So, a friend referred their friend to me to help with renovation and potentially an addition to a piece of residential property they recently acquired. I've only had one conversation with him so far and to my current understanding he just wants drawings (at least renderings, and I'm not sure if they need CD's) done for the contractors to understand and utilize. The propert is two hours away from me so I've asked him to email me photos and original CD's if he can acquire them from the county just to start. I'm a little intimidated by this potential job because I really don't know what I'm legally permitted to do here in California considering that I'm fresh out of school and unlicensed so I'm looking for any sort of advice or things I should be considering before taking on this job.
J5LO
Aug 16, 13 11:18 am
Check with the local building department. I've worked on residential projects in California that only needed signed and stamped structural drawings. If this is the case for your project, I believe you can provide your client (and structural engineer) with an unstamped architectural set. Make sure it is clear with the contractor that the legally binding drawings are your structural drawings, NOT the architecturals.
poop876
Aug 16, 13 11:25 am
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NON-LICENSED ARCHITECT.
You are an Architect if you are licensed. If you are not licensed....you are something else.
Janosh
Aug 16, 13 11:27 am
Under state law, non-licensed persons are allowed to design some low risk buildings without an architect. This includes:
Single-family dwellings of woodframe construction not more than two stories and basement in height.
Although this is the State law, follow J5LO's advice and check with the building department as a few municipalities have more stringent requirements. The bigger issue for you is going to be whether you are professionally able to do the work without costing your friend of a friend tons of money.
BabbleBeautiful
Aug 16, 13 11:41 am
Thanks for the correction, poop. I really hope we can move on from this horrible mistake I made and be friends.
J5LO and Janosh, much appreciated. Will do. Is there a square footage threshold?
s=r*(theta)
Aug 16, 13 12:17 pm
I think i understand why they call you poop, ate, seventy-six.......
poop876
Aug 16, 13 1:15 pm
as long as you know the difference, as some of us have worked very hard and spent a lot of time and money to have that title!
Good luck on the project though!
Miles Jaffe
Aug 16, 13 3:06 pm
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NON-LICENSED ARCHITECT.
Tell that to Preston Scott Cohen, Chair of the Department of Architecture at Harvard and principle at Preston Scott Cohen, .Inc.
J5LO
Aug 16, 13 3:23 pm
afrdzk - I wouldnt rule it out as a mistake just yet. If it is the case that all you need is stamped structural drawings it is still within the realm of possibility. You will need to contract a structural engineer and provide them with dimensioned floor plans and some sections and elevations to work from.
When heading into the construction set, dont detail anything that will be covered in the structural set. Most small scale residential contractors will want to go on autopilot for a wood framed house and you dont want to get hit with a bunch of change orders if their field details dont match up with your drawings.
s=r*(theta)
Aug 16, 13 3:35 pm
"
"as some of us have worked very hard and spent a lot of time and money to have that title!"
ROFLMBO!! U mean the title of "non-licensed", by the way imbho, i think just about all of us work long, hard, & are spending alot of money (espeacially on the weekends ;)
breaker breaker
over & out
BabbleBeautiful
Aug 16, 13 3:52 pm
Well, fortunately, the client is a structural engineer and will take care of that portion. I really think all he wants me to do is create renderings and basic floor plans/elevations, but we'll see when I talk to him more.
citizen
Aug 16, 13 3:57 pm
Interesting link to Cohen's website. Nowhere is he called an architect, and the first line in each bio of his two top lieutenants states their licensure as architects.
So Cohen gets it right.
( o Y o )
Aug 16, 13 4:19 pm
Cohen is not an architect, but he practices architecture. Or do you have to call it building design to protect those who've spent vast fortunes in time and money acquiring a title (and not necessarily the skill)?
toasteroven
Aug 16, 13 4:33 pm
I acquired both title and estates through my vast fortunes. unfortunately that means I have to constantly attend these ridiculous royal dinners. those things are t e d i o u s.
poop876
Aug 16, 13 4:53 pm
its always the "designers" and students that are still early in the game that bitch about the title haha....but once and if they get licensed they switch sides!
snooker-doodle-dandy
Aug 16, 13 5:30 pm
I think it is easy enough to pull the the Architectural Registration Board of California and see who they fine and why they fine. It your eyes your are either doing something bad or they don't give a damn. I believe they have a list of everyone they have ever fined and for what reasons. It is not about knowledge it is about Smarts... Now go get some smarts, before you are fined and maybe mess up your path to registration in California.
Volunteer
Aug 16, 13 9:08 pm
I have friends who are Mechanical and Civil Engineers. Although they now have their PE licenses they were always referred to as engineers since university graduation. What is to be gained by not referring to a graduate architect who has not yet obtained his professional liscense as an architect?
He could hand you a business card stating his name, Bachelor of Architecture, State U. What would you call him? Cad Monkey? He has studied five years in an accredited university and earned a degree.
Volunteer, the problem is that recent graduates don't know what they don't know... Once you have ten years of experience and have gained your license you will have a different perspective on things. Drawing a house is no big deal (and doesn't require a licensed architect), but the types of buildings that do require licensure are far more complicated, and nothing that you are taught in school will have prepared you to do it in a way that is responsible to the public or your client.
citizen
Aug 17, 13 1:47 am
Now, that's some interesting reading, thanks to Miles. A high school classmate, a fellow faculty member, a competitor... and those are just in a couple of letters...
Volunteer
Aug 17, 13 8:21 am
Janosh, Thanks for the reply, but how or why is that different from the engineering field?
And, seriously, what do you call yourself during the ten years you are working toward your liscense?
Wilma Buttfit
Aug 17, 13 9:19 am
"the problem is that recent graduates don't know what they don't know" Ok, then don't you think all of these schools peddling PROFESSIONAL degrees in architecture need to have their accreditation taken away until their programs can create PROFESSIONALS?
Miles Jaffe
Aug 17, 13 9:31 am
+++ tint
poop876
Aug 17, 13 11:15 am
Thanks Miles, I could not stop reading those!
poop876
Aug 17, 13 11:22 am
there is no there,
those schools give you diplomas and take your money, they do not create professionals. I don't remember ever learning in school the difference between fire wall, fire partition and fire separation and trust me the difference is very critical in the real world without pretty renderings.
An architect will know the difference and for a reason!
Miles Jaffe
Aug 17, 13 12:46 pm
An architect *might* know the difference and the reason, but if he does it most certainly wouldn't be because he learned it in school.
vado retro
Aug 17, 13 1:06 pm
given the time it now takes to get that professional degree, i see no reason why graduates shouldn't graduate as registered architects. seven exams over the course of a march degree seems logical to me. after all, there is zero design on the a.r.e. unless you count a ada compliant ramp. its codes and contracts and some structure and some hvac. all which should be covered in the course of a professional degree. finish the exams pass them get registration. then either go work for someone or if you can start your own business. the idp indentured servitude model needs to be retired.
Miles Jaffe
Aug 18, 13 11:21 am
^ Agreed. I'd add some form of internship in architecture or construction (preferably both) into the degree process.
Tofan Rafati
Aug 18, 13 12:23 pm
Isn't that the model for most European countries?
johnmoss
Oct 16, 18 3:06 am
never listen to someone who applies themself to much. Who said there's no such thing as a non registered architect. I'm sure the guy who made up the first test applied himself out of that test. Grandfather me into the national registry of non registered architects. I want to be the guy who writes that test. First question:
Are you associated to the guys who get hours every year just to be registered architects.
Answer: can you explain associated with a few more shots. It's the same thing but different but I'd loved to be if I wasnt to busy thinking
So, a friend referred their friend to me to help with renovation and potentially an addition to a piece of residential property they recently acquired. I've only had one conversation with him so far and to my current understanding he just wants drawings (at least renderings, and I'm not sure if they need CD's) done for the contractors to understand and utilize. The propert is two hours away from me so I've asked him to email me photos and original CD's if he can acquire them from the county just to start. I'm a little intimidated by this potential job because I really don't know what I'm legally permitted to do here in California considering that I'm fresh out of school and unlicensed so I'm looking for any sort of advice or things I should be considering before taking on this job.
Check with the local building department. I've worked on residential projects in California that only needed signed and stamped structural drawings. If this is the case for your project, I believe you can provide your client (and structural engineer) with an unstamped architectural set. Make sure it is clear with the contractor that the legally binding drawings are your structural drawings, NOT the architecturals.
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NON-LICENSED ARCHITECT.
You are an Architect if you are licensed. If you are not licensed....you are something else.
Under state law, non-licensed persons are allowed to design some low risk buildings without an architect. This includes:
Single-family dwellings of woodframe construction not more than two stories and basement in height.
Although this is the State law, follow J5LO's advice and check with the building department as a few municipalities have more stringent requirements. The bigger issue for you is going to be whether you are professionally able to do the work without costing your friend of a friend tons of money.
Thanks for the correction, poop. I really hope we can move on from this horrible mistake I made and be friends.
J5LO and Janosh, much appreciated. Will do. Is there a square footage threshold?
I think i understand why they call you poop, ate, seventy-six.......
as long as you know the difference, as some of us have worked very hard and spent a lot of time and money to have that title!
Good luck on the project though!
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS NON-LICENSED ARCHITECT.
Tell that to Preston Scott Cohen, Chair of the Department of Architecture at Harvard and principle at Preston Scott Cohen, .Inc.
afrdzk - I wouldnt rule it out as a mistake just yet. If it is the case that all you need is stamped structural drawings it is still within the realm of possibility. You will need to contract a structural engineer and provide them with dimensioned floor plans and some sections and elevations to work from.
When heading into the construction set, dont detail anything that will be covered in the structural set. Most small scale residential contractors will want to go on autopilot for a wood framed house and you dont want to get hit with a bunch of change orders if their field details dont match up with your drawings.
"
"as some of us have worked very hard and spent a lot of time and money to have that title!"
ROFLMBO!! U mean the title of "non-licensed", by the way imbho, i think just about all of us work long, hard, & are spending alot of money (espeacially on the weekends ;)
breaker breaker
over & out
Well, fortunately, the client is a structural engineer and will take care of that portion. I really think all he wants me to do is create renderings and basic floor plans/elevations, but we'll see when I talk to him more.
Interesting link to Cohen's website. Nowhere is he called an architect, and the first line in each bio of his two top lieutenants states their licensure as architects.
So Cohen gets it right.
Cohen is not an architect, but he practices architecture. Or do you have to call it building design to protect those who've spent vast fortunes in time and money acquiring a title (and not necessarily the skill)?
I acquired both title and estates through my vast fortunes. unfortunately that means I have to constantly attend these ridiculous royal dinners. those things are t e d i o u s.
its always the "designers" and students that are still early in the game that bitch about the title haha....but once and if they get licensed they switch sides!
I think it is easy enough to pull the the Architectural Registration Board of California and see who they fine and why they fine. It your eyes your are either doing something bad or they don't give a damn. I believe they have a list of everyone they have ever fined and for what reasons. It is not about knowledge it is about Smarts... Now go get some smarts, before you are fined and maybe mess up your path to registration in California.
I have friends who are Mechanical and Civil Engineers. Although they now have their PE licenses they were always referred to as engineers since university graduation. What is to be gained by not referring to a graduate architect who has not yet obtained his professional liscense as an architect? He could hand you a business card stating his name, Bachelor of Architecture, State U. What would you call him? Cad Monkey? He has studied five years in an accredited university and earned a degree.
Architectural Registration Board of California Enforcement Actions
Volunteer, the problem is that recent graduates don't know what they don't know... Once you have ten years of experience and have gained your license you will have a different perspective on things. Drawing a house is no big deal (and doesn't require a licensed architect), but the types of buildings that do require licensure are far more complicated, and nothing that you are taught in school will have prepared you to do it in a way that is responsible to the public or your client.
Now, that's some interesting reading, thanks to Miles. A high school classmate, a fellow faculty member, a competitor... and those are just in a couple of letters...
Janosh, Thanks for the reply, but how or why is that different from the engineering field? And, seriously, what do you call yourself during the ten years you are working toward your liscense?
"the problem is that recent graduates don't know what they don't know" Ok, then don't you think all of these schools peddling PROFESSIONAL degrees in architecture need to have their accreditation taken away until their programs can create PROFESSIONALS?
+++ tint
Thanks Miles, I could not stop reading those!
there is no there,
those schools give you diplomas and take your money, they do not create professionals. I don't remember ever learning in school the difference between fire wall, fire partition and fire separation and trust me the difference is very critical in the real world without pretty renderings.
An architect will know the difference and for a reason!
An architect *might* know the difference and the reason, but if he does it most certainly wouldn't be because he learned it in school.
given the time it now takes to get that professional degree, i see no reason why graduates shouldn't graduate as registered architects. seven exams over the course of a march degree seems logical to me. after all, there is zero design on the a.r.e. unless you count a ada compliant ramp. its codes and contracts and some structure and some hvac. all which should be covered in the course of a professional degree. finish the exams pass them get registration. then either go work for someone or if you can start your own business. the idp indentured servitude model needs to be retired.
^ Agreed. I'd add some form of internship in architecture or construction (preferably both) into the degree process.
Isn't that the model for most European countries?
never listen to someone who applies themself to much. Who said there's no such thing as a non registered architect. I'm sure the guy who made up the first test applied himself out of that test. Grandfather me into the national registry of non registered architects. I want to be the guy who writes that test. First question:
Are you associated to the guys who get hours every year just to be registered architects.
Answer: can you explain associated with a few more shots. It's the same thing but different but I'd loved to be if I wasnt to busy thinking
Of all people... :-)
Will
So long as there's a test.....