Hey, I am sure you have read or seen: 101 Things I learned in Architecture School by Matthew Frederick. http://www.bangbam.org/2008/12/101-things-i-learned-in-architecture.html
Well, although it is a great book we must all have, I would prefer one with tips we have to learn the hard way when we are out of school. i.e. How do we get clients when none of our realatives, or friends need architectural services?
Sometimes architecture is more about going to NON architects parties to get clients. Mingle with lawyers, MD etc. Forget planet architetcure and friends for a while!
Lets start our 101 things we didn't learn in architecture school!!
Apurimac
Dec 9, 08 10:23 am
How to properly light a space.
Antisthenes
Dec 9, 08 10:44 am
and what about architects who didn't go to school? 101 things we learned from ARE study guides or on the job/site?
starrchitect
Dec 9, 08 10:51 am
Im posting my two cents along with the firm where I had this experience (in parenthesis).
How to dimension drawings properly (All previous firms).
How to "double-speak" when answering questions you dont know the answer to (All).
How to avoid the bullshit title "consultant" when working at a firm in NYC, because the employer doesn't wanna add you to payroll, as well as other nefarious reasons that may affect his pocketbook (TSIG).
How to flirt with cute female reps for products you know the office will never use (All).
How to rat out past employees who use illegal & pirated software after you've been canned for someone willing to work for much less pay.
How not to splurge on expensive ass architecture books that have no pragmatic purpose (All).
How to tell a potential employer to go to hell when he asks you to input ideas by making you come up with drawing schemes for their current project as part of the "job interview" (Shamir Shah Design).
peridotbritches
Dec 9, 08 11:06 am
How to be a doctor? I jakes.
Ferreals - to create drawings which other people can build from.
anvi
Dec 9, 08 12:26 pm
How to marry rich.
mantaray
Dec 9, 08 1:30 pm
How to have difficult conversations. Literally.. One of my bosses swore by this and he was a genius.
Why client psychology -- and basic human psychology -- matters, and how to make it work your way. (See above. Same genius boss; many extraordinary lessons.)
How to get a problem solved without assigning blame. See also: How to be constantly, relentlessly positive, and why that's important.
The best way to flash and weatherstrip windows. The best way to get custom modern wood trim done so that it doesn't a) make your contractor think you're a fool and hate you forever or b) crack the paint just after the client moves in or c) constantly get nicked and beat up.
The importance of always, always, always ordering a sample of any hardware you are going to use and testing it out. See corollary: how to design new details and connections based on field-tested understanding of how things go together and work.
Which drawings actually help a client understand something v. which are pure architectural masturbation and a waste of time.
How to measure an existing building.
How to dimension a building.
How to annotate drawings. (Hint -- don't duplicate notes. Say it only once and refer to that wherever necessary.)
How to get paid AND how to not get paid.
oh man... it goes on. This is 99% from one employer.
mantaray
Dec 9, 08 1:31 pm
The importance of being on time for client meetings.
The importance of being humble at contractor site meetings. Also: the importance of being firm at contractor site meetings. Also: When To Yell.
How to organize architectural project management.
peridotbritches
Dec 9, 08 1:39 pm
I'll 'woo WOO' on Manta's how to measure and then how to dimension. I still can't beleive we never used a tape or laser at least ONCE during undergrad.
mantaray
Dec 9, 08 1:48 pm
It's definitely an art form, peridotbritches!
I am SO thankful that at my first post-grad job, my boss took the time (hours) to go with me to measure one of our intricate renovations and slowly and patiently told me why and how everything should be measured the way it was. Then he walked me through the documentation portion on the computer and it clicked why we had done the measuring the way we did.
My current office sends student interns out willy nilly with no training to measure and us PMs are left trying to make sense of everything without having been there during measurement ourselves. It's great.
Orhan Ayyüce
Dec 9, 08 1:50 pm
nobody knows who your 'interesting' instructor in school is.
real buildings are not designed sitting all night up and orbiting your drawing on the computer screen.
if you say 'aparture' instead of 'window' to the contractor, he'll call your boss and ask him not to send you to job site anymore because it is waste of his time to talk to you.
general notes are not all same and they are not for making the drawings look official.
you could avoid 100k dept if you went to cheaper state school and get the diploma nobody will ever look.
no matter which school you graduated, if you don't continue your idealism next two years after graduation, you might as well be a granpa...! (this one is really important)
more later.
trace™
Dec 9, 08 2:14 pm
excel. everyone should know excel.
Dapper Napper
Dec 9, 08 2:22 pm
That drafting is not just a mindless excercise in copying what's on the paper.
Dapper Napper
Dec 9, 08 2:22 pm
And ditto on the excel.
lesro
Dec 9, 08 2:43 pm
how to communicate:
with those you agree with and don't agree with without damaging a job or firm reputation
with contractors, consultants, colleagues, and reps
by phone instead of relying on email to get your message across, and if that doesn't work schedule a freakin' meeting
how to take a shower and make yourself presentable at all times even if you had to pull an all nighter
how to sketch an idea out when you don't have time to make a model or render a view
liberty bell
Dec 9, 08 2:50 pm
To remember the names and interests of every single person I meet - they are all potential clients. I suck at this.
a a i b
Dec 9, 08 3:12 pm
profile lines
aquapura
Dec 9, 08 4:07 pm
How to flirt with cute female reps for products you know the office will never use
Ha ha, I love that one.
I would like to add:
How to read specifications
How to write a specification
and
Generic terms for building materials, i.e. Tapcon, Corian, Tyvek, etc.
will galloway
Dec 9, 08 7:01 pm
only two years of optimism orhan?
i wonder how much of above COULD be in school setting.
by the time you get around to understanding that client relations - and ways of organising staff so they are learning/working effectively - is as impt as designing nice spaces, i imagine you will be out of school for several years...
and in school could you even use that knowledge anyway?
David Cuthbert
Dec 9, 08 7:38 pm
how to not judge your success on others apparent success
how to escape debt and poverty
how to conceptualise your own reality
Jessica Coleman
Dec 9, 08 7:43 pm
I love the book by Frederick...I always have it in my bag when I am on the train...
One thing that I did not learn in school is building code-specifically NYC building code and zoning resolution, landmarks...I had a crash course in it but I am glad that I understand it now...
I also realized that it would not be a bad idea to have a lawyer on speed dial...it seems that architects get sued all the time!
Orhan Ayyüce
Dec 9, 08 8:56 pm
jump, you are right. it should be at least another 10 years, but ideally and necessarily, lifetime if you want to stay in.
A W
Dec 10, 08 3:07 am
How to detail a wall section!
toasteroven
Jan 30, 09 7:09 pm
resurrecting this thread...
that who you work with is more important than the type of work you are doing.
a firm is only as good as its leadership
leadership isn't the same as being an asshole
how to get clients, keep them, and get them to pay.
that the stuff you learn in building systems and professional practice courses is most of what you'll be doing on a day-to-day basis.
how to be super-meticulous about everything while still meeting deadlines.
developing schmoozing and good communication skills is more important to landing and keeping work than actual design talent. this is why crap gets built.
if you want to do interesting projects, you have to actually go out there and invent them. you'll have to work very hard, spend your own time and money, and it may take many years until someone even considers paying you for your wacky ideas (if at all).
how and when to say no to something.
Which skills you should develop and which skills you should hire.
farwest1
Jan 30, 09 9:27 pm
Mantaray,
You have some GREAT advice in your comments. I'm hoping you can elaborate on a few items (or write a book) such as 1, 2, and 3 from your first post.
Communication seems to be key to a successful practice, but it's damn hard, and particularly when your clients have different and often very misguided impressions of what the architect's role is, and what their role is.
toasteroven
Jan 31, 09 4:54 pm
farwest - I think it comes down to just listening to clients and colleagues, being honest about what you are doing, and being clear and direct about your expectations. Also - it's ok to admit you do not know something but it's important that you take the initiative in finding the answer.
people (both clients and staff) need to know that they are being heard, that you are being honest with them, and they need to see that you will work hard to find solutions.
It just takes time to gain the client's trust. It's like any relationship - it won't work unless both sides understand each other's expectations at the beginning. And no matter what you do, some clients are always going to be crappy clients - after a while you'll learn how to identify who these people are and stay away from them.
mantaray
Feb 3, 09 12:15 am
Ah, thank you farwest, I'm glad my comments helped! BUT I can't take the credit. I worked for a pair of excellent architects and excellent communicators for a few years who taught me a lot about human psychology and why it matters so much in life -- not just in the specific client relationship. It is a fascinating subject. Once you understand why your client is flipping out over Insignificant Thing X, you can address the real (underlying) reason and guide the relationship back to productivity. (Hint : a lot of it has to do with client needing to feel in control -- not just in "power" but in control as in "having all the information, not being in the dark, and being able to see what's going to happen in the near and far future on the project.") The teacher-student relationship is an interesting one, too.
It's amazing how much of human interaction follows very prescriptive and identifiable patterns, and it's amazing how much of life depends on human interaction.
Anyway I'll have to ask my former bosses to write the book! Actually, that WOULD be interesting...
peridotbritches
Feb 3, 09 9:34 am
Go secure the rights, manta!
On the fence
Feb 3, 09 11:07 am
How to design a building that has at least a 50% chance of ever being given a permit in any city in America.
If we could get here, architecture school will have advanced decades.
farwest1
Feb 3, 09 11:47 am
mantaray,
i understand if you're reluctant to say, but can I ask who your former bosses are? You can email me if you want. Our profession is filled with lots of people who unfortunately aren't that great at communication—or rather, who can talk architecture at people, but can't necessarily talk with people.
I like the concept of better communication—I'm always trying to improve mine, with clients, with my friends, with my wife, with contractors.
holz.box
Feb 3, 09 12:16 pm
on the fence, maybe i'm not working on anything interesting or pushing any boundaries, but i've never been denied a permit.
On the fence
Feb 3, 09 12:30 pm
I am talking about while in school. The designs seem to ignore any thought as to real life/code compliance/life safety/health and wellfare of the people applications.
Instead I was once told that a space of about 2 feet wide by about 6 feet deep was sufficient to place my staircase to the 2nd floor. The intent was enough for my professors. The fact that I had "thought" to put the staircase in was as good as actually putting one in that would work.
Of course in a working invironement, we would expect the design to get a permit. If it didn't you would be out of a job quickly. I don't understand employers and clients thinking versus professors sometimes. ;)
peridotbritches
Feb 3, 09 1:39 pm
Should all schools of architecture put you massive debt to make sure that your scrappy 23 year old self can get a permit for any little project your heart desires?
Design education as a finish school for industry production is my idea of training people to be anti-christs.
On the fence
Feb 3, 09 2:37 pm
I hope that isn't a response you feel I should reflect upon.
mantaray
Feb 3, 09 10:42 pm
On the fence, when you can design an entire building and get it through permitting it in under 10 weeks, while taking 3 college classes, then feel free to hold architecture schools to that standard. Until then, I'm happy to let schools teach how to design and let practice teach how to negotiate bureaucracy.
On the fence
Feb 4, 09 10:24 am
Manataray,
That is why, when you get out of school, you are paid as if you were the senior barrista at starbucks. Of course the senior barrista doesn't have 50,000 - 100,000 in loans to pay off. All that design "knowledge" you picked up from school is worth about zip to nada once you get hired. The majority of firms are hiring new graduates not to design but to do the more routine functions such as wall sections, details, specifications, so on and so forth. The attitude has always been, "they will teach you how a building works at the firm that hires you" is what keeps us either unemployable upon graduation or at a substandard rate for the degree's we may have obtained.
Wouldn't it be nice to stop the constant complaining about our salaries? Maybe the schools should start teaching us something outside of how to look at a flower vase and create a livable space from it.
peridotbritches
Feb 4, 09 12:59 pm
Of course not OTF - I wouldn't dare ask you to stoop so low as to reflect on anything. But if you did decide to do as such, and create your perfect curriculum, and found and fund your perfect school, I would certainly apply.
On the fence
Feb 4, 09 2:03 pm
Well, I certainly am not looking for perfect. Oh wait we already have that. But more balanced between what architecture school and professors want and what the industry needs certainly would be benificial to not only them but the graduates as well.
sarahlebner
Jan 20, 20 12:57 am
I'm aware this thread is pretty old, but I wanted you all to know that I WROTE THE BOOK and it's available for pre-order and on sale in a few days!
Hey, I am sure you have read or seen: 101 Things I learned in Architecture School by Matthew Frederick. http://www.bangbam.org/2008/12/101-things-i-learned-in-architecture.html
Well, although it is a great book we must all have, I would prefer one with tips we have to learn the hard way when we are out of school. i.e. How do we get clients when none of our realatives, or friends need architectural services?
Sometimes architecture is more about going to NON architects parties to get clients. Mingle with lawyers, MD etc. Forget planet architetcure and friends for a while!
Lets start our 101 things we didn't learn in architecture school!!
How to properly light a space.
and what about architects who didn't go to school? 101 things we learned from ARE study guides or on the job/site?
Im posting my two cents along with the firm where I had this experience (in parenthesis).
How to dimension drawings properly (All previous firms).
How to "double-speak" when answering questions you dont know the answer to (All).
How to avoid the bullshit title "consultant" when working at a firm in NYC, because the employer doesn't wanna add you to payroll, as well as other nefarious reasons that may affect his pocketbook (TSIG).
How to flirt with cute female reps for products you know the office will never use (All).
How to rat out past employees who use illegal & pirated software after you've been canned for someone willing to work for much less pay.
How not to splurge on expensive ass architecture books that have no pragmatic purpose (All).
How to tell a potential employer to go to hell when he asks you to input ideas by making you come up with drawing schemes for their current project as part of the "job interview" (Shamir Shah Design).
How to be a doctor? I jakes.
Ferreals - to create drawings which other people can build from.
How to marry rich.
How to have difficult conversations. Literally.. One of my bosses swore by this and he was a genius.
Why client psychology -- and basic human psychology -- matters, and how to make it work your way. (See above. Same genius boss; many extraordinary lessons.)
How to get a problem solved without assigning blame. See also: How to be constantly, relentlessly positive, and why that's important.
The best way to flash and weatherstrip windows. The best way to get custom modern wood trim done so that it doesn't a) make your contractor think you're a fool and hate you forever or b) crack the paint just after the client moves in or c) constantly get nicked and beat up.
The importance of always, always, always ordering a sample of any hardware you are going to use and testing it out. See corollary: how to design new details and connections based on field-tested understanding of how things go together and work.
Which drawings actually help a client understand something v. which are pure architectural masturbation and a waste of time.
How to measure an existing building.
How to dimension a building.
How to annotate drawings. (Hint -- don't duplicate notes. Say it only once and refer to that wherever necessary.)
How to get paid AND how to not get paid.
oh man... it goes on. This is 99% from one employer.
The importance of being on time for client meetings.
The importance of being humble at contractor site meetings. Also: the importance of being firm at contractor site meetings. Also: When To Yell.
How to organize architectural project management.
I'll 'woo WOO' on Manta's how to measure and then how to dimension. I still can't beleive we never used a tape or laser at least ONCE during undergrad.
It's definitely an art form, peridotbritches!
I am SO thankful that at my first post-grad job, my boss took the time (hours) to go with me to measure one of our intricate renovations and slowly and patiently told me why and how everything should be measured the way it was. Then he walked me through the documentation portion on the computer and it clicked why we had done the measuring the way we did.
My current office sends student interns out willy nilly with no training to measure and us PMs are left trying to make sense of everything without having been there during measurement ourselves. It's great.
nobody knows who your 'interesting' instructor in school is.
real buildings are not designed sitting all night up and orbiting your drawing on the computer screen.
if you say 'aparture' instead of 'window' to the contractor, he'll call your boss and ask him not to send you to job site anymore because it is waste of his time to talk to you.
general notes are not all same and they are not for making the drawings look official.
you could avoid 100k dept if you went to cheaper state school and get the diploma nobody will ever look.
no matter which school you graduated, if you don't continue your idealism next two years after graduation, you might as well be a granpa...! (this one is really important)
more later.
excel. everyone should know excel.
That drafting is not just a mindless excercise in copying what's on the paper.
And ditto on the excel.
how to communicate:
with those you agree with and don't agree with without damaging a job or firm reputation
with contractors, consultants, colleagues, and reps
by phone instead of relying on email to get your message across, and if that doesn't work schedule a freakin' meeting
how to take a shower and make yourself presentable at all times even if you had to pull an all nighter
how to sketch an idea out when you don't have time to make a model or render a view
To remember the names and interests of every single person I meet - they are all potential clients. I suck at this.
profile lines
Ha ha, I love that one.
I would like to add:
How to read specifications
How to write a specification
and
Generic terms for building materials, i.e. Tapcon, Corian, Tyvek, etc.
only two years of optimism orhan?
i wonder how much of above COULD be in school setting.
by the time you get around to understanding that client relations - and ways of organising staff so they are learning/working effectively - is as impt as designing nice spaces, i imagine you will be out of school for several years...
and in school could you even use that knowledge anyway?
how to not judge your success on others apparent success
how to escape debt and poverty
how to conceptualise your own reality
I love the book by Frederick...I always have it in my bag when I am on the train...
One thing that I did not learn in school is building code-specifically NYC building code and zoning resolution, landmarks...I had a crash course in it but I am glad that I understand it now...
I also realized that it would not be a bad idea to have a lawyer on speed dial...it seems that architects get sued all the time!
jump, you are right. it should be at least another 10 years, but ideally and necessarily, lifetime if you want to stay in.
How to detail a wall section!
resurrecting this thread...
that who you work with is more important than the type of work you are doing.
a firm is only as good as its leadership
leadership isn't the same as being an asshole
how to get clients, keep them, and get them to pay.
that the stuff you learn in building systems and professional practice courses is most of what you'll be doing on a day-to-day basis.
how to be super-meticulous about everything while still meeting deadlines.
developing schmoozing and good communication skills is more important to landing and keeping work than actual design talent. this is why crap gets built.
if you want to do interesting projects, you have to actually go out there and invent them. you'll have to work very hard, spend your own time and money, and it may take many years until someone even considers paying you for your wacky ideas (if at all).
how and when to say no to something.
Which skills you should develop and which skills you should hire.
Mantaray,
You have some GREAT advice in your comments. I'm hoping you can elaborate on a few items (or write a book) such as 1, 2, and 3 from your first post.
Communication seems to be key to a successful practice, but it's damn hard, and particularly when your clients have different and often very misguided impressions of what the architect's role is, and what their role is.
farwest - I think it comes down to just listening to clients and colleagues, being honest about what you are doing, and being clear and direct about your expectations. Also - it's ok to admit you do not know something but it's important that you take the initiative in finding the answer.
people (both clients and staff) need to know that they are being heard, that you are being honest with them, and they need to see that you will work hard to find solutions.
It just takes time to gain the client's trust. It's like any relationship - it won't work unless both sides understand each other's expectations at the beginning. And no matter what you do, some clients are always going to be crappy clients - after a while you'll learn how to identify who these people are and stay away from them.
Ah, thank you farwest, I'm glad my comments helped! BUT I can't take the credit. I worked for a pair of excellent architects and excellent communicators for a few years who taught me a lot about human psychology and why it matters so much in life -- not just in the specific client relationship. It is a fascinating subject. Once you understand why your client is flipping out over Insignificant Thing X, you can address the real (underlying) reason and guide the relationship back to productivity. (Hint : a lot of it has to do with client needing to feel in control -- not just in "power" but in control as in "having all the information, not being in the dark, and being able to see what's going to happen in the near and far future on the project.") The teacher-student relationship is an interesting one, too.
It's amazing how much of human interaction follows very prescriptive and identifiable patterns, and it's amazing how much of life depends on human interaction.
Anyway I'll have to ask my former bosses to write the book! Actually, that WOULD be interesting...
Go secure the rights, manta!
How to design a building that has at least a 50% chance of ever being given a permit in any city in America.
If we could get here, architecture school will have advanced decades.
mantaray,
i understand if you're reluctant to say, but can I ask who your former bosses are? You can email me if you want. Our profession is filled with lots of people who unfortunately aren't that great at communication—or rather, who can talk architecture at people, but can't necessarily talk with people.
I like the concept of better communication—I'm always trying to improve mine, with clients, with my friends, with my wife, with contractors.
on the fence, maybe i'm not working on anything interesting or pushing any boundaries, but i've never been denied a permit.
I am talking about while in school. The designs seem to ignore any thought as to real life/code compliance/life safety/health and wellfare of the people applications.
Instead I was once told that a space of about 2 feet wide by about 6 feet deep was sufficient to place my staircase to the 2nd floor. The intent was enough for my professors. The fact that I had "thought" to put the staircase in was as good as actually putting one in that would work.
Of course in a working invironement, we would expect the design to get a permit. If it didn't you would be out of a job quickly. I don't understand employers and clients thinking versus professors sometimes. ;)
Should all schools of architecture put you massive debt to make sure that your scrappy 23 year old self can get a permit for any little project your heart desires?
Design education as a finish school for industry production is my idea of training people to be anti-christs.
I hope that isn't a response you feel I should reflect upon.
On the fence, when you can design an entire building and get it through permitting it in under 10 weeks, while taking 3 college classes, then feel free to hold architecture schools to that standard. Until then, I'm happy to let schools teach how to design and let practice teach how to negotiate bureaucracy.
Manataray,
That is why, when you get out of school, you are paid as if you were the senior barrista at starbucks. Of course the senior barrista doesn't have 50,000 - 100,000 in loans to pay off. All that design "knowledge" you picked up from school is worth about zip to nada once you get hired. The majority of firms are hiring new graduates not to design but to do the more routine functions such as wall sections, details, specifications, so on and so forth. The attitude has always been, "they will teach you how a building works at the firm that hires you" is what keeps us either unemployable upon graduation or at a substandard rate for the degree's we may have obtained.
Wouldn't it be nice to stop the constant complaining about our salaries? Maybe the schools should start teaching us something outside of how to look at a flower vase and create a livable space from it.
Of course not OTF - I wouldn't dare ask you to stoop so low as to reflect on anything. But if you did decide to do as such, and create your perfect curriculum, and found and fund your perfect school, I would certainly apply.
Well, I certainly am not looking for perfect. Oh wait we already have that. But more balanced between what architecture school and professors want and what the industry needs certainly would be benificial to not only them but the graduates as well.
I'm aware this thread is pretty old, but I wanted you all to know that I WROTE THE BOOK and it's available for pre-order and on sale in a few days!
101 Things I Didn't Learn in Architecture School
...And wish I had known before my first job
By Sarah Lebner
https://www.myfirstarchitecturejob.com/book
ENJOY!