I have buried myself in the IBC and the ICC/ANSI A117.1 trying to understand accessibility standards. Specifically, I am trying to determine the difference between an accessible space, a Type A unit, and a Type B unit. I am not looking for the detailed information, but perhaps some suggestions on understanding the big picture (as it applies to a dwelling unit).
A117.1 and the IBC seem to continually reference each other and I have yet to find a definition of the Type A/Type B.
Any code ninjas out there?
evilplatypus
Sep 20, 07 6:53 pm
amazingly Im doing the exact same thing right now and have no idea except that I need 20% type A accessable ( adaptable). They have to be shown with all ansi accessability requirements met for clearances and reaches or such things as millwork under sinks to be removable if the sink is to be adapted. But really - I cant figure it out, without someone whos been involved in the evolution of this shit from the begining can explain it - it doesnt help we dont have ansi book in my office, someone has it on their cpu I think
smallpotatoes
Sep 20, 07 7:00 pm
thanks ep, so far Chapter 10 in the ANSI does give some detail about each type but both sections just refer you back to compliance with chapter 11 of the IBC. I can't even decided for myself if a Type A unit is "more" accessible than the Type B. I need to make some comparisons for an ADA remodel, but am pretty stuck trying to understand...anyone???
snooker
Sep 20, 07 7:01 pm
don't touch that stuff,,,
vado retro
Sep 20, 07 7:38 pm
No Elevator: Residential Group R2 with no elevator then 100% of the dwelling units located at entry level must be a Type B accessible unit. Very similar to the Fair Housing Act requirements. If no elevator present you still have the 2% Type A required for more than twenty dwellings.
The IAC requires an elevator for two or more stories - how does it apply to this. The CRHA does not require elevators there is no threshold triggering provision that requires an elevator these scoping provisions would kick in based on whether or not a building has an elevator.
With Elevator - This is very similar to the Fair Housing Act in that all units served by the elevator would have to be Type B units and again 2% or one would have to be Type A units if you have twenty or more dwellings.
Multi-story units - If no elevator is provided within the unit then the building is not required to be Type B unit (i.e., townhouse units multi-story units without internal elevators.) If an external elevator is present then the floor served by the elevator must be Type B accessible, just like the Fair Housing Act. If Type A units are required then they have to be on an acceptable route so a multi-story unit and it was required to be Type A it would have to contain an internal elevator because the entire unit would be required.
Ms. Kimberly Paarlberg explained that there are three kinds of units in CRHA as follows:
Accessible - Needs to be constructed fully accessible, grab bars, clear floor spaces, clearings at doors everything. Not really required in housing but shows up in institutional facilities that Fair Housing has identified as places of residences.
Type A - Type B dwelling units has certain elements that
Doors have to have clear widths. There are certain elements that are allowed to be adaptable like the cabinets underneath the sink in the kitchen and the work surface you have to have maneuvering clearances available at doors within Type A but not Type B.
An accessible unit is fully wheelchair accessible right off the bat. Type A dwelling unit has certain adaptable elements that would make it very close once it was adapted fully to match an accessible dwelling unit. A Type B dwelling unit is more coming from the viewpoint of Fair Housing where they were going more for mobility-impaired people. A person in a wheelchair could use it but it would be more side approach to the sinks there would be certain areas (i.e., bedroom could be in loft area and not be accessible you could have a sunken living room). As long as if you were in a wheelchair or with walking aids it didn't allow you to address steps at all, but you could get to all the main elements, a bathroom, a kitchen, a living space on the accessible level. So it is kind of three separate types of units.
If you do accessible units you are exceeding Type A. If you do Type A you are exceeding Type B.
---------------------------------------
1107.6 Group R. Accessible units, Type A units and Type B units shall be provided in Group R Occupancies in accordance with Sections 1107.6.1 through 1107.6.4. Accessible and Type A units shall be apportioned among efficiency dwelling units, single bedroom units and multiple bedroom units, in proportion to the numbers of such units in the building.
1107.6.2.1.1 Type A units. In Group R-2 Occupancies containing more than 10 dwelling units or sleeping units, at least 5 percent, but not less than one, of the units shall be a Type A unit. All units on a site shall be considered to determine the total number of units and the required number of Type A units. Type A units shall be dispersed among the various classes of units.
EXCEPTIONS: 1. The number of Type A units is permitted to be reduced in accordance with Section 1107.7.
2. Existing structures on a site shall not contribute to the total number of units on a site.
1107.6.2.2 Group R-2 other than apartment houses, monasteries and convents. In Group R-2 Occupancies, other than apartment houses, monasteries and convents, Accessible units and Type B units shall be provided in accordance with Sections 1107.6.2.2.1 and 1107.6.2.2.2. Accessible units shall be dispersed among the various classes of units.
snooker
Sep 20, 07 7:48 pm
damn Vado....you should charge for all that information...
mdler
Sep 20, 07 7:56 pm
get a copy of CALDAG
THEaquino
Sep 20, 07 11:01 pm
Vado, can you please stop hijacking this thread with mindless drivel about how you should be worshipped for having 9000 posts. Thank you.
Nice get though. I had to read all that stuff at the begining of the summer...my head still hurts. Please tell me you copied and pasted that,
vado retro
Sep 20, 07 11:06 pm
i never said i should be worshipped. i just mentioned the amount of posts required before the worshipping process can begin...
evilplatypus
Sep 21, 07 10:25 am
essentially type A is adaptable to be fully accessable whearas type B follows the fair housing guidlines - be forewarned that not all projects have to comply to this stuff either - is your project in any way getting tax incentives or public funding inn any way? Even city sidewalks?
vado retro
Sep 21, 07 10:31 am
also if you have say three designs of your units a percentage of all of them must comply and they must be spread throughout the building.
smallpotatoes
Sep 21, 07 10:34 am
this is what I was looking for - general comparisons of the 3 categories so that I can then dive into the details of each. We have a ground-floor unit in a multi-unit complex to be upgraded for accessiblity and I wanted to provide the owner with varying levels of compliance/adaptation.
I think this presents a case where I am undoubtedly grateful of the wealth of knowledge that vado has bestowed. Thank you vado - for all the info AND for not billing me.
smallpotatoes
Sep 21, 07 10:41 am
I expect what we will be required to do is remodel one unit to be fully wheelchair accessible. The unit resides in a complex that is within a university campus.
vado retro
Sep 21, 07 10:44 am
your welcome. i meant to say that a percentage of each of the units will have to comply.
roaaia
Apr 8, 14 8:12 am
Thanks for the clarification - still pertinent now in 2014!
GeoffL
Mar 27, 18 12:42 pm
Great thread. vado - "If you do accessible units you are exceeding Type A. If you do Type A you are exceeding Type B." This is such an elegant piece of advice I want to use it - but, I have found that, Accessible WC can be between 16-18 inches off a wall; Type B units must be 18-inches off a wall. / GL
Peter Normand
Mar 27, 18 2:41 pm
FHA will cause the toilet location to be an 18" hold.
I have buried myself in the IBC and the ICC/ANSI A117.1 trying to understand accessibility standards. Specifically, I am trying to determine the difference between an accessible space, a Type A unit, and a Type B unit. I am not looking for the detailed information, but perhaps some suggestions on understanding the big picture (as it applies to a dwelling unit).
A117.1 and the IBC seem to continually reference each other and I have yet to find a definition of the Type A/Type B.
Any code ninjas out there?
amazingly Im doing the exact same thing right now and have no idea except that I need 20% type A accessable ( adaptable). They have to be shown with all ansi accessability requirements met for clearances and reaches or such things as millwork under sinks to be removable if the sink is to be adapted. But really - I cant figure it out, without someone whos been involved in the evolution of this shit from the begining can explain it - it doesnt help we dont have ansi book in my office, someone has it on their cpu I think
thanks ep, so far Chapter 10 in the ANSI does give some detail about each type but both sections just refer you back to compliance with chapter 11 of the IBC. I can't even decided for myself if a Type A unit is "more" accessible than the Type B. I need to make some comparisons for an ADA remodel, but am pretty stuck trying to understand...anyone???
don't touch that stuff,,,
No Elevator: Residential Group R2 with no elevator then 100% of the dwelling units located at entry level must be a Type B accessible unit. Very similar to the Fair Housing Act requirements. If no elevator present you still have the 2% Type A required for more than twenty dwellings.
The IAC requires an elevator for two or more stories - how does it apply to this. The CRHA does not require elevators there is no threshold triggering provision that requires an elevator these scoping provisions would kick in based on whether or not a building has an elevator.
With Elevator - This is very similar to the Fair Housing Act in that all units served by the elevator would have to be Type B units and again 2% or one would have to be Type A units if you have twenty or more dwellings.
Multi-story units - If no elevator is provided within the unit then the building is not required to be Type B unit (i.e., townhouse units multi-story units without internal elevators.) If an external elevator is present then the floor served by the elevator must be Type B accessible, just like the Fair Housing Act. If Type A units are required then they have to be on an acceptable route so a multi-story unit and it was required to be Type A it would have to contain an internal elevator because the entire unit would be required.
Ms. Kimberly Paarlberg explained that there are three kinds of units in CRHA as follows:
Accessible - Needs to be constructed fully accessible, grab bars, clear floor spaces, clearings at doors everything. Not really required in housing but shows up in institutional facilities that Fair Housing has identified as places of residences.
Type A - Type B dwelling units has certain elements that
Doors have to have clear widths. There are certain elements that are allowed to be adaptable like the cabinets underneath the sink in the kitchen and the work surface you have to have maneuvering clearances available at doors within Type A but not Type B.
An accessible unit is fully wheelchair accessible right off the bat. Type A dwelling unit has certain adaptable elements that would make it very close once it was adapted fully to match an accessible dwelling unit. A Type B dwelling unit is more coming from the viewpoint of Fair Housing where they were going more for mobility-impaired people. A person in a wheelchair could use it but it would be more side approach to the sinks there would be certain areas (i.e., bedroom could be in loft area and not be accessible you could have a sunken living room). As long as if you were in a wheelchair or with walking aids it didn't allow you to address steps at all, but you could get to all the main elements, a bathroom, a kitchen, a living space on the accessible level. So it is kind of three separate types of units.
If you do accessible units you are exceeding Type A. If you do Type A you are exceeding Type B.
---------------------------------------
1107.6 Group R. Accessible units, Type A units and Type B units shall be provided in Group R Occupancies in accordance with Sections 1107.6.1 through 1107.6.4. Accessible and Type A units shall be apportioned among efficiency dwelling units, single bedroom units and multiple bedroom units, in proportion to the numbers of such units in the building.
1107.6.2.1.1 Type A units. In Group R-2 Occupancies containing more than 10 dwelling units or sleeping units, at least 5 percent, but not less than one, of the units shall be a Type A unit. All units on a site shall be considered to determine the total number of units and the required number of Type A units. Type A units shall be dispersed among the various classes of units.
EXCEPTIONS: 1. The number of Type A units is permitted to be reduced in accordance with Section 1107.7.
2. Existing structures on a site shall not contribute to the total number of units on a site.
1107.6.2.2 Group R-2 other than apartment houses, monasteries and convents. In Group R-2 Occupancies, other than apartment houses, monasteries and convents, Accessible units and Type B units shall be provided in accordance with Sections 1107.6.2.2.1 and 1107.6.2.2.2. Accessible units shall be dispersed among the various classes of units.
damn Vado....you should charge for all that information...
get a copy of CALDAG
Vado, can you please stop hijacking this thread with mindless drivel about how you should be worshipped for having 9000 posts. Thank you.
Nice get though. I had to read all that stuff at the begining of the summer...my head still hurts. Please tell me you copied and pasted that,
i never said i should be worshipped. i just mentioned the amount of posts required before the worshipping process can begin...
essentially type A is adaptable to be fully accessable whearas type B follows the fair housing guidlines - be forewarned that not all projects have to comply to this stuff either - is your project in any way getting tax incentives or public funding inn any way? Even city sidewalks?
also if you have say three designs of your units a percentage of all of them must comply and they must be spread throughout the building.
this is what I was looking for - general comparisons of the 3 categories so that I can then dive into the details of each. We have a ground-floor unit in a multi-unit complex to be upgraded for accessiblity and I wanted to provide the owner with varying levels of compliance/adaptation.
I think this presents a case where I am undoubtedly grateful of the wealth of knowledge that vado has bestowed. Thank you vado - for all the info AND for not billing me.
I expect what we will be required to do is remodel one unit to be fully wheelchair accessible. The unit resides in a complex that is within a university campus.
your welcome. i meant to say that a percentage of each of the units will have to comply.
Thanks for the clarification - still pertinent now in 2014!
Great thread. vado - "If you do accessible units you are exceeding Type A. If you do Type A you are exceeding Type B." This is such an elegant piece of advice I want to use it - but, I have found that, Accessible WC can be between 16-18 inches off a wall; Type B units must be 18-inches off a wall. / GL
FHA will cause the toilet location to be an 18" hold.