Has anyone experienced firms that cycle through new employees*?
I recently worked at a small firm consisting of the principal, myself, and another intern. I worked there for a year and a few months before being let go due to my "slipping performance". Initially, I was hired part-time for peanuts with the idea that after 3-6 months I would be brought up with better pay and benefits. Part-time status turned to full-time (40 hours) after a week.
For the first six months I worked very hard. I frequently worked over forty hours a week; even coming in on weekends if necessary. There was never any overtime pay. I was given a slight raise, but no benefits. Soon after, another intern was brought on board. They too began on a part-time basis, but unlike myself, did not begin working full time for about a month. This person had a B.S. Arch and started out as a strong employee. Within a few months however, this employee began calling out sick. It was an almost frequent occasion as they would conveniently feel sick around deadlines. In the short time they were there, they managed to miss more than a week's worth of days, often left early due to feeling ill, and rendered themselves useless for a couple days when they accidentally disabled their computer. Needless to say, this person was not the easiest to work with.
At my year review, I was informed my main issues were tardiness (I admit I came frequently came in 5-10 minutes late) and that my performance had dropped in recent months. Since it was small, the principal was out of the office, on average, 3 days a week for meetings, site visits, etc. I was required to work independently; often having to create relevant work for myself as the principal could not always inform me of specific tasks. This worked sometimes, specifically when it came to producing objective work - construction documents, schedules, spec. sheets, etc. Other times, when given an open ended design problem, or drawings to do with no given parameters, I tended to take more time and produced little by the end of the day, often due to lack of direction. Despite the negative comments, the overall review was good. I was praised for my reliability, composure during pressure situations, and ability to consistently meet deadlines. At the end of the review, I was given a slight raise and the conversation briefly touched on the placement of benefits. I left the review feeling positive that I was given constructive feedback and that my career was finally getting started.
Two months later, I was no longer tardy, still working as hard as I could. However, I was still failing to design as efficiently independently as my boss expected of me. And so, on the basis of my declining performance, I was released from the firm. My now former employer citing that we should "take a break". The principal assured I was a smart, hard working, and "one of the most reliable people to ever work" for them. They even offered career counseling and aid in my future job search. I was gracious and calm in my exit. Deep down, I was bewildered, confused, upset, and angry. Was my performance THAT bad? If so, then why was the other employee not let go too?
I have since come to see this as a blessing in disguise. I did learn a lot in my time there, as the principal took time to teach me about construction and architecture as a business. However, I am very pleased to no longer be working with that coworker and feel I have a matured and refreshed outlook on my career.
Recently though, through the power of Facebook, I found that a person I have a mutual friend with, is now *employed* at my former firm. This person is two years younger than myself and with less experience. It is important to note that when I came in for my interview, there was another intern there. I was excited to see that I would be working with young, growing office. However, when I began working, I was told that the former intern was let go.
Does this firm squeeze the juice out of young employees* and then hire new ones? Is this common among architecture firms/small businesses? Excuse my naivete, but I hope this practice is not common. If so, all I can do is hope that I don't work for another firm like it.
* I note employee because I have recently discovered that I was a misclassified 1099 when I filed for unemployment. I'm sure the others who work there are also misclassified. Again, please excuse my naivete, but I thought it was common for businesses to pay employees on 1099 until they became "full-time" employees. I am unsure as to what will happen now. Last I spoke with the unemployment office, they said they were investigating the situation. It seems like the government is on my side. Anyone have experience with this?
Thanks for taking the time to read this long rant. Archinect has always been a supportive and constructive community for me.
pdigi
Feb 29, 12 3:23 pm
@DMS-USA Your advice is great for anyone who wants to be an independent contractor. However, as toasteroven said, there are a lot of a young, inexperienced people entering the profession who are being taken advantage of. I have learned the hard way. I actually believed that being a 1099 was an option for employers. It is, just an illegal and unethical option if the person is actually an employee.
pdigi
Feb 29, 12 6:09 pm
I actually do need some advice though.
As previously stated, I have emailed my previous employer requesting the proper tax form three times with no response. I KNOW I should receive a 1099-MISC because I received one last year, never had any taxes deducted, and also never filled out a W-2 when I first started.
I filed FORM SS-8 to get a determination on my misclassification, but I received a letter from the IRS stating I was missing information. The IRS noted that I needed to attach of copy of my 1099-MISC. However, I have not received that yet. I was told that when filing my taxes, I should attach FORM 8919 along with Schedule C to recalculate what I must pay.
I have kept a pretty accurate record of my wages. I am not 100% sure they are accurate as there were stretches of time I was late recording. Mind you, this was just a personal record of finances. From what I gather, I can still file my taxes with my personal records of my wages.
Can I still file FORM 8919 along with Schedule C, knowing that my determination is still up in the air?
Suppose I never get my 1099, does that mean I can never officially get a determination of being misclassified?
I am seeking advice from accountants and have talked to the IRS. However, a lot of people do not seem to have much knowledge on misclassification and what to do. I had to speak with four different IRS agents before one was able to give me an answer my research already gave me. Two accountants I've spoken with aren't sure about the issue either. I will continue to do research and ask some accountants, but hopefully someone on this forum will give me some insight.
Thanks.
DMS-USA
Feb 29, 12 9:06 pm
Don't worry about the 1099. Just claim the income in the 'Other Income' list on your Schedule C, and list it as payment for drafting services with the guy's name included. If you ever get questioned, you'll be able to answer the IRS agent truthfully under oath that you were paid 'X' and claimed 'X'. They know if you're trying to deceive them. Besides, it'd be simple enough for them to go knock on his door and make him cough up his records. You could go through the form 8919 exercise if you want, but I wouldn't bother. Just get used to paying 100% FICA from here on out. I know, it's total theft... but hey, it beats spending your life in the graybar hotel. Maybe Granny will send you a thank-you note for paying for her electric scooter some day (don't hold breath). Forget that money (FICA) ever belonged to you. I'm guessing you don't make enough yet to actually pay any income tax, but FICA will always take a 16% bite of your AGI (If you work as an indy).
By the way... I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just suggesting how I'd handle it myself. I had two customers who failed to 1099 me in 2010 (guys I know - friends! They're just flakey about that crap, is all). The above is exactly what I did. It happens all the time - particularly for small amounts. You're considered an upright citizen by .GOV as long as you report truthfully. If you like, get some tax advice from someone you trust, or a referral to a friend's tax preparer. I don't have an accountant.... I do all my books and taxes myself (do taxes with TurboTax Home & Business - just like Timmy Geithner! <g>).
Forget about trying to 'nail this guy' and all that crap. Just chalk it up as a learning experience and move on. Next time, you'll know to work out all these issues right away in the interview, and the whole time will be showing your potential employer what a sharp cookie and savy operator you are. Nothing speaks professionalism like a working knowledge of your trade and it's customs. You're smarter, now.
Being bitter and trying to wage justice for society is a complete waste of time for a young production draftsman. Nobody will care and you'll just grind your bright, shining soul into dust. Spend your time trying to find a situation that suits you, instead. I've worked for over a dozen different outfits, and with the exception of ONE, they've all been great people to work with and would be happy to take my call anytime.
Be a tiger. Be enthusiastic. Look around your area and see who's doing work that speaks to you. Then walk into their office and say, "Hey, I'd like to work for you folks.. What can I do for you?". You'll WILL get worked hard for low pay. If you show some gumption and an ability to learn quick, you'll get added responsibilities and increased pay. It's not magic.. this is a tough business.
We're lucky to have such hippster jobs. But there's a rub - it's insecure and takes a high risk tolerance. You've got to get that little bit of fatalism that will carry you through your uncertainties and lead you to your breakthroughs.
Hang in there. Concentrate on your abilities and commit to always do a good job. You'll get noticed in time. Forget about Revenge and Justice... You'll just end up dying poor and pissed off.
Now get out there and go for it. Mistakes happen. Eat crow, learn and move on. It's the best tonic.
toasteroven
Feb 29, 12 9:50 pm
@pdigi: how much are you standing to lose? can you eat that money and move on?
@DMS: Being bitter and trying to wage justice for society is a complete waste of time for a young production draftsman
agreed - being bitter is a waste of time, but I think the reason IC is not appealing to many youngsters is that they still hold aspirations of being design architects. I guess if you're fine making money and getting highly skilled within a small niche of our profession then it's a legit route, but if you have bigger plans for your career this is not something you want to end up doing for too long.
pdigi
Mar 1, 12 1:44 am
@toasteroven Assuming I file form 8919 and recalculate what I owe, I'd be paying half what I would as a 1099 and STILL be taking a pretty big hit. No unemployment benefits means I have to find some source of income very soon. I've been searching for a part-time job.
@DMS I do agree with everything you said. However, this never started out as a vendetta. I filed for unemployment thinking I had nothing to lose. It wasn't until the Department of Labor informed me I was misclassified that I began to worry about my own tax situation. I'm simply trying to do the right thing so I don't end up screwed somehow.
chigurh
Dec 4, 18 9:01 am
did you fill out a w9? did you collect paychecks that didn't have any withholdings? Then you should have known. Either way dude sounds like a dirtbag and probably misrepresented the arrangement but if you filled out a w9 you probably have little recourse.
Sean!
Dec 4, 18 2:37 pm
Sounds like a shitty place to work. There are lots of places like this in all industries. You learned a lesson, now move on to the next one. Personally I like more established places to work for for this very reason.
G4tor
Dec 4, 18 5:27 pm
This post is very reminiscent of the practices of my previous firm and i would like to also ask of the Archinect community in regards to my situation. A year and a half (roughly) ago, I had started working in a design firm with the caveat that the first 90 days was at will with no benefits accrual. Though an employee, I was handed a 1099 and was expected to pay all my with holdings. It seems that, through reading this post, that this is generally a common practice but not a legal one (and that it is possible for me to file a s-88).
The other thing is that they didn't "pay me out" when i left the firm even though I had accrued a lot of vacation days. They made a practice to never show the vacation days accrued on the pay stub (and I was naive to think that i was going to stay there long enough to use them all) so I'm pretty sure that's a lost cause.
With all that's said and done, i feel cheated and I don't know if the best for me to file a S-88 (do i have the right to do it in this situation?). On one hand, i left on good terms. On the other, I don't think such practices should persists in the community and they really left a bad impression on me when I found out that I wasn't going to get paid out for my vacation days.
Thank you for your help.
geezertect
Dec 4, 18 6:25 pm
I don't think they legally have to pay you for unused vacation. Chicken shit but they can do it. One more example of what an incredibly shitty "profession" this can be.
In fact, all of my previous employers, with the exception of the one that i just mentioned, have paid me out in terms of unused vacation
. That is why I was particularly disheartened to see I have received nothing when I chose to change jobs.
Not sure how you were accruing vacation days as a 1099 though. Do firms do that?
G4tor
Dec 4, 18 7:11 pm
Sorry for the missing info. What had happened was that i was a "1099" worker for the first 90 days(even though I was technically an employee and thus, the S-88 question in prev. post) . After the 90 days, however, I began vacation day accruals as a W-2 worker.
G4tor
Dec 4, 18 7:30 pm
*Correction: I meant form SS-8. :P Apologies to anyone affected.
Has anyone experienced firms that cycle through new employees*?
I recently worked at a small firm consisting of the principal, myself, and another intern. I worked there for a year and a few months before being let go due to my "slipping performance". Initially, I was hired part-time for peanuts with the idea that after 3-6 months I would be brought up with better pay and benefits. Part-time status turned to full-time (40 hours) after a week.
For the first six months I worked very hard. I frequently worked over forty hours a week; even coming in on weekends if necessary. There was never any overtime pay. I was given a slight raise, but no benefits. Soon after, another intern was brought on board. They too began on a part-time basis, but unlike myself, did not begin working full time for about a month. This person had a B.S. Arch and started out as a strong employee. Within a few months however, this employee began calling out sick. It was an almost frequent occasion as they would conveniently feel sick around deadlines. In the short time they were there, they managed to miss more than a week's worth of days, often left early due to feeling ill, and rendered themselves useless for a couple days when they accidentally disabled their computer. Needless to say, this person was not the easiest to work with.
At my year review, I was informed my main issues were tardiness (I admit I came frequently came in 5-10 minutes late) and that my performance had dropped in recent months. Since it was small, the principal was out of the office, on average, 3 days a week for meetings, site visits, etc. I was required to work independently; often having to create relevant work for myself as the principal could not always inform me of specific tasks. This worked sometimes, specifically when it came to producing objective work - construction documents, schedules, spec. sheets, etc. Other times, when given an open ended design problem, or drawings to do with no given parameters, I tended to take more time and produced little by the end of the day, often due to lack of direction. Despite the negative comments, the overall review was good. I was praised for my reliability, composure during pressure situations, and ability to consistently meet deadlines. At the end of the review, I was given a slight raise and the conversation briefly touched on the placement of benefits. I left the review feeling positive that I was given constructive feedback and that my career was finally getting started.
Two months later, I was no longer tardy, still working as hard as I could. However, I was still failing to design as efficiently independently as my boss expected of me. And so, on the basis of my declining performance, I was released from the firm. My now former employer citing that we should "take a break". The principal assured I was a smart, hard working, and "one of the most reliable people to ever work" for them. They even offered career counseling and aid in my future job search. I was gracious and calm in my exit. Deep down, I was bewildered, confused, upset, and angry. Was my performance THAT bad? If so, then why was the other employee not let go too?
I have since come to see this as a blessing in disguise. I did learn a lot in my time there, as the principal took time to teach me about construction and architecture as a business. However, I am very pleased to no longer be working with that coworker and feel I have a matured and refreshed outlook on my career.
Recently though, through the power of Facebook, I found that a person I have a mutual friend with, is now *employed* at my former firm. This person is two years younger than myself and with less experience. It is important to note that when I came in for my interview, there was another intern there. I was excited to see that I would be working with young, growing office. However, when I began working, I was told that the former intern was let go.
Does this firm squeeze the juice out of young employees* and then hire new ones? Is this common among architecture firms/small businesses? Excuse my naivete, but I hope this practice is not common. If so, all I can do is hope that I don't work for another firm like it.
* I note employee because I have recently discovered that I was a misclassified 1099 when I filed for unemployment. I'm sure the others who work there are also misclassified. Again, please excuse my naivete, but I thought it was common for businesses to pay employees on 1099 until they became "full-time" employees. I am unsure as to what will happen now. Last I spoke with the unemployment office, they said they were investigating the situation. It seems like the government is on my side. Anyone have experience with this?
Thanks for taking the time to read this long rant. Archinect has always been a supportive and constructive community for me.
@DMS-USA Your advice is great for anyone who wants to be an independent contractor. However, as toasteroven said, there are a lot of a young, inexperienced people entering the profession who are being taken advantage of. I have learned the hard way. I actually believed that being a 1099 was an option for employers. It is, just an illegal and unethical option if the person is actually an employee.
I actually do need some advice though.
As previously stated, I have emailed my previous employer requesting the proper tax form three times with no response. I KNOW I should receive a 1099-MISC because I received one last year, never had any taxes deducted, and also never filled out a W-2 when I first started.
I filed FORM SS-8 to get a determination on my misclassification, but I received a letter from the IRS stating I was missing information. The IRS noted that I needed to attach of copy of my 1099-MISC. However, I have not received that yet. I was told that when filing my taxes, I should attach FORM 8919 along with Schedule C to recalculate what I must pay.
I have kept a pretty accurate record of my wages. I am not 100% sure they are accurate as there were stretches of time I was late recording. Mind you, this was just a personal record of finances. From what I gather, I can still file my taxes with my personal records of my wages.
Can I still file FORM 8919 along with Schedule C, knowing that my determination is still up in the air?
Suppose I never get my 1099, does that mean I can never officially get a determination of being misclassified?
I am seeking advice from accountants and have talked to the IRS. However, a lot of people do not seem to have much knowledge on misclassification and what to do. I had to speak with four different IRS agents before one was able to give me an answer my research already gave me. Two accountants I've spoken with aren't sure about the issue either. I will continue to do research and ask some accountants, but hopefully someone on this forum will give me some insight.
Thanks.
Don't worry about the 1099. Just claim the income in the 'Other Income' list on your Schedule C, and list it as payment for drafting services with the guy's name included. If you ever get questioned, you'll be able to answer the IRS agent truthfully under oath that you were paid 'X' and claimed 'X'. They know if you're trying to deceive them. Besides, it'd be simple enough for them to go knock on his door and make him cough up his records. You could go through the form 8919 exercise if you want, but I wouldn't bother. Just get used to paying 100% FICA from here on out. I know, it's total theft... but hey, it beats spending your life in the graybar hotel. Maybe Granny will send you a thank-you note for paying for her electric scooter some day (don't hold breath). Forget that money (FICA) ever belonged to you. I'm guessing you don't make enough yet to actually pay any income tax, but FICA will always take a 16% bite of your AGI (If you work as an indy).
By the way... I'm not telling you what to do, I'm just suggesting how I'd handle it myself. I had two customers who failed to 1099 me in 2010 (guys I know - friends! They're just flakey about that crap, is all). The above is exactly what I did. It happens all the time - particularly for small amounts. You're considered an upright citizen by .GOV as long as you report truthfully. If you like, get some tax advice from someone you trust, or a referral to a friend's tax preparer. I don't have an accountant.... I do all my books and taxes myself (do taxes with TurboTax Home & Business - just like Timmy Geithner! <g>).
Forget about trying to 'nail this guy' and all that crap. Just chalk it up as a learning experience and move on. Next time, you'll know to work out all these issues right away in the interview, and the whole time will be showing your potential employer what a sharp cookie and savy operator you are. Nothing speaks professionalism like a working knowledge of your trade and it's customs. You're smarter, now.
Being bitter and trying to wage justice for society is a complete waste of time for a young production draftsman. Nobody will care and you'll just grind your bright, shining soul into dust. Spend your time trying to find a situation that suits you, instead. I've worked for over a dozen different outfits, and with the exception of ONE, they've all been great people to work with and would be happy to take my call anytime.
Be a tiger. Be enthusiastic. Look around your area and see who's doing work that speaks to you. Then walk into their office and say, "Hey, I'd like to work for you folks.. What can I do for you?". You'll WILL get worked hard for low pay. If you show some gumption and an ability to learn quick, you'll get added responsibilities and increased pay. It's not magic.. this is a tough business.
We're lucky to have such hippster jobs. But there's a rub - it's insecure and takes a high risk tolerance. You've got to get that little bit of fatalism that will carry you through your uncertainties and lead you to your breakthroughs.
Hang in there. Concentrate on your abilities and commit to always do a good job. You'll get noticed in time. Forget about Revenge and Justice... You'll just end up dying poor and pissed off.
Now get out there and go for it. Mistakes happen. Eat crow, learn and move on. It's the best tonic.
@pdigi: how much are you standing to lose? can you eat that money and move on?
@DMS: Being bitter and trying to wage justice for society is a complete waste of time for a young production draftsman
agreed - being bitter is a waste of time, but I think the reason IC is not appealing to many youngsters is that they still hold aspirations of being design architects. I guess if you're fine making money and getting highly skilled within a small niche of our profession then it's a legit route, but if you have bigger plans for your career this is not something you want to end up doing for too long.
@toasteroven Assuming I file form 8919 and recalculate what I owe, I'd be paying half what I would as a 1099 and STILL be taking a pretty big hit. No unemployment benefits means I have to find some source of income very soon. I've been searching for a part-time job.
@DMS I do agree with everything you said. However, this never started out as a vendetta. I filed for unemployment thinking I had nothing to lose. It wasn't until the Department of Labor informed me I was misclassified that I began to worry about my own tax situation. I'm simply trying to do the right thing so I don't end up screwed somehow.
did you fill out a w9? did you collect paychecks that didn't have any withholdings? Then you should have known. Either way dude sounds like a dirtbag and probably misrepresented the arrangement but if you filled out a w9 you probably have little recourse.
Sounds like a shitty place to work. There are lots of places like this in all industries. You learned a lesson, now move on to the next one. Personally I like more established places to work for for this very reason.
This post is very reminiscent of the practices of my previous firm and i would like to also ask of the Archinect community in regards to my situation. A year and a half (roughly) ago, I had started working in a design firm with the caveat that the first 90 days was at will with no benefits accrual. Though an employee, I was handed a 1099 and was expected to pay all my with holdings. It seems that, through reading this post, that this is generally a common practice but not a legal one (and that it is possible for me to file a s-88).
The other thing is that they didn't "pay me out" when i left the firm even though I had accrued a lot of vacation days. They made a practice to never show the vacation days accrued on the pay stub (and I was naive to think that i was going to stay there long enough to use them all) so I'm pretty sure that's a lost cause.
With all that's said and done, i feel cheated and I don't know if the best for me to file a S-88 (do i have the right to do it in this situation?). On one hand, i left on good terms. On the other, I don't think such practices should persists in the community and they really left a bad impression on me when I found out that I wasn't going to get paid out for my vacation days.
Thank you for your help.
I don't think they legally have to pay you for unused vacation. Chicken shit but they can do it. One more example of what an incredibly shitty "profession" this can be.
I've read that if they give you vacation time, they are legally obligated to pay you for any unused vacation time. See link: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/california-rules-vacation-paid-time-off.html
In fact, all of my previous employers, with the exception of the one that i just mentioned, have paid me out in terms of unused vacation . That is why I was particularly disheartened to see I have received nothing when I chose to change jobs.
requirements to pay out vacation time accrued will vary by state. Not sure of the accuracy of this resource so YMMV: http://ask.legalsolutions.thomsonreuters.info/cc-nto-vacation-rolling-pl
Not sure how you were accruing vacation days as a 1099 though. Do firms do that?
Sorry for the missing info. What had happened was that i was a "1099" worker for the first 90 days(even though I was technically an employee and thus, the S-88 question in prev. post) . After the 90 days, however, I began vacation day accruals as a W-2 worker.
*Correction: I meant form SS-8. :P Apologies to anyone affected.