I am currently a fouth year undergraduate architecture student at the University of Waterloo and am applying to UofT for my MArch. I have atleast an A- average in every term I have completed at Waterloo, HOWEVER, last year I did an exchange term in Switzerland and didn't do so well (low B average) due to the language of study not being my first language (and my preoccupation being travel, not school). Unfortunatly, because I have not yet completed my degree, these grades will be used to calculate my final year average, and even though I anticipate an A average this term, I am worried that my marks will not be good enough. My portfolio and letters of reference are both good (I hope), and I have two years internship experience at one of Toronto's top architectural firms. Does anyone know if UofT uses a marks based cut-off before reviewing portfolios, like Waterloo does for its undergrad? What are my chances at advanced placement? Any thoughts from current, or past UofT MArch students are much appreciated!
I wouldnt worry about it. Undergraduate and Graduate admissions are completely different. You're coming from the best undergrad program in Canada; they likely won't care. You can also indicate your rational in your letter of intent should you choose, although I don't think its necessary.
clairemk
Dec 19, 13 6:18 pm
Thanks Ben,
That makes me feel better, and haha, I don't know if i would consider Waterloo the best anymore, I would say these days, Ryerson and McGill are just as good -- but I don't know of anyone from my program who has gone to UofT recently (maybe i'm just misinformed), and I'm sure admissions are competitive.
SpatialSojourner
Dec 19, 13 10:05 pm
Your work is probably the best I've seen posted on this website. You'll be able to get in! I'm in the same position, I had a bad semester that really burnt my GPA, group projects, sigh.
Non Sequitur
Dec 19, 13 10:47 pm
Why U of T?
Claire, with your Loo undergraduate, you could literally cartwheel into any graduate program in Canada. I personally do not hold Ryerson's program to the same level as McGills thou.
Anyways, grades only get you into the first round of cuts... which is usually something like 70%. Portfolio, letters of recommendation and thesis intent (if they require one) carry far more weight.
clairemk
Jan 1, 14 2:11 pm
@non sequitur
for me it's an issue to being in a big city. I'm sick of wasting away in Cambridge, Ontario, and mcgill and ryerson's programs don't appeal to me (needless to say, other schools arent really worth considering). an american school is completly financially unatainable, and i know there are scholarships and bursaries, but i would never meet the criteria for either, and without MAJOR help, it's just never going to happen. also: when you say 70%, do you mean that that is the grades cut off? what? that seems really low... or do you mean that 70% of people get eliminated on grades alone?
@spatialsojourner
thanks!
aws123
Apr 23, 15 3:16 pm
@clairemk how good is waterloo undergrad? As I am torn between UofT and Waterloo undergrad arch. What would you advice?
Bench
Apr 23, 15 3:21 pm
What?
They arent the same thing at the undergraduate level - completely different degrees. Aws123, were you accepted to both? If so, it is critical that you understand the difference between the Bachelor of Arts at Toronto vs. the Bachelor of Architectural Studies at Waterloo.
Non Sequitur
Apr 23, 15 3:24 pm
AWS123
U of T does NOT have an architecture undergraduate degree. It's a general arts with a "focus" on architecture and a waste of time, especially if you've already been admitted into a real programme.
aws123
Apr 24, 15 12:27 am
"The Architectural Studies Major programs were transferred from the Faculty of Arts & Science to the John H. Daniels Faculty of Architecture, Landscape, and Design effective September 1, 2012."
Doesn't that mean that the degree is no longer an arts degree? And isn't it better to learn the design part of architecture than the technical part? @BenC , Non Sequitur
clairemk
Apr 24, 15 1:30 am
@aws123 oh wow. You really should go to UofT. Someone who can't be bothered to do basic research on the university programs they're applying to clearly isn't ready for a real architecture undergraduate. I'm at UofT now, and their undergraduatw program may now be part of Daniels, but it's still a plain old Bachelor of Arts. You take a few design studios at UofT, but having seen some of the work that comes out of them, they are nowhere near as complex or involved as what you learn at Waterloo. You won't learn any of the computer programs you need at UofT, nor will you learn anything technical (but that's okay, you seem to frown on it anyway), nor will you really learn how to design either. UofT's program is a double major, so you'll have to pick something else to study as well (which isn't a bad thing), the program is designed to let you test out what architecture school might be like for your masters without having to commit to a full degree. To put it in perspective, as a Waterloo grad coming in for my masters, I got advanced placement at UofT, they don't give that to their own students. UofT grads have to start at year one with all the other students who didn't study architecture in their undergrads. You should really go visit the schools. I'm always seeing confused high school students wandering through our building with their parents, and it sucks having to break it to them that no, they don't take classes here, nor do they have studio space here or have access to any of our resources. Do your research.
aws123
Apr 24, 15 3:51 am
Thank you for clarifying that clairemk. I did research about it but I guess I just misunderstood what the degree meant as the degrees in where I live is different and I was really interested as I thought they are making a new building just for the school for architecture but apparently they only teach the art and architectural studies, right?
And I am an international student who isn't fortunate enough to go aboard just to visit the university itself. But since you're a graduate from uni of waterloo, can you tell me the advantages and disdain of studying architecture there? and How high was your GDa?
Non Sequitur
Apr 24, 15 6:54 am
What's a GDA?
aws123
Apr 24, 15 7:12 am
GPA**
Non Sequitur
Apr 24, 15 8:07 am
Why would GPA matter? From what I remember, Loo's grades were percentile based but what really matters is the design portfolio and construction detailing skill set you build while at school.
clairemk
Apr 24, 15 9:06 am
@aws123 oh,UofT is building a new building alright, but it isn't for undergrads. Are you asking about my high school grades or my undergraduate marks?
clairemk
Apr 24, 15 9:09 am
Also: don't waste your money on international tuition for an undergrad! Spend it on your masters and go somewhere great!
aws123
Apr 24, 15 9:35 am
so uoft arch undergrad wouldn't get me nowhere far as waterloo? And I have to pay the same amount of tuition where I live as I would if I were to go to study in Canada. I meant undergrad marks but NS has a point too.
Anyway thank you both
clairemk
Apr 24, 15 9:49 am
If you're seriously considering becoming an architect and are willing to put in the work (waterloo's undergrad is really quite a bit more work than UofT's), then Waterloo is definitely the right place to go. The program is great, and co-op is totally worth while, even though it adds another year to your degree, but it is a very intense 5 years.
aws123
Apr 24, 15 11:28 am
but you skip one year of master's right?
clairemk
Apr 24, 15 11:56 am
It depends on where you go for your masters.
Bench
Apr 24, 15 1:29 pm
There is no comparison. Waterloo has a 'true' undergraduate architecture program ('pre-professional') that will allow you to apply anywhere for a 2-year M.Arch, whether in Canada, the US, Europe, or elsewhere. UT's program is not a 'true' architecture program, it is a Bachelor of Arts program. You will not be able to apply to the majority of M.Arch programs in Canada and Europe, and can only apply to 3.5-year programs in the US.
For clarification: If you apply to UW's M.Arch with a UT undergrad, your application will be refused/not considered. That is a fact; the administrators there will confirm this. If you apply to UT's M.Arch with a UW undergrad, you will be given an advanced standing of 1 year upon acceptance.
sanip
Apr 24, 15 5:47 pm
@aws123
I went to UofT for my undergrad (Bachelor of Arts with a major in Architecture+another major) and I wanted to note some things that may help you out.
When I was in my last year of high school I decided against applying to Waterloo because of three main reasons: A) When I was applying, I was not 100% sure I wanted to go into architecture. UofT gave me the flexibility of pursuing a second major and taking several courses in fields that also interested me in a university where all programs had very good classes/instructors; B) I wanted to live in a city (Toronto is incredible), I was tired of living in the suburbs and wanted a more 'urban' lifestyle; and C) I wanted to be in a global university where my peers would come from a diverse set of backgrounds. These were things that I got from UofT that I probably would not have gotten out of any other university in Canada, and looking back--despite what I am going to say next--I have no regrets and had an overall really great experience throughout my undergrad.
However, if you are sure that architecture is what you want to do and like the general lifestyle of somewhere like Waterloo/Cambridge ON, it is true that in terms of technical skills and professional experience (because of the coop program) Waterloo is certainly a more rigorous and better designed program to get you there. I was able to find architecture jobs during my long, 4-month summers in university, but it was not easy and currently the career services at UofT are rather unhelpful. Also note that Daniels is currently going through big changes and that translates itself into some inefficiencies for the students, but they are doing good things to improve the program. For example I think now they offer two extra undergrad studios than what they used to. You would have to inquire about whether the new building will include spaces for undergrads--I would assume yes but after seeing someone's post above I am not sure.
The UofT program is heavy with history and theory courses, some of them are a little repetitive but some of them are really great. Take a look at the courses they offer and the program demands and decide whether they are things that would interest you. In terms of studios, I was lucky to be in a class where we were very close to each other and pushed each other to learn and improve. The work that we produced went through huge improvements because my peers were willing to set the bar high for each other. No, you will not learn how to draw building details, but you WILL learn how to design and use different programs, and you can even incorporate some of your own interest from your other major/minors into your design. Having worked in the field for just a couple of years you will see that technical drawings and details are the kinds of things that you will much better understand - and easily remember - while on the job. I worked with many wonderful people who graduated from Waterloo and they told me that even though they may have had a few classes on structures and detailing, you will still mostly learn the real technicalities of it while working.
Your master WILL take longer if you go to UofT because you will not likely get advanced placement anywhere (with some exceptions in the US). However, there are several programs in Canada where you can apply--UofT, UBC--while others where you cannot, like McGill and apparently Waterloo (I wasn't aware of that!).
Final thought: UofT will teach you to think critically. Architecture is a competitive program and you will have classes with some very motivated and talented people who will push you and teach you invaluable lessons. You have to seek your opportunities and find you niche there--but UofT has it all, if you look for it. Congratulations on getting into your programs, make the choice that best suits you and embrace the next amazing four years!
aws123
Apr 24, 15 11:51 pm
Thank you sanip. That was helpful as all I am hearing on this forum is that UofT sucks and its coming from people who didn't study in that uni, so I wanted to hear the opinion of a graduate from the uni itself. I understand that there is more into arch than just technical drawing and UofT provide courses that cover the art part of architecture and can then learn the technical in the masters program which is great. And the only thing I hate about waterloo is that the school of arch is isolated from the uni in Cambridge while UofT is in the main city in Toronto.
But as you said, I am very assure of what I want to study(which is architecture) so ill enrol into the uni of waterloo since it will provide me with a better education regarding the program and then i might go to pursue a masters in UofT. But I just want to ask you a few questions....
How hard was it finding a job and what did you work as?
Did you complete masters, are you doing it, or didn't do it yet?
What kind of programs did you learn to work with in the uni?
And if you were in my place which uni would choose?
Non Sequitur
Apr 25, 15 7:52 am
This is funny.
All universities teach you to think critically. U of T is no different than any other in that respect. It's just that it sucks for undergrad architecture.
aws123
Apr 27, 15 1:50 pm
Just a remark, I asked the uni if the new one spadina building at UofT is for undergrads too and they said yes they'll move there but that doesnt mean all the classes will be held there.
Non Sequitur
Apr 27, 15 2:08 pm
aws123, looks like you're more interested in going to Toronto than studying architecture. Might as well leave that spot at Waterloo for someone with higher ambitions... not to mention better reading comprehension skills.
clairemk
Apr 27, 15 2:26 pm
A note about the 1 spadina building: it currently is barely under construction, and having some experience with the construction industry and university beaurocracy, it is highly unlikely that you will be in it before your last year of school, if even by then. Also: new space doesn't mean that the program is changing.
aws123
Apr 27, 15 2:31 pm
Shouldn't you be helping people instead of criticising and pointing out their low ambitions and reading skills. As far as I can tell, I just corrected someone who stated a wrong fact, and this doesn't mean I'm more lenient to join UofT. I was excited to get my acceptance from UofT at first, but then I just wanted to know better about the programs in each of the uni in canada so I started asking questions to know the best uni for me. And now that I know UofT isn't as prestigious in architecture, Ill think ill join Waterloo. However, it's never wrong to listen the other point of view.... unless you disagree.
Non Sequitur
Apr 27, 15 2:38 pm
I do not disagree, it is just that both undergrad schools are so different from each other. You have the opportunity of a top-notch architecture education on one hand and only the attractiveness of a big Canadian city in the other. Best of luck.
aws123
Apr 27, 15 2:41 pm
Thank you, and I won't miss it now that I know about it
Hi All,
I am currently a fouth year undergraduate architecture student at the University of Waterloo and am applying to UofT for my MArch. I have atleast an A- average in every term I have completed at Waterloo, HOWEVER, last year I did an exchange term in Switzerland and didn't do so well (low B average) due to the language of study not being my first language (and my preoccupation being travel, not school). Unfortunatly, because I have not yet completed my degree, these grades will be used to calculate my final year average, and even though I anticipate an A average this term, I am worried that my marks will not be good enough. My portfolio and letters of reference are both good (I hope), and I have two years internship experience at one of Toronto's top architectural firms. Does anyone know if UofT uses a marks based cut-off before reviewing portfolios, like Waterloo does for its undergrad? What are my chances at advanced placement? Any thoughts from current, or past UofT MArch students are much appreciated!
Thanks!
Website (in progress): http://cargocollective.com/clairekurtin
Honestly?
I wouldnt worry about it. Undergraduate and Graduate admissions are completely different. You're coming from the best undergrad program in Canada; they likely won't care. You can also indicate your rational in your letter of intent should you choose, although I don't think its necessary.
Thanks Ben,
That makes me feel better, and haha, I don't know if i would consider Waterloo the best anymore, I would say these days, Ryerson and McGill are just as good -- but I don't know of anyone from my program who has gone to UofT recently (maybe i'm just misinformed), and I'm sure admissions are competitive.
Your work is probably the best I've seen posted on this website. You'll be able to get in! I'm in the same position, I had a bad semester that really burnt my GPA, group projects, sigh.
Why U of T?
Claire, with your Loo undergraduate, you could literally cartwheel into any graduate program in Canada. I personally do not hold Ryerson's program to the same level as McGills thou.
Anyways, grades only get you into the first round of cuts... which is usually something like 70%. Portfolio, letters of recommendation and thesis intent (if they require one) carry far more weight.
@non sequitur
for me it's an issue to being in a big city. I'm sick of wasting away in Cambridge, Ontario, and mcgill and ryerson's programs don't appeal to me (needless to say, other schools arent really worth considering). an american school is completly financially unatainable, and i know there are scholarships and bursaries, but i would never meet the criteria for either, and without MAJOR help, it's just never going to happen. also: when you say 70%, do you mean that that is the grades cut off? what? that seems really low... or do you mean that 70% of people get eliminated on grades alone?
@spatialsojourner
thanks!
@clairemk how good is waterloo undergrad? As I am torn between UofT and Waterloo undergrad arch. What would you advice?
What?
They arent the same thing at the undergraduate level - completely different degrees. Aws123, were you accepted to both? If so, it is critical that you understand the difference between the Bachelor of Arts at Toronto vs. the Bachelor of Architectural Studies at Waterloo.
AWS123
U of T does NOT have an architecture undergraduate degree. It's a general arts with a "focus" on architecture and a waste of time, especially if you've already been admitted into a real programme.
"The Architectural Studies Major programs were transferred from the Faculty of Arts & Science to the John H. Daniels Faculty of Architecture, Landscape, and Design effective September 1, 2012."
Doesn't that mean that the degree is no longer an arts degree? And isn't it better to learn the design part of architecture than the technical part? @BenC , Non Sequitur
@aws123 oh wow. You really should go to UofT. Someone who can't be bothered to do basic research on the university programs they're applying to clearly isn't ready for a real architecture undergraduate. I'm at UofT now, and their undergraduatw program may now be part of Daniels, but it's still a plain old Bachelor of Arts. You take a few design studios at UofT, but having seen some of the work that comes out of them, they are nowhere near as complex or involved as what you learn at Waterloo. You won't learn any of the computer programs you need at UofT, nor will you learn anything technical (but that's okay, you seem to frown on it anyway), nor will you really learn how to design either. UofT's program is a double major, so you'll have to pick something else to study as well (which isn't a bad thing), the program is designed to let you test out what architecture school might be like for your masters without having to commit to a full degree. To put it in perspective, as a Waterloo grad coming in for my masters, I got advanced placement at UofT, they don't give that to their own students. UofT grads have to start at year one with all the other students who didn't study architecture in their undergrads. You should really go visit the schools. I'm always seeing confused high school students wandering through our building with their parents, and it sucks having to break it to them that no, they don't take classes here, nor do they have studio space here or have access to any of our resources. Do your research.
Thank you for clarifying that clairemk. I did research about it but I guess I just misunderstood what the degree meant as the degrees in where I live is different and I was really interested as I thought they are making a new building just for the school for architecture but apparently they only teach the art and architectural studies, right?
And I am an international student who isn't fortunate enough to go aboard just to visit the university itself. But since you're a graduate from uni of waterloo, can you tell me the advantages and disdain of studying architecture there? and How high was your GDa?
What's a GDA?
GPA**
Why would GPA matter? From what I remember, Loo's grades were percentile based but what really matters is the design portfolio and construction detailing skill set you build while at school.
@aws123 oh,UofT is building a new building alright, but it isn't for undergrads. Are you asking about my high school grades or my undergraduate marks?
Also: don't waste your money on international tuition for an undergrad! Spend it on your masters and go somewhere great!
so uoft arch undergrad wouldn't get me nowhere far as waterloo? And I have to pay the same amount of tuition where I live as I would if I were to go to study in Canada. I meant undergrad marks but NS has a point too.
Anyway thank you both
If you're seriously considering becoming an architect and are willing to put in the work (waterloo's undergrad is really quite a bit more work than UofT's), then Waterloo is definitely the right place to go. The program is great, and co-op is totally worth while, even though it adds another year to your degree, but it is a very intense 5 years.
but you skip one year of master's right?
It depends on where you go for your masters.
There is no comparison. Waterloo has a 'true' undergraduate architecture program ('pre-professional') that will allow you to apply anywhere for a 2-year M.Arch, whether in Canada, the US, Europe, or elsewhere. UT's program is not a 'true' architecture program, it is a Bachelor of Arts program. You will not be able to apply to the majority of M.Arch programs in Canada and Europe, and can only apply to 3.5-year programs in the US.
For clarification: If you apply to UW's M.Arch with a UT undergrad, your application will be refused/not considered. That is a fact; the administrators there will confirm this. If you apply to UT's M.Arch with a UW undergrad, you will be given an advanced standing of 1 year upon acceptance.
@aws123
I went to UofT for my undergrad (Bachelor of Arts with a major in Architecture+another major) and I wanted to note some things that may help you out.
When I was in my last year of high school I decided against applying to Waterloo because of three main reasons: A) When I was applying, I was not 100% sure I wanted to go into architecture. UofT gave me the flexibility of pursuing a second major and taking several courses in fields that also interested me in a university where all programs had very good classes/instructors; B) I wanted to live in a city (Toronto is incredible), I was tired of living in the suburbs and wanted a more 'urban' lifestyle; and C) I wanted to be in a global university where my peers would come from a diverse set of backgrounds. These were things that I got from UofT that I probably would not have gotten out of any other university in Canada, and looking back--despite what I am going to say next--I have no regrets and had an overall really great experience throughout my undergrad.
However, if you are sure that architecture is what you want to do and like the general lifestyle of somewhere like Waterloo/Cambridge ON, it is true that in terms of technical skills and professional experience (because of the coop program) Waterloo is certainly a more rigorous and better designed program to get you there. I was able to find architecture jobs during my long, 4-month summers in university, but it was not easy and currently the career services at UofT are rather unhelpful. Also note that Daniels is currently going through big changes and that translates itself into some inefficiencies for the students, but they are doing good things to improve the program. For example I think now they offer two extra undergrad studios than what they used to. You would have to inquire about whether the new building will include spaces for undergrads--I would assume yes but after seeing someone's post above I am not sure.
The UofT program is heavy with history and theory courses, some of them are a little repetitive but some of them are really great. Take a look at the courses they offer and the program demands and decide whether they are things that would interest you. In terms of studios, I was lucky to be in a class where we were very close to each other and pushed each other to learn and improve. The work that we produced went through huge improvements because my peers were willing to set the bar high for each other. No, you will not learn how to draw building details, but you WILL learn how to design and use different programs, and you can even incorporate some of your own interest from your other major/minors into your design. Having worked in the field for just a couple of years you will see that technical drawings and details are the kinds of things that you will much better understand - and easily remember - while on the job. I worked with many wonderful people who graduated from Waterloo and they told me that even though they may have had a few classes on structures and detailing, you will still mostly learn the real technicalities of it while working.
Your master WILL take longer if you go to UofT because you will not likely get advanced placement anywhere (with some exceptions in the US). However, there are several programs in Canada where you can apply--UofT, UBC--while others where you cannot, like McGill and apparently Waterloo (I wasn't aware of that!).
Final thought: UofT will teach you to think critically. Architecture is a competitive program and you will have classes with some very motivated and talented people who will push you and teach you invaluable lessons. You have to seek your opportunities and find you niche there--but UofT has it all, if you look for it. Congratulations on getting into your programs, make the choice that best suits you and embrace the next amazing four years!
Thank you sanip. That was helpful as all I am hearing on this forum is that UofT sucks and its coming from people who didn't study in that uni, so I wanted to hear the opinion of a graduate from the uni itself. I understand that there is more into arch than just technical drawing and UofT provide courses that cover the art part of architecture and can then learn the technical in the masters program which is great. And the only thing I hate about waterloo is that the school of arch is isolated from the uni in Cambridge while UofT is in the main city in Toronto.
But as you said, I am very assure of what I want to study(which is architecture) so ill enrol into the uni of waterloo since it will provide me with a better education regarding the program and then i might go to pursue a masters in UofT. But I just want to ask you a few questions....
How hard was it finding a job and what did you work as?
Did you complete masters, are you doing it, or didn't do it yet?
What kind of programs did you learn to work with in the uni?
And if you were in my place which uni would choose?
This is funny.
All universities teach you to think critically. U of T is no different than any other in that respect. It's just that it sucks for undergrad architecture.
Just a remark, I asked the uni if the new one spadina building at UofT is for undergrads too and they said yes they'll move there but that doesnt mean all the classes will be held there.
aws123, looks like you're more interested in going to Toronto than studying architecture. Might as well leave that spot at Waterloo for someone with higher ambitions... not to mention better reading comprehension skills.
A note about the 1 spadina building: it currently is barely under construction, and having some experience with the construction industry and university beaurocracy, it is highly unlikely that you will be in it before your last year of school, if even by then. Also: new space doesn't mean that the program is changing.
Shouldn't you be helping people instead of criticising and pointing out their low ambitions and reading skills. As far as I can tell, I just corrected someone who stated a wrong fact, and this doesn't mean I'm more lenient to join UofT. I was excited to get my acceptance from UofT at first, but then I just wanted to know better about the programs in each of the uni in canada so I started asking questions to know the best uni for me. And now that I know UofT isn't as prestigious in architecture, Ill think ill join Waterloo. However, it's never wrong to listen the other point of view.... unless you disagree.
I do not disagree, it is just that both undergrad schools are so different from each other. You have the opportunity of a top-notch architecture education on one hand and only the attractiveness of a big Canadian city in the other. Best of luck.
Thank you, and I won't miss it now that I know about it