Not sure if this an appropriate question for this forum but I figured I would try. I'm actually an Engineer and not an architect so I'm looking for some unbiased and modern opinion. Here goes....
So I have been planning a new house to build and I've decided I want to have an indoor basketball court. I figured the options would be, basement level court the included the same are on the first floor for the high ceiling, having a portion of the basement extra deep with stairs from the basement that go down another level, or finally my favorite.... a double deep basement under the garage (quietest scenario). Since I don't deal with these types of things in my profession as an engineer I figured I would join an architecture forum in order to learn as much as I could.
I hope to hear from many of you with opinions on the most cost effective way to achieve my goals. Thanks!!
Derek
SpontaneousCombustion
Nov 29, 17 11:09 pm
Rick check out the load tables in IBC (or any other building code): garages for passenger cars - even commercial parking garages - have prescribed loads that are only about half of what's required for a basketball court/gymnasium.
There are plenty of examples of regulation NCAA venues that have other uses above them - I can think of several universities that have stacked gymnasium spaces, one above another - and that needs beefier structure than parking does.
Yes, there are large spans involved. But they're not so exceptionally large that they're amazing feats of engineering, or that they require ridiculously oversized structure and super-thick walls. This is an ordinary building type, not particularly rare. My kid goes to preschool in a YMCA that has an Olympic-sized pool in the sub-basement, full-size gym above that at ground level, parking at the 2nd-floor level, and residential floors above that. It's an unremarkable building - no 10 foot thick pilasters.
Flatfish
Nov 30, 17 1:53 am
prescriptive loads are based on use, not construction type. Parking for passenger vehicles is 50 lb/sf, regardless of whether it's parking on slab on grade or parking on a roof deck. Live load for a basketball court is 100 lb/sf, regardless of construction type or what level it's on. All you need to do to verify this is look it up. All this nonsense about jumping cars, glu-lams, and pilasters is you once again desperately trying to save face after realizing that you've exposed your lack of real experience again, and making it worse the harder you try.
JLC-1
Nov 30, 17 12:11 pm
real 3 car garage, built and in use, 8" conc. foundation walls - take your meds balkins
Bloopox
Nov 30, 17 10:36 am
"Remember, commercial parking garages for example are not under any form of prescriptive code." Richard open IBC and look for the table that includes live loads for commercial garages. This is beginning to remind me of when you stated in another thread that UL doesn't publish books of rated assemblies! The big orange books could be piled all around you and you'd still deny their existence. This "what are the live loads for a parking garage" scenario is a typical exercise in first-year structures courses, and students often start with the same misunderstandings you're displaying here. As an architect, engineer, and former statics instructor, my advice is that you would benefit from taking a real structures course taught by a practicing architect or engineer. Your auto-didactic approach is a colossal failure here because you don't have the very fundamental understandings to see why you're wrong.
joseffischer
Nov 30, 17 11:11 am
*shrug* I haven't looked this up, but have been told on multiple occasions that in Atlanta we have to design for 100 PSF live loads on our parking decks. I assume two things, that our structural engineer knows what he's talking about, and that when he says "for Atlanta" it's a local requirement.
Of course if I get a project with a parking deck in its scope, I'll do a bit more than assuming, but for now, that's good enough for me.
Wood Guy
Nov 30, 17 2:49 pm
Some of the comments on this thread are hilarious. I've never designed a basketball court, but recently detailed a 2-car garage over living space. We used precast floor panels from these guys: http://www.jpcarrara.com/Produ... It would have been even easier if it wasn't a completely panelized Passivhaus. Floor panels like that wouldn't clear span a ball court, but you could have a competent structural engineer design cast-in-place reinforced T-beams like you see in most parking garages, or design steel beams to clear-span the space, with precast or cast-in-place floor panels spanning from beam to beam. The beams could even be wood: http://nordic.ca/en/projects/s....
Wood Guy
Dec 3, 17 1:30 pm
Why do you think it's hard to design 80' beams? They are just bigger than the beams we normally see in residential construction. For example, a W36x650 (A992 steel) 72' long can support a uniform load of 739 pounds per foot at less than L/180 deflection, so at somewhere between 8' and 16' on center, they could carry a garage load. Then the floor planks just need to span from beam to beam.
It's too bad you deleted the rest of your comment. I don't guess at beam sizes, I use basic engineering principles, and hire a structural engineer the minute I'm outside my comfort zone.
Not sure if this an appropriate question for this forum but I figured I would try. I'm actually an Engineer and not an architect so I'm looking for some unbiased and modern opinion. Here goes....
So I have been planning a new house to build and I've decided I want to have an indoor basketball court. I figured the options would be, basement level court the included the same are on the first floor for the high ceiling, having a portion of the basement extra deep with stairs from the basement that go down another level, or finally my favorite.... a double deep basement under the garage (quietest scenario). Since I don't deal with these types of things in my profession as an engineer I figured I would join an architecture forum in order to learn as much as I could.
I hope to hear from many of you with opinions on the most cost effective way to achieve my goals. Thanks!!
Derek
Rick check out the load tables in IBC (or any other building code): garages for passenger cars - even commercial parking garages - have prescribed loads that are only about half of what's required for a basketball court/gymnasium.
There are plenty of examples of regulation NCAA venues that have other uses above them - I can think of several universities that have stacked gymnasium spaces, one above another - and that needs beefier structure than parking does.
Yes, there are large spans involved. But they're not so exceptionally large that they're amazing feats of engineering, or that they require ridiculously oversized structure and super-thick walls. This is an ordinary building type, not particularly rare. My kid goes to preschool in a YMCA that has an Olympic-sized pool in the sub-basement, full-size gym above that at ground level, parking at the 2nd-floor level, and residential floors above that. It's an unremarkable building - no 10 foot thick pilasters.
prescriptive loads are based on use, not construction type. Parking for passenger vehicles is 50 lb/sf, regardless of whether it's parking on slab on grade or parking on a roof deck. Live load for a basketball court is 100 lb/sf, regardless of construction type or what level it's on. All you need to do to verify this is look it up. All this nonsense about jumping cars, glu-lams, and pilasters is you once again desperately trying to save face after realizing that you've exposed your lack of real experience again, and making it worse the harder you try.
real 3 car garage, built and in use, 8" conc. foundation walls - take your meds balkins
"Remember, commercial parking garages for example are not under any form of prescriptive code." Richard open IBC and look for the table that includes live loads for commercial garages. This is beginning to remind me of when you stated in another thread that UL doesn't publish books of rated assemblies! The big orange books could be piled all around you and you'd still deny their existence.
This "what are the live loads for a parking garage" scenario is a typical exercise in first-year structures courses, and students often start with the same misunderstandings you're displaying here. As an architect, engineer, and former statics instructor, my advice is that you would benefit from taking a real structures course taught by a practicing architect or engineer. Your auto-didactic approach is a colossal failure here because you don't have the very fundamental understandings to see why you're wrong.
*shrug* I haven't looked this up, but have been told on multiple occasions that in Atlanta we have to design for 100 PSF live loads on our parking decks. I assume two things, that our structural engineer knows what he's talking about, and that when he says "for Atlanta" it's a local requirement.
Of course if I get a project with a parking deck in its scope, I'll do a bit more than assuming, but for now, that's good enough for me.
Some of the comments on this thread are hilarious. I've never designed a basketball court, but recently detailed a 2-car garage over living space. We used precast floor panels from these guys: http://www.jpcarrara.com/Produ... It would have been even easier if it wasn't a completely panelized Passivhaus. Floor panels like that wouldn't clear span a ball court, but you could have a competent structural engineer design cast-in-place reinforced T-beams like you see in most parking garages, or design steel beams to clear-span the space, with precast or cast-in-place floor panels spanning from beam to beam. The beams could even be wood: http://nordic.ca/en/projects/s....
Why do you think it's hard to design 80' beams? They are just bigger than the beams we normally see in residential construction. For example, a W36x650 (A992 steel) 72' long can support a uniform load of 739 pounds per foot at less than L/180 deflection, so at somewhere between 8' and 16' on center, they could carry a garage load. Then the floor planks just need to span from beam to beam.
It's too bad you deleted the rest of your comment. I don't guess at beam sizes, I use basic engineering principles, and hire a structural engineer the minute I'm outside my comfort zone.
.