I have heard that some firms will pay student loans if you agree to work for them for x amount of time. Is there anyone that is familiar with this?
med.
Jul 20, 07 3:26 pm
Man, I'd love to find those firms...
strlt_typ
Jul 20, 07 3:32 pm
i have a friend who was working for boeing as a draftsman while in school, although i never did ask him about exact $$$, i was told that they paid for (some of) tuition...and it was contractual
not architectural but i have another friend who worked for sears as a supervisor in the sales department and he was offered tuition money...
4arch
Jul 20, 07 3:40 pm
the federal government has loan reimbursement or "forgiveness" for some positions, if you don't mind working for the feds.
Danny Wills
Jul 20, 07 6:02 pm
every job i have pays for student loans. it's simple. i work, get a paycheck, and pay off my loans using said paycheck.
holz.box
Jul 20, 07 10:31 pm
though that's you paying off said loans, not the firm.
brian buchalski
Jul 21, 07 8:56 am
once upon a time i interviewed at a place that offered tuition re-imbursement but it wasn't a pure architecture firm. it was part of a large, corporate architecture/engineering company. i don't recall the name of the company, but i would have been working in the design department. unfortunately i was too young/inexperienced for the position and they didn't offer me a job so i never really got to find out the details of the tuition reimbursement.
BlueGoose
Jul 21, 07 10:13 am
the firm where I interned agreed to pay the cost of an MBA for one of that firm's young architects - he had to agree to work there for a min of 5-years (i think) afterwards. it worked for him - he's now their managing partner.
I think it's very, very rare for a design firm to pick up your student loans - what would be their motivation, unless you're an absolute, freaking genius being chased by every big firm around -- truth is, there's just too many of us around who are willing to work for modest wages -- 'til that changes, market forces won't support what you're suggesting.
evilplatypus
Jul 21, 07 11:16 am
my brother's full mba was paid for by his firm, but theyre an equities firm.
I've never heard of an architect getting school paid for. I've heard 50/50 that they reimburse for xams at best. But Ive thought if I owned a firm, I really wouldnt give a crap about your tuition either since you prob just waste my time on archinect all day.
aking
Jul 21, 07 12:02 pm
The way that it was explained to me is that an intern isn't really profitable to a firm until after a year. So if you agreed to say a 3 or 5 year arrangement it is actually profitable for the firm considering the turnover rate in our profession. Does this make sense or sound totally absurd?
Janosh
Jul 21, 07 1:11 pm
Wouldn't it be better to get paid and then pay the loans? I don't imagine that Architecture firms pay diminished taxes based on loan interest that they are paying for someone else.
digger
Jul 21, 07 6:26 pm
look ... let's get real here ... why would this ever make sense for a firm? where do you draw the liine? if a firm pays one recent grad's loan, is it then going to become responsible for everybody's education. come on - this makes no sense at all.
your education is YOUR responsibility. get over it.
most firms already feel they spend too much time training new staff because the schools do such a poor job preparing graduates for practice. now you want the firm to pay for your crappy degree too ... get a grip!
Katze
Jul 21, 07 7:33 pm
I feel fortunate that I work for an industry that values education and encourages growth. My company pays full tuition and many related expenses (e.g. application fees, entrance exams, books) for employees enrolled in accredited colleges, universities or trade schools. No ceiling on tuition or how many degrees and the program allows one to obtain a degree in an unrelated field. I have friends that have medical degrees and law degrees and they are software engineers. Heck, we even receive stock awards once we graduate. My employeer rocks.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 22, 07 9:17 am
...yeah my first response to this is, yeah it's called a job...but everyone else beat me to it.
aking
Jul 22, 07 8:01 pm
While paying for student loans with my own paycheck is such a novel idea, if I could find a firm to pay them instead I would much rather do that. The benefit to the firm is knowing that they have someone who is going to be with them for x amount of time. For any employer that is a great thing to have considering how flighty people can be plus the costs associated with hiring and training new folks.
Granted this type of situation is probably more suited to the larger firms but I just wanted to know if anyone had personally done this or knew someone who had. I know in places like Atlanta there is a great need for interns and sometimes they are willing to throw in something extra to get you hired. I would assume the salary would be below average in exchange for it but considering the interest I would be saving it seems like it would be worth it.
Thanks to those of you who given me productive feedback. And for those of you who didn't I don't understand why being an asswipe is so catchy. WTF is gained from it??
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 22, 07 8:18 pm
how about this; your unrealistic expectations are so galling that i think generally you're either dumb, naive, dumb, or somehow delusional to the point of needing meds.
now, having said that, you might want to look towards non-profits that actually GIVE back to the community through building efforts, you know like the way teachers are lured into inner cities with the promise of paying student loans, or how doctors are lured to inner cities or backwater Appalachian areas for pro bono services...
fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son...
aking
Jul 22, 07 8:29 pm
If my expectations are so unrealistic why have people posted to the contrary.
If you want to get middle school with it, I am far from fat, I don't drink, and if I was so stupid I suppose I would just pay back my student loans the way you probably did. Or perhaps you had mommy and daddy pay it all.
Is it so far fetched to believe that this happens. The going rate in my area for interns is about $40,000. If I were to take a $10,000 pay cut in exchange for student loan reimbursement over 4-5 years the firm wouldn't really be out anything and they would of had a steady employee. It's not rocket science and actually would seem to benefit both parties.
Erin Williams
Jul 22, 07 8:46 pm
"Is it so far fetched to believe that this happens."
Yes. It really is so far fetched. Most of us can barely pay rent. Notice how few real architectural responses you got that are directly relevant to your question. Dammson & tumbleweed's friend was being put through school in the first place, not getting his loans paid for him. Puddles' example was not strictly an architecture firm. Neither was Katze's or evilplatypus's. BlueGoose's example was somebody already at the firm getting paid for an MBA, so basically a firm fishing for a business partner. None of them were talking about loan re-pay for architectural education after the fact. Not one.
babs
Jul 22, 07 9:16 pm
aking - I personally believe your idea is very unrealistic. However, if you believe it to be viable, then you're asking the wrong people here. Nobody here's going to give you a job.
Put the idea to a potential employer - a firm that otherwise has an interest in hiring you. If they think it's a good idea, you're home free, albeit stepping into a life of indentured servitude.
However, keep in mind that while the firm may want to lock you in to staying for a while, they're not going to enter into an arrangement where they can't get rid of you if you don't do good work or their work declines. For that reason, they're probably not going to pay off your loan all at once - they'll probably just want to make the payments.
Katze
Jul 22, 07 9:38 pm
aking – as others have stated, I haven't heard of employers willing to take on employee debit (student loans or other debit). I work for a wonderful company and they pay for all of my school expenses while I am employed, but they are not willing to pay for what I already accumulated in student debt (which was a lot before I started the job). Additionally, I do not think any employer would be willing to make a contractual agreement with a new employee to pay their debt without knowing their work ethic/productivity. However, you mentioned that you would be willing to take a 10K pay cut in exchange for student loan reimbursement. So why not simply take the 40K job and use the 10K to reduce your student loan debt?Seems like you could pay off the debt relatively quickly if you annually pay off 10K, especially if you have consolidated the loans and you have a low interest rate. Just a thought.
aking
Jul 22, 07 11:05 pm
I guess this is something I just need to check into. It appears from the posts that this is highly unlikely to happen. Maybe the person that told me to look into this didn't know what they were talking about. I know it occurs in some professions as others have mentioned such as teaching but there is probably a higher demand for teachers not to mention a gov job.
I guess I was equating it somewhat to 401k employee matching contributions. I didn't know quite how it would/should work but was just trying to figure it out. Again thanks to those who were helpful. I apologize for getting a bit carried away but I just wasn't expecting some of the brash comments.
Katze
Jul 22, 07 11:40 pm
I wouldn't completely give up hope aking - as babs stated, aim your proposal at a new employer and see what you can work out; if you are a good negotiator, who knows, maybe you will get what you are looking for; just don't get your hopes up. I would like you to prove to us that we are wrong …and heck, it would instill my confidence that we still have caring employers out there :) Good luck.
babs
Jul 23, 07 6:46 am
katze - I think you go a little too far in your last post. A firm is not necessarily "not caring" if it doesn't embrace aking's proposal - as an "employer" myself, I'm more concerned with being fair to my existing staff and controlling my risk than I am with helping someone I don't know anything about pay off his student loan.
aking - you actually are better off if you can trade $10k in salary for your employer making $10k of your student loan payments. If you pay the loan from your checking account, you're paying with after-tax dollars - if your employer pays the loan directly, with salary you forgo, you're getting the loan paid with pre-tax dollars.
I still think this is unlikely in our industry - but perhaps you can negotiate something. Good luck
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 23, 07 11:36 am
well, my dad is a drunk and mom had to take on two jobs just to put food on the table and a roof over 4 kids heads.
i took on a ton of loans 50k plus for 5+ years, and guess what, i will pay those off myself. i won't ask my employer to pay my loans for me.
if i wanted that i would have become a doctor or teacher or senator...
dipstick.
aking
Jul 23, 07 4:03 pm
[beta]³ , why the hostility? I asked a simple question. That's it. You attacked me and then when I pointed it out your response is trying to justify it by pointing out your life history? I didn't ask for all that. I simply wanted to know if anyone had heard of this as an alternative to paying back loans. I don't know of anyone that would turn that down given the opportunity. I was simply searching for possibilities not jerkfaces.
eastcoastarch03
Jul 23, 07 4:08 pm
i know a guy that’s working for a fire protection company doing sprinkler calcs and drawings, and he gets his tuition paid for. they also pay him very well. but then again, it’s a full day of sprinklers, every week….
cadalyst
Jul 23, 07 5:29 pm
at my firm they will pay your ARE fee and Licensure Fee, but thats a long way off in my career path...
archie
Jul 23, 07 5:59 pm
Tax wise, if I as an employer wanted to pay off your school loans, it is treated just like income. So let's say you take a job for $30,000 a year plus $10,000 in paying off student loans. The IRS views it just like you made $40,000 a year, and you must pay all the regular taxes on it, the employer must pay their share of social security taxes on it, etc. SO the outcome is the same. Otherwise, everyone would avoid paying taxes by paying their mortgage or rent "as a perk"
Paying for job related education is different, your employer can offer to reimburse employees for that and it is not taxed, within certain guidelines. Let's say you are an architect and decided to take classes in dental hygenist school, but that is not part of your job requiprments, IF you or the company were audited, that coudl be viewed as taxable income. It's the difference between a company providing a uniform or shirt with the company nane (not taxed) for an employee, and regular clothing - (taxable)
babs
Jul 23, 07 6:30 pm
archie - you are absolutely right - my comment above about paying for the loan with pre-tax dollars was in error. sorry if I misled anybody!
Charisma124
Aug 13, 07 10:34 pm
Thanks archie for that great post, I am just about ready to sign up with a financial advisor who can draft me up my most beneficial tax scheme so that the money goes straight to my education. This way, when i'm bargaining, at least my ideas will be well grounded. Benefits for both.
kissy_face
Aug 14, 07 4:35 pm
I met more than a handful of people in who were in Business school and their employers were paying for it. I guess as designers in our profession it seems nuts but apparently its not such a foreign idea to others. In fact...the previous firm I worked for paid for an employee to go to grad school for urban design and now that person starting up a new studio.
aspenjustinegreene
Jun 14, 16 5:26 pm
Everyone says to get over it that you pay for your schooling, but I think a smarter way to go about it is to actually ask for solutions like this. Which you are doing. Sometimes thinking outside the box of "Getting over it" will save you a massive amount of money if you find somewhere.
Just a side thought :)
kjdt
Jun 14, 16 8:03 pm
About 25 years ago I worked for a now-defunct firm in NYC that contributed $1600 per year toward student loans, for employees who had been out of school for 2 to 10 years. (The reason they didn't contribute that in the first 2 years is because back then there was still a 2-year deferment option available for architecture grads who were enrolled in IDP but not yet licensed. It wasn't income-sensitive, and interest also didn't accrue in those 2 years. That particular deferment option no longer exists - unless you are still paying off loans that were taken out pre-1994 or something like that.) Even then $1600 per year wouldn't have put much of a dent in most people's loan payments. I've not encountered this as a benefit in any firm since.
I have heard that some firms will pay student loans if you agree to work for them for x amount of time. Is there anyone that is familiar with this?
Man, I'd love to find those firms...
i have a friend who was working for boeing as a draftsman while in school, although i never did ask him about exact $$$, i was told that they paid for (some of) tuition...and it was contractual
not architectural but i have another friend who worked for sears as a supervisor in the sales department and he was offered tuition money...
the federal government has loan reimbursement or "forgiveness" for some positions, if you don't mind working for the feds.
every job i have pays for student loans. it's simple. i work, get a paycheck, and pay off my loans using said paycheck.
though that's you paying off said loans, not the firm.
once upon a time i interviewed at a place that offered tuition re-imbursement but it wasn't a pure architecture firm. it was part of a large, corporate architecture/engineering company. i don't recall the name of the company, but i would have been working in the design department. unfortunately i was too young/inexperienced for the position and they didn't offer me a job so i never really got to find out the details of the tuition reimbursement.
the firm where I interned agreed to pay the cost of an MBA for one of that firm's young architects - he had to agree to work there for a min of 5-years (i think) afterwards. it worked for him - he's now their managing partner.
I think it's very, very rare for a design firm to pick up your student loans - what would be their motivation, unless you're an absolute, freaking genius being chased by every big firm around -- truth is, there's just too many of us around who are willing to work for modest wages -- 'til that changes, market forces won't support what you're suggesting.
my brother's full mba was paid for by his firm, but theyre an equities firm.
I've never heard of an architect getting school paid for. I've heard 50/50 that they reimburse for xams at best. But Ive thought if I owned a firm, I really wouldnt give a crap about your tuition either since you prob just waste my time on archinect all day.
The way that it was explained to me is that an intern isn't really profitable to a firm until after a year. So if you agreed to say a 3 or 5 year arrangement it is actually profitable for the firm considering the turnover rate in our profession. Does this make sense or sound totally absurd?
Wouldn't it be better to get paid and then pay the loans? I don't imagine that Architecture firms pay diminished taxes based on loan interest that they are paying for someone else.
look ... let's get real here ... why would this ever make sense for a firm? where do you draw the liine? if a firm pays one recent grad's loan, is it then going to become responsible for everybody's education. come on - this makes no sense at all.
your education is YOUR responsibility. get over it.
most firms already feel they spend too much time training new staff because the schools do such a poor job preparing graduates for practice. now you want the firm to pay for your crappy degree too ... get a grip!
I feel fortunate that I work for an industry that values education and encourages growth. My company pays full tuition and many related expenses (e.g. application fees, entrance exams, books) for employees enrolled in accredited colleges, universities or trade schools. No ceiling on tuition or how many degrees and the program allows one to obtain a degree in an unrelated field. I have friends that have medical degrees and law degrees and they are software engineers. Heck, we even receive stock awards once we graduate. My employeer rocks.
...yeah my first response to this is, yeah it's called a job...but everyone else beat me to it.
While paying for student loans with my own paycheck is such a novel idea, if I could find a firm to pay them instead I would much rather do that. The benefit to the firm is knowing that they have someone who is going to be with them for x amount of time. For any employer that is a great thing to have considering how flighty people can be plus the costs associated with hiring and training new folks.
Granted this type of situation is probably more suited to the larger firms but I just wanted to know if anyone had personally done this or knew someone who had. I know in places like Atlanta there is a great need for interns and sometimes they are willing to throw in something extra to get you hired. I would assume the salary would be below average in exchange for it but considering the interest I would be saving it seems like it would be worth it.
Thanks to those of you who given me productive feedback. And for those of you who didn't I don't understand why being an asswipe is so catchy. WTF is gained from it??
how about this; your unrealistic expectations are so galling that i think generally you're either dumb, naive, dumb, or somehow delusional to the point of needing meds.
now, having said that, you might want to look towards non-profits that actually GIVE back to the community through building efforts, you know like the way teachers are lured into inner cities with the promise of paying student loans, or how doctors are lured to inner cities or backwater Appalachian areas for pro bono services...
fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son...
If my expectations are so unrealistic why have people posted to the contrary.
If you want to get middle school with it, I am far from fat, I don't drink, and if I was so stupid I suppose I would just pay back my student loans the way you probably did. Or perhaps you had mommy and daddy pay it all.
Is it so far fetched to believe that this happens. The going rate in my area for interns is about $40,000. If I were to take a $10,000 pay cut in exchange for student loan reimbursement over 4-5 years the firm wouldn't really be out anything and they would of had a steady employee. It's not rocket science and actually would seem to benefit both parties.
Yes. It really is so far fetched. Most of us can barely pay rent. Notice how few real architectural responses you got that are directly relevant to your question. Dammson & tumbleweed's friend was being put through school in the first place, not getting his loans paid for him. Puddles' example was not strictly an architecture firm. Neither was Katze's or evilplatypus's. BlueGoose's example was somebody already at the firm getting paid for an MBA, so basically a firm fishing for a business partner. None of them were talking about loan re-pay for architectural education after the fact. Not one.
aking - I personally believe your idea is very unrealistic. However, if you believe it to be viable, then you're asking the wrong people here. Nobody here's going to give you a job.
Put the idea to a potential employer - a firm that otherwise has an interest in hiring you. If they think it's a good idea, you're home free, albeit stepping into a life of indentured servitude.
However, keep in mind that while the firm may want to lock you in to staying for a while, they're not going to enter into an arrangement where they can't get rid of you if you don't do good work or their work declines. For that reason, they're probably not going to pay off your loan all at once - they'll probably just want to make the payments.
aking – as others have stated, I haven't heard of employers willing to take on employee debit (student loans or other debit). I work for a wonderful company and they pay for all of my school expenses while I am employed, but they are not willing to pay for what I already accumulated in student debt (which was a lot before I started the job). Additionally, I do not think any employer would be willing to make a contractual agreement with a new employee to pay their debt without knowing their work ethic/productivity. However, you mentioned that you would be willing to take a 10K pay cut in exchange for student loan reimbursement. So why not simply take the 40K job and use the 10K to reduce your student loan debt?Seems like you could pay off the debt relatively quickly if you annually pay off 10K, especially if you have consolidated the loans and you have a low interest rate. Just a thought.
I guess this is something I just need to check into. It appears from the posts that this is highly unlikely to happen. Maybe the person that told me to look into this didn't know what they were talking about. I know it occurs in some professions as others have mentioned such as teaching but there is probably a higher demand for teachers not to mention a gov job.
I guess I was equating it somewhat to 401k employee matching contributions. I didn't know quite how it would/should work but was just trying to figure it out. Again thanks to those who were helpful. I apologize for getting a bit carried away but I just wasn't expecting some of the brash comments.
I wouldn't completely give up hope aking - as babs stated, aim your proposal at a new employer and see what you can work out; if you are a good negotiator, who knows, maybe you will get what you are looking for; just don't get your hopes up. I would like you to prove to us that we are wrong …and heck, it would instill my confidence that we still have caring employers out there :) Good luck.
katze - I think you go a little too far in your last post. A firm is not necessarily "not caring" if it doesn't embrace aking's proposal - as an "employer" myself, I'm more concerned with being fair to my existing staff and controlling my risk than I am with helping someone I don't know anything about pay off his student loan.
aking - you actually are better off if you can trade $10k in salary for your employer making $10k of your student loan payments. If you pay the loan from your checking account, you're paying with after-tax dollars - if your employer pays the loan directly, with salary you forgo, you're getting the loan paid with pre-tax dollars.
I still think this is unlikely in our industry - but perhaps you can negotiate something. Good luck
well, my dad is a drunk and mom had to take on two jobs just to put food on the table and a roof over 4 kids heads.
i took on a ton of loans 50k plus for 5+ years, and guess what, i will pay those off myself. i won't ask my employer to pay my loans for me.
if i wanted that i would have become a doctor or teacher or senator...
dipstick.
[beta]³ , why the hostility? I asked a simple question. That's it. You attacked me and then when I pointed it out your response is trying to justify it by pointing out your life history? I didn't ask for all that. I simply wanted to know if anyone had heard of this as an alternative to paying back loans. I don't know of anyone that would turn that down given the opportunity. I was simply searching for possibilities not jerkfaces.
i know a guy that’s working for a fire protection company doing sprinkler calcs and drawings, and he gets his tuition paid for. they also pay him very well. but then again, it’s a full day of sprinklers, every week….
at my firm they will pay your ARE fee and Licensure Fee, but thats a long way off in my career path...
Tax wise, if I as an employer wanted to pay off your school loans, it is treated just like income. So let's say you take a job for $30,000 a year plus $10,000 in paying off student loans. The IRS views it just like you made $40,000 a year, and you must pay all the regular taxes on it, the employer must pay their share of social security taxes on it, etc. SO the outcome is the same. Otherwise, everyone would avoid paying taxes by paying their mortgage or rent "as a perk"
Paying for job related education is different, your employer can offer to reimburse employees for that and it is not taxed, within certain guidelines. Let's say you are an architect and decided to take classes in dental hygenist school, but that is not part of your job requiprments, IF you or the company were audited, that coudl be viewed as taxable income. It's the difference between a company providing a uniform or shirt with the company nane (not taxed) for an employee, and regular clothing - (taxable)
archie - you are absolutely right - my comment above about paying for the loan with pre-tax dollars was in error. sorry if I misled anybody!
Thanks archie for that great post, I am just about ready to sign up with a financial advisor who can draft me up my most beneficial tax scheme so that the money goes straight to my education. This way, when i'm bargaining, at least my ideas will be well grounded. Benefits for both.
I met more than a handful of people in who were in Business school and their employers were paying for it. I guess as designers in our profession it seems nuts but apparently its not such a foreign idea to others. In fact...the previous firm I worked for paid for an employee to go to grad school for urban design and now that person starting up a new studio.
Everyone says to get over it that you pay for your schooling, but I think a smarter way to go about it is to actually ask for solutions like this. Which you are doing. Sometimes thinking outside the box of "Getting over it" will save you a massive amount of money if you find somewhere.
Just a side thought :)
About 25 years ago I worked for a now-defunct firm in NYC that contributed $1600 per year toward student loans, for employees who had been out of school for 2 to 10 years. (The reason they didn't contribute that in the first 2 years is because back then there was still a 2-year deferment option available for architecture grads who were enrolled in IDP but not yet licensed. It wasn't income-sensitive, and interest also didn't accrue in those 2 years. That particular deferment option no longer exists - unless you are still paying off loans that were taken out pre-1994 or something like that.) Even then $1600 per year wouldn't have put much of a dent in most people's loan payments. I've not encountered this as a benefit in any firm since.