I'm posting here again because I've gotten some really helpful feedback, and thought I would share an interesting quandary that I find myself in. I'm kind of at a loss and am seeking advice.
Last month, I received an exciting job offer nearly 2,000 miles away from where I currently live - which allowed me to leave the office I was then employed at. The office was extremely toxic; I was one of their "1099 employees", a scam we all know, and the principals were verbally and emotionally abusive.
The job offer was amazing, and a rarity (as I understand it) in this field. A municipality with a town architect's office wanted to hire me. They offered north of $80k as a salary, and they were so enthusiastic about our interviews that they even bumped it up by $6,000. I would be getting perks and job security that architects rarely know: Government healthcare, a full pension, and union protections, as well as nearly limitless paid leave. I was over the moon.
Since the town is in a very expensive resort area, I had a lot of trouble finding a place to live that I could afford, but felt a strong sense of duty in making it work. Luckily, I found a great little ADU and am excited to move. It's taken a while to line up all the switches, so to speak, but I am currently planning on moving next week and couldn't be more excited.
Until today. As we all know, government moves at a snails pace, and it took them ages to get me my benefits options. I now have an accurate idea of what my actual pay will be, and after running some calculations in my living expenses spreadsheet, it literally looks unaffordable. The state that the town is in also has notoriously sky-high health care premiums. Here's a monthly breakdown:
Lowest possible healthcare premium: $400 per month, HSA covered at 50%
Pension contribution: 14%. My jaw dropped.
Union dues: $50.00. Not bad, considering.
Including taxes, this amounts to nearly a 40% withholdings. Mind you, my rent is basically $2,000/month.
Has anyone had experience with a government job like this? I really want to make it work, but shouldn't be living hand to mouth at this point in my life. I have burned through a lot of savings (preparing to move, deposit on ADU apartment, etc.) and don't have any fallback. I feel like it's all crashing down at the moment. My inclination is to try to reduce my pension contribution, but it's mandatory, no negotiation, and I also understand the importance of having a pension.
Thanks
Jay1122
Mar 30, 23 2:35 pm
How many years of experience you got? Honestly the number sounds about right to me. I don't know what the problem is.
If you think that is bad. Come look at the NYC tristate region. NYC Senior architect makes 100-120K, rent is 3000-4000 per month. Suburb area salary 80-90K, rent 2000-3000.
SouthCoast
Mar 30, 23 9:21 pm
I got my masters just last year, but have 5+ years of firm experience besides that.
Chad Miller
Mar 30, 23 2:58 pm
I'd ask for more money. These resort town typically have the funding. That your find a cheaper place to live and commute in on the bus systems like everyone else.
For me:
Healthcare:
$340 a month with a max out of pocket of $4,500 a year
Retirement:
Currently at 12% with a 3.5% match by my firm
Mortgage:
$1,000 a month
SouthCoast
Mar 31, 23 3:17 pm
Bus system? This isn't nyc! This is coastal Mass, where there's basically no public transport. The busses run in and out of Boston, and there's commuter rail if you're lucky
bowling_ball
Mar 30, 23 4:41 pm
Welcome to the rest of the developed world? Your taxes are actually very reasonable imo. It's the pension contribution that's throwing things off.
That 14% you're putting into your pension? That's still your money. Presumably you can withdraw it, though likely with penalties.
SouthCoast
Mar 30, 23 9:18 pm
Taxes are not the problem, as you note the pension is quite high. I can only start to withdraw the pension after a decade.
Bench
Mar 30, 23 4:53 pm
Yeah I'm not entirely understanding the problem. If salary is over 80k, and witholding is around 40%, rent is annually 24k, there's +24k left for other things ... ? Are these massively out of line?
Chad Miller
Mar 30, 23 5:16 pm
If the OP is where I think that $24K will go quick as the rest of the cost of living is about 94% higher than where I live now in Grand Junction, CO. You're talking about an area where a double stall garage costs around $400k.
SouthCoast
Mar 30, 23 9:20 pm
Just to be clear: This is an area where builder grade - builder grade, as in vinyl everywhere - costs 1,000 per foot. So yeah, money tends to go quick.
Jay1122
Mar 31, 23 9:25 am
Most of the cost of living difference is in the housing market. Grocery will only be slightly more. Just refrain from excessive restaurant and entertainment. Honestly that compensation sounds very reasonable to me. You may not even get 80K in NYC with 5 years experience.
How people around live by? You either have a roommate or have a relationship to split the rent. Take on the rent and utility with the single income is a big burden.
square.
Mar 31, 23 10:25 am
yeah the 2k rent a month seems a little exorbitant.. definitely savings to be found there. most people that i know in arch in nyc don't pay anything close to 2k (per person) in rent.
reallynotmyname
Mar 31, 23 12:32 pm
Where do the town's other workers live? Find out where that is and maybe look for housing there. There's got to be folks like police and sanitation workers who are being paid way less than you but making it work somehow. You might end up commuting from a less fancy town nearby.
reallynotmyname
Mar 31, 23 12:46 pm
And a government pension can be a much better deal over your lifetime than the average IRA type account that a private employer may offer you. If you live to be really old, that IRA money could eventually be depleted, but the pension checks are going to keep coming 'til you die.
SouthCoast
Mar 31, 23 1:07 pm
All I can say is…this is the housing crisis we keep hearing about! Yes, a one bedroom in this community is 2k. I know it’s outrageous. It’s really bad out there. I don’t doubt that it’s worse than New York. It’s definitely a problem - town workers are leaving in droves, along with nurses, teachers, etc., because landlords are dialing up the rent or selling out altogether. It really isn’t their fault entirely - this community has seen a MASSIVE surge of real estate speculation post pandemic, and many homes are empty throughout the year, being owned by hedge funds. Welcome to post-pandemic America lol
SouthCoast
Mar 31, 23 3:04 pm
Additionally - the trope that the housing crisis can be solved by people making sacrifices has been tried before, and it’s failed. I won’t say where exactly, but the job is on Cape Cod. For essential workers like myself (town personnel are considered essential during emergencies) an off-Cape commute would be laughable in the event of a storm/hurricane/disaster. So really try to understand this: 2k a month wasn’t the choosing of a luxurious housing option; it was literally the only choice.
SouthCoast
Mar 31, 23 3:04 pm
Additionally - the trope that the housing crisis can be solved by people making sacrifices has been tried before, and it’s failed. I won’t say where exactly, but the job is on Cape Cod. For essential workers like myself (town personnel are considered essential during emergencies) an off-Cape commute would be laughable in the event of a storm/hurricane/disaster. So really try to understand this: 2k a month wasn’t the choosing of a luxurious housing option; it was literally the only choice.
SouthCoast
Mar 31, 23 3:36 pm
Didn't intend to post the last response twice, but I can't find an edit/delete button, so I'll add this follow-up:
For the comments about housing prices in nyc: This is not nyc, and yes, there are places where housing costs are much higher. $1,700-$2,000 per month for a one-bedroom is now the going rate for housing in small, dense, moderately desirable areas. If you think this is outrageous, try working for an architect in a Colorado ski town like Vail or Aspen, where even the "bedroom" communities see rents approaching 3k. In these circumstances, you can't simply make a sacrifice to live somewhere cheaper. There is no "somewhere cheaper", unless you want a three hour drive to the office each morning.
It's also shitty to suggest that people should "make it work" by living in their cars, hotels, couch-surfing, etc. The attitude that disparity is a right of passage is a toxic hallmark of this profession. I've heard from wealthy friends and family, too. I wanted a safe, clean, predictable place to live. That now costs 2k per month thanks to the insane real estate bonanza we now live in.
Bench
Mar 31, 23 4:40 pm
I don tthink anyone suggested living in their cars or couch surfing ..
mightyaa
Mar 31, 23 5:34 pm
If it's Vail or Aspen, there are housing lotteries too. Basically fixed rent places that are set aside. Most though live pretty far away, and ride the bus an hour or more to get to work. Most the resort towns have some sort of free public transportation to solve their worker issues. Like Aspen has buses going to Glenwood Springs. Vail has them to Avon, etc. Locally too, there's a ton of local deals/specials like deli's. And the barter system is also alive and well. With your salary though, you are kinda whiny; The housecleaners, lift operators, etc. have a much harder time since they make half that and can make it work. Plus a lot of resorts make huge cuts in off-season, so the workforce is sort of transient. Might also work to your advantage as there will be more availability when the ski slopes close and people move when their job ends. A plush gig if you can find it is 'caretaker'. Basically, those multimillion dollar Aspen homes have caretaker suites for someone to take care of and prep the house when they come.
SouthCoast
Mar 31, 23 6:17 pm
“Whiny” = entitled, expecting to save money. In other words, “we all had to make sacrifices, what makes you special?”
Traveling on I70,
SouthCoast
Mar 31, 23 6:22 pm
*Traveling on I70 from Glenwood Springs to and from Vail via Eagle/Avon can be extremely inconvenient at best, deadly and hazardous at worst. I have a number of friends more towards the front range who have to commute on I-70. It’s not a way to live. Additionally, this gets at the root of a different problem. Some believe that safe housing must be an earned privilege; hence it is acceptable to expect locals to hop around from place to place to accommodate wealthy visitors. It amazes me how some folks still trivialize this crisis, my own complaining aside.
flatroof
Mar 31, 23 5:55 pm
Resort towns are the worst. The Hamptons can't even find good help these days! And no one to staff the artisanal market. All I know is I am getting inflated out of this line work. Salaries will never catch up if the pace continues. With you on the rent, even BFE rents are 1500 min for 1 BRs that aren't POSs these days.
Hello everyone -
I'm posting here again because I've gotten some really helpful feedback, and thought I would share an interesting quandary that I find myself in. I'm kind of at a loss and am seeking advice.
Last month, I received an exciting job offer nearly 2,000 miles away from where I currently live - which allowed me to leave the office I was then employed at. The office was extremely toxic; I was one of their "1099 employees", a scam we all know, and the principals were verbally and emotionally abusive.
The job offer was amazing, and a rarity (as I understand it) in this field. A municipality with a town architect's office wanted to hire me. They offered north of $80k as a salary, and they were so enthusiastic about our interviews that they even bumped it up by $6,000. I would be getting perks and job security that architects rarely know: Government healthcare, a full pension, and union protections, as well as nearly limitless paid leave. I was over the moon.
Since the town is in a very expensive resort area, I had a lot of trouble finding a place to live that I could afford, but felt a strong sense of duty in making it work. Luckily, I found a great little ADU and am excited to move. It's taken a while to line up all the switches, so to speak, but I am currently planning on moving next week and couldn't be more excited.
Until today. As we all know, government moves at a snails pace, and it took them ages to get me my benefits options. I now have an accurate idea of what my actual pay will be, and after running some calculations in my living expenses spreadsheet, it literally looks unaffordable. The state that the town is in also has notoriously sky-high health care premiums. Here's a monthly breakdown:
Lowest possible healthcare premium: $400 per month, HSA covered at 50%
Pension contribution: 14%. My jaw dropped.
Union dues: $50.00. Not bad, considering.
Including taxes, this amounts to nearly a 40% withholdings. Mind you, my rent is basically $2,000/month.
Has anyone had experience with a government job like this? I really want to make it work, but shouldn't be living hand to mouth at this point in my life. I have burned through a lot of savings (preparing to move, deposit on ADU apartment, etc.) and don't have any fallback. I feel like it's all crashing down at the moment. My inclination is to try to reduce my pension contribution, but it's mandatory, no negotiation, and I also understand the importance of having a pension.
Thanks
How many years of experience you got? Honestly the number sounds about right to me. I don't know what the problem is.
If you think that is bad. Come look at the NYC tristate region. NYC Senior architect makes 100-120K, rent is 3000-4000 per month. Suburb area salary 80-90K, rent 2000-3000.
I got my masters just last year, but have 5+ years of firm experience besides that.
I'd ask for more money. These resort town typically have the funding. That your find a cheaper place to live and commute in on the bus systems like everyone else.
For me:
Healthcare:
$340 a month with a max out of pocket of $4,500 a year
Retirement:
Currently at 12% with a 3.5% match by my firm
Mortgage:
$1,000 a month
Bus system? This isn't nyc! This is coastal Mass, where there's basically no public transport. The busses run in and out of Boston, and there's commuter rail if you're lucky
Welcome to the rest of the developed world? Your taxes are actually very reasonable imo. It's the pension contribution that's throwing things off.
That 14% you're putting into your pension? That's still your money. Presumably you can withdraw it, though likely with penalties.
Taxes are not the problem, as you note the pension is quite high. I can only start to withdraw the pension after a decade.
Yeah I'm not entirely understanding the problem. If salary is over 80k, and witholding is around 40%, rent is annually 24k, there's +24k left for other things ... ? Are these massively out of line?
If the OP is where I think that $24K will go quick as the rest of the cost of living is about 94% higher than where I live now in Grand Junction, CO. You're talking about an area where a double stall garage costs around $400k.
Just to be clear: This is an area where builder grade - builder grade, as in vinyl everywhere - costs 1,000 per foot. So yeah, money tends to go quick.
Most of the cost of living difference is in the housing market. Grocery will only be slightly more. Just refrain from excessive restaurant and entertainment. Honestly that compensation sounds very reasonable to me. You may not even get 80K in NYC with 5 years experience.
How people around live by? You either have a roommate or have a relationship to split the rent. Take on the rent and utility with the single income is a big burden.
yeah the 2k rent a month seems a little exorbitant.. definitely savings to be found there. most people that i know in arch in nyc don't pay anything close to 2k (per person) in rent.
Where do the town's other workers live? Find out where that is and maybe look for housing there. There's got to be folks like police and sanitation workers who are being paid way less than you but making it work somehow. You might end up commuting from a less fancy town nearby.
And a government pension can be a much better deal over your lifetime than the average IRA type account that a private employer may offer you. If you live to be really old, that IRA money could eventually be depleted, but the pension checks are going to keep coming 'til you die.
All I can say is…this is the housing crisis we keep hearing about! Yes, a one bedroom in this community is 2k. I know it’s outrageous. It’s really bad out there. I don’t doubt that it’s worse than New York. It’s definitely a problem - town workers are leaving in droves, along with nurses, teachers, etc., because landlords are dialing up the rent or selling out altogether. It really isn’t their fault entirely - this community has seen a MASSIVE surge of real estate speculation post pandemic, and many homes are empty throughout the year, being owned by hedge funds. Welcome to post-pandemic America lol
Additionally - the trope that the housing crisis can be solved by people making sacrifices has been tried before, and it’s failed. I won’t say where exactly, but the job is on Cape Cod. For essential workers like myself (town personnel are considered essential during emergencies) an off-Cape commute would be laughable in the event of a storm/hurricane/disaster. So really try to understand this: 2k a month wasn’t the choosing of a luxurious housing option; it was literally the only choice.
Additionally - the trope that the housing crisis can be solved by people making sacrifices has been tried before, and it’s failed. I won’t say where exactly, but the job is on Cape Cod. For essential workers like myself (town personnel are considered essential during emergencies) an off-Cape commute would be laughable in the event of a storm/hurricane/disaster. So really try to understand this: 2k a month wasn’t the choosing of a luxurious housing option; it was literally the only choice.
Didn't intend to post the last response twice, but I can't find an edit/delete button, so I'll add this follow-up:
For the comments about housing prices in nyc: This is not nyc, and yes, there are places where housing costs are much higher. $1,700-$2,000 per month for a one-bedroom is now the going rate for housing in small, dense, moderately desirable areas. If you think this is outrageous, try working for an architect in a Colorado ski town like Vail or Aspen, where even the "bedroom" communities see rents approaching 3k. In these circumstances, you can't simply make a sacrifice to live somewhere cheaper. There is no "somewhere cheaper", unless you want a three hour drive to the office each morning.
It's also shitty to suggest that people should "make it work" by living in their cars, hotels, couch-surfing, etc. The attitude that disparity is a right of passage is a toxic hallmark of this profession. I've heard from wealthy friends and family, too. I wanted a safe, clean, predictable place to live. That now costs 2k per month thanks to the insane real estate bonanza we now live in.
I don tthink anyone suggested living in their cars or couch surfing ..
If it's Vail or Aspen, there are housing lotteries too. Basically fixed rent places that are set aside. Most though live pretty far away, and ride the bus an hour or more to get to work. Most the resort towns have some sort of free public transportation to solve their worker issues. Like Aspen has buses going to Glenwood Springs. Vail has them to Avon, etc. Locally too, there's a ton of local deals/specials like deli's. And the barter system is also alive and well. With your salary though, you are kinda whiny; The housecleaners, lift operators, etc. have a much harder time since they make half that and can make it work. Plus a lot of resorts make huge cuts in off-season, so the workforce is sort of transient. Might also work to your advantage as there will be more availability when the ski slopes close and people move when their job ends. A plush gig if you can find it is 'caretaker'. Basically, those multimillion dollar Aspen homes have caretaker suites for someone to take care of and prep the house when they come.
“Whiny” = entitled, expecting to save money. In other words, “we all had to make sacrifices, what makes you special?”
Traveling on I70,
*Traveling on I70 from Glenwood Springs to and from Vail via Eagle/Avon can be extremely inconvenient at best, deadly and hazardous at worst. I have a number of friends more towards the front range who have to commute on I-70. It’s not a way to live. Additionally, this gets at the root of a different problem. Some believe that safe housing must be an earned privilege; hence it is acceptable to expect locals to hop around from place to place to accommodate wealthy visitors. It amazes me how some folks still trivialize this crisis, my own complaining aside.
Resort towns are the worst. The Hamptons can't even find good help these days! And no one to staff the artisanal market. All I know is I am getting inflated out of this line work. Salaries will never catch up if the pace continues. With you on the rent, even BFE rents are 1500 min for 1 BRs that aren't POSs these days.