Toucan Energy Holdings, owner of 50 solar farms in the UK, borrowed $700,000,000 (US$) from Thurrock Council to finance the firm's operations and went bankrupt when they could not make repayments. (Apparently a $150 million dollar payment has also gone missing)
You could envision maybe a wind farm in Scotland or a tidal plan in the same area but a solar farm in the UK, home of fog, rain, and dismal cloud and in the northern latitudes when sunshine in the winter is almost nonexistent on the rare cloud-free days? It makes no sense at all.
They could have done better with outdoor tanning salons.
ill_will
Nov 15, 22 9:42 am
Unless it was in Cornwall or something... yeah, I'm sort of guessing it wasn't started by someone native to the UK.
Wood Guy
Nov 15, 22 12:32 pm
Photovoltaics still produce energy under cloudy skies, and factoring in local conditions is part of every residential-scale system; there's no way it wasn't considered for 50 solar farms.
I just read several articles on this situation. None of them mentioned system efficiency or efficacy as an issue; all focused on the 138 million pounds that went missing and forced the founder to resign.
Chad Miller
Nov 15, 22 3:49 pm
Shhh WoodGuy. Don't let facts get in the way of Volunteer's BS.
b3tadine[sutures]
Nov 15, 22 4:55 pm
Come on, everyone knows that the reason the sun don't shine in GB is because Lizzy is in a box.
Chad Miller
Nov 15, 22 5:11 pm
Come on b3ta you're giving up all the secretes! Stop it!
Chad Miller
Nov 16, 22 5:28 pm
I'd be interested in seeing the embodied energy costs for PV's made in China.
Total energy production:
China: 7.62 trillion kWh 29% from coal
US : 4.11 trillion kWh 22% from coal
Chad Miller
Nov 16, 22 5:38 pm
That should be 56% of China's energy production is from coal, 29 % is natural gas.
Wood Guy
Nov 17, 22 2:33 pm
PV panels recover their up-front carbon emissions in 2-3 years, yet they produce energy for 30+ years.
Chad Miller
Nov 17, 22 3:06 pm
Is that recovery period based on the carbon offset the PV's provide vs coal energy production? Or is it an average of the various energy production methods used?
ill_will
Nov 17, 22 3:34 pm
I bet it's the average Chad, I have a feeling that embodied energy factors in too.
Wood Guy
Nov 17, 22 3:54 pm
It's complicated, because PV manufacturers are not tripping over themselves to release LCA data. This site explains more: https://circularecology.com/so....
The gist is that because there is not an abundance of data on manufacturing impact, and the cleanliness of the grid-supplied power the panels replace, the carbon footprint is usually expressed as a range. One year, two years, three years--somewhere in that range.
Ill_will, I'm not sure what you mean by "embodied energy factors in too." Of course it does; LCA covers the emissions associated with creating, using and disposing of a product or material.
Chad Miller
Nov 17, 22 4:01 pm
I assume the LCA also includes the emissions associated with transporting the product / material.
ill_will
Nov 17, 22 4:43 pm
Embodied energy correlates to fabrication, transportation, installation, and maintenance emissions. basically everything that needs to occur to ensure proper functionality.
ill_will
Nov 17, 22 4:46 pm
nevermind, i didn't read the rest of your comment @wood guy, you're right. my b
Wood Guy
Nov 17, 22 9:58 pm
LCAs are never exact but they are pretty thorough. If you haven’t studied them, I recommend it.
Chad Miller
Nov 18, 22 10:13 am
LCA's include: mining and synthesis of raw materials. Things like impacts to micro and macro ecosystems are handled by the AHJ and their environmental policies. I will say this: the LCA and negative impact on ecosystems are far greater for your smart phone and computer than a PV panel.
Chad Miller
Nov 18, 22 11:34 am
You don't need batteries unless you're off grid.
Wood Guy
Nov 18, 22 1:04 pm
Good thing petroleum extraction, processing and distribution is so benign.
Wood Guy
Nov 18, 22 3:22 pm
I'm greatly relieved that you aren't concerned about CO2. I will sleep better knowing that you have deemed it to not be a risk.
Wood Guy
Nov 18, 22 4:37 pm
Suffice to say that I have researched the topic in depth and have completely different views on the subject.
Richard Balkins
Nov 18, 22 10:54 pm
Agree but lighting conditions will make a difference. Cloudy days would generate less power per square area. More would be needed to meet a certain amount of power to generate. But that's just plain old facts. With enough photovoltaic cell area, you can generate power at night and collect power from radio waves (which are no different than light but at a different frequency that happens to be outside our visible spectrum. The question is about the cost benefits analysis and what options would be best return for every unit of investment capital.
Richard Balkins
Nov 18, 22 10:58 pm
If we want to reduce CO2, reduction of humans can be a start. Reduction of methane would also drop and less cows would help with that as well. CO2 benefits plants but we want it to be at that level where plants can make use of it. Increase in plants, algae, and such, and oxygen would also be increased as well.
Volunteer
Nov 19, 22 7:23 am
The Brits are now starting to prohibit installation of solar farms on productive farmland and to limit their installation to scrub land.
b3tadine[sutures]
Nov 19, 22 5:21 pm
Duh. Now that the Lizzy is dead, no more colonial expansion, and no one wants to sell shit to countries with canceled Queens.
Toucan Energy Holdings, owner of 50 solar farms in the UK, borrowed $700,000,000 (US$) from Thurrock Council to finance the firm's operations and went bankrupt when they could not make repayments. (Apparently a $150 million dollar payment has also gone missing)
You could envision maybe a wind farm in Scotland or a tidal plan in the same area but a solar farm in the UK, home of fog, rain, and dismal cloud and in the northern latitudes when sunshine in the winter is almost nonexistent on the rare cloud-free days? It makes no sense at all.
They could have done better with outdoor tanning salons.
Unless it was in Cornwall or something... yeah, I'm sort of guessing it wasn't started by someone native to the UK.
Photovoltaics still produce energy under cloudy skies, and factoring in local conditions is part of every residential-scale system; there's no way it wasn't considered for 50 solar farms.
I just read several articles on this situation. None of them mentioned system efficiency or efficacy as an issue; all focused on the 138 million pounds that went missing and forced the founder to resign.
Shhh WoodGuy. Don't let facts get in the way of Volunteer's BS.
Come on, everyone knows that the reason the sun don't shine in GB is because Lizzy is in a box.
Come on b3ta you're giving up all the secretes! Stop it!
I'd be interested in seeing the embodied energy costs for PV's made in China.
Total energy production:
China: 7.62 trillion kWh 29% from coal
US : 4.11 trillion kWh 22% from coal
That should be 56% of China's energy production is from coal, 29 % is natural gas.
PV panels recover their up-front carbon emissions in 2-3 years, yet they produce energy for 30+ years.
Is that recovery period based on the carbon offset the PV's provide vs coal energy production? Or is it an average of the various energy production methods used?
I bet it's the average Chad, I have a feeling that embodied energy factors in too.
It's complicated, because PV manufacturers are not tripping over themselves to release LCA data. This site explains more: https://circularecology.com/so....
And more info here: https://iea-pvps.org/wp-conten....
The gist is that because there is not an abundance of data on manufacturing impact, and the cleanliness of the grid-supplied power the panels replace, the carbon footprint is usually expressed as a range. One year, two years, three years--somewhere in that range.
Ill_will, I'm not sure what you mean by "embodied energy factors in too." Of course it does; LCA covers the emissions associated with creating, using and disposing of a product or material.
I assume the LCA also includes the emissions associated with transporting the product / material.
Embodied energy correlates to fabrication, transportation, installation, and maintenance emissions. basically everything that needs to occur to ensure proper functionality.
nevermind, i didn't read the rest of your comment @wood guy, you're right. my b
LCAs are never exact but they are pretty thorough. If you haven’t studied them, I recommend it.
LCA's include: mining and synthesis of raw materials. Things like impacts to micro and macro ecosystems are handled by the AHJ and their environmental policies. I will say this: the LCA and negative impact on ecosystems are far greater for your smart phone and computer than a PV panel.
You don't need batteries unless you're off grid.
Good thing petroleum extraction, processing and distribution is so benign.
I'm greatly relieved that you aren't concerned about CO2. I will sleep better knowing that you have deemed it to not be a risk.
Suffice to say that I have researched the topic in depth and have completely different views on the subject.
Agree but lighting conditions will make a difference. Cloudy days would generate less power per square area. More would be needed to meet a certain amount of power to generate. But that's just plain old facts. With enough photovoltaic cell area, you can generate power at night and collect power from radio waves (which are no different than light but at a different frequency that happens to be outside our visible spectrum. The question is about the cost benefits analysis and what options would be best return for every unit of investment capital.
If we want to reduce CO2, reduction of humans can be a start. Reduction of methane would also drop and less cows would help with that as well. CO2 benefits plants but we want it to be at that level where plants can make use of it. Increase in plants, algae, and such, and oxygen would also be increased as well.
The Brits are now starting to prohibit installation of solar farms on productive farmland and to limit their installation to scrub land.
Duh. Now that the Lizzy is dead, no more colonial expansion, and no one wants to sell shit to countries with canceled Queens.