making the best of the situation. option A: get paid to do engineering calculations and simmer in boredom, or B: dont get paid but do much cooler stuff closer to architecture. there was no option C: work for starchitect, spend leisure time being entertained at the homes of the architectural elite, dine on caviar and rare edible flowers. the starving artist thing IS bullshit and i am not. youre right, it is a business, and my classmates who majored in business have expense accounts and are buying prada sneakers. it does seem screwed up and as someone who is very new to the field (and probably dangerously idealistic/naive) i would ask those who have been working for a while: is it worth it?
pazdon, i do think A is right though. ppl who work for free in this "profession" do perpetuate the problem. your boss is billing for your time if you are working on billable projects. if he/she is making money off of you, why aren't you making money? even if your time is not billable you should get paid. you still contribute to the sucess of that place.
I was waiting for this thread to start after I read the ad for the ‘fellowship’. My favorite questions from the application….
Question 10: Do you have a laptop?
I guess they need to know because they really don’t want to get a computer for you.
Question 12: Have you ever saved anyone's life? If so, please describe. If not, please describe why not.
Who do these guys think they are?
Question 21: Draw Tippy the Turtle in the space provided.
Isn’t this question on one of those ‘get your art degree from home’ info-mercials?
Did I mention….who the hell do these guys think they are?
I’m sure the guy is nice and cool and whatever, but he’s fucking up the profession paying this kind of shitty wage. If I were to apply and be offered the ‘fellowship’ I’d want to know what I would be doing exactly. I can’t imagine that this ‘opportunity’ is going to gain you much of anything you can’t find somewhere else for money. By the way, he seems like the Bunny Lebowski of the Atlanta architecture scene because I know someone else that has had difficulty getting money from this guy.
paid internships and other fairy tales
ok everyone - i came across this earlier today. i've blanked out the crucial information to protect the guilty and otherwise have made no edits, rewrites, etc. please. to call your woefully underpaid internship a "fellowship" to your office? let the comments rain forth...
The ********* Fellowship
What's this?
The purpose of the ******** Fellowship is to offer outstanding emerging designers the opportunity to work with ******** on architecture and new media projects. For a 12 week period each summer ******** selects one recipient who will receive this valuable experience.
What do I get?
During your 12 weeks of time in our ******* studio, you will be engaged in graphic design, architecture, photography, film and web design. You will work with us on projects, as we peel back the workings of a design boutique for you to peer into. It'll be one exciting summertime experience. You also get a $1,000 stipend.
What will I be doing?
Assisting us with creative projects and endeavors. You will likely draw architecture plans, brainstorm concepts, design websites, assist with photography shoots and maybe even write a screenplay. You will share in office work too, like (gasp!) answering the phone and making copies.
What will be expected of me?
40 hour weeks, good attitude and attention to detail.
What makes a good candidate?
Self-motivation and problem solving skills are required. Your brain needs to be as much left as it is right.
When will I hear from you?
We will email you when we receive your application. Within three weeks we will contact you again concerning your application status.
Should I call?
No. Email Us if you have a question, we like email.
Who is ********?
******** is a multidisciplinary design agency located in *******, ******. We're about fresh solutions reached through the spirit of creativity and collaboration. Our team is made up of three highly trained and specialized designers. We've produced award-winning websites for creative agencies, film production companies, architecture firms and furniture designers. We're also serious boccie players.
end of the announcement.
whats wrong with that?
yeah i don't get it
12*40=480 hours with $1000 = $2.08 / hour to work in an office.
how sweet -- this is why i think no one should ever consider themself and intern or fellowship. call them into your local employment agency. this is a job and they need to at least pay you what mcdonalds gives..
Hmmm,
12weeks x 40 hours = 480hours
$1000/480hours= $2.08/Hr.
Thats less than 1/3 of the legal minimum wage. Wonder how much thier billing your time out for. Might as well just volenteer at a firm you admire if your gonna just go for experiance cause that isn't even gonna pay for gas and lunch.
but what if it isn't a job and is more like being the office princess? the boss's friend. the way they offer it, they sell it as a reward. i only see a problem with it if it isn't as cool as it sounds and you get screwed out of a real summer's work. i would love to do this. i wonder if i'm too old by now.
related to this and the other thread about intern compensation: while none of these offices probably fall into the category of conventional professional firms (graphics/web, non-registered architectural design) there are consequences for an architecture firm which pays a rate as low as $83 a week ($1000/12 wks).
If I remember right, Eisenman actually got in trouble for this a few years ago, both with the AIA and with registration boards. It's simply unprofessional and damaging to the profession as a whole to exploit interns in this way.
If we place no value on the skills we have developed, why should the public at large?
g-love - do tell us who is this gawddamned cheap.
My present employer hires summer interns at an hourly rate of $15 + OT. They get to participate in all the client meetings, eng coordination, etc. Sometimes they work with marketing. Sure, there is a lot of CAD work in there but they'll never be running prints or answering the phone. In the past we even gave them two paid vacation days. I think those aren't offered anymore but not a bad gig for a student. Typically after a summer they take home somewhere in the range of $10k, depending on how busy with OT they were. Not bad.
WHOA REALLY?
wow
its really a scam, give them a call strawbery, http://lightroom.tv/fellowship/
this guy looks a bit crazy not a fun guy i want to bust my balls for.....
"Bill is a nationally recognized architect and educator. He has won numerous design awards and accolades for his teaching. A William Carpenter building is about elegance, simplicity and fine craftsmanship"
hey he aint no eiseman...so working for shit gets you no where...BUT he is FAIA!!![perhaps the F stands for 'f-er] so those in the georgia area feel free to report his for his "elegance, simplicity and fine craftsmanship and contiunal committement to slavery and employee abuse!"
its one kid. for one summer.
Is that unusual? I know of another local firm that hires students at $13/hr. Remember that it's 2005 out there. Kids are making more than $10/hour mowing the grass at the local high school. Don't under-estimate your knowledge or ability just because you haven't completed your degree just yet.
the only thing wrong with it is if you misunderstood what you were getting into or they pulled a bait and switch. then it would suck if you quit cause it sucked and it screwed up your summer. the ad doesn't say come be our bitch. you guys are assuming this. sounds exciting and like a good opportunity.
Ted - they don't like phone calls. Maybe I will e-mail them.
it really is bait and switch big time!!
outside pretty bill above the " team is made up of three highly trained and specialized designers" --- those other two look like recent highschool grads.
the description of any intern office job can be sweetend up to make filing drawings out to be 'document coordinator'
You will likely draw architecture plans.02%, brainstorm concepts.005%, design websites.005%, assist with photography shoots [aka carry the bag] and maybe even write a screenplay [sure--but we did say maybe!!!]. You will share in office work too, like (gasp!) answering the phone and making copies[99% of your time!!].
well i guess they are being honest ...... sort of
i take back my post above if this is it and this is who you'll be getting into.
sorry. i thought it was an independent film company or something which would be worthwhile for arch student in his/her first summer break, living with parents. this guy seems totally into himself. stay away.
but if it really did suck and you were making $2 an hour you could quit and spread bad words about them.
nobody can escape the eternal justice of ARCHINECT (ending with an echo)..
nothing can be that good to justify $2 [even in the south] -- it looks like they are working out of someones house doing poxy things.
so i say "LETS JUST TRASH THEM HERE AND NOW AND PUT A STOP TO IT BEFORE IT STARTS!!!"
be a slave but only for the a big fish who can look out for you long term.
if the whole thing didn't just smack of what is wrong with our profession (hey, come hang out with us! we're cool! and you can work for nothing!!!), i would probably have laughed my ass off.
but, ultimately, it's really not that funny but incredibly pretentious. a fellowship??? renzo piano's office does a real fellowship (one where you actually get paid). this is a blatant attempt to prey on the vulnerabilites of young people in the profession. sadly, they are not the only ones who do it and it's just plain wrong.
if you need help, pay the people you hire something decent. or charge your clients more, or whatever. but $2.08 and hour to gain the honor of some made up fellowship?
aaarrrgghhh.......
this is my idea for when i start my office. i will offer a "scholarship" for a grand or so and get many hours of work that i should have to pay much more for out of some sap who is willing to work for beans. i will have beer in the fridge though. send your resume and nonrefundable portfolio(suede or leather bound only please) to ...
this guy needs a taste of my not invisible hand.
thats bullsh*t
but if you want it on your resume that bad.... :X
"We're about fresh solutions reached through the spirit of creativity and collaboration."
This sentence made me throw up in my mouth.
It's a sad cycle how people are used to working for nothing, so they'll hire for nothing. But guess that's business.
I am with vado, I'll buy the beer, you bring your "good attitude and attention to detail.".
Seriously, if people are really biting for this, my firm meets similar qualifitcations (award winning in many fields, architecture, web design, graphic design, interior design, motion graphics soon - sorry, no screen plays here...but we can pretend after we drink that beer!).
Recently, I was offered about 3.00/hr for an internship position, and if I had enough experience I could get 7.50/hr and the firm doesn't offer half as many opportunities as the one you described. Anyway, I think it is wrong and completely insulting. Good opportunity or not, interns and recent Grads shouldn’t stand for it. If we don’t say no
then firms are going to think this is acceptable. No one is under experienced enough to warrant such a wage. They can call it a stipend, wage, fellowship, or internship, either way it is ridiculous. It stands as an example of how the profession is perceived in the public and within its own community. I say keep looking I know I will!
I did work for Bill/William Carpenter for a few months, as the only employee, in his house/studio.
He was mostly out for meetings with clients and/or teaching at Savannah College of Arts and Design, so we would touch base in the morning to organize my schedule for the day, by myself.
His work is mostly residential and progressive looking, which is a true merit in Atlanta, but it really is an empty shell in intelligence. I remember him claiming that all of his projects were like one big project, which would then explain all the similarities among all the houses he designed.
I don't know how much his practice has grown now, but the prospects of being a 'fellow' in his firm/house make me smile.
Do not get me wrong: he is a nice guy, he is just not bright enough to support an architecture fellowship.
Also on a side note, my internship there sadly ended on a financial dispute -he owes me some.
There needs to be a blacklist for firms that exploit interns this way. It is an insult to the intern and to every last one of us in the profession. It drags us all down.
These firms get away with this unethical behavior not only because they are able to exploit the insecurities of interns, but because no one calls them out on it. Putting together a blacklist of these offenders would do just that and it would act as a deterent for future offenders.
Perhaps the guys at www.insidearch.org]www.insidearch.org]www.insidearch.org would be interested in hosting the blacklist?
if architects can not respect their own, why should anyone else. $2.08/hr is an embarrassment to the profession. and you know the fool that takes that, ahem, fellowship, willl definitely working overtime bringing his pay down to $1.39/hr.
It really is exploitation at that point. I was (lucky enough to be?) getting $12/hr my jr. year of college from a small firm. I think firms shouldn't be paying interns a huge wage but enough to cover basic living expenses. That's fair. (And isn't that the point of the minimum wage?) On the other hand, I'm not too sure how the internships are dealt with if they're being done for school credit. We never had anything like that.
It'd be especially illegal if the firm was billing the client for those hours. I've been lucky enough to work for people that treat their interns and staff quite well.
I heard Gehry's internships are completely unpaid. True?
it does not mention getting school credit for the "fellowship" and you bet they are billing the client if this intern works on billable projects.
they are probably billing them out at like $40/hour too. which is like over 28 times their pay if they are working 60 hour weeks. which i bet they proabably are working that much.
i am working 4 days a week at an unpaid internship (7monthsx($0.00 + $76 subway fare) = -$0.60/hour) i have a degree in engineering and a minor in architecture from a prestigious university and i'm hoping to be in an March program in the fall. in order to support myself i have to work four shifts a week slinging chow at trendy new yorkers. i'm a firm believer that every experience has something to add to my personal dialogue with architecture but beyond the obvious venture into restaurant design, i doubt that this is the most productive way for an intelligent young woman to be spending her "free time." how can the young and clever make their best contributions to discourse and practice if they are kept at blue collar wages?
then again, i took the job over paying positions where the work was less interesting to me. so maybe this serves as a screening process to gauge your level of enthusiasm/willingness to sacrifice...?
pazdon -
what i never understood is how any firm with half a brain would let you hold a second job. wouldn't they rather give you a little bit of money and have you more dedicated to your work? isn't this just bad business?
Why is it always the A$$holes that teach that seem to exploit the inexperienced? It strikes me as a complete inversion of what I expect of the ethics behind pedagogy versus practice. I got screwed over by a professor/practicing arch and eventually sued the bastard to recover my wages. My father was astounded that a university professor wouldn't be canned after treating people in such a manner. Isn't the reputation of the academy system based upon ethics?
i feel better now.
i think you would get more respect and experience after graduation as well as earn more, if you don't take as an unpaid intern and take a paid job working construction. i doubt a contractor would hire under the guise of a "fellowship" and would be happy to take an architecture student on to show them the ropes.
e- good point. last summer i encountered a bit of resistance in the construction field (i think because ms. preceeds my name rather than mr.) but if you can offer any leads i would appreciate them.
el jeffe,
To clarify: when I worked there, the pay seemed acceptable -15/h and the hours were reasonable. Except for that last cheap trick of skipping a paycheck.
But the reason I didn't even consider suing is the same reason I left: I found a better job, in a better place, and better people.
This fellowship really sounds like a scam, as he is using a fancy professionally credible title to disguise a -very-low paid internship.
pazdon - your excuse for taking an unpaid position is what perpetuates this problem. It keeps up the stigma of this starving artist bullshit. First and foremost this is a business. We aren't running non-profits here.
what I find amazing is that people willingly work for nothing in a place like NY which has a very high cost of living. Then if you asked the same of someone in a place like Chicago they would tell you to shove it. Is the experience really that much more rewarding in a NY firm?
true ms. pazdon. the construction field can be a bit sexist. i assume you are not in seattle since you mention a subway so i can't offer you any leads, but i would say keep trying. you are obviously a determined and hard working individual. as with most male dominated industries, we are finally and fortunately seeing more women being accepted in these fields. maybe try a variety of small and large places. you might also try places like woodworking shops, etc.
and/or,
good for you for skipping at the first sign of money trouble.
i stuck around too long until the guy was in the hole to me for $10K.
i always thought that it was illegal for an architecture office to use unpaid labor. am i right about this. thought i read it somewhere. hell if you are willing to work for free why not do this...set it up as independent study so you can get some credit hours and some loan money, under the guise of professional practice or some such. fyi there are perfectionist high quality firms out there that actually do pay people.
easy A - i wouldnt call it an excuse as much as a making the best of the situation. option A: get paid to do engineering calculations and simmer in boredom, or B: dont get paid but do much cooler stuff closer to architecture. there was no option C: work for starchitect, spend leisure time being entertained at the homes of the architectural elite, dine on caviar and rare edible flowers. the starving artist thing IS bullshit and i am not. youre right, it is a business, and my classmates who majored in business have expense accounts and are buying prada sneakers. it does seem screwed up and as someone who is very new to the field (and probably dangerously idealistic/naive) i would ask those who have been working for a while: is it worth it?
pazdon, i do think A is right though. ppl who work for free in this "profession" do perpetuate the problem. your boss is billing for your time if you are working on billable projects. if he/she is making money off of you, why aren't you making money? even if your time is not billable you should get paid. you still contribute to the sucess of that place.
I was waiting for this thread to start after I read the ad for the ‘fellowship’. My favorite questions from the application….
Question 10: Do you have a laptop?
I guess they need to know because they really don’t want to get a computer for you.
Question 12: Have you ever saved anyone's life? If so, please describe. If not, please describe why not.
Who do these guys think they are?
Question 21: Draw Tippy the Turtle in the space provided.
Isn’t this question on one of those ‘get your art degree from home’ info-mercials?
Did I mention….who the hell do these guys think they are?
I’m sure the guy is nice and cool and whatever, but he’s fucking up the profession paying this kind of shitty wage. If I were to apply and be offered the ‘fellowship’ I’d want to know what I would be doing exactly. I can’t imagine that this ‘opportunity’ is going to gain you much of anything you can’t find somewhere else for money. By the way, he seems like the Bunny Lebowski of the Atlanta architecture scene because I know someone else that has had difficulty getting money from this guy.
no, he is not a nice and cool guy. if he were, he'd pay you a reasonable wage.
el jeffe,
$10K is a lot of money.
How long did you have to work there before becoming suspicious and quit?
Good eye, flannelmouth
I think this what the "Bunny Lebowski of the Atlanta architecture scene" is trying to disguise into:
http://www.msafdie.com/fellowship_poster/fellowship_poster.pdf
yeah but that rug really pulled the room together.
e: Excellent point, and that is exactly why I won't be applying for the scam.
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