Hi,
what's up with the reinforced grass paving for parking?
I am looking to push this and I would like to have some comments, more infos or pictures of projects / case studies.
If a parking when unused looks like a park...first step to save the planet....less greenhouse effects, better stormwater management, less erosion...weehou!
any infos on this?
anti
Oct 17, 06 11:31 pm
This is everywhere in china. We think its a big 'green' deal here in the states when we get to use it on a project, but its pretty much standard there. Doesn't quite look like a park - hexagon pavers with grass in the middle - but its better than asphalt. I have pictures somewhere if you need some.
anti
Oct 17, 06 11:31 pm
Grasscrete is also a commercial product here in the US, google it.
punky_brewster
Oct 17, 06 11:54 pm
grasspave, one of the best. check out the case studies for projects in your area.
not good for constant/day-to-day use, it browns in drive areas, but it doesn't die. and for occasional/event/surge parking it's perfect.
yeah, guess the grass get brownish where there is a lot of traffic...
maybe at these places use cmu-style block or cellular concrete blocs where some strips of grass can still appear?
Green parking is a great trick to overcome and exceed urban requirements (like in Shanghai, most of new site need to have 30% of green coverage...good thing for sure but wich is always hard to achieve with crazy dense FAR and GFA and parking space)
Basically no impedence to water, and the grass won't get crushed either.
treekiller
Oct 18, 06 11:39 am
the load limits of any pervious paving are set by how well you can compact the subsoil and maintain drainage. so pervy concrete has similar issues as grasscrete, as grasspave.
ask your freindly local LA for advice on how serviceable these ideas are.
if you include the storm drainage pipes in the cost of paving the parking lot, pervious paving is often the same price.
bermuda will grow in any "soil", but goes dormant and smears with not much foot traffic in cool weather. otherwise you could lay teh grasscells on deeps rock, wash a little fines and organics onto the grass stolons and irrigate.
this is very intersting topic, since bcak in the old days of one car separated garages, driveways were two strips of concrete pavers. (tires wre very narrow)
i think that besides needing low traffic, you also can't use grasscells on much of a slope.
i wonder what statisitcal increase in traffic bearing you gain by using cells insead of only turf.
e909
Oct 23, 06 5:17 am
most cites won't let you park on gravel or grass. you have ot pave (asphalt or concrete). this originated with the "no parking pickup trucks in view" folks.
e909
Oct 23, 06 5:20 am
on the otherhand, i've seen a lot of drippy auto fluids on concrete.
on the other otherhand, whether these fluids drip into grass or wash off paving into stormdrains, they aren't treated.
Gotan
Oct 23, 06 5:24 am
Pervious parking rocks!
Take that wall-mart and other power centers!
treekiller
Oct 23, 06 10:30 am
drippy auto fluids exist on any parking surface- so would you rather they get washed into the storm drain and out onto the river/ocean to create that rainbow sheen we all love? or to perculate down through soil where they can be mitigated by the microbes before they nasty gunk gets to the ground water?
Most drippy auto fluids tend to be neutralized in the top 12" or so of soil. exceptions include large quantities found at gas stations, garages and wrecking yards. various treatment wetlands can breakdown/capture the nasty hydrocarbons from these other sources.
Get a good landscape architect or environmental engineering firm.
cf
Oct 23, 06 11:18 am
I'll bet the LEED people will get involved in this area.
"NO, you people can not use this type of paving if you want a gold certificate from us because this paving requires too much water.
I am assuming you want grass pavers for color. Use colored paving.
Although, Buffalo Grass is drought resistant but not sure about ability to withstand traffic.
Look for Buffalo Grass to be the grass of choice in the western US in the next 10 years as drought conditions and water rationing increase.
Janosh
Oct 23, 06 1:16 pm
We used grass pavers on a project in Pasadena... last week on a site visit one of our guys saw a Pasadena cop issuing a ticket to a car parked on said grass pavers for parking on a lawn. Can't wait to hear how that one turns out, as the city approved the pavers as a parking surface.
perturbanist
Oct 27, 06 7:39 pm
you might as well call it reinforced 'mud' paving...
le bossman
Oct 28, 06 2:07 pm
reinforced grass? what do they put little rebars in the grass or something?
Michael (Yu-Hsiang) Huang
Nov 28, 06 12:27 am
I'd be interested to watch the mud wrestling that happens in that parking lot. let me know when you are able to push this through will you.
whistler
Jul 23, 20 6:54 pm
Janosh's example above is priceless.
Regardless I used a buried hard PVC tray product on my own house a few years back and it works great. Basically marked out a double stall area on my front lawn for my kids to park on without taking away from the landscape / garden appearance I wanted in the front of the house. Neighbours all paved the shit out of their front yards for extra parking and totally ruined the street scape. First year took some effort to manage the turf ( normal watering / weeding and fertilizer) but since then it's been awesome ( can't tell it from the other parts of the lawn. We live in a snowy climate so coming out of winter I typically don't park on it until the lawn and soil has dried out but otherwise it good all year round except for a few weeks in the fall and spring when it's a bit too saturated.
apscoradiales
Jul 25, 20 10:51 am
Sometimes called "environmental paving"
Used in Europe a lot, less so in North America - we waste a lot!
Good to the extent that you hardly ever then need catch basins since the water just dribbles though the pavers and disappears to china.
Peter Normand
Jul 27, 20 2:06 pm
In the US the Grass pave is not acceptable for accessible parking spaces, the aisles or accessible paths from parking or other site amenities because the grass is considered to be a carpet and the carpet pile heights of grass is often more than 1/2". The gaps in some of the grass pave systems are also wider than 1/2". But the system is a good choice if you are up against permeable versus impermeable site zoning restrictions/ requirements.
I think these systems are also useful to mitigate erosion and are helpful in locations were grass is desired but heavy foot traffic compress the soil and kills the grass, places like gates or paths that cut across a grassy area.
Hi,
what's up with the reinforced grass paving for parking?
I am looking to push this and I would like to have some comments, more infos or pictures of projects / case studies.
If a parking when unused looks like a park...first step to save the planet....less greenhouse effects, better stormwater management, less erosion...weehou!
any infos on this?
This is everywhere in china. We think its a big 'green' deal here in the states when we get to use it on a project, but its pretty much standard there. Doesn't quite look like a park - hexagon pavers with grass in the middle - but its better than asphalt. I have pictures somewhere if you need some.
Grasscrete is also a commercial product here in the US, google it.
grasspave, one of the best. check out the case studies for projects in your area.
not good for constant/day-to-day use, it browns in drive areas, but it doesn't die. and for occasional/event/surge parking it's perfect.
http://www.invisiblestructures.com/GP2/grasspave.htm
also: for firelanes.
Not so good for: any place that gets heavy truck traffic.
Not true.
Used in Europe a lot for truck parking areas and where other heavy duty traffic flows.
American and Canadian paving companies don't know how to do it properly - use improper gravel and depth of gravel.
Thanks guys,
found this as well...
http://www.deyuan-afforest.com.cn/doce/works.htm
yeah, guess the grass get brownish where there is a lot of traffic...
maybe at these places use cmu-style block or cellular concrete blocs where some strips of grass can still appear?
http://www.grasscrete.com/docs/case-studies/paving-casestudies.asp?category=2&order=3
Green parking is a great trick to overcome and exceed urban requirements (like in Shanghai, most of new site need to have 30% of green coverage...good thing for sure but wich is always hard to achieve with crazy dense FAR and GFA and parking space)
I've seen this type of thing used before:
http://www.netlon.com/_turfsystems/prod-netpave25.htm
Basically no impedence to water, and the grass won't get crushed either.
the load limits of any pervious paving are set by how well you can compact the subsoil and maintain drainage. so pervy concrete has similar issues as grasscrete, as grasspave.
ask your freindly local LA for advice on how serviceable these ideas are.
if you include the storm drainage pipes in the cost of paving the parking lot, pervious paving is often the same price.
:-)
bermuda will grow in any "soil", but goes dormant and smears with not much foot traffic in cool weather. otherwise you could lay teh grasscells on deeps rock, wash a little fines and organics onto the grass stolons and irrigate.
this is very intersting topic, since bcak in the old days of one car separated garages, driveways were two strips of concrete pavers. (tires wre very narrow)
i think that besides needing low traffic, you also can't use grasscells on much of a slope.
i wonder what statisitcal increase in traffic bearing you gain by using cells insead of only turf.
most cites won't let you park on gravel or grass. you have ot pave (asphalt or concrete). this originated with the "no parking pickup trucks in view" folks.
on the otherhand, i've seen a lot of drippy auto fluids on concrete.
on the other otherhand, whether these fluids drip into grass or wash off paving into stormdrains, they aren't treated.
Pervious parking rocks!
Take that wall-mart and other power centers!
drippy auto fluids exist on any parking surface- so would you rather they get washed into the storm drain and out onto the river/ocean to create that rainbow sheen we all love? or to perculate down through soil where they can be mitigated by the microbes before they nasty gunk gets to the ground water?
Most drippy auto fluids tend to be neutralized in the top 12" or so of soil. exceptions include large quantities found at gas stations, garages and wrecking yards. various treatment wetlands can breakdown/capture the nasty hydrocarbons from these other sources.
Get a good landscape architect or environmental engineering firm.
I'll bet the LEED people will get involved in this area.
"NO, you people can not use this type of paving if you want a gold certificate from us because this paving requires too much water.
I am assuming you want grass pavers for color. Use colored paving.
Although, Buffalo Grass is drought resistant but not sure about ability to withstand traffic.
Look for Buffalo Grass to be the grass of choice in the western US in the next 10 years as drought conditions and water rationing increase.
We used grass pavers on a project in Pasadena... last week on a site visit one of our guys saw a Pasadena cop issuing a ticket to a car parked on said grass pavers for parking on a lawn. Can't wait to hear how that one turns out, as the city approved the pavers as a parking surface.
you might as well call it reinforced 'mud' paving...
reinforced grass? what do they put little rebars in the grass or something?
I'd be interested to watch the mud wrestling that happens in that parking lot. let me know when you are able to push this through will you.
Janosh's example above is priceless.
Regardless I used a buried hard PVC tray product on my own house a few years back and it works great. Basically marked out a double stall area on my front lawn for my kids to park on without taking away from the landscape / garden appearance I wanted in the front of the house. Neighbours all paved the shit out of their front yards for extra parking and totally ruined the street scape. First year took some effort to manage the turf ( normal watering / weeding and fertilizer) but since then it's been awesome ( can't tell it from the other parts of the lawn. We live in a snowy climate so coming out of winter I typically don't park on it until the lawn and soil has dried out but otherwise it good all year round except for a few weeks in the fall and spring when it's a bit too saturated.
Sometimes called "environmental paving"
Used in Europe a lot, less so in North America - we waste a lot!
Good to the extent that you hardly ever then need catch basins since the water just dribbles though the pavers and disappears to china.
In the US the Grass pave is not acceptable for accessible parking spaces, the aisles or accessible paths from parking or other site amenities because the grass is considered to be a carpet and the carpet pile heights of grass is often more than 1/2". The gaps in some of the grass pave systems are also wider than 1/2". But the system is a good choice if you are up against permeable versus impermeable site zoning restrictions/ requirements.
I think these systems are also useful to mitigate erosion and are helpful in locations were grass is desired but heavy foot traffic compress the soil and kills the grass, places like gates or paths that cut across a grassy area.
Over and OUT
Peter N