trump and hillary are both neoliberal imperialists; trump just happens to be less warm and fuzzy. the differences between the two, as presidents, would be marginal at best.
Actually, Trump is probably the first candidate for President we've had in a long time who isn't a neoliberal shill for elite global capital. Why do you think the establishment hate him so much?
One thing that the dilbert guy can't quite explain - he has already said that he would fight trump if he actually believes the policies he espouses (example: eliminating muslims from the US). conversely, dilbert guy says he can read trumps mind (IE: "trump has other ideas that he will flesh out later, ideas that don't sound so wacky, ideas that are real policies) and then in the next breath dilbert guy says he can't read trumps mind. then, dilbert guy goes on to tell us all about trumps ability for persuasion - yet, my experience is that the more trump tries to persuade me, and the people I know, the less we like him. Maybe you call this "cognitive dissonance" but that's just an insult to say that my experience and thoughts are less worthy than your own. dilbert guy himself says that experience creates reality, and therefore as a "moist robot" I'm going with my own programming, not his and certainly not trumps.
Let's say that trump is good at persuasion. Is that a job qualification, and more importantly, is it the most important job qualification for president? Could it be that he's so abrasive that he will create real and long lasting problems for the united states?
dilbert guy says that if you don't like trump and think he's an idiot, then you subscribe to a "lucky hitler" philosophy. I'm just going to come out and say that I don't know if Trump is a bad guy like hitler was. Who knows. But I do know that bad ideas are bad, and bad actions are also bad.
I've seen Trump and his supporters do nasty things and I could never support, and if you have an ounce of caring for your fellow man you'd also not be able to support them. No amount of 'persuasion' would convince me otherwise.
He also uses a healthy dose of sexism and rah-rah bro logic to belittle anyone he feels isn't as manly as trump. I'm pretty comfortable in my masculinity, or lack thereof. I don't really think it degrades me to vote for someone other than trump, especially if I think they'll do a better job. Again, I don't think we know enough about what trump is capable of, and we wouldn't want any of those problems. Best to vote for someone else.
"Let's say that trump is good at persuasion. Is that a job qualification, and more importantly, is it the most important job qualification for president?"
Actually, the answer to that is probably "yes." What is the President's job? Leadership. Leadership means persuading (and motivating) people to follow.
And it's also the President's job to represent the interests of the United States with (and against) foreign powers. The biggest part of doing that is ALSO persuasion.
Our last four Presidents have been pretty uniformly horrible at both those things. Particularly the last two.
Republicans don't seem to live in the same world I do:
"Our last four Presidents have been pretty uniformly horrible at both those things. Particularly the last two."
Seriously? Both Bush and Obama have accomplished very large things. Even if you don't agree with them you have to admit they did it. Bush (who I really disliked) managed to persuade everyone that Saddam Hussain had WMD. Was his persuasion a good thing? I don't think so. Obama managed to persuade enough people to vote for a health care bill - even if you don't agree with it, you have to admit it is the first one that actually passed. I think most republicans would think that the health care bill is not a good thing (I disagree) but even they have to admit that Obama is good at persuasion.
I do think Trump is good at it, but for what end?
I think anyone who is scared of immigrants or muslims is just a scared little wet pantsed rabbit hiding under the bed. Funny how the gun people are also the most scared.
I remember being scared of other people, then I grew up.
You guys are hitting the cognitive dissonance trifecta here. You might also want to look up psychological projection too, since that seems to be working overtime in this thread as well.
And gruen: just FYI, I am not a Republican. Never have been and never will be. It's pretty funny that you can't get past your own bigotry to see that, but instead feel like you have to run through a litany of your tribe's trigger words to try and disqualify what I'm saying by associating me with a bunch of random shit that haunts you.
Trump is only concerned with one thing: Trump. He's playing every angle and will win big no matter what he does as long as it is not winning an election. In fact that's pretty much the only way he can lose. I can't see him doing even 10% of what's required to be president, especially kissing ass or taking one for the team. Congress would lock up him up so tight he wouldn't be able to breathe.
My bet is he'll play kingmaker and come out smelling like a rose with a suitcase full of favors.
situationist: if you try, you might be able to squeeze a little more pseudo-intellectual word salad into your posting.
Hey - If you didn't want to talk developmental psychology, you shouldn't have brought up cognitive disequilibrium. I'm wondering if you actually know anything about this subject... hmmm...
However - I still like your idea of the great wall of mexico built by illegal immigrants. Just a little concerned about cost.
any guy who wants to make a building Gold that is visbile from the UN, should probably not be president. but his advisor, architect Costas Kondylis, through the process of democracy - asking Trump to talk to his driver, cleaning lady, the help - Trump agreed to make it Black. Costas was inspired (his career) by Mies' Seagram building......take the architecture story however you like politically1
The instructors in the $1,495 course told students to fill out forms detailing their personal assets. The ostensible purpose was so that the instructors could counsel them on the best investments. The real purpose, according to court filings, was to ascertain whether they might be targets for the Elite $34,995 up-sell or for less expensive Silver or Gold up-sells. The instructors told their students to contact their credit card companies during a lunch break in order to get their credit limits raised–not so that they could buy properties, as the script said they were to be told, but so that they could charge the mentorship programs to those credit cards.
Ever been inside Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue in NYC? The atrium lobby has the exact same materials palette as a 1980s-era Sbarro Pizzeria at your local mall food court.
Read about the contruction, mob connections, illegal immigrant labor at $4 an hour, destruction of historic deco statuary, etc., etc. not to mention the $164 million tax abatement ... As far as being crooked goes, this guy makes career politicians look like amatuers.
The refreshing thing about trump is that you at least know he's in it for personal gain. He's a business man and not a politician. The rest are bullshitters
in that regard Trump is honest. he still lives in the cocaine snorting wolf of wall street all mirror bedroom walls with gold leaf Versailles knock off trim. the purpose of the mirrors is a) to snort coke an b) see the hookers ass from all angles. it is refreshing to have someone who expresses their douchebaggery so clearly.
donkey dick hotels. the next Trump thang..........so was in a Trump building the other day. i respect their non standard operations but - Trump baby flip the bill for some sound attenuation insulation.....was trying to survey a corridor and all I could hear was angry Hatian Creole (French dialect) from some apartment......and dude Delta home depot faucets in an reno - come on man!
I'm sticking with this Trump as a republican front theory.
The Palin endorsement really sticks with what I'm thinking. Republicans have a way to attract and then jettison the crazy individuals that have been ruining the party. Palin was largely seen as the rock that sunk the the McCain ticket. God forbid she come out to endorse a real candidate and do that kind of damage again.
This way she gets some media attention, excites her demographic, the spotlight continues to stay off other candidates and when trump fades the ones who are left are not directly associated with her brand of crazy, but all her supporters are nevertheless engaged and motivated to vote for a conservative candidate.
Also trump is willing to go along with this because he will get to play king maker as mentioned earlier and his brand get greater exposure.
Everyone wins! Except Democrats and the Country and the World.
Nate Silver has admitted he was fudging his predictions about Trump's chances based on a personal bias that GOP party insiders were going to do anything to stop him, and has started backtracking on his predictions to cover himself:
^ THIS SUPPORTS MY THEORY. Republicans actually support trump and see no reason to actively oppose him right now. Not for reasons of making him the nominee, but rather that he deflects attention from other candidates.
Mark my words this will change significantly after the or at the first Caucus in Iowa.
"For months, the press and the Republican establishment alike have been expecting the Trump bubble to implode. Now that it's clear Trump isn't going anywhere, we're seeing stories about a long slog of a campaign or even a brokered convention. But there's a very real possibility that, far from those kinds of days of reckoning, Donald Trump could actually "run the table." Ironically, Trump not only could win — he could win more decisively than any non-incumbent Republican contestant for the nomination since the dawn of the modern primary system."
^ Keep dreaming. Trump will broker the convention and walk away with more party favors than a girl at her sweet sixteen.
Assume he takes the republican nomination or runs as an independent. Now all bets are off, and he risks actually losing - no way, Jose. How can he be a winner if he loses a national election? The Don an also ran? He'll never take that chance, there's no reward.
Aside from the fact that he'd have to give up all his corporate interests due to conflict of interest - that will never happen, especially not for a highly stressful job that only pays $400k. This is a guy who is not interested in working. He'll bullshit you to death, but actually working? That's for peons.
The only way he can lose is to actually try to win the election. Trump is a guy who plays all the angles so he can be certain of victory no matter how things turn out. He won't put himself in a situation where he can only lose, which is exactly what would happen if he really runs and especially if he wins.
It's possible he runs as an indy but only if he doesn't get the buyout he wants from the RNC, and even then it would only be for leverage. He'd fold for the witch or whatever turd the republicans put up according to who gives him the better deal. Brinkmanship, baby.
If nothing else, that article illustrates how the GOP continues to eat itself alive. At this point I'm amazed they haven't fractured into two or more minor parties.
LOL Miles. "Trump will drop out of he wins because if he wins he loses." ... or something.
Every single thing Trump has done indicates he's in it to win it all. And yet you continue to believe some bizarre conspiracy theory that he's a faux candidate who's going to magically drop out as soon as he sweeps the primaries.
Somebody here is dreaming, but it ain't me.
I've been following Trump's career for a long time. He's had his ups and downs, but there is literally nothing at all in his past track record to suggest that the scenario you are proposing is at all likely. Nor is there anything in his background or personality that suggests he is stupid enough to throw away a historic primary victory because of some kind of crisis of confidence over the general election or a payout from the RNC (who hate his guts and don't have that kind of money anyway).
There are many different kinds of payoffs. The Don will bow out before the whole thing blows up in his face, which it will if they ever start looking closely at his history.
tduds, the republicans have fractured into multiple parties - libertarian, tea party, republican and democrat.
Meaning what? He gets 90% of the popular vote instead of 62%?
If anybody winds up "bowing out" of this election, it's going to be Hillary, who is now not only facing the prospect of going up against The Donald mano a mano (and facing all his oppo research on her shady dealings), but also the likelihood of felony prosecution over her email server, her legendary unlikeability, and the very real possibility that she'll have another massive stroke during the campaign.
And Bernie will be roadkill under the Trump Train faster than you can say #BlackLivesMatter.
Miles: I don't automatically assume that people who disagree with me are stupid, for one thing. Nor am I in the habit of mistaking eloquence or social signalling for intelligence. Those are both bad habits that come from lazy thinking, and I try to avoid them if possible.
More to the point, if you think somebody is an idiot, that leaves two possible options:
1) You are smarter than they are, or,
2) You are dumber than they are and don't realize it.
Now, if you are so much smarter than Donald Trump, why aren't you a billionaire who is defying the entire elite establishment of our political system and all of their various apparatchiks and easily beating them at their own game?
I don't automatically assume that people who disagree with me are stupid
Main difference between gwharton and Donald Trump.
if you are so much smarter than Donald Trump, why aren't you a billionaire who is defying the entire elite establishment of our political system and all of their various apparatchiks and easily beating them at their own game?
Because I didn't inherit $100million from my daddy and I'm not sociopathic enough to think I'm worth the attention.
Architects for TRUMP
situationist: if you try, you might be able to squeeze a little more pseudo-intellectual word salad into your posting. But good effort anyway.
trump and hillary are both neoliberal imperialists; trump just happens to be less warm and fuzzy. the differences between the two, as presidents, would be marginal at best.
Keep telling yourself that.
Actually, Trump is probably the first candidate for President we've had in a long time who isn't a neoliberal shill for elite global capital. Why do you think the establishment hate him so much?
One thing that the dilbert guy can't quite explain - he has already said that he would fight trump if he actually believes the policies he espouses (example: eliminating muslims from the US). conversely, dilbert guy says he can read trumps mind (IE: "trump has other ideas that he will flesh out later, ideas that don't sound so wacky, ideas that are real policies) and then in the next breath dilbert guy says he can't read trumps mind. then, dilbert guy goes on to tell us all about trumps ability for persuasion - yet, my experience is that the more trump tries to persuade me, and the people I know, the less we like him. Maybe you call this "cognitive dissonance" but that's just an insult to say that my experience and thoughts are less worthy than your own. dilbert guy himself says that experience creates reality, and therefore as a "moist robot" I'm going with my own programming, not his and certainly not trumps.
Let's say that trump is good at persuasion. Is that a job qualification, and more importantly, is it the most important job qualification for president? Could it be that he's so abrasive that he will create real and long lasting problems for the united states?
dilbert guy says that if you don't like trump and think he's an idiot, then you subscribe to a "lucky hitler" philosophy. I'm just going to come out and say that I don't know if Trump is a bad guy like hitler was. Who knows. But I do know that bad ideas are bad, and bad actions are also bad.
I've seen Trump and his supporters do nasty things and I could never support, and if you have an ounce of caring for your fellow man you'd also not be able to support them. No amount of 'persuasion' would convince me otherwise.
He also uses a healthy dose of sexism and rah-rah bro logic to belittle anyone he feels isn't as manly as trump. I'm pretty comfortable in my masculinity, or lack thereof. I don't really think it degrades me to vote for someone other than trump, especially if I think they'll do a better job. Again, I don't think we know enough about what trump is capable of, and we wouldn't want any of those problems. Best to vote for someone else.
"Let's say that trump is good at persuasion. Is that a job qualification, and more importantly, is it the most important job qualification for president?"
Actually, the answer to that is probably "yes." What is the President's job? Leadership. Leadership means persuading (and motivating) people to follow.
And it's also the President's job to represent the interests of the United States with (and against) foreign powers. The biggest part of doing that is ALSO persuasion.
Our last four Presidents have been pretty uniformly horrible at both those things. Particularly the last two.
Republicans don't seem to live in the same world I do:
"Our last four Presidents have been pretty uniformly horrible at both those things. Particularly the last two."
Seriously? Both Bush and Obama have accomplished very large things. Even if you don't agree with them you have to admit they did it. Bush (who I really disliked) managed to persuade everyone that Saddam Hussain had WMD. Was his persuasion a good thing? I don't think so. Obama managed to persuade enough people to vote for a health care bill - even if you don't agree with it, you have to admit it is the first one that actually passed. I think most republicans would think that the health care bill is not a good thing (I disagree) but even they have to admit that Obama is good at persuasion.
I do think Trump is good at it, but for what end?
I think anyone who is scared of immigrants or muslims is just a scared little wet pantsed rabbit hiding under the bed. Funny how the gun people are also the most scared.
I remember being scared of other people, then I grew up.
Hitler was persuasive to a lot of people as well, but that doesn't mean one of his admirers deserves to be elected president.
Hitler and fear and sexism, Oh My!
You guys are hitting the cognitive dissonance trifecta here. You might also want to look up psychological projection too, since that seems to be working overtime in this thread as well.
And gruen: just FYI, I am not a Republican. Never have been and never will be. It's pretty funny that you can't get past your own bigotry to see that, but instead feel like you have to run through a litany of your tribe's trigger words to try and disqualify what I'm saying by associating me with a bunch of random shit that haunts you.
0_o I still don't understand what is the "Trump"!
Donald J. Trump. The next President of the United States.
This guy:
Trump is only concerned with one thing: Trump. He's playing every angle and will win big no matter what he does as long as it is not winning an election. In fact that's pretty much the only way he can lose. I can't see him doing even 10% of what's required to be president, especially kissing ass or taking one for the team. Congress would lock up him up so tight he wouldn't be able to breathe.
My bet is he'll play kingmaker and come out smelling like a rose with a suitcase full of favors.
Hey, it's only business.
Your new overlords will be your old overlords. They just rotate the front man occasionally to try and deceive you.
Trump =Front man=Same overlords as always.
situationist: if you try, you might be able to squeeze a little more pseudo-intellectual word salad into your posting.
Hey - If you didn't want to talk developmental psychology, you shouldn't have brought up cognitive disequilibrium. I'm wondering if you actually know anything about this subject... hmmm...
However - I still like your idea of the great wall of mexico built by illegal immigrants. Just a little concerned about cost.
Miles got it right!
who cars! Obama, Clinton or Trump... it's all the same
Hopefully the great wall of Mexico will attract foreign tourism.
the mexicans will pay for it situationist. problem solved.
any guy who wants to make a building Gold that is visbile from the UN, should probably not be president. but his advisor, architect Costas Kondylis, through the process of democracy - asking Trump to talk to his driver, cleaning lady, the help - Trump agreed to make it Black. Costas was inspired (his career) by Mies' Seagram building......take the architecture story however you like politically1
Someone said, "Aww. There are his (DT's) 4th, 5th and 6th wives. Bless this fine nation!".
http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/lil-donald
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPRfP_TEQ-g
A word made up by trump supporters to critisize those who do not like trump.
The instructors in the $1,495 course told students to fill out forms detailing their personal assets. The ostensible purpose was so that the instructors could counsel them on the best investments. The real purpose, according to court filings, was to ascertain whether they might be targets for the Elite $34,995 up-sell or for less expensive Silver or Gold up-sells. The instructors told their students to contact their credit card companies during a lunch break in order to get their credit limits raised–not so that they could buy properties, as the script said they were to be told, but so that they could charge the mentorship programs to those credit cards.
Trump University
Get used to that gold reflective glass...
and bad brass fixtures and hardware
Ever been inside Trump Tower on Fifth Avenue in NYC? The atrium lobby has the exact same materials palette as a 1980s-era Sbarro Pizzeria at your local mall food court.
his material pallette makes me want to vomit.
Read about the contruction, mob connections, illegal immigrant labor at $4 an hour, destruction of historic deco statuary, etc., etc. not to mention the $164 million tax abatement ... As far as being crooked goes, this guy makes career politicians look like amatuers.
Hey, it's just business.
in that regard Trump is honest. he still lives in the cocaine snorting wolf of wall street all mirror bedroom walls with gold leaf Versailles knock off trim. the purpose of the mirrors is a) to snort coke an b) see the hookers ass from all angles. it is refreshing to have someone who expresses their douchebaggery so clearly.
donkey dick hotels. the next Trump thang..........so was in a Trump building the other day. i respect their non standard operations but - Trump baby flip the bill for some sound attenuation insulation.....was trying to survey a corridor and all I could hear was angry Hatian Creole (French dialect) from some apartment......and dude Delta home depot faucets in an reno - come on man!
btw 'donkey dick' is a construction term with regard to pouring concrete. google it.
trump: climate change is a conspiracy created by the Chinese to gain an edge on the global market.
Here's some cognitive dissonance for you all. Go.
I couldn't believe Trump actually said that. I had to look that up after Bernie mentioned it in the debate. The willful ignorance is stunning.
if so, the Chinese are doing a bad job of it.
"climate change - you're doing it wrong"
I'm sticking with this Trump as a republican front theory.
The Palin endorsement really sticks with what I'm thinking. Republicans have a way to attract and then jettison the crazy individuals that have been ruining the party. Palin was largely seen as the rock that sunk the the McCain ticket. God forbid she come out to endorse a real candidate and do that kind of damage again.
This way she gets some media attention, excites her demographic, the spotlight continues to stay off other candidates and when trump fades the ones who are left are not directly associated with her brand of crazy, but all her supporters are nevertheless engaged and motivated to vote for a conservative candidate.
Also trump is willing to go along with this because he will get to play king maker as mentioned earlier and his brand get greater exposure.
Everyone wins! Except Democrats and the Country and the World.
Nate Silver has admitted he was fudging his predictions about Trump's chances based on a personal bias that GOP party insiders were going to do anything to stop him, and has started backtracking on his predictions to cover himself:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/one-big-reason-to-be-less-skeptical-of-trump/
^ THIS SUPPORTS MY THEORY. Republicans actually support trump and see no reason to actively oppose him right now. Not for reasons of making him the nominee, but rather that he deflects attention from other candidates.
Mark my words this will change significantly after the or at the first Caucus in Iowa.
TheWeek: Donald Trump is Poised for the Strongest Primary Performance in Modern History
"For months, the press and the Republican establishment alike have been expecting the Trump bubble to implode. Now that it's clear Trump isn't going anywhere, we're seeing stories about a long slog of a campaign or even a brokered convention. But there's a very real possibility that, far from those kinds of days of reckoning, Donald Trump could actually "run the table." Ironically, Trump not only could win — he could win more decisively than any non-incumbent Republican contestant for the nomination since the dawn of the modern primary system."
^ Keep dreaming. Trump will broker the convention and walk away with more party favors than a girl at her sweet sixteen.
Assume he takes the republican nomination or runs as an independent. Now all bets are off, and he risks actually losing - no way, Jose. How can he be a winner if he loses a national election? The Don an also ran? He'll never take that chance, there's no reward.
Aside from the fact that he'd have to give up all his corporate interests due to conflict of interest - that will never happen, especially not for a highly stressful job that only pays $400k. This is a guy who is not interested in working. He'll bullshit you to death, but actually working? That's for peons.
The only way he can lose is to actually try to win the election. Trump is a guy who plays all the angles so he can be certain of victory no matter how things turn out. He won't put himself in a situation where he can only lose, which is exactly what would happen if he really runs and especially if he wins.
It's possible he runs as an indy but only if he doesn't get the buyout he wants from the RNC, and even then it would only be for leverage. He'd fold for the witch or whatever turd the republicans put up according to who gives him the better deal. Brinkmanship, baby.
Hey, it's just business.
If nothing else, that article illustrates how the GOP continues to eat itself alive. At this point I'm amazed they haven't fractured into two or more minor parties.
LOL Miles. "Trump will drop out of he wins because if he wins he loses." ... or something.
Every single thing Trump has done indicates he's in it to win it all. And yet you continue to believe some bizarre conspiracy theory that he's a faux candidate who's going to magically drop out as soon as he sweeps the primaries.
Somebody here is dreaming, but it ain't me.
I've been following Trump's career for a long time. He's had his ups and downs, but there is literally nothing at all in his past track record to suggest that the scenario you are proposing is at all likely. Nor is there anything in his background or personality that suggests he is stupid enough to throw away a historic primary victory because of some kind of crisis of confidence over the general election or a payout from the RNC (who hate his guts and don't have that kind of money anyway).
There are many different kinds of payoffs. The Don will bow out before the whole thing blows up in his face, which it will if they ever start looking closely at his history.
tduds, the republicans have fractured into multiple parties - libertarian, tea party, republican and democrat.
"Blows up in his face"
Meaning what? He gets 90% of the popular vote instead of 62%?
If anybody winds up "bowing out" of this election, it's going to be Hillary, who is now not only facing the prospect of going up against The Donald mano a mano (and facing all his oppo research on her shady dealings), but also the likelihood of felony prosecution over her email server, her legendary unlikeability, and the very real possibility that she'll have another massive stroke during the campaign.
And Bernie will be roadkill under the Trump Train faster than you can say #BlackLivesMatter.
^ Funny, when it comes to architecture you appear to be a smart guy.
"Say what you will about Trump, he is not stupid. He is a smart man with a deep understanding of what stupid people want."
-- Andy Borowitz
Palin Endorsement Widens Trump’s Lead Among Idiots
Miles: I don't automatically assume that people who disagree with me are stupid, for one thing. Nor am I in the habit of mistaking eloquence or social signalling for intelligence. Those are both bad habits that come from lazy thinking, and I try to avoid them if possible.
More to the point, if you think somebody is an idiot, that leaves two possible options:
1) You are smarter than they are, or,
2) You are dumber than they are and don't realize it.
Now, if you are so much smarter than Donald Trump, why aren't you a billionaire who is defying the entire elite establishment of our political system and all of their various apparatchiks and easily beating them at their own game?
I don't automatically assume that people who disagree with me are stupid
Main difference between gwharton and Donald Trump.
if you are so much smarter than Donald Trump, why aren't you a billionaire who is defying the entire elite establishment of our political system and all of their various apparatchiks and easily beating them at their own game?
Because I didn't inherit $100million from my daddy and I'm not sociopathic enough to think I'm worth the attention.
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