I am having a lot of trouble finding answers online to the following scenario:
I am a licensed architect who works for a large firm. I had a friend reach out to me about some freelance work for a small restaurant chain (I have experience). Do I need to start a sole proprietorship in order to obtain professional liability insurance?
Does anyone have advice if I should start a sole proprietorship before I stamp?
I'm overall a little confused. It seems like I do not need a business license or insurance to stamp. I for sure will get insurance but hoping to skip the business aspect if not needed!
Thank you!
bowling_ball
Jul 28, 22 6:33 pm
While the insurance is more important for your liability, you likely can't charge without a business number. Where I am, the fee is $60 and takes a day or three. Just do it.
Richard Balkins
Jul 28, 22 9:11 pm
First, by definition, you using your real and true name practicing independently means you are a sole-proprietorship. However, I say do NOT be a sole-proprietorship. Form an LLC, if possible where you are but other business entity types that provided limited liability provision. The other thing I would suggest (even more important than the business type) is the professional liability insurance like what bowling_ball said. If possible, I would recommend doing BOTH. Limited Liability provisions provides for some protection that insurance doesn't necessarily address but the insurance likewise protects you in areas of issues that limited liability provision does not cover. You should do BOTH.
Examples of business types that provide limited liability provisions:
LLC, LLP, Corporations (S-corp and C-corp), and possibly a few others.
Sole proprietorships (regardless if you use an assumed business name), general partnership (likewise, regardless if you use an assumed business name) - DO NOT PROVIDE ANY LIMITED LIABILITY PROVISIONS. They are UNLIMITED LIABILITY which means, anything and everything you own can be seized to cover the costs if you lose a lawsuit case against you.
Richard Balkins
Jul 28, 22 9:14 pm
The profession is too damn litigious for you to go about without protecting yourself on all directions. Form an LLC, PLLC, LLP, PLLP, or corporation business type AND get the insurance as bowling_ball said. Yes, BOTH.
Depending on the State you practice, you may need to register the firm with the architectural licensing board not just getting the business license.
Bench
Jul 29, 22 7:44 am
Headsup, you should probably disregard any advice Rick wrote above.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 29, 22 10:25 am
Eggsactly. I've never had insurance, and you can get insurance after the fact to cover any past work. I agree that getting an llp, or llc, is probably a good idea however, at a minimum.
Chad Miller
Jul 29, 22 10:59 am
You didn't have insurance on projects? Dang. When I did freelance residential work I got liability insurance.
Richard Balkins
Jul 29, 22 11:15 am
Yes, you might be able to get insurance "after the fact" but that is a practice insurance companies are more likely to not continue or they'll hit you with some nasty premiums. The biggest position I was noting is to setup an LLC, LLP or corporation. I am trusting that if the OP is a licensed architect to how what type of business entities that he or she can set up for practicing architecture and other associated requirements. While you can get away without the insurance, but the world is increasingly more litigious and that is why I recommend both setting up an business entity that provides limited liability protection but also carrying professional liability insurance which bowling_ball earlier suggested. There are pitfalls in the protections of limited liability provisions and professional liability insurance is something that you may want to have. When starting out, I agree, at least starting an LLC or LLP and prey you don't do something dumb and stupid and get sued.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 29, 22 11:25 am
Chad, I don't do residential, if I do, I will definitely get insurance then. As for whatever dummy wrote above, blah, blah, blah....no.
Chad Miller
Jul 29, 22 12:57 pm
So you do freelance commercial work without insurance and only get it if you get sued?
Non Sequitur
Jul 29, 22 1:02 pm
insurance is a pre req up here for anyone submitting docs for permit/construction. Don't think I understand how one could function without it unless your work is purely for design.
thisisnotmyname
Jul 29, 22 1:27 pm
If you own anything you'd like to not have to sell to pay a judgement, you should get insurance. An experienced client will also expect you to have insurance.
proto
Jul 29, 22 1:31 pm
Re: no insurance. In the US residential market, there is already an allowance for unlicensed design work & so no insurance required either. This provision was for homeowners/homesteaders to be able to design/build themselves. This couples with construction law that puts the life safety code requirements on the builder. So, most liability for the house resides with the GC when contractor-built [or the homeowner when self-built]. As long as you're not specifically telling the builder to do something epically code-conflicting, the liability is pretty low for residential. It's not nothing, but it's pretty easy to get by in the early part of your residential career without it, then add it as your work volume creates a body of liability that could swamp you. And, licensed architects are likely to have the relatively simple life safety basics of home design pretty well covered
Richard Balkins
Jul 29, 22 3:31 pm
Proto, while that is more or less fairly true that you may get by but from onset from the beginning, you should plan to get professional liability (E&O) insurance sooner than later. You might get by on your first project but like you said, as your work volume creates a body of liability, you might want that. Additionally, there is different amounts of coverage. For small seldom work, maybe a smaller coverage amount but you will want to get yourself covered before long. This field is highly litigated and you will almost certainly be dragged into lawsuits and some may make tort/negligence claims against you and cause you trouble.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 29, 22 3:47 pm
E&O and General Liability are two different things.
b3tadine[sutures]
Jul 29, 22 3:52 pm
My projects are small enough, asks fees low enough, that my e&o exposure is limited. My need for liability, meh. I see residential clients much more litigious. Some rando slipping and falling, I'm not concerned about.
thisisnotmyname
Jul 29, 22 4:04 pm
Yes, and even if you didn't do anything wrong in a residential design, you still have to pay for a lawyer if some idiot residential client or builder decides to come at you with a frivolous claim. Residential clients often have wacky ideas about the law and plenty of lawyers will play along.
Richard Balkins
Jul 29, 22 4:05 pm
b3tadine, who is saying E&O and General Liability Insurance being the same? That is not what I am saying.
proto
Jul 29, 22 4:29 pm
IMHO, the greatest liability in exempted residential is in the expectations with the owner, not the construction. Not saying it's only that, but the greatest exposure to risk is in the other contractual party. [I am assuming that the people discussing here in the forum are competent pros (licensed or other) so usually conflict comes from a party that has a little crazy or unmeetable expectations]
Richard Balkins
Jul 29, 22 6:54 pm
Yep, exactly and that is stuff that can fall into what is covered in a PLI policy. LLC limited liability may play partly in mitigating risks associated with what you mentioned but limited liability has gaps in protecting you with such liability issues. This is why I recommend having both a professional liability insurance policy for addressing these issues but also using a business entity type that provided limited liability provisions. You may need other insurance policies at some point over the course of doing business. I have been looking into this stuff recently myself.
thisisnotmyname
Jul 29, 22 10:41 am
While I think insurance agents would sell a prof. liability policy to an individual, setting up a single member LLC or PC (check what your state allows for an architect) with its own federal tax id number is a quick, easy, and smart thing to do. Just about every US state will let you do it online by yourself.
The federal tax ID will save you from having to give out your social security number to clients when they want to send you 1099's in January.
proto
Jul 29, 22 11:57 am
Def set up the LLC if avail in your state
Also, get liability insurance for commercial work (ie, exposed to the public); [residential is not crucial esp if it is small or infrequent; there are caveats to that, but generally…]
If the sideline becomes a new primary biz, there are likely additional liability items to look into depending on your rollout/size/volume of work.
greenlander1
Oct 11, 22 7:48 pm
What insurance companies do you work with? And what level of coverage do you get?
Good and bad stories welcome. I'm looking for professional/ errors and omissions insurance for my owner's rep work which is very broad in scope (not just managing design/ construction but also financing/ leasing)
I have an LLC but really haven't had insurance since all the work was development related and not consulting/ PM type work.
bennyc
Oct 13, 22 2:11 pm
Before you form an entity (LLC or corporations or whatever). make sure you are compliant in your state, for example in New York State, corporations or LLC cant provide architectural service. You have to have a PLLC, or a P.C or a D.P.C. Same is true for interning, you cant get your IDP validated if you work in New York State and work for an LLC or corporation, it has to be a permissible form of practice per education law or authority controlling architecture profession.
Hello,
I am having a lot of trouble finding answers online to the following scenario:
I am a licensed architect who works for a large firm. I had a friend reach out to me about some freelance work for a small restaurant chain (I have experience). Do I need to start a sole proprietorship in order to obtain professional liability insurance?
Does anyone have advice if I should start a sole proprietorship before I stamp?
I'm overall a little confused. It seems like I do not need a business license or insurance to stamp. I for sure will get insurance but hoping to skip the business aspect if not needed!
Thank you!
While the insurance is more important for your liability, you likely can't charge without a business number. Where I am, the fee is $60 and takes a day or three. Just do it.
First, by definition, you using your real and true name practicing independently means you are a sole-proprietorship. However, I say do NOT be a sole-proprietorship. Form an LLC, if possible where you are but other business entity types that provided limited liability provision. The other thing I would suggest (even more important than the business type) is the professional liability insurance like what bowling_ball said. If possible, I would recommend doing BOTH. Limited Liability provisions provides for some protection that insurance doesn't necessarily address but the insurance likewise protects you in areas of issues that limited liability provision does not cover. You should do BOTH.
Examples of business types that provide limited liability provisions:
LLC, LLP, Corporations (S-corp and C-corp), and possibly a few others.
Sole proprietorships (regardless if you use an assumed business name), general partnership (likewise, regardless if you use an assumed business name) - DO NOT PROVIDE ANY LIMITED LIABILITY PROVISIONS. They are UNLIMITED LIABILITY which means, anything and everything you own can be seized to cover the costs if you lose a lawsuit case against you.
The profession is too damn litigious for you to go about without protecting yourself on all directions. Form an LLC, PLLC, LLP, PLLP, or corporation business type AND get the insurance as bowling_ball said. Yes, BOTH.
Depending on the State you practice, you may need to register the firm with the architectural licensing board not just getting the business license.
Headsup, you should probably disregard any advice Rick wrote above.
Eggsactly. I've never had insurance, and you can get insurance after the fact to cover any past work. I agree that getting an llp, or llc, is probably a good idea however, at a minimum.
You didn't have insurance on projects? Dang. When I did freelance residential work I got liability insurance.
Yes, you might be able to get insurance "after the fact" but that is a practice insurance companies are more likely to not continue or they'll hit you with some nasty premiums. The biggest position I was noting is to setup an LLC, LLP or corporation. I am trusting that if the OP is a licensed architect to how what type of business entities that he or she can set up for practicing architecture and other associated requirements. While you can get away without the insurance, but the world is increasingly more litigious and that is why I recommend both setting up an business entity that provides limited liability protection but also carrying professional liability insurance which bowling_ball earlier suggested. There are pitfalls in the protections of limited liability provisions and professional liability insurance is something that you may want to have. When starting out, I agree, at least starting an LLC or LLP and prey you don't do something dumb and stupid and get sued.
Chad, I don't do residential, if I do, I will definitely get insurance then. As for whatever dummy wrote above, blah, blah, blah....no.
So you do freelance commercial work without insurance and only get it if you get sued?
insurance is a pre req up here for anyone submitting docs for permit/construction. Don't think I understand how one could function without it unless your work is purely for design.
If you own anything you'd like to not have to sell to pay a judgement, you should get insurance. An experienced client will also expect you to have insurance.
Re: no insurance. In the US residential market, there is already an allowance for unlicensed design work & so no insurance required either. This provision was for homeowners/homesteaders to be able to design/build themselves. This couples with construction law that puts the life safety code requirements on the builder. So, most liability for the house resides with the GC when contractor-built [or the homeowner when self-built]. As long as you're not specifically telling the builder to do something epically code-conflicting, the liability is pretty low for residential. It's not nothing, but it's pretty easy to get by in the early part of your residential career without it, then add it as your work volume creates a body of liability that could swamp you. And, licensed architects are likely to have the relatively simple life safety basics of home design pretty well covered
Proto, while that is more or less fairly true that you may get by but from onset from the beginning, you should plan to get professional liability (E&O) insurance sooner than later. You might get by on your first project but like you said, as your work volume creates a body of liability, you might want that. Additionally, there is different amounts of coverage. For small seldom work, maybe a smaller coverage amount but you will want to get yourself covered before long. This field is highly litigated and you will almost certainly be dragged into lawsuits and some may make tort/negligence claims against you and cause you trouble.
E&O and General Liability are two different things.
My projects are small enough, asks fees low enough, that my e&o exposure is limited. My need for liability, meh. I see residential clients much more litigious. Some rando slipping and falling, I'm not concerned about.
Yes, and even if you didn't do anything wrong in a residential design, you still have to pay for a lawyer if some idiot residential client or builder decides to come at you with a frivolous claim. Residential clients often have wacky ideas about the law and plenty of lawyers will play along.
b3tadine, who is saying E&O and General Liability Insurance being the same? That is not what I am saying.
IMHO, the greatest liability in exempted residential is in the expectations with the owner, not the construction. Not saying it's only that, but the greatest exposure to risk is in the other contractual party. [I am assuming that the people discussing here in the forum are competent pros (licensed or other) so usually conflict comes from a party that has a little crazy or unmeetable expectations]
Yep, exactly and that is stuff that can fall into what is covered in a PLI policy. LLC limited liability may play partly in mitigating risks associated with what you mentioned but limited liability has gaps in protecting you with such liability issues. This is why I recommend having both a professional liability insurance policy for addressing these issues but also using a business entity type that provided limited liability provisions. You may need other insurance policies at some point over the course of doing business. I have been looking into this stuff recently myself.
While I think insurance agents would sell a prof. liability policy to an individual, setting up a single member LLC or PC (check what your state allows for an architect) with its own federal tax id number is a quick, easy, and smart thing to do. Just about every US state will let you do it online by yourself.
The federal tax ID will save you from having to give out your social security number to clients when they want to send you 1099's in January.
Def set up the LLC if avail in your state
Also, get liability insurance for commercial work (ie, exposed to the public); [residential is not crucial esp if it is small or infrequent; there are caveats to that, but generally…]
If the sideline becomes a new primary biz, there are likely additional liability items to look into depending on your rollout/size/volume of work.
What insurance companies do you work with? And what level of coverage do you get?
Good and bad stories welcome. I'm looking for professional/ errors and omissions insurance for my owner's rep work which is very broad in scope (not just managing design/ construction but also financing/ leasing)
I have an LLC but really haven't had insurance since all the work was development related and not consulting/ PM type work.
Before you form an entity (LLC or corporations or whatever). make sure you are compliant in your state, for example in New York State, corporations or LLC cant provide architectural service. You have to have a PLLC, or a P.C or a D.P.C. Same is true for interning, you cant get your IDP validated if you work in New York State and work for an LLC or corporation, it has to be a permissible form of practice per education law or authority controlling architecture profession.