(first question, is there a way to search my previous threads? I had posted a few a while ago and wanted to check on the most recent responses, etc)
Okay, so I'm starting a portfolio from scratch for M.Arch school. I don't know exactly where I'm applying yet, but not having an architecture background, I've worked out exactly what it is that I want to and need to showcase in this portfolio in order for it to be competitive.
My background is the music industry, and I have 10+ years on the piano and violin, and one poster here gave me the idea
of merging the two (music and arch) somehow into my portfolio. Recently, I've been doing more reading up on it... there is a LOT of information out there but some of it is just over my head. The most detailed work I've found is by Dmitri Tymoczko who wrote "The Geometry of Music" and created a computer program called ChordGeometries.
I guess I just don't know enough about advanced music theory and mathematics to get a real handle on it, but it looks like he takes chords, scales, and their relation together (and their frequencies?) and then (________) <- does something to them that I don't understand, and then diagrams them in a 3D space.
What I want to do is write a brief paper about the relationship of music and architecture, "diagram" a musical piece, and then somehow turn that diagram into a liveable structure. But I'm just feeling in the dark here. Is this one of those things that is too new to pin down to one specific method?
Has anyone done this before? I'm not sure where to start.
bob/bob
Jul 21, 12 6:39 pm
I think that this approach might be a mistake. As you are untrained, you are unlikely to produce a competent structure or use the iterative design process that you will be taught in school. I was accepted into most of the programs I applied to with a portfolio that only hinted at an interest in architecture.
We have a couple of musicians in our program, who are doing well. Don't know what they had in their portfolios, though.
Also, I am a student, my opinion is based on hearsay - you should ask someone who is directly involved with admissions at a school you would like to attend.
Thecyclist
Jul 21, 12 6:49 pm
I can't really recall my exact thoughts, but a little while ago (a few months) I was thinking, and I realized many parallels can be drawn between writing a piece of music and designing a building. How this can help you...well, as bob said, some of those students had portfolios that only briefly mentioned architecture, so perhaps you don't have to take such a direct approach with the whole "music and how it translates into a 3d design."
Maybe if you just show through your portfolio you have an appreciation for positive or stimulating mediums, they will be sold you can translate that appreciation into architectural designs.
metal
Jul 21, 12 7:20 pm
This is an interesting but difficult topic, because music is so immaterial.
You can look into how music has used technological stochastic methods.
Eno, Reich, Glass, and Xenakis come to mind
If you make your project about visualizing musical structures it will help your application. And If you're up for a challenge you can also go beyond static diagrams and develop simulations with Tymoczko's program.
citizen
Jul 21, 12 7:46 pm
"Turning music into architecture" is a metaphor, not a real physical process. It's not like turning bread into toast. So go easy on yourself, and keep your portfolio simple to show basic skills and competencies.
paintitblack
Jul 21, 12 7:47 pm
Metal - I was actually just reading on Xenakis today and some of his ideas helped me realize that the connection between music and architecture doesn't necessarily have to be on such a detailed, technical scale. I know the two can be related in a very basic sense, for instance the vocabulary used to describe the two (tone, rhythm, scale, composition, texture, mood, etc). Have you used Tymoczko's program? I ordered his book and waiting on it to arrive.
Thecyclist & Bob - Agree that maybe going in too deeply on a subject that I don't have any formal education on might only highlight the flaws rather than the potential. I should probably take it down a few notches. But I'm the type of person that wants to FULLY understand something before diving in, and I guess that's how I ended up with all these books on advanced music theory, frequencies, orthogonal coordinates, calculus... lol. Time to strip down and get back to the basics.
I guess I just want the admissions board to know that I am capable of thinking outside the box, thinking abstractly, making connections that aren't otherwise obvious. If I'm being real, my undergraduate record leaves a LOT to be desired - not because I was incapable, but because I was depressed and going through some horrific things in undergrad and really didn't reach my full potential. I feel like I have a lot I need to prove in order for them to look beyond that, but if the outcome is going to be a mess, then I should probably reevaluate.
Thanks for the responses so far -- always gives me some good food for thought, that's why I like this place! Any other comments/suggestions welcome.
will galloway
Jul 21, 12 8:03 pm
i would say it is more like making coffee into toast.
steven holl has tried a few times to use music as metaphor in his design process. the result is mixed if nice enough to look at...
stretto house.
daeyang gallery
lawrence halprin advocated making scores for landscapes and i guess it works, but nowadays it seems like music and architecture (on the edge anyway) are about something beyond structure...in which case the connection is even harder to grasp.
metal
Jul 21, 12 8:39 pm
paintitblack,
The metaphor route is easier, especially when discussing music in a traditional sense.
The technology bit, is just another way of examining the compositional relationships that can be made between architecture and music when people use software. Xenakis was a precursor to this, mainly due to his interest in the mathematics of music.
A few years ago a friend of a friend used Tymoczko's program for a project, what we liked about it was that it wasn't so metaphorical, it was just about composition. However, this project wasn't a building. i think it's ok if you look it at that way.
paintitblack
Jul 21, 12 9:08 pm
Wow, Will.... thanks for those pictures. Those are perspectives that wouldn't have even occurred to me. I guess it really is open for interpretation.
I am all for going the metaphorical route, I think the mathematical route appealed to me because there's at least SOME potential for consistency in the translation between the two (or there might be in the future). I know both music and architecture are art and shouldn't have to be TOO tied down to mathematical rules (even though some must exist with both), but I like the idea of there being that option.
"seems like music and architecture (on the edge anyway) are about something beyond structure...in which case the connection is even harder to grasp."
Agreed. I don't think there is a direct link, I think there are overlapping similarities, but not one ---> turns into the other. I'm almost starting to think that maybe synesthesia comes into play here.
paintitblack
Jul 21, 12 9:10 pm
Metal - I've seen some graphics from the ChordGeometries programs and I realize that you don't get a structure, (I know it's definitely not that cut and dry!), you get spheres on different coordinates in a 3D space. I guess I'll have to play around with it myself to see exactly what it all means to me.
Sti.1994
Jan 29, 18 12:52 pm
I'm currently trying to figure out this concept for myself. The relationship between music and architecture and how they can form a deeper meaning to design is what I'm trying to achieve. It's such an abstract idea to take music which could be described as 2D and turn it into a 3D structure and space. I too, am struggling to understand the technical bits and computer graphic programs. There's nothing worse than designing a building that literally looks like a guitar and saying it's an elegant way of merging the two arts. I found this article that has the architect Federico Babina illustrate how music can inspire architecture. https://www.archdaily.com/5169... Some are a little two literal for me, but I think it's a cute and simple way to show music and architecture as one.
wurdan freo
Jan 29, 18 2:20 pm
music like architecture is as simple or as complex as you want to make it.
Both rely on structure and rhythm.
Both have traditional and modern vernacular and everything in between.
Both rely on the expertise of the creator and executor (architect/song writer, carpenter/guitarist, foundations/drums,) etc.
Basic structures for creation also exist. Three chord progression, twelve bar blues, verse/chorus - conventional framing, post n beam, reinforced concrete, etc.
(first question, is there a way to search my previous threads? I had posted a few a while ago and wanted to check on the most recent responses, etc)
Okay, so I'm starting a portfolio from scratch for M.Arch school. I don't know exactly where I'm applying yet, but not having an architecture background, I've worked out exactly what it is that I want to and need to showcase in this portfolio in order for it to be competitive.
My background is the music industry, and I have 10+ years on the piano and violin, and one poster here gave me the idea
of merging the two (music and arch) somehow into my portfolio. Recently, I've been doing more reading up on it... there is a LOT of information out there but some of it is just over my head. The most detailed work I've found is by Dmitri Tymoczko who wrote "The Geometry of Music" and created a computer program called ChordGeometries.
I guess I just don't know enough about advanced music theory and mathematics to get a real handle on it, but it looks like he takes chords, scales, and their relation together (and their frequencies?) and then (________) <- does something to them that I don't understand, and then diagrams them in a 3D space.
What I want to do is write a brief paper about the relationship of music and architecture, "diagram" a musical piece, and then somehow turn that diagram into a liveable structure. But I'm just feeling in the dark here. Is this one of those things that is too new to pin down to one specific method?
Has anyone done this before? I'm not sure where to start.
I think that this approach might be a mistake. As you are untrained, you are unlikely to produce a competent structure or use the iterative design process that you will be taught in school. I was accepted into most of the programs I applied to with a portfolio that only hinted at an interest in architecture.
We have a couple of musicians in our program, who are doing well. Don't know what they had in their portfolios, though.
Also, I am a student, my opinion is based on hearsay - you should ask someone who is directly involved with admissions at a school you would like to attend.
I can't really recall my exact thoughts, but a little while ago (a few months) I was thinking, and I realized many parallels can be drawn between writing a piece of music and designing a building. How this can help you...well, as bob said, some of those students had portfolios that only briefly mentioned architecture, so perhaps you don't have to take such a direct approach with the whole "music and how it translates into a 3d design."
Maybe if you just show through your portfolio you have an appreciation for positive or stimulating mediums, they will be sold you can translate that appreciation into architectural designs.
This is an interesting but difficult topic, because music is so immaterial.
You can look into how music has used technological stochastic methods.
Eno, Reich, Glass, and Xenakis come to mind
If you make your project about visualizing musical structures it will help your application. And If you're up for a challenge you can also go beyond static diagrams and develop simulations with Tymoczko's program.
"Turning music into architecture" is a metaphor, not a real physical process. It's not like turning bread into toast. So go easy on yourself, and keep your portfolio simple to show basic skills and competencies.
Metal - I was actually just reading on Xenakis today and some of his ideas helped me realize that the connection between music and architecture doesn't necessarily have to be on such a detailed, technical scale. I know the two can be related in a very basic sense, for instance the vocabulary used to describe the two (tone, rhythm, scale, composition, texture, mood, etc). Have you used Tymoczko's program? I ordered his book and waiting on it to arrive.
Thecyclist & Bob - Agree that maybe going in too deeply on a subject that I don't have any formal education on might only highlight the flaws rather than the potential. I should probably take it down a few notches. But I'm the type of person that wants to FULLY understand something before diving in, and I guess that's how I ended up with all these books on advanced music theory, frequencies, orthogonal coordinates, calculus... lol. Time to strip down and get back to the basics.
I guess I just want the admissions board to know that I am capable of thinking outside the box, thinking abstractly, making connections that aren't otherwise obvious. If I'm being real, my undergraduate record leaves a LOT to be desired - not because I was incapable, but because I was depressed and going through some horrific things in undergrad and really didn't reach my full potential. I feel like I have a lot I need to prove in order for them to look beyond that, but if the outcome is going to be a mess, then I should probably reevaluate.
Thanks for the responses so far -- always gives me some good food for thought, that's why I like this place! Any other comments/suggestions welcome.
i would say it is more like making coffee into toast.
steven holl has tried a few times to use music as metaphor in his design process. the result is mixed if nice enough to look at...
stretto house.
daeyang gallery
lawrence halprin advocated making scores for landscapes and i guess it works, but nowadays it seems like music and architecture (on the edge anyway) are about something beyond structure...in which case the connection is even harder to grasp.
paintitblack,
The metaphor route is easier, especially when discussing music in a traditional sense.
The technology bit, is just another way of examining the compositional relationships that can be made between architecture and music when people use software. Xenakis was a precursor to this, mainly due to his interest in the mathematics of music.
A few years ago a friend of a friend used Tymoczko's program for a project, what we liked about it was that it wasn't so metaphorical, it was just about composition. However, this project wasn't a building. i think it's ok if you look it at that way.
Wow, Will.... thanks for those pictures. Those are perspectives that wouldn't have even occurred to me. I guess it really is open for interpretation.
I am all for going the metaphorical route, I think the mathematical route appealed to me because there's at least SOME potential for consistency in the translation between the two (or there might be in the future). I know both music and architecture are art and shouldn't have to be TOO tied down to mathematical rules (even though some must exist with both), but I like the idea of there being that option.
"seems like music and architecture (on the edge anyway) are about something beyond structure...in which case the connection is even harder to grasp."
Agreed. I don't think there is a direct link, I think there are overlapping similarities, but not one ---> turns into the other. I'm almost starting to think that maybe synesthesia comes into play here.
Metal - I've seen some graphics from the ChordGeometries programs and I realize that you don't get a structure, (I know it's definitely not that cut and dry!), you get spheres on different coordinates in a 3D space. I guess I'll have to play around with it myself to see exactly what it all means to me.
I'm currently trying to figure out this concept for myself. The relationship between music and architecture and how they can form a deeper meaning to design is what I'm trying to achieve. It's such an abstract idea to take music which could be described as 2D and turn it into a 3D structure and space. I too, am struggling to understand the technical bits and computer graphic programs. There's nothing worse than designing a building that literally looks like a guitar and saying it's an elegant way of merging the two arts. I found this article that has the architect Federico Babina illustrate how music can inspire architecture. https://www.archdaily.com/5169... Some are a little two literal for me, but I think it's a cute and simple way to show music and architecture as one.
music like architecture is as simple or as complex as you want to make it.
Both rely on structure and rhythm.
Both have traditional and modern vernacular and everything in between.
Both rely on the expertise of the creator and executor (architect/song writer, carpenter/guitarist, foundations/drums,) etc.
Basic structures for creation also exist. Three chord progression, twelve bar blues, verse/chorus - conventional framing, post n beam, reinforced concrete, etc.
Rest is up to you.