Tell that to the page in the agreements with clients where the office will be billing double for a licensed person versus an intern.
Wilma Buttfit
Mar 7, 17 9:01 pm
^ double? Doubt it.
Wilma Buttfit
Mar 7, 17 9:08 pm
The biggest raise I got was when someone decided they needed me, not just somebody. There's no competition for being me. Woot.
D75201
Mar 7, 17 9:58 pm
I've seen my offices agreements: PA's are billed just unde double an Intern and PM's just over double...
Non Sequitur
Mar 7, 17 10:13 pm
You don't become pa just by getting a license either and since you clearly don't understand billings vs costs vs salary, I sincerely doubt you're the type of staff that will make the move to real PA.
D75201
Mar 7, 17 10:43 pm
Yeah, and if you haven't understood the point I'm making, then I'd be surprised if you had.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 6:22 am
D7, I understood your comment very well. It's not my fault you don't.
DTL DWG
Mar 8, 17 6:48 am
You got your license? You are fired! I suppose you think because you passed exams you are smarter today that yesterday? you can run a business now? you can get work? blah. go back to drafting and reading code......good morning!
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 7:31 am
Cheers Max.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 8:27 am
How do you know I'm not already operating something of my own? I wasn't saying I demanded a raise, this is why I'll likely go somewhere else. This also isn't my first office job. Goodness, you old-timers get so cranky so quick. If you don't like the qualifications for license, don't get mad at us, get mad at NCARB. If you don't want anyone working as an Archtect for you that isn't fit for it, then make sure they all have 20 years experience after they've gotten their license. Makes no difference to me. If you seriously expect people to be licensed and still be your interns though, then you're the one with the problem. Have a good day everyone.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 8:36 am
So let's say yesterday you weren't licensed and were happy drafting up washroom tile elevations but by tomorrow, you'll have a license. Who then will draft those elevations? Surely not you since you now command twice the salary.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 9:47 am
Precisely why I go work somewhere else and you hire a new Intern.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 9:47 am
Precisely why I go work somewhere else and you hire a new Intern.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 9:49 am
...and somehow, by the simple acquisition of a license you're now worth more to another employer? That's not how things work.
curtkram
Mar 8, 17 1:14 pm
I disagree with that NS. he was hired as someone with let's say 1 year experience. now he has let's say 5 years experience. if he wants a 5 years experience job, he has to get hired somewhere that wants to hire someone with 5 years experience rather than somewhere that wants to hire someone with 1 year experience.
curtkram
Mar 8, 17 1:15 pm
he's not worth more that he was yesterday due to the license, but he is worth more than he was a few years ago, as long as he spent those years learning how to be a better architect.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 9:58 am
Then why even bother having the license at all? Why do you bother having one? Why have a system for it? Why give anyone the title if you, in your supreme wisdom, don't think anyone who earns it is worthy of treating like one?
What is it that you expect someone to do for you to treat them like a professional when you are clearly unwilling to do so by your own responses? Since you seem to have all the answers, lets hear them.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 11:01 am
Because salary is proportionate to your abilities, not the amount of certificats hanging on your wall.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 11:16 am
Is that what you tell an authority when you submit your plans? "Don't worry about whether I am licensed or not, just gaze upon my abilities."
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 11:32 am
I am licensed but that's not the reason why I
manage large projects. Try to keep the pace.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 11:48 am
So if you were not licensed, you would do everything you do now in the same exact capacity? Because I don't believe you if you say "yes".
SneakyPete
Jun 9, 17 12:22 pm
Happens all the time. I've had managers who weren't licensed and they were too close to retirement to bother. They knew just as much about the profession and had the same skill set as the licensed folks.
Wilma Buttfit
Mar 8, 17 10:03 am
I like to draw bathroom elevations, everyone can give them all to me!
D75201
Mar 8, 17 10:12 am
Well that's good, since according to Non Sequitor, your qualifications don't matter a single bit.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 11:02 am
Tintt's qualifications matter very much and I'm sure she understands perfectly well how office costs, billings, and staff salaries work.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 11:17 am
A license is a qualification, you have indicated you don't care about it.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 11:23 am
Intern starts working in Non Sequitors office, only ever draws washroom tile elevations, gets licensed, only "ability" is to draw washroom tile elevations, because, that's all Non Sequitor allows them to do, so architect only draws washroom tile elevations because they are only ever asked to draw washroom tile elevations. Non Sequitor complains that nobody understands how an office works or how to do anything other than washroom tile elevations, says it's their fault. Makes sense.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 11:34 am
Allow is too harsh. Some people just don't have the chops, even with a license, to dig themselves out of intern abilities. If you didn't chase the experience prior to licence, why would you automatically assume you can now participate with the rest?
D75201
Mar 8, 17 11:44 am
By your logic, everyone with more ability than you should earn more, but that also isn't how it works ultimately, and you wouldn't like that either. This is pointless though. Have a great day and best of luck to you.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 11:54 am
With logic like yours, it is not I that needs luck.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 11:56 am
No, you obviously do, since you feel so butt-hurt and threatened by anyone trying to get their license. Get back to answering your phone calls and emails since you're busy managing such massive projects. I'll get back to drawing these washroom tile elevations. Cheers, little man!
Wilma Buttfit
Mar 8, 17 11:59 am
I was billed out at $130 an hour as an intern. I'm super excited to think I can be billing at double that as soon as I get my paperwork (exams done just waiting on paper.)
D75201
Mar 8, 17 12:01 pm
Good lord. Your office is clearly more proud of all of it's employees than where I am.
Wilma Buttfit
Mar 8, 17 12:27 pm
Even with 0 years of experience my billable rate was $80. Those firms were very well established and had a lot of overhead to pay for. What is your billable rate, D?
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 12:30 pm
Little man? Really?
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 12:34 pm
Tintt, let's not forget the cost to the employer. It's fine to bill your clients (if contract is hourly and not lump sum) per hour worked... but if you take 3 times as long as someone else at lower cost, where does the extra money come from?
D75201
Mar 8, 17 12:42 pm
tintt,
Interns here are all billed at the same rate, last agreement I saw it was $70/hr. Next bump up is Project Coordinators, followed by Project Architects, Managers, etc. etc.
think_again
Mar 8, 17 10:11 am
probably not because the more I go over the ARE, the less interesting it becomes.
Chuck71
Mar 8, 17 11:30 am
When I got licenced (not in the USA), it made absolutely no difference at all.
My situation was that I was doing so much work that I had my colleagues under pressure to keep up, in what was a multi disciplinary office.
Still, when head office rang, the half a side of a conversation I heard was "why is X still employed? We need to cut costs".
After a few months of more of that I gave up and quit for something else.Didn't make much of a difference though.
20 years on though...having stuck at it, paid now way more that I was, and involved in a mega project, working for the contract administrators team.
I'm one of the few who will give a straight answer to any question, when our designers talk BS.
tduds
Mar 8, 17 12:05 pm
Having a license doesn't automatically entitle you to opportunities, but not having a license can automatically disqualify you from them.
I think that's what everyone in here is trying to say, but for whatever reason they don't realize we all mostly agree.
D75201
Mar 8, 17 12:59 pm
I would agree with this.
curtkram
Mar 8, 17 1:18 pm
hmm. i replied in a post with an 8:27am timestamp, but i believe it gets lost because new isn't the bottom anymore. change sucks.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 1:31 pm
and then I came here looking for said reply... only not to be directed to the bottom. Something about 1y vs 5y experience and related compensation I recall (deleted email notification). I'd agree to that but that's assuming his experience and project commitments increased.
archdad
Mar 8, 17 2:17 pm
This topic resurfacing while we see all of the "kids" posting about what graduate schools they've been accepted( or not) to for Fall of 2017. It makes me worried for those that seek out AND earn spots at the top schools only to be saddled with huge amounts of debt to repay for expected modest salary for most.
QUESTION for the experienced leaders in your firms...do you pay a newly licensed architect the same if they went to Columbia/GSD/Penn versus a 2nd or 3rd tier school? Assuming all other factors are close.
Non Sequitur
Mar 8, 17 2:33 pm
Although I am not involved in salaries in my office, the school of the applicant holds no merit. Only billable skills and experience count when considering starting salary.
calebehly1
Jun 10, 17 8:50 pm
true, but in the same light these students are going to actual design firms(besides the ones who suck)......
geezertect
Mar 8, 17 2:40 pm
You're "worth" whatever the forces of supply and demand say you're worth. Having a license doesn't make you suddenly smarter, per se, but it does qualify you for job descriptions specifying "architect" rather than "designer" or some other euphemism. The reason to get a license is for your NEXT job, when the prospective employer will use it as a screening device since they don't really know anything about you. Let's face it, the whole employment system is a shot in the dark for both employer and employee. It's not fair. Neither is life.
I got licensed earlier this spring and have been doing some higher paid interior design work since then. It is also more fun and less work. Something seems off about that but I can't complain.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 7, 17 8:00 pm
Thanks Rick. Doing just furniture and finishes is the game and I'm having fun. Might get to do some staging too.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 7, 17 9:16 pm
By staging I mean making a house on the market look good for a buyer. But we'll see, hasn't happened yet...
Miles Jaffe
Jun 7, 17 9:29 pm
The proper term is fluffing. In a hot market there is demand for house fluffers.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 7, 17 10:25 pm
Soon to extend services to the Australian market... or not.
Miles Jaffe
Jun 8, 17 12:15 am
Porn movies use fluffers, too.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 8, 17 8:17 am
Mikes, does it pay well?
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 8, 17 8:18 am
Miles*
Miles Jaffe
Jun 8, 17 9:26 am
Dunno, I was the one getting fluffed.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 8, 17 11:12 am
Well I hope you were paid well.
Miles Jaffe
Jun 8, 17 5:20 pm
I get fluffed before meeting new clients.
Wilma Buttfit
Jun 9, 17 8:14 am
Ah! Hence the new higher billable rate. Makes sense to me!
s=r*(theta)
Jun 9, 17 11:14 am
YEP!!!
( o Y o )
Jun 9, 17 1:10 pm
A raise? I expect the commissions to start falling like rain. Magazine features, having to pick and choose which clients to turn down, hobnobbing with celebs and red carpet events.
s=r*(theta)
Jun 9, 17 1:12 pm
^ All that also, a round of root beers for everyone! even the bitter at heart!
:D!
Josh Mings
Jun 9, 17 2:15 pm
I still find it kind of great that someone has an old school sext as a screen name.
JeromeS
Jun 9, 17 2:52 pm
I thought i was the only one who picked up on that...
Well, do you?
Tell that to the page in the agreements with clients where the office will be billing double for a licensed person versus an intern.
^ double? Doubt it.
The biggest raise I got was when someone decided they needed me, not just somebody. There's no competition for being me. Woot.
I've seen my offices agreements: PA's are billed just unde double an Intern and PM's just over double...
You don't become pa just by getting a license either and since you clearly don't understand billings vs costs vs salary, I sincerely doubt you're the type of staff that will make the move to real PA.
Yeah, and if you haven't understood the point I'm making, then I'd be surprised if you had.
D7, I understood your comment very well. It's not my fault you don't.
You got your license? You are fired! I suppose you think because you passed exams you are smarter today that yesterday? you can run a business now? you can get work? blah. go back to drafting and reading code......good morning!
Cheers Max.
How do you know I'm not already operating something of my own? I wasn't saying I demanded a raise, this is why I'll likely go somewhere else. This also isn't my first office job. Goodness, you old-timers get so cranky so quick. If you don't like the qualifications for license, don't get mad at us, get mad at NCARB. If you don't want anyone working as an Archtect for you that isn't fit for it, then make sure they all have 20 years experience after they've gotten their license. Makes no difference to me. If you seriously expect people to be licensed and still be your interns though, then you're the one with the problem. Have a good day everyone.
So let's say yesterday you weren't licensed and were happy drafting up washroom tile elevations but by tomorrow, you'll have a license. Who then will draft those elevations? Surely not you since you now command twice the salary.
Precisely why I go work somewhere else and you hire a new Intern.
Precisely why I go work somewhere else and you hire a new Intern.
...and somehow, by the simple acquisition of a license you're now worth more to another employer? That's not how things work.
I disagree with that NS. he was hired as someone with let's say 1 year experience. now he has let's say 5 years experience. if he wants a 5 years experience job, he has to get hired somewhere that wants to hire someone with 5 years experience rather than somewhere that wants to hire someone with 1 year experience.
he's not worth more that he was yesterday due to the license, but he is worth more than he was a few years ago, as long as he spent those years learning how to be a better architect.
Then why even bother having the license at all? Why do you bother having one? Why have a system for it? Why give anyone the title if you, in your supreme wisdom, don't think anyone who earns it is worthy of treating like one?
What is it that you expect someone to do for you to treat them like a professional when you are clearly unwilling to do so by your own responses? Since you seem to have all the answers, lets hear them.
Because salary is proportionate to your abilities, not the amount of certificats hanging on your wall.
Is that what you tell an authority when you submit your plans? "Don't worry about whether I am licensed or not, just gaze upon my abilities."
I am licensed but that's not the reason why I manage large projects. Try to keep the pace.
So if you were not licensed, you would do everything you do now in the same exact capacity? Because I don't believe you if you say "yes".
Happens all the time. I've had managers who weren't licensed and they were too close to retirement to bother. They knew just as much about the profession and had the same skill set as the licensed folks.
I like to draw bathroom elevations, everyone can give them all to me!
Well that's good, since according to Non Sequitor, your qualifications don't matter a single bit.
Tintt's qualifications matter very much and I'm sure she understands perfectly well how office costs, billings, and staff salaries work.
A license is a qualification, you have indicated you don't care about it.
Intern starts working in Non Sequitors office, only ever draws washroom tile elevations, gets licensed, only "ability" is to draw washroom tile elevations, because, that's all Non Sequitor allows them to do, so architect only draws washroom tile elevations because they are only ever asked to draw washroom tile elevations. Non Sequitor complains that nobody understands how an office works or how to do anything other than washroom tile elevations, says it's their fault. Makes sense.
Allow is too harsh. Some people just don't have the chops, even with a license, to dig themselves out of intern abilities. If you didn't chase the experience prior to licence, why would you automatically assume you can now participate with the rest?
By your logic, everyone with more ability than you should earn more, but that also isn't how it works ultimately, and you wouldn't like that either. This is pointless though. Have a great day and best of luck to you.
With logic like yours, it is not I that needs luck.
No, you obviously do, since you feel so butt-hurt and threatened by anyone trying to get their license. Get back to answering your phone calls and emails since you're busy managing such massive projects. I'll get back to drawing these washroom tile elevations. Cheers, little man!
I was billed out at $130 an hour as an intern. I'm super excited to think I can be billing at double that as soon as I get my paperwork (exams done just waiting on paper.)
Good lord. Your office is clearly more proud of all of it's employees than where I am.
Even with 0 years of experience my billable rate was $80. Those firms were very well established and had a lot of overhead to pay for. What is your billable rate, D?
Little man? Really?
Tintt, let's not forget the cost to the employer. It's fine to bill your clients (if contract is hourly and not lump sum) per hour worked... but if you take 3 times as long as someone else at lower cost, where does the extra money come from?
tintt,
Interns here are all billed at the same rate, last agreement I saw it was $70/hr. Next bump up is Project Coordinators, followed by Project Architects, Managers, etc. etc.
probably not because the more I go over the ARE, the less interesting it becomes.
When I got licenced (not in the USA), it made absolutely no difference at all.
My situation was that I was doing so much work that I had my colleagues under pressure to keep up, in what was a multi disciplinary office.
Still, when head office rang, the half a side of a conversation I heard was "why is X still employed? We need to cut costs".
After a few months of more of that I gave up and quit for something else.Didn't make much of a difference though.
20 years on though...having stuck at it, paid now way more that I was, and involved in a mega project, working for the contract administrators team.
I'm one of the few who will give a straight answer to any question, when our designers talk BS.
Having a license doesn't automatically entitle you to opportunities, but not having a license can automatically disqualify you from them.
I think that's what everyone in here is trying to say, but for whatever reason they don't realize we all mostly agree.
I would agree with this.
hmm. i replied in a post with an 8:27am timestamp, but i believe it gets lost because new isn't the bottom anymore. change sucks.
and then I came here looking for said reply... only not to be directed to the bottom. Something about 1y vs 5y experience and related compensation I recall (deleted email notification). I'd agree to that but that's assuming his experience and project commitments increased.
This topic resurfacing while we see all of the "kids" posting about what graduate schools they've been accepted( or not) to for Fall of 2017. It makes me worried for those that seek out AND earn spots at the top schools only to be saddled with huge amounts of debt to repay for expected modest salary for most.
QUESTION for the experienced leaders in your firms...do you pay a newly licensed architect the same if they went to Columbia/GSD/Penn versus a 2nd or 3rd tier school? Assuming all other factors are close.
Although I am not involved in salaries in my office, the school of the applicant holds no merit. Only billable skills and experience count when considering starting salary.
true, but in the same light these students are going to actual design firms(besides the ones who suck)......
You're "worth" whatever the forces of supply and demand say you're worth. Having a license doesn't make you suddenly smarter, per se, but it does qualify you for job descriptions specifying "architect" rather than "designer" or some other euphemism. The reason to get a license is for your NEXT job, when the prospective employer will use it as a screening device since they don't really know anything about you. Let's face it, the whole employment system is a shot in the dark for both employer and employee. It's not fair. Neither is life.
no one cares. head down, back to work. cheers NS!
http://www.architectmagazine.com/practice/key-takeaways-from-the-2015-aia-compensation-survey_o
I got licensed earlier this spring and have been doing some higher paid interior design work since then. It is also more fun and less work. Something seems off about that but I can't complain.
Thanks Rick. Doing just furniture and finishes is the game and I'm having fun. Might get to do some staging too.
By staging I mean making a house on the market look good for a buyer. But we'll see, hasn't happened yet...
The proper term is fluffing. In a hot market there is demand for house fluffers.
Soon to extend services to the Australian market... or not.
Porn movies use fluffers, too.
Mikes, does it pay well?
Miles*
Dunno, I was the one getting fluffed.
Well I hope you were paid well.
I get fluffed before meeting new clients.
Ah! Hence the new higher billable rate. Makes sense to me!
YEP!!!
A raise? I expect the commissions to start falling like rain. Magazine features, having to pick and choose which clients to turn down, hobnobbing with celebs and red carpet events.
^ All that also, a round of root beers for everyone! even the bitter at heart! :D!
I still find it kind of great that someone has an old school sext as a screen name.
I thought i was the only one who picked up on that...
I would have gone with 5318008 myself.
i wonder how many variants there are
( . v . )
B===D
I expect not to get laid off or fired lol