So, I decided to apply to AA months back. Of course I've done nothing but work on my portfolio for the interim. I really wish I had gotten away for the open day in the fall now.
My B.A. is in Finance, I've been out of school for 3.5. Most of the time I worked as a graphic designer doing lots of indesign work. Summer 2006 I did discovery at GSD, loved it- became obsessed, went to open houses last fall decided I wasn't ready to submit a portfolio, I had an opportunity to apprenticeship with a contractor and learn basic construction and building technology, I thought that would be great because I didn't think it would be easy to get that kind of experience after starting m.arch. In the evenings, I enrolled in a bunch of evening courses art courses continuing education school. I had been using rhino before Discovery, I've since learned to script in perl and a bit of python/ruby. Pretty much the past year has been preparing portfolio for M. Arch I apps.
I'm just recanting this because I'm hoping someone that has experience with AA can tell me where my application belongs. I see foundation as the proper choice and I have no objection to that whatsoever.
I would just love to have a little reassurance before shipping this off transatlantic. I tried to find old threads about this, I was shocked I couldn't find any.
Also, what's the penalty for submitting a late application? They give a late deadline as if this is a second round of applications? Is there any reason I wouldn't want to spend more with my portfolio? I assume it's more competitive as spaces decrease? Love to hear from someone who knows.
dlb
Jan 7, 08 4:19 am
first thing to remember about the AA is that it is a private - non-government funded - institution. other than a few endowments (meagre by US standards) the school is supported solely by student tuition. therefore, all decisions are based on how the school makes enough money each year to carry on. deadlines are a necessary part of the institutional process, but they are not absolute and fixed.
a good portfolio, a good interview, and the requisite tuition fee will almost always be accepted. the grad program is slightly different as the spaces are more limited and there is now more competition for them, but again, showing that you can PAY and having a good portfolio or even a mediocre portfolio but being able to show a determination to learn, to test and to produce lots of work, will likely make for a successful application.
are you just applying for M.Arch I or are you serious about the foundation course? if you take foundation, then you will have 6 years in front of you to get an AA.Dipl, which is somewhere between a B.Arch and a M.Arch, but based on the British placement for professional registration the UK.
not sure if the MArch I application asks for it or not, but being available to be in London for an interview in the coming months might clear up concerns on your part and also allow you to shine to the selection panel - especially for a non-architectural background.
mgs
Jan 7, 08 1:25 pm
dlb, thanks so much for responding!
This does help, I will certainly be available for an interview. I had been looking at that as a necessary piece of the process and I think you're right, the visit will clarify a lot of these questions.
As far as the foundation course vs. M. Arch I, I am under the impression that because I don't have a professional degree at this point I must apply to foundation. It looked to me like a B.Arch or AA Diploma was a necessary part of the AA M.Arch I. I had thought the AA Diploma + my Bachelor's would put me in a similar place (if not more advanced as it is 3 more years) as an M.Arch I.
Are there implication on my future registration with the AIA? Will there be a significant number of other students in similar positions?
Sorry for the ?'s, I really appreciate the help though!!
treekiller
Jan 7, 08 1:29 pm
also, the AA's curriculum has less structure then what you'd encounter in an american institution. for a first professional degree, I would not suggest this since it would take soooooo long to complete the foundation course. there is no equivalent for the 3 1/2 year m.arch at the aa, the masters program is more post-professional...
If you want the AA experience, without the immigration hassle, go to the KSA which has a long standing exchange program so you can get a semester in london.
walter_
Mar 12, 08 10:11 am
I hope this response isn't too late - mgs - you are correct about not being able to apply to the MArch. There is no MArch I at the AA - all master's degrees are post-professional. If you are unsure about architecture, I'd suggest you apply to foundation. If you are sure that architecture is for you, go into first year. Intermediate School is 3 years, and you follow it up with 2 years in the Diploma School. An AA Diploma is more or less equivalent to an MArch in the states, in that it is a professional degree, and I'm almost positive it will be accepted by NCARB [with a little sweet-talking]. That is something you should look into before applying, but if you want to work in the UK your AADipl is what you need. Although an exchange program would be fantastic, I don't think you can get the AA experience without being at the AA full-time. But that's just my opinion, and I may be brainwashed.
vado retro
Mar 12, 08 10:37 am
i hope you have money as the dollar is practically worthless in england right now...
TED
Mar 12, 08 11:59 am
there are 3-18 month MArch's at the AA but they all require a prior degree in architecture -- DRL, Emtech + environmental -
there is no immigration hassle - easy to get a student visa and work after degree [20 hr/week max during school] 4 courses either do a MA or MS 12 month program.
you should try to do the first year of part I not foundation -
AA well worth it - nothing compares in the US
Bloopox
Mar 12, 08 12:34 pm
Unfortunately, for licensing purposes the issues are more complex than "sweet-talking" NCARB. It doesn't matter that the degree is a professional degree in the UK. In the US NCARB has no reciprocity agreements to accept degrees from other countries except for with Canada. Degrees from the AA are not considered equivalent to a US professional degree. This is one reason that are often AA grads in US M.Arch programs - because some seeing licensure in the US find that it's easier to go back and get an NAAB-accredited degree in the US than to get licensed without it in some states.
There are a number of licensing implications that you should understand, if one of your goals is to be licensed as an architect in the US: to be authorized to take the licensing exams and to become licensed/registered in most states you would need to go through "evaluation" of your foreign degree. This is expensive (+/- $1000 for the most typically required type of evaluation, on top of all the other application, testing, licensing, etc. fees) and often comes up with deficiencies that need to be satisfied with additional courses in the US or sometimes with CLEP exams. Strangely a lot of people with degrees from European institutions are found deficient in things like geology and earth science - not necessarily things that are even part of a typical architecture curriculum in the US.
Some states will not grant reciprocity without NCARB certification, and NCARB certification requires a US or Canadian professional degree. There is a long, expensive, convoluted application process for another type of NCARB certificate for those with foreign degrees, but it requires that you have been licensed as an architect for a certain number of years before you're even eligible to apply, and certain states don't accept that type of certification anyway.
walter_
Mar 12, 08 4:59 pm
fair enough.
still, the AA is fantastic.
TED
Mar 13, 08 4:42 pm
'AA are not considered equivalent to a US professional degree'
this is only by NCARB representing a protectionist profession through control of its borders. where there is a will there is always a way.
AA is by far a much better education than you can get anywhere in the states hands down. better than gsd, yale and any of the ivies.
SavedByTech
Mar 13, 08 9:17 pm
Why is there so much confusion info out there about the AA...
mgs -what is it you're looking todo? First of all, to answer all your questions and concerns vis-a-vis your original post, the school actually has full-time staff that are employed and paid to provide the answers to those - even your concerns about where to enter/apply in the AA, considering your goals, experience, previous degrees etc. CALL THEM!! - or if you find it hard to formulate, write an email to the correct individual.
Also, the school has a website with a ton of info - incl. online versions of student work from 2005/6 - 2006/7. aalog.net gives you a photo diary of life at the school. You'll also find descriptions of the various courses. And most importantly - cost.
Where I perhaps fail to be able to give you a perspective, but going on tales from students that have joined from elsewhere, the AA experience can be a little different/overwhelming to people coming from other institutions. I don't know how they do it, but they somehow manage to push you to the limit and will typically ask that you enter a year below previous academic experience, if that makes sense.
As for Foundation - it's really a gateway to the school, and I wish I'd done it, but decided it was better to save the money. However, Foundation could also be a good way to get one of those elusive two-term scholarships that the school offers for the following 3 years (they're in short supply though). And although First Year is certainly geared as an introduction to various architectural tools, the Foundation course will be free of other "distractions" like History&Theory and Technical Studies...Kind of gives you a year to just play and get familiar with how the place works and operates, which might otherwise take away some energy if you decided to try for First Year/Second Year...I think Foundation has been downplayed in the past, but recently has started to come into its own right at the school. BE STRATEGIC!!
The AA isn't really a place where you will get clear guidance on how to approach architecture or teach you specific tools...You'll pick it up as you go along and be expected to be extremely self-motivated, but if you're able to define your own interests and pursue those with energy, nobody will try and hold you back. The school is really a place of ideas, however banal/obvious that may sound...
On a practical note, if you do decide to apply, be prepared to live in London which is one of the most expensive cities in the world. Also, you'll find it hard to work whilst studying, so keep that in mind when you do the finances. Really try and set yourself up financially (leave some margin) so that you're able to milk the AA experience for all that it's worth...
Summary:
If you want to take your time and can afford it, consider Foundation
If you want to fast track a bit, go for First Year
If you're feeling cocky, go for Second and if the AA doesn't feel your portfolio whatever is upto it, but they like you, they'll probably offer you First Year anyway...
You sound like a First Year to me.
Hope this helps you and others and hope that I didn't manage to include too much bogus info. TED - help us out here.
SavedByTech
Mar 13, 08 9:30 pm
Also, First Year has been expanded to double the size for the last couple of years, approx. 55 students, which have been given a great studio space at the school (where space otherwise is a rare commodity)...So you stand a good chance of getting in if you can pay. Don't forget to apply for the scholarship along with your application!
As for portfolio do check the guidelines as I think they now ask for specific format and number of sheets, DVD etc.
Also want to mention that after 3 years of studying/living in the UK you'll be eligible for UK student loans and fee/maintenance support - approx £10K a year if you max out, of which approx. 2/3's are repayable. This of course may change in the future.
TED
Mar 13, 08 11:06 pm
The only thing i would add is that as a student i do not find london as expensive as one anticipates - you adapt - bike, flat share are very reasonable - printing at AA is high compared to other places -- who comes into the door and works within the various units is amazing - it is an institution that sets the discourse of architecture - not following -- so what is that worth if your serious about your craft.
the cafe / bar is very reasonable and the heart of the school - lunch at aa is very very reasonable and with french chefs who care about good healthy food -
the Marchs in the US are driven by licensure criteria and ARE NOT true Masters or true research degrees -- they are equivalant to the UK Diploma which is a post professional degree. Many students in intermediate and diploma take the same unit for more than one year which really helps set forth strong ideology. The US method is design studios flipping semester to semester generally looking at one ideology one semester and can do ther reverse the next semester. In the UK and at the AA you have the same unit masters the full year and ofter the projects develop a strong basis for a research agenda within the first term carried through to the end of the year.
its just a much better system.
tandonico
Mar 31, 18 12:09 am
@SavedByTech I entered first year in 2015 with the number of students at a record 108 !
I think @mgs would have had good prospects of entering first year based on his previous experience in design.
History+Theory studies added on stress that made me question whether the university is more about Architecture as a form discussion than an art to design purposely functional and aesthetically pleasing places for people to experience/reside in.
So, I decided to apply to AA months back. Of course I've done nothing but work on my portfolio for the interim. I really wish I had gotten away for the open day in the fall now.
My B.A. is in Finance, I've been out of school for 3.5. Most of the time I worked as a graphic designer doing lots of indesign work. Summer 2006 I did discovery at GSD, loved it- became obsessed, went to open houses last fall decided I wasn't ready to submit a portfolio, I had an opportunity to apprenticeship with a contractor and learn basic construction and building technology, I thought that would be great because I didn't think it would be easy to get that kind of experience after starting m.arch. In the evenings, I enrolled in a bunch of evening courses art courses continuing education school. I had been using rhino before Discovery, I've since learned to script in perl and a bit of python/ruby. Pretty much the past year has been preparing portfolio for M. Arch I apps.
I'm just recanting this because I'm hoping someone that has experience with AA can tell me where my application belongs. I see foundation as the proper choice and I have no objection to that whatsoever.
I would just love to have a little reassurance before shipping this off transatlantic. I tried to find old threads about this, I was shocked I couldn't find any.
Also, what's the penalty for submitting a late application? They give a late deadline as if this is a second round of applications? Is there any reason I wouldn't want to spend more with my portfolio? I assume it's more competitive as spaces decrease? Love to hear from someone who knows.
first thing to remember about the AA is that it is a private - non-government funded - institution. other than a few endowments (meagre by US standards) the school is supported solely by student tuition. therefore, all decisions are based on how the school makes enough money each year to carry on. deadlines are a necessary part of the institutional process, but they are not absolute and fixed.
a good portfolio, a good interview, and the requisite tuition fee will almost always be accepted. the grad program is slightly different as the spaces are more limited and there is now more competition for them, but again, showing that you can PAY and having a good portfolio or even a mediocre portfolio but being able to show a determination to learn, to test and to produce lots of work, will likely make for a successful application.
are you just applying for M.Arch I or are you serious about the foundation course? if you take foundation, then you will have 6 years in front of you to get an AA.Dipl, which is somewhere between a B.Arch and a M.Arch, but based on the British placement for professional registration the UK.
not sure if the MArch I application asks for it or not, but being available to be in London for an interview in the coming months might clear up concerns on your part and also allow you to shine to the selection panel - especially for a non-architectural background.
dlb, thanks so much for responding!
This does help, I will certainly be available for an interview. I had been looking at that as a necessary piece of the process and I think you're right, the visit will clarify a lot of these questions.
As far as the foundation course vs. M. Arch I, I am under the impression that because I don't have a professional degree at this point I must apply to foundation. It looked to me like a B.Arch or AA Diploma was a necessary part of the AA M.Arch I. I had thought the AA Diploma + my Bachelor's would put me in a similar place (if not more advanced as it is 3 more years) as an M.Arch I.
Are there implication on my future registration with the AIA? Will there be a significant number of other students in similar positions?
Sorry for the ?'s, I really appreciate the help though!!
also, the AA's curriculum has less structure then what you'd encounter in an american institution. for a first professional degree, I would not suggest this since it would take soooooo long to complete the foundation course. there is no equivalent for the 3 1/2 year m.arch at the aa, the masters program is more post-professional...
If you want the AA experience, without the immigration hassle, go to the KSA which has a long standing exchange program so you can get a semester in london.
I hope this response isn't too late - mgs - you are correct about not being able to apply to the MArch. There is no MArch I at the AA - all master's degrees are post-professional. If you are unsure about architecture, I'd suggest you apply to foundation. If you are sure that architecture is for you, go into first year. Intermediate School is 3 years, and you follow it up with 2 years in the Diploma School. An AA Diploma is more or less equivalent to an MArch in the states, in that it is a professional degree, and I'm almost positive it will be accepted by NCARB [with a little sweet-talking]. That is something you should look into before applying, but if you want to work in the UK your AADipl is what you need. Although an exchange program would be fantastic, I don't think you can get the AA experience without being at the AA full-time. But that's just my opinion, and I may be brainwashed.
i hope you have money as the dollar is practically worthless in england right now...
there are 3-18 month MArch's at the AA but they all require a prior degree in architecture -- DRL, Emtech + environmental -
there is no immigration hassle - easy to get a student visa and work after degree [20 hr/week max during school] 4 courses either do a MA or MS 12 month program.
you should try to do the first year of part I not foundation -
AA well worth it - nothing compares in the US
Unfortunately, for licensing purposes the issues are more complex than "sweet-talking" NCARB. It doesn't matter that the degree is a professional degree in the UK. In the US NCARB has no reciprocity agreements to accept degrees from other countries except for with Canada. Degrees from the AA are not considered equivalent to a US professional degree. This is one reason that are often AA grads in US M.Arch programs - because some seeing licensure in the US find that it's easier to go back and get an NAAB-accredited degree in the US than to get licensed without it in some states.
There are a number of licensing implications that you should understand, if one of your goals is to be licensed as an architect in the US: to be authorized to take the licensing exams and to become licensed/registered in most states you would need to go through "evaluation" of your foreign degree. This is expensive (+/- $1000 for the most typically required type of evaluation, on top of all the other application, testing, licensing, etc. fees) and often comes up with deficiencies that need to be satisfied with additional courses in the US or sometimes with CLEP exams. Strangely a lot of people with degrees from European institutions are found deficient in things like geology and earth science - not necessarily things that are even part of a typical architecture curriculum in the US.
Some states will not grant reciprocity without NCARB certification, and NCARB certification requires a US or Canadian professional degree. There is a long, expensive, convoluted application process for another type of NCARB certificate for those with foreign degrees, but it requires that you have been licensed as an architect for a certain number of years before you're even eligible to apply, and certain states don't accept that type of certification anyway.
fair enough.
still, the AA is fantastic.
'AA are not considered equivalent to a US professional degree'
this is only by NCARB representing a protectionist profession through control of its borders. where there is a will there is always a way.
AA is by far a much better education than you can get anywhere in the states hands down. better than gsd, yale and any of the ivies.
Why is there so much confusion info out there about the AA...
mgs -what is it you're looking todo? First of all, to answer all your questions and concerns vis-a-vis your original post, the school actually has full-time staff that are employed and paid to provide the answers to those - even your concerns about where to enter/apply in the AA, considering your goals, experience, previous degrees etc. CALL THEM!! - or if you find it hard to formulate, write an email to the correct individual.
Also, the school has a website with a ton of info - incl. online versions of student work from 2005/6 - 2006/7. aalog.net gives you a photo diary of life at the school. You'll also find descriptions of the various courses. And most importantly - cost.
Where I perhaps fail to be able to give you a perspective, but going on tales from students that have joined from elsewhere, the AA experience can be a little different/overwhelming to people coming from other institutions. I don't know how they do it, but they somehow manage to push you to the limit and will typically ask that you enter a year below previous academic experience, if that makes sense.
As for Foundation - it's really a gateway to the school, and I wish I'd done it, but decided it was better to save the money. However, Foundation could also be a good way to get one of those elusive two-term scholarships that the school offers for the following 3 years (they're in short supply though). And although First Year is certainly geared as an introduction to various architectural tools, the Foundation course will be free of other "distractions" like History&Theory and Technical Studies...Kind of gives you a year to just play and get familiar with how the place works and operates, which might otherwise take away some energy if you decided to try for First Year/Second Year...I think Foundation has been downplayed in the past, but recently has started to come into its own right at the school. BE STRATEGIC!!
The AA isn't really a place where you will get clear guidance on how to approach architecture or teach you specific tools...You'll pick it up as you go along and be expected to be extremely self-motivated, but if you're able to define your own interests and pursue those with energy, nobody will try and hold you back. The school is really a place of ideas, however banal/obvious that may sound...
On a practical note, if you do decide to apply, be prepared to live in London which is one of the most expensive cities in the world. Also, you'll find it hard to work whilst studying, so keep that in mind when you do the finances. Really try and set yourself up financially (leave some margin) so that you're able to milk the AA experience for all that it's worth...
Summary:
If you want to take your time and can afford it, consider Foundation
If you want to fast track a bit, go for First Year
If you're feeling cocky, go for Second and if the AA doesn't feel your portfolio whatever is upto it, but they like you, they'll probably offer you First Year anyway...
You sound like a First Year to me.
Hope this helps you and others and hope that I didn't manage to include too much bogus info. TED - help us out here.
Also, First Year has been expanded to double the size for the last couple of years, approx. 55 students, which have been given a great studio space at the school (where space otherwise is a rare commodity)...So you stand a good chance of getting in if you can pay. Don't forget to apply for the scholarship along with your application!
As for portfolio do check the guidelines as I think they now ask for specific format and number of sheets, DVD etc.
Also want to mention that after 3 years of studying/living in the UK you'll be eligible for UK student loans and fee/maintenance support - approx £10K a year if you max out, of which approx. 2/3's are repayable. This of course may change in the future.
The only thing i would add is that as a student i do not find london as expensive as one anticipates - you adapt - bike, flat share are very reasonable - printing at AA is high compared to other places -- who comes into the door and works within the various units is amazing - it is an institution that sets the discourse of architecture - not following -- so what is that worth if your serious about your craft.
the cafe / bar is very reasonable and the heart of the school - lunch at aa is very very reasonable and with french chefs who care about good healthy food -
the Marchs in the US are driven by licensure criteria and ARE NOT true Masters or true research degrees -- they are equivalant to the UK Diploma which is a post professional degree. Many students in intermediate and diploma take the same unit for more than one year which really helps set forth strong ideology. The US method is design studios flipping semester to semester generally looking at one ideology one semester and can do ther reverse the next semester. In the UK and at the AA you have the same unit masters the full year and ofter the projects develop a strong basis for a research agenda within the first term carried through to the end of the year.
its just a much better system.
@SavedByTech I entered first year in 2015 with the number of students at a record 108 !
I think @mgs would have had good prospects of entering first year based on his previous experience in design.
History+Theory studies added on stress that made me question whether the university is more about Architecture as a form discussion than an art to design purposely functional and aesthetically pleasing places for people to experience/reside in.