Was just wondering how do you usually handle the energy analysis of your buildings. I have a project that I need to analyze and I have a few ideas on how to go about it.
I have seen people create their own analysis tools on grasshoper, I have seen other user Revit and the information in Revit families, I have seen others use government provided tools that are very primitive.
Moreover, how do you collect all the thermal resistance information of your building components necessary for analysis? For example the R-values and U-values?
Would love to learn more! Thank you.
whistler
Apr 7, 22 12:57 pm
Sub it out. But have a good working knowledge of assemblies / strategies and systems that work in our region.
cristiansotomayor
Apr 7, 22 1:05 pm
I think I might sub it out for future projects once I have become more familiar with the energy analysis process like you said.
I am looking to get my hands dirty with this project.
bowling_ball
Apr 8, 22 10:27 pm
Terrible idea. You'll never be as competent as professionals who do this every day. Unless you want to make that your professional priority, you'll just be spinning your wheels and offering no real added value for the investment in time and software it'll take to get good at it.
Chad Miller
Apr 7, 22 1:09 pm
We sub out the work. Typically this is because any energy analysis is also done with a level of LEED certification. As such we hire a LEED consultant.
For general IECC compliance we use ComCHECK.
cristiansotomayor
Apr 7, 22 1:42 pm
Huh, I see. Wouldn't hiring a LEED consultant be only for LEED certified projects?
Do you still sub the analysis out if the building does not require a LEED certification?
Chad Miller
Apr 7, 22 1:52 pm
We only do energy modeling if the project is LEED certified or if the owner wants it. In both cases we sub out the energy modeling. If no energy modeling is done we use ComCHECK to verify that we're complying with IECC. Typically we aim to exceed ComCHECK by 20%.
Non Sequitur
Apr 7, 22 1:30 pm
Totally sub it out... We do the basic leg-work and due diligence to make sure what we're proposing makes sense, but it's far more efficient to have it in the hands of a dedicated consultant instead of another task onto of my already tall pile. Last analysis we subbed out came back with two quotes: One for 9.5k and the other for 500loonies... on a 5ish million cottage.
cristiansotomayor
Apr 7, 22 1:45 pm
Seems like that is the consensus, at other firms that I worked that they did the analysis in house with some very rudimentary government provided tools.
cristiansotomayor
Apr 7, 22 1:44 pm
robhaw
Apr 8, 22 4:14 pm
This is an interesting thread. As mentioned I can understand that for reasons of LEED compliance this service is subbed out. However, is there not value in architecture practices performing in house energy modelling in the early design phase when investigating massing options?
proto
Apr 8, 22 4:47 pm
Value? Not really...it's essentially a rote performative drafting service with a learning curve (not steep but not insignificant). You could have an intern learn how to do it & be a resource for the office. But I would def hate to be the intern that got shoehorned into that square hole. Maybe find someone who really only aspires to be a draftsperson? That might be a better fit?
bowling_ball
Apr 8, 22 11:13 pm
It doesn't even take that. I made an Excel spreadsheet that allows me to input the various requirements and assembly details, and it spits out a value I need to meet for Code. An office administrator could do 90% of it.
proto
Apr 9, 22 11:30 am
“An office administrator could do 90% of it.” Really? Who’s doing the wall types, glazing area takeoffs in that scenario? No admin I’ve ever worked with touches the drawing programs…Who’s assigning performance values to the wall makeups? It’s entirely possible I’m thoroughly outdated on this, but that ^^ sounds overly simplistic. [I’m thinking about this in terms of designing/vetting non-prescriptive designs]
robhaw
Apr 9, 22 11:39 am
'It’s entirely possible I’m thoroughly outdated'. Please don't take any offence in this, but I personally think you are both outdated :)
bowling_ball
Apr 9, 22 3:18 pm
I'm not talking about modeling, I'm talking about early validation of the thermal resistance of assemblies. I never said the admin person did any design, either. You're making assumptions. And for the record I don't do that, but it's really, really easy. Somebody needs to start with the basics of the assembly, then you do area takeoffs, and then you plug those two into a spreadsheet. Mine literally tells you how much insulation you need (we only use continuous exterior, so this makes it a little simpler but not by much). So yeah, I can literally tell anybody who can turn on Excel, what the assemblies are, and the areas, and it spits out a number.
proto
Apr 9, 22 6:47 pm
Not assuming…that’s why I asked. And it sounds like you set up the xls; you do the takeoffs; you figure the assemblies. You may as well do the spreadsheet input too. At that point, it’s mostly done. (More like 10%, not 90%)
What I was referring to was using the energy modeling as a reiterative component of the design process to tune a building shell, often necessary because architects inevitably want more glazing than a prescriptive path might otherwise allow. That requires educated input to take a design, test it (for energy performance), and offer not just a pass/fail result, but options for how to achieve that pass/fail.
It seems we are talking past each other & robhaw too, who has some magical easy button apparently.
Almosthip
Apr 9, 22 2:12 pm
I have an excel spreadsheet. Our projects are not big enough to sub out. We have to meet the requirements of the national energy code of Canada 2017.
Hi Archinect,
Was just wondering how do you usually handle the energy analysis of your buildings. I have a project that I need to analyze and I have a few ideas on how to go about it.
I have seen people create their own analysis tools on grasshoper, I have seen other user Revit and the information in Revit families, I have seen others use government provided tools that are very primitive.
Moreover, how do you collect all the thermal resistance information of your building components necessary for analysis? For example the R-values and U-values?
Would love to learn more!
Thank you.
Sub it out. But have a good working knowledge of assemblies / strategies and systems that work in our region.
I think I might sub it out for future projects once I have become more familiar with the energy analysis process like you said. I am looking to get my hands dirty with this project.
Terrible idea. You'll never be as competent as professionals who do this every day. Unless you want to make that your professional priority, you'll just be spinning your wheels and offering no real added value for the investment in time and software it'll take to get good at it.
We sub out the work. Typically this is because any energy analysis is also done with a level of LEED certification. As such we hire a LEED consultant.
For general IECC compliance we use ComCHECK.
Huh, I see. Wouldn't hiring a LEED consultant be only for LEED certified projects? Do you still sub the analysis out if the building does not require a LEED certification?
We only do energy modeling if the project is LEED certified or if the owner wants it. In both cases we sub out the energy modeling. If no energy modeling is done we use ComCHECK to verify that we're complying with IECC. Typically we aim to exceed ComCHECK by 20%.
Totally sub it out... We do the basic leg-work and due diligence to make sure what we're proposing makes sense, but it's far more efficient to have it in the hands of a dedicated consultant instead of another task onto of my already tall pile. Last analysis we subbed out came back with two quotes: One for 9.5k and the other for 500loonies... on a 5ish million cottage.
Seems like that is the consensus, at other firms that I worked that they did the analysis in house with some very rudimentary government provided tools.
This is an interesting thread. As mentioned I can understand that for reasons of LEED compliance this service is subbed out. However, is there not value in architecture practices performing in house energy modelling in the early design phase when investigating massing options?
Value? Not really...it's essentially a rote performative drafting service with a learning curve (not steep but not insignificant). You could have an intern learn how to do it & be a resource for the office. But I would def hate to be the intern that got shoehorned into that square hole. Maybe find someone who really only aspires to be a draftsperson? That might be a better fit?
It doesn't even take that. I made an Excel spreadsheet that allows me to input the various requirements and assembly details, and it spits out a value I need to meet for Code. An office administrator could do 90% of it.
“An office administrator could do 90% of it.” Really? Who’s doing the wall types, glazing area takeoffs in that scenario? No admin I’ve ever worked with touches the drawing programs…Who’s assigning performance values to the wall makeups? It’s entirely possible I’m thoroughly outdated on this, but that ^^ sounds overly simplistic. [I’m thinking about this in terms of designing/vetting non-prescriptive designs]
'It’s entirely possible I’m thoroughly outdated'. Please don't take any offence in this, but I personally think you are both outdated :)
I'm not talking about modeling, I'm talking about early validation of the thermal resistance of assemblies. I never said the admin person did any design, either. You're making assumptions. And for the record I don't do that, but it's really, really easy. Somebody needs to start with the basics of the assembly, then you do area takeoffs, and then you plug those two into a spreadsheet. Mine literally tells you how much insulation you need (we only use continuous exterior, so this makes it a little simpler but not by much). So yeah, I can literally tell anybody who can turn on Excel, what the assemblies are, and the areas, and it spits out a number.
Not assuming…that’s why I asked. And it sounds like you set up the xls; you do the takeoffs; you figure the assemblies. You may as well do the spreadsheet input too. At that point, it’s mostly done. (More like 10%, not 90%)
What I was referring to was using the energy modeling as a reiterative component of the design process to tune a building shell, often necessary because architects inevitably want more glazing than a prescriptive path might otherwise allow. That requires educated input to take a design, test it (for energy performance), and offer not just a pass/fail result, but options for how to achieve that pass/fail.
It seems we are talking past each other & robhaw too, who has some magical easy button apparently.
I have an excel spreadsheet. Our projects are not big enough to sub out. We have to meet the requirements of the national energy code of Canada 2017.