We all know pay for new graduates and architects starting out can be pretty low, let alone job prospects. Do any of you hold or are working towards a second job, profession or source of income to survive? If so, what do you do?
I love architecture as a profession and want to do it because I love the challenges and demands that come with it, but hate the uncertainty and low pay when starting out. I've started looking into other ways to supplement my income, and hoping to find something that might even act as the primary source of income so I can focus on architecture with a peace of mind and do it because I love it, not because I need to hold on to a job or because I need to pay next month's rent.
LITS4FormZ
Apr 7, 14 8:52 pm
Marry well and architecture becomes highly manageable
snail
Apr 7, 14 9:39 pm
I've thought about it before, but right now I'm too busy with my current architecture job. I could see it happening in the future when I (hopefully) start my own firm. Teaching and running a practice is of course the classic example, and one thing which I would also want to do, but hopefully some of us can be creative enough to imagine other options too.
bowling_ball
Apr 8, 14 12:14 am
I started teaching this year, and the money helped. Unfortunately it's not a dependable second income for me yet. I've started thinking about moonlighting from time to time but the realist in me says I'm way too tired at the end of an 8 or 9 hour work day, and I enjoy my free time a little more than I would making a few more bucks a week.
archanonymous
Apr 8, 14 12:48 pm
I have started doing this and am quite torn on whether it is worth the effort. It also seems as though some Architects are dismissive of anyone who designs things other than buildings, so I am also a bit worried about damaging future career prospects.
I worked with my fiance (also a designer) to design a few pieces each of some jewelry and fashion pieces, furniture, dining, and lighting. I am selling them the old-fashioned way, pestering shops with samples or consignment pieces until they order a larger run, also selling on my own e-commerce site, and (for the small fashion pieces) at Shapeways and i.materialise.
It is a ton of work to setup and manage a limited corporation, do shipping and order fullfillment, design pieces, produce the ones I produce in house, manage fabrication for larger pieces, etc, etc, etc... I am probably not making anything close to the hourly pay I do at my day job. I am hoping that if this grows, it can evolve into offering building and interior design services as well, and maybe become my sole source of income, but I'm not expecting it to.
mightyaa
Apr 8, 14 3:38 pm
I don't consider it a job exactly. But even when established, the cash flow comes and goes. So I own my commercial building and property manage it for rental income. Know several architects who do this with houses or condos: Buy, fix up, rent. A couple I know also flip houses on the side though it's getting hard to secure loans to do this and they are getting sick of living in construction dust.
When I was starting off, I did the same; bought cheap, fixed it up, sold it, bought another, etc. Made more doing that than I did in architecture. (then the economy crashed... )
theexpertinstitute
Jul 21, 15 5:48 pm
I wanted to share some information on another side income opportunity for experienced architects – that is working with law firms on litigation matters as an expert witness.
I think your readers would find this information quite valuable as there isn’t much information available on this niche industry. Full disclosure, I help operate an expert witness platform in NY. Our service is completely free for experts and anyone can apply to join our network.
Any professional with extensive experience in architecture can serve as an expert witness. The length of these opportunities can range from a few months to over a year and with fees paying $300 – $500 per hour on average. It’s a great way to generate extra side income while still pursuing a full-time career.
I’m always available to discuss in more detail. Please reach out to me directly if you have any questions.
My real estate plans have been foiled by wife/kids, looking for something else to supplement. I love my job but don't want to get screwed in a crash someday
Volunteer
Oct 6, 16 11:58 am
The estates of Saarinen, van der Rohe, Bruer, and Wright are doing quite well with furniture and design sales.
william wynne
Oct 7, 16 8:59 am
Marry well fellows, or teach.
Driko
Oct 7, 16 5:17 pm
drive for lyft
Wilma Buttfit
Oct 7, 16 6:22 pm
Wanna buy a car wash
geezertect
Oct 8, 16 10:25 am
A nice big piece of cardboard, a new magic marker, and a good street corner. A cute puppy at your side to break the ice will help as well.
citizen
Oct 8, 16 12:21 pm
Millionaire playboy/ philanthropist
archiwutm8
Oct 8, 16 12:42 pm
This thread is really discouraging me going back to architecture....thanks lads.
N.TW
Oct 8, 16 5:08 pm
"I love architecture as a profession and want to do it because I love the challenges and demands that come with it, but hate the uncertainty and low pay when starting out. I've started looking into other ways to supplement my income, and hoping to find something that might even act as the primary source of income so I can focus on architecture with a peace of mind and do it because I love it, not because I need to hold on to a job or because I need to pay next month's rent."
I think some comments above are a little extreme. And this forum is well known for these kinds of responses. But there is a grain of truth in them.
I started working a little over a year ago. I just think you are going to have to choose one thing or the other. Read your paragraph above again--it reads to me with two conflicting premises. (1) You want to do architecture for the "love" and (2) You want to do architecture "as a profession."
If something else is your primary source of income, you won't have enough time to "focus on architecture." Sure you want to do it because you "love it" but you can't have it all.
In my experience there will be a majority of hours where you forgot how much you "love it." It just takes a lot of slogging through things but there are moments which make it worthwhile. What you are proposing sounds more like a hobby rather than a profession. Which is fine--I just think you have to choose to stick out some difficult times (for years) or forget about making a true career out of it.
DeTwan
Oct 8, 16 6:27 pm
And your naivety shines thur at the moment you said "Ive been working little over a year"....
Try 5-10years in the industry and a recession or "downturn" or two in the economy and then talk.
geezertect
Oct 8, 16 7:46 pm
Great hobby, lousy profession.
Superfluous Squirrel
Oct 8, 16 7:56 pm
Why does everyone complain about not making any money in Architecture? It's not hard to make 40-50K right out of school, that's pretty good money. Do you know how much teachers make right out of school? 25-29K. The average family income in the US is around 53K. If you can't survive on that right out of school without a family to support you're doing something wrong.
N.TW
Oct 8, 16 11:31 pm
I didn't realize five-ten years experience was a prerequisite for posting on an internet forum...mainly I posted because I find archinect is often a place to work out pity/depression issues rather than engaging in constructive conversation.
In any case I know it's helpful for the OP to have perspective from someone else in a similar position in this industry. It's also valuable for others with more experience to comment if they can sometimes drop the tired total sarcasm routine.
Maybe you could tell us more of your story DeTwan.
accesskb
Oct 9, 16 1:55 am
shuellmi - Yes, I have an online venture now which pays me upwards of $900/hr. I invested about a year learning on my freetime and setting up my business. Business has been running for 10 months only so it doesn't provide me a full-time pay yet buts its pretty fine for supplement income right now and for how little time I put on it now. I'm just getting started though and have barely scratched the surface. It will only get better. Business is already picking up. Last weekend, I earned $2700 for 3 hrs of my time. :) btw This is work I could easily outsource to someone else for $15/hr btw but don't see the need yet as I'm not swamped with work yet.
As relieved as I am that I'm on my way to becoming financially independent, I'm also kicking myself for not getting into software engineering like my brother did. Talked to my younger brother today and he says new university grads in his field are currently getting paid 200-250k for their first job. He is constantly turning down 500k/yr offers from Apple, Google, FB, Air BnB, Uber etc. Its almost like we in the architecture profession live in a bubble and say 40k-50k is pretty good money for the effort we put in. xDD
How much do new architecture grads get today anyways? still the same rate as 15 yrs ago?
geezertect
Oct 10, 16 9:00 am
btw This is work I could easily outsource to someone else for $15/hr btw but don't see the need yet as I'm not swamped with work yet.
If it can be easily outsourced to someone else that cheaply, you'd better enjoy it while you can because sooner or later someone is going to figure things out and eliminate you.
s=r*(theta)
Oct 10, 16 12:53 pm
Absolutely! As soon as I finish the A.R.E. I plan to get back to my second job until i dont have to
Josh Mings
Oct 10, 16 2:15 pm
I got 40k when I started in 2012. 4 years and a license later, I'm close to doubling that (when taking into account base + profit sharing and bonus).
s=r*(theta)
Oct 10, 16 5:10 pm
^ Josh you seem to be at the rite place at the rite time my friend
Josh Mings
Oct 10, 16 5:17 pm
Yeah, kind of lucked out with where I'm at even with the headaches and long hours. But hey, I still have paid overtime (until I'm promoted two more times).
Does make me wonder how things will work once a recession hits again and that profit sharing and bonus start to dwindle.
archiwutm8
Oct 11, 16 5:03 am
Learn to use Revit $$$$$$
JLC-1
Oct 11, 16 10:21 am
run a ponzi scheme..... what is it with this young people wanting to have it all at 22? where did the work ethic go? I think I know, but it's too damn discouraging to write it here.
3tk
Oct 11, 16 4:03 pm
JLC-1, the motivated hard workers are out there, it's just that the others haven't been easy to weed out.
JLC-1
Oct 11, 16 4:28 pm
It also has to do with "role models" and how they're being marketed to the youngsters, we live in strange times, where wasteful luxuries are seen as success.
We all know pay for new graduates and architects starting out can be pretty low, let alone job prospects. Do any of you hold or are working towards a second job, profession or source of income to survive? If so, what do you do?
I love architecture as a profession and want to do it because I love the challenges and demands that come with it, but hate the uncertainty and low pay when starting out. I've started looking into other ways to supplement my income, and hoping to find something that might even act as the primary source of income so I can focus on architecture with a peace of mind and do it because I love it, not because I need to hold on to a job or because I need to pay next month's rent.
Marry well and architecture becomes highly manageable
I've thought about it before, but right now I'm too busy with my current architecture job. I could see it happening in the future when I (hopefully) start my own firm. Teaching and running a practice is of course the classic example, and one thing which I would also want to do, but hopefully some of us can be creative enough to imagine other options too.
I started teaching this year, and the money helped. Unfortunately it's not a dependable second income for me yet. I've started thinking about moonlighting from time to time but the realist in me says I'm way too tired at the end of an 8 or 9 hour work day, and I enjoy my free time a little more than I would making a few more bucks a week.
I have started doing this and am quite torn on whether it is worth the effort. It also seems as though some Architects are dismissive of anyone who designs things other than buildings, so I am also a bit worried about damaging future career prospects.
I worked with my fiance (also a designer) to design a few pieces each of some jewelry and fashion pieces, furniture, dining, and lighting. I am selling them the old-fashioned way, pestering shops with samples or consignment pieces until they order a larger run, also selling on my own e-commerce site, and (for the small fashion pieces) at Shapeways and i.materialise.
It is a ton of work to setup and manage a limited corporation, do shipping and order fullfillment, design pieces, produce the ones I produce in house, manage fabrication for larger pieces, etc, etc, etc... I am probably not making anything close to the hourly pay I do at my day job. I am hoping that if this grows, it can evolve into offering building and interior design services as well, and maybe become my sole source of income, but I'm not expecting it to.
I don't consider it a job exactly. But even when established, the cash flow comes and goes. So I own my commercial building and property manage it for rental income. Know several architects who do this with houses or condos: Buy, fix up, rent. A couple I know also flip houses on the side though it's getting hard to secure loans to do this and they are getting sick of living in construction dust.
When I was starting off, I did the same; bought cheap, fixed it up, sold it, bought another, etc. Made more doing that than I did in architecture. (then the economy crashed... )
I wanted to share some information on another side income opportunity for experienced architects – that is working with law firms on litigation matters as an expert witness.
I think your readers would find this information quite valuable as there isn’t much information available on this niche industry. Full disclosure, I help operate an expert witness platform in NY. Our service is completely free for experts and anyone can apply to join our network.
We have a page dedicated to architecture on our website where you’ll find a variety of helpful resources, case studies and experts – https://www.theexpertinstitute.com/expert-witness/architect/
Any professional with extensive experience in architecture can serve as an expert witness. The length of these opportunities can range from a few months to over a year and with fees paying $300 – $500 per hour on average. It’s a great way to generate extra side income while still pursuing a full-time career.
I’m always available to discuss in more detail. Please reach out to me directly if you have any questions.
Best regards,
Michael Morgenstern
VP, Marketing
(646) 478-9916
http://www.theexpertinstitute.com
Being an architect is just a hobby for the rich.
accesskb - did you ever find anything you liked?
My real estate plans have been foiled by wife/kids, looking for something else to supplement. I love my job but don't want to get screwed in a crash someday
The estates of Saarinen, van der Rohe, Bruer, and Wright are doing quite well with furniture and design sales.
Marry well fellows, or teach.
drive for lyft
Wanna buy a car wash
A nice big piece of cardboard, a new magic marker, and a good street corner. A cute puppy at your side to break the ice will help as well.
Millionaire playboy/ philanthropist
This thread is really discouraging me going back to architecture....thanks lads.
"I love architecture as a profession and want to do it because I love the challenges and demands that come with it, but hate the uncertainty and low pay when starting out. I've started looking into other ways to supplement my income, and hoping to find something that might even act as the primary source of income so I can focus on architecture with a peace of mind and do it because I love it, not because I need to hold on to a job or because I need to pay next month's rent."
I think some comments above are a little extreme. And this forum is well known for these kinds of responses. But there is a grain of truth in them.
I started working a little over a year ago. I just think you are going to have to choose one thing or the other. Read your paragraph above again--it reads to me with two conflicting premises. (1) You want to do architecture for the "love" and (2) You want to do architecture "as a profession."
If something else is your primary source of income, you won't have enough time to "focus on architecture." Sure you want to do it because you "love it" but you can't have it all.
In my experience there will be a majority of hours where you forgot how much you "love it." It just takes a lot of slogging through things but there are moments which make it worthwhile. What you are proposing sounds more like a hobby rather than a profession. Which is fine--I just think you have to choose to stick out some difficult times (for years) or forget about making a true career out of it.
And your naivety shines thur at the moment you said "Ive been working little over a year"....
Try 5-10years in the industry and a recession or "downturn" or two in the economy and then talk.
Great hobby, lousy profession.
Why does everyone complain about not making any money in Architecture? It's not hard to make 40-50K right out of school, that's pretty good money. Do you know how much teachers make right out of school? 25-29K. The average family income in the US is around 53K. If you can't survive on that right out of school without a family to support you're doing something wrong.
I didn't realize five-ten years experience was a prerequisite for posting on an internet forum...mainly I posted because I find archinect is often a place to work out pity/depression issues rather than engaging in constructive conversation.
In any case I know it's helpful for the OP to have perspective from someone else in a similar position in this industry. It's also valuable for others with more experience to comment if they can sometimes drop the tired total sarcasm routine.
Maybe you could tell us more of your story DeTwan.
shuellmi - Yes, I have an online venture now which pays me upwards of $900/hr. I invested about a year learning on my freetime and setting up my business. Business has been running for 10 months only so it doesn't provide me a full-time pay yet buts its pretty fine for supplement income right now and for how little time I put on it now. I'm just getting started though and have barely scratched the surface. It will only get better. Business is already picking up. Last weekend, I earned $2700 for 3 hrs of my time. :) btw This is work I could easily outsource to someone else for $15/hr btw but don't see the need yet as I'm not swamped with work yet.
As relieved as I am that I'm on my way to becoming financially independent, I'm also kicking myself for not getting into software engineering like my brother did. Talked to my younger brother today and he says new university grads in his field are currently getting paid 200-250k for their first job. He is constantly turning down 500k/yr offers from Apple, Google, FB, Air BnB, Uber etc. Its almost like we in the architecture profession live in a bubble and say 40k-50k is pretty good money for the effort we put in. xDD
How much do new architecture grads get today anyways? still the same rate as 15 yrs ago?
btw This is work I could easily outsource to someone else for $15/hr btw but don't see the need yet as I'm not swamped with work yet.
If it can be easily outsourced to someone else that cheaply, you'd better enjoy it while you can because sooner or later someone is going to figure things out and eliminate you.
Absolutely! As soon as I finish the A.R.E. I plan to get back to my second job until i dont have to
I got 40k when I started in 2012. 4 years and a license later, I'm close to doubling that (when taking into account base + profit sharing and bonus).
^ Josh you seem to be at the rite place at the rite time my friend
Yeah, kind of lucked out with where I'm at even with the headaches and long hours. But hey, I still have paid overtime (until I'm promoted two more times).
Does make me wonder how things will work once a recession hits again and that profit sharing and bonus start to dwindle.
Learn to use Revit $$$$$$
run a ponzi scheme..... what is it with this young people wanting to have it all at 22? where did the work ethic go? I think I know, but it's too damn discouraging to write it here.
JLC-1, the motivated hard workers are out there, it's just that the others haven't been easy to weed out.
It also has to do with "role models" and how they're being marketed to the youngsters, we live in strange times, where wasteful luxuries are seen as success.