Hey beginner architect-in-training question here. How do I know what codes apply to any one project? Do you always just ask the local jurisdiction? Are there any online tools? Follow up question - I am working on a residential project. Does the California Building Code apply? Or just the California Building Code? Asking because I'm wondering if I need to include CBC on the governing codes section, or if the CRC is enough to cover it.
Wood Guy
Mar 24, 23 5:16 pm
Almost all jurisdictions have websites that explain the basics of what is required for permitting, including what building codes they follow and a copy of the zoning ordinance which is just as important as the building code. Some places make it clear and simple; others make it nearly impossible without meeting with a code official. I don't believe you're allowed to do anything in California without a license but I'm not sure.
You need to follow CA Title 24 Part 2.5 Residential Code for a house
There are a number of requirements that you should get from your local jurisdiction. Call the permitting office and talk to the permit tech to understand the requirements. Unless they are a tiny jurisdiction, they likely have a checklist of required elements on building permit plans.
proto
Mar 24, 23 6:31 pm
FWIW, if you're using a structural engineer, they will follow the CBC while you, as the architect side, will follow the CRC
most jurisdictions do have online info for you
Non Sequitur
Mar 24, 23 6:34 pm
consult your daily horoscope.
b3tadine[sutures]
Mar 25, 23 3:51 pm
Whenever I work on building codes, I always get takeout Chinese. The fortune cookie has better analysis.
Richard Balkins
Mar 25, 23 5:06 pm
First thing, identify what the building codes and related codes as amended and adopted by the state and/or local jurisdiction that has jurisdictional authority. You should consult the website(s) and the applicable department of the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction).
Second, identify the occupancy/use classification that would apply to the project. Note: keep zoning/land-use regulation separate from building codes & related codes (fire code, plumbing code, electrical code, etc.) but still applicable to the project. You should concurrently identify your zoning classification and the potentially applicable requirements. At this stage, you should already know and identify if the project involves a new building to be built, an existing building, or involve a historic building, or any combination of those buildings.
Existing or historic buildings building code requirements typically begins with chapter 34 of the building code or may directly apply the "international existing building code" (IEBC) or some version of it (in the U.S.).
Sometimes, a project like your residential project may fall into the residential code (IRC or some version of it as amended) yet you may be doing something that requires or involves the general BUILDING CODE (IBC or some version of it). If it is existing or historic, IEBC may apply ( or chapter 34 of IBC in some jurisdiction in the U.S.) In California, the title of the code may be different than the title of the model codes published by ICC.
Before step 1 and 2, you should have your project program and scope of work pretty well worked out and fairly clear. If you don't know what your project is, all this is moot until you what the project is.
Non Sequitur
Mar 25, 23 7:40 pm
Or it’s just easier to start by eliminating which codes are not applicable.
Richard Balkins
Mar 26, 23 12:08 am
Either way but knowing what codes are applicable is obviously going to involve knowing what doesn't apply. Whatever it takes but you need or should know why a code is not applicable as well as when a code is applicable. Both ways.
So we agree, I think.
We probably agree that it's going to be some work not just some cross your finger and delude oneself. We are talking about being professionals.
"OP: How do I know what codes apply to a project?
Balkins: Step 1. Identify the codes that apply."
If you don't know what, how, and why the code provisions does and/or does not apply to your project, you are not ready to lead projects. A lot of it is reading the codes. Those "shall" and "shall not" and related sentences are telling you when the requirement applies. It's tedious.
No one says it wasn't and if you thought you can get away with becoming a professional without tedious work involved in the of a professional, then you are delusional. (Not saying that is you, proto, just to be clear)
proto
Mar 26, 23 9:23 pm
OP is a self-described “beginner architect in training”. OP isn’t pretending to be ready to “lead projects”. OP is trying to learn something fundamental that wasn’t part of school.
Richard Balkins
Mar 26, 23 10:09 pm
Of course, but an apprentice on the path to becoming an architect, a design professional?
Richard Balkins
Mar 26, 23 10:43 pm
In short, the point of stating what I did is precisely for the very reason he is not yet a design professional. Nonetheless, the exercise of professional duties applies. Even for non-licensed designers working on buildings not legally requiring an licensed architect. As a design professional, you know already what I said.
Richard Balkins
Mar 27, 23 4:11 pm
How do you apply the codes. Part of it is a quick look at the governing statutes of the state. It may give insight into purpose of the particular codes and which one applies by default. It's probably clear in the statutes adopting CRC that CRC is the default code for residential projects that are defined within the scope of the code's jurisdiction. When some project or some aspect of a project falls outside CRC, then that project or aspect of a project falls into CBC. This is similar to how ORSC (Oregon's amended IRC) applies in Oregon versus OSSC (Oregon's amended IBC). If your projects is a project scope that the residential code applies to and you follow prescriptive requirements of the residential code, that is the code you apply. However, sometimes a project may have individual elements that is non-presciptive, then applicable provisions of the BUILDING CODE applies to those elements. There is a point where the whole project may fall into the building code. Example: Mixed-use may trigger this sometimes. So, when do you drop use of the residential code and apply just the building code on a residential project? When the project is no longer a one or tw family home or townhouse, or when there is enough unusual aspects to the particular project and the building official says so.... usually if you are involving some unusual engineering designs that falls well outside the prescriptive requirements. This is a judgment call the building department may have to decide but you may already decide to design accordingly to that level. As a designer, you may design above the minimum requirements of code but may very well not be permitted to design below that (and usually not for new construction). Historic and existing buildings may have different standards to meet than new construction.
luvu
Mar 26, 23 7:40 pm
Planning permit and building permit is the same thing in the US of A ? curious
Richard Balkins
Mar 26, 23 8:06 pm
Yes and no. Technically, they are different but many cities integrated planning (zoning and related codes [overlay zones, etc.]) and building because there is usual intersection in a project that involves land use / zoning matters and building codes. So they may be concurrent but they are legally separate matters.
proto
Mar 26, 23 8:12 pm
@luvu, in most american jurisdictions, it’s reviewed during the building permit review
There are specialty land use processes that are separate, like Design Review or Historic Review. But usually, the zoning is reviewed with the life safety & structural in the US.
Richard Balkins
Mar 26, 23 8:18 pm
I agree. This makes sense. They are often concurrent yet separate legal & regulatory matters. Yet, one can still deal with zoning issues without involving building codes. Most projects will involve both building codes issues and land use / zoning & related issues.
Richard Balkins
Mar 26, 23 8:43 pm
As a design professional, you will be responsible to the client to provide professional guidance on all these issues relating to design, building & related family of codes, zoning / land use codes, and related regulations. In addition to that, any sort of site specific CC&Rs. (Easements and other issues) Your job as the design professional is to guide your client through the issues and provide professional advice on these matters so the client can make informed decisions. Yes, there are pain in the ass clients and such but lets not delve into that for sake of clarity.
It's not easy to keep track of a myriad of sprawling requirements that may effect your decision. There may be exceptions to requirements you have to negotiate through variances and such. These are all separate yet easily applicable to a project, concurrently. Many jurisdictions addresses these issues concurrently and can be overwhelming to a client. Tedious for a professional, but that's your job in this profession. This isn't art school or making a painting. It is reasonable for clients to rely on your guidance and advice when navigating through a web of regulations, regulatory reviews, etc.
Richard Balkins
Mar 26, 23 8:53 pm
The above is part of but a important part of what puts "professional" in the term "design professional". This is a key part of the professional service of a design professional.
Miyadaiku
Mar 26, 23 10:17 pm
Always check with officials. Even if it isn't your first rodeo. Things change.
I usually followed this set of actions and ended up at some clarity.
1-verify the project address. Make sure you know exactly what city and what county that plot of land is in.
2-Start at the city level and check the website and if it just doesn't have your answers contact whatever they call their department of construction/buildings. Tell them the project address and ask them how they would handle plan review and what codes apply. Sometimes they have their own rules and sometimes they will just defer you to the county or state level. Repeat until someone gives you an answer. Since it's your first time go ahead and verify EVERY requirement they have to get a building permit, not just applicable codes.
3-Once you find the codes that apply(there could be quite a list), start thumbing through them. Just be mindful, local/state codes are usually based on the IBC or IRC and just contain revisions, so you might need a copy of both.
Good luck!
Richard Balkins
Mar 27, 23 12:53 am
There is nothing wrong with talking to the officials about the requirement. In fact, it is your job. Even if a client doesn't want me to talk with the building department, I still talk to them about code requirements. As a licensed architect, you would be to. That may be a red flag about the client and some clients are unreasonable in their demand but I am not their employee.
Richard Balkins
Mar 27, 23 1:11 am
Namely to the OP:
Ultimately, you will sometimes just have to read the codes, regulations, etc. Sometimes, you just have to make a professional judgment call but professionally, you're obligated to make that judgment in the benefit of protecting public health, safety, and welfare above client's interest or desires. Contractual responsibility is trumped by professional obligation. A client may want to cut corners to save money (more likely for some personal vanity thing they want to have because they don't value HSW as you do or obligated to). Therefore, do not compromise professional duty an integrity for anyone no matter how much the client is paying. Granted, it doesn't mean, being overly excessively above the HSW standard.
When it comes to code, some of it really is a judgment call within the realm of interpretation of the codes by the building department officials. There is also times when you may have interpretive conflict and you will have to decide whether or not it is worth it for the project to challenge the building department officials interpretation or not. This is more art than science, in the art of "picking your battles". The best thing you can do is read what the requirements are and understanding what it is saying. Reading comprehension is important in this part of our professional work.
I'm a building designer, what I said, in this thread, is fundamentally true for me as it is for licensed architects as well.
Sometimes, you don't "know" (100%), so you may have to side in what is prudent and in the spirit of the codes and what they are trying to resolve. Some things are not clear cut. Some local zoning / design guidelines rules, are sometimes more politics than science or protecting HSW that you just deal with.
Hey beginner architect-in-training question here. How do I know what codes apply to any one project? Do you always just ask the local jurisdiction? Are there any online tools? Follow up question - I am working on a residential project. Does the California Building Code apply? Or just the California Building Code? Asking because I'm wondering if I need to include CBC on the governing codes section, or if the CRC is enough to cover it.
Almost all jurisdictions have websites that explain the basics of what is required for permitting, including what building codes they follow and a copy of the zoning ordinance which is just as important as the building code. Some places make it clear and simple; others make it nearly impossible without meeting with a code official. I don't believe you're allowed to do anything in California without a license but I'm not sure.
Exempt structures can be designed by non-professionals in CA: https://www.contracosta.ca.gov...
You need to follow CA Title 24 Part 2.5 Residential Code for a house
There are a number of requirements that you should get from your local jurisdiction. Call the permitting office and talk to the permit tech to understand the requirements. Unless they are a tiny jurisdiction, they likely have a checklist of required elements on building permit plans.
FWIW, if you're using a structural engineer, they will follow the CBC while you, as the architect side, will follow the CRC
most jurisdictions do have online info for you
consult your daily horoscope.
Whenever I work on building codes, I always get takeout Chinese. The fortune cookie has better analysis.
First thing, identify what the building codes and related codes as amended and adopted by the state and/or local jurisdiction that has jurisdictional authority. You should consult the website(s) and the applicable department of the AHJ (authority having jurisdiction).
Second, identify the occupancy/use classification that would apply to the project. Note: keep zoning/land-use regulation separate from building codes & related codes (fire code, plumbing code, electrical code, etc.) but still applicable to the project. You should concurrently identify your zoning classification and the potentially applicable requirements. At this stage, you should already know and identify if the project involves a new building to be built, an existing building, or involve a historic building, or any combination of those buildings.
Existing or historic buildings building code requirements typically begins with chapter 34 of the building code or may directly apply the "international existing building code" (IEBC) or some version of it (in the U.S.).
Sometimes, a project like your residential project may fall into the residential code (IRC or some version of it as amended) yet you may be doing something that requires or involves the general BUILDING CODE (IBC or some version of it). If it is existing or historic, IEBC may apply ( or chapter 34 of IBC in some jurisdiction in the U.S.) In California, the title of the code may be different than the title of the model codes published by ICC.
Before step 1 and 2, you should have your project program and scope of work pretty well worked out and fairly clear. If you don't know what your project is, all this is moot until you what the project is.
Or it’s just easier to start by eliminating which codes are not applicable.
Either way but knowing what codes are applicable is obviously going to involve knowing what doesn't apply. Whatever it takes but you need or should know why a code is not applicable as well as when a code is applicable. Both ways.
So we agree, I think.
We probably agree that it's going to be some work not just some cross your finger and delude oneself. We are talking about being professionals.
OP: How do I know what codes apply to a project?
Balkins: Step 1. Identify the codes that apply.
To be fair, he’s not wrong.
to be fair
https://youtu.be/G19B7lTgwCE
"OP: How do I know what codes apply to a project? Balkins: Step 1. Identify the codes that apply."
If you don't know what, how, and why the code provisions does and/or does not apply to your project, you are not ready to lead projects. A lot of it is reading the codes. Those "shall" and "shall not" and related sentences are telling you when the requirement applies. It's tedious.
No one says it wasn't and if you thought you can get away with becoming a professional without tedious work involved in the of a professional, then you are delusional. (Not saying that is you, proto, just to be clear)
OP is a self-described “beginner architect in training”. OP isn’t pretending to be ready to “lead projects”. OP is trying to learn something fundamental that wasn’t part of school.
Of course, but an apprentice on the path to becoming an architect, a design professional?
In short, the point of stating what I did is precisely for the very reason he is not yet a design professional. Nonetheless, the exercise of professional duties applies. Even for non-licensed designers working on buildings not legally requiring an licensed architect. As a design professional, you know already what I said.
How do you apply the codes. Part of it is a quick look at the governing statutes of the state. It may give insight into purpose of the particular codes and which one applies by default. It's probably clear in the statutes adopting CRC that CRC is the default code for residential projects that are defined within the scope of the code's jurisdiction. When some project or some aspect of a project falls outside CRC, then that project or aspect of a project falls into CBC. This is similar to how ORSC (Oregon's amended IRC) applies in Oregon versus OSSC (Oregon's amended IBC). If your projects is a project scope that the residential code applies to and you follow prescriptive requirements of the residential code, that is the code you apply. However, sometimes a project may have individual elements that is non-presciptive, then applicable provisions of the BUILDING CODE applies to those elements. There is a point where the whole project may fall into the building code. Example: Mixed-use may trigger this sometimes. So, when do you drop use of the residential code and apply just the building code on a residential project? When the project is no longer a one or tw family home or townhouse, or when there is enough unusual aspects to the particular project and the building official says so.... usually if you are involving some unusual engineering designs that falls well outside the prescriptive requirements. This is a judgment call the building department may have to decide but you may already decide to design accordingly to that level. As a designer, you may design above the minimum requirements of code but may very well not be permitted to design below that (and usually not for new construction). Historic and existing buildings may have different standards to meet than new construction.
Planning permit and building permit is the same thing in the US of A ? curious
Yes and no. Technically, they are different but many cities integrated planning (zoning and related codes [overlay zones, etc.]) and building because there is usual intersection in a project that involves land use / zoning matters and building codes. So they may be concurrent but they are legally separate matters.
@luvu, in most american jurisdictions, it’s reviewed during the building permit review
There are specialty land use processes that are separate, like Design Review or Historic Review. But usually, the zoning is reviewed with the life safety & structural in the US.
I agree. This makes sense. They are often concurrent yet separate legal & regulatory matters. Yet, one can still deal with zoning issues without involving building codes. Most projects will involve both building codes issues and land use / zoning & related issues.
As a design professional, you will be responsible to the client to provide professional guidance on all these issues relating to design, building & related family of codes, zoning / land use codes, and related regulations. In addition to that, any sort of site specific CC&Rs. (Easements and other issues) Your job as the design professional is to guide your client through the issues and provide professional advice on these matters so the client can make informed decisions. Yes, there are pain in the ass clients and such but lets not delve into that for sake of clarity.
It's not easy to keep track of a myriad of sprawling requirements that may effect your decision. There may be exceptions to requirements you have to negotiate through variances and such. These are all separate yet easily applicable to a project, concurrently. Many jurisdictions addresses these issues concurrently and can be overwhelming to a client. Tedious for a professional, but that's your job in this profession. This isn't art school or making a painting. It is reasonable for clients to rely on your guidance and advice when navigating through a web of regulations, regulatory reviews, etc.
The above is part of but a important part of what puts "professional" in the term "design professional". This is a key part of the professional service of a design professional.
Always check with officials. Even if it isn't your first rodeo. Things change.
I usually followed this set of actions and ended up at some clarity.
1-verify the project address. Make sure you know exactly what city and what county that plot of land is in.
2-Start at the city level and check the website and if it just doesn't have your answers contact whatever they call their department of construction/buildings. Tell them the project address and ask them how they would handle plan review and what codes apply. Sometimes they have their own rules and sometimes they will just defer you to the county or state level. Repeat until someone gives you an answer. Since it's your first time go ahead and verify EVERY requirement they have to get a building permit, not just applicable codes.
3-Once you find the codes that apply(there could be quite a list), start thumbing through them. Just be mindful, local/state codes are usually based on the IBC or IRC and just contain revisions, so you might need a copy of both.
Good luck!
There is nothing wrong with talking to the officials about the requirement. In fact, it is your job. Even if a client doesn't want me to talk with the building department, I still talk to them about code requirements. As a licensed architect, you would be to. That may be a red flag about the client and some clients are unreasonable in their demand but I am not their employee.
Namely to the OP:
Ultimately, you will sometimes just have to read the codes, regulations, etc. Sometimes, you just have to make a professional judgment call but professionally, you're obligated to make that judgment in the benefit of protecting public health, safety, and welfare above client's interest or desires. Contractual responsibility is trumped by professional obligation. A client may want to cut corners to save money (more likely for some personal vanity thing they want to have because they don't value HSW as you do or obligated to). Therefore, do not compromise professional duty an integrity for anyone no matter how much the client is paying. Granted, it doesn't mean, being overly excessively above the HSW standard.
When it comes to code, some of it really is a judgment call within the realm of interpretation of the codes by the building department officials. There is also times when you may have interpretive conflict and you will have to decide whether or not it is worth it for the project to challenge the building department officials interpretation or not. This is more art than science, in the art of "picking your battles". The best thing you can do is read what the requirements are and understanding what it is saying. Reading comprehension is important in this part of our professional work.
I'm a building designer, what I said, in this thread, is fundamentally true for me as it is for licensed architects as well.
Sometimes, you don't "know" (100%), so you may have to side in what is prudent and in the spirit of the codes and what they are trying to resolve. Some things are not clear cut. Some local zoning / design guidelines rules, are sometimes more politics than science or protecting HSW that you just deal with.
They all apply, except the ones that don't.
This video will explain exactly how to do it and where to find the code analysis plugin for revit.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
I agree. Best revit plug-in I have. Saved my butt a few times too.
That is be the best resource for code questions.
Hahah