I graduated with my B.Arch a few years back and I’ve been working in the profession ever since. I had begun to miss the creative control that I had in academic studios, so I applied to a couple top tier post-professional programs (Harvard’s M.Arch II and Columbia’s MS.AAD) and was recently accepted into both. I’m seriously considering both programs but I’m struggling with the idea of piling another 6 figures of student loan debt on top of what I’ve already got. But on the other hand I’m sure the connections associated with either degree would help further my career. I don’t know very many designers who have experience with these degrees so I’d really appreciate some perspective.
Thanks in advance!
Non Sequitur
Mar 17, 22 1:08 am
don’t. Your future self will thank you when you’re trying to catch up to your friends without massive student dept. It’s not an investment, it’s an anchor.
hellion
Mar 17, 22 9:33 am
Congratulations on your acceptance!
There've been interesting points made in this thread similar to your concerns that I think you should check out:
I was in a similar situation not too long ago, so I get the kind of crisis you face. Pursuing graduate school is a great space and period to fine-tune one's critical thinking and develop new tools and techniques, especially if you've been out of school for a while.
The first question you should ask yourself is, what will you do after getting that degree: rejoin the workforce, enter academia/pursue a Ph.D., or start your own office? Will accumulating debt afterward be manageable for you depending on which path you take? Does the school/program guarantee you opportunities and some level of "success" only it can grant that no other school/ program can, whichever step you pursue next?
But also ask yourself: what else can you do in that duration? Can creative control only be achieved in an academic setting? How different is exercising creative control in ivy, non-ivy, and non-academic settings, such as joining competitions or humanitarian design/non-profits or getting commissions?
It helps to know how to forecast what you're getting yourself into and if you will be at peace with what can unfold from that decision. Good luck!
square.
Mar 17, 22 10:24 am
absolutely do not take on that much debt; these degrees are in truth pretty worthless. they can help a bit with teaching credentials, but not much more, and mostly serve as cash cows for these institutions. most of them are just an extended studio sessions with no real research bona fides - i would consider a masters in another field that actually knows something about rigorous research before doing this quasi-academic degree.
i would only consider doing this if the debt was less than 20k, and even then the decision would be questionable.
i hear you about missing the creative agency, but this is a temporary fix that will only last as long as you are in the program, with significant financial implications (not only debt but also lost wages from not working during study); best to find other outlets that can pair with working in an office, like mentioned above.
Volunteer
Mar 17, 22 10:29 am
Why are you sure '"The connections associated with either degree would help further [your] degree"?
bowling_ball
Mar 17, 22 10:41 am
Terrible idea. If you were getting paid to go to school, that might be different.
You'll be taking on six figure debt for a temporary reprieve. If you go back to the private sector, you won't earn significantly more money and you won't have any more creative say than you do now, unless you open up your own practice.
You'd be wiser to take that $100k and just start your own firm. That way there's at least the potential that it makes you money. But I'll be honest, it doesn't sound like you have nearly enough real world experience to run a successful practice just yet. And take it from me, somebody who does run a firm - there's no guarantee that you'll have design autonomy anyway. You'll be too busy with all of the other stuff needed to keep a business running.
Take a breath. Don't go into debt for school. Maybe there's another way to get you closer to what you want, without taking on that burden.
Chad Miller
Mar 17, 22 11:06 am
LeCorboozeier-
Just to clarify - you already have an accredited degree correct?
If that is the case then I seriously doubt going back to grad school will further your career more than simply becoming licensed and being good at what you do. You certainly will NOT make more money by getting a masters - regardless where it is from.
If you want more creative freedom then I'd suggest doing design competitions on the side. Then use those designs in a revised portfolio and find a new firm that aligns more with what you want to do. That or start your own firm if you're able.
Good luck!
SlammingMiruvor
Mar 17, 22 11:33 am
Just go sign-up for an art class somewhere local. Pick a medium you're interested in and go do that instead of going back to architecture school.
Jay1122
Mar 18, 22 12:51 pm
A master degree title from Harvard is definitely a resume shine and a bragging point in conversation. Like one of those people that wears Harvard alumni sweat shirt all year round just so people would ask. The resume shine and academic portfolio(assuming you will work hard in the program) probably will increase your chance of getting into starchitect offices if that is your goal. Or going into some high design firms. Pay wise, no difference. But if you have to put on 6 figures debt, man oh man. That 6 figure money is probably going to be your house down payment. Just ask yourself, do you want bragging rights or your house down payment. It is just a personal choice.
reallynotmyname
Mar 18, 22 1:10 pm
I've certainly seen the leaders of corporate-type firms I've worked at steer the design work assignments towards the Harvard grads. While some rose to the occasion and some did not, the perception that Harvard produces amazing designers is real. It's still not worth the cost unless you can get significant financial aid.
natematt
Mar 18, 22 4:32 pm
It seems to me that the more architectural education experience you have the less friendly Harvard and some of the other “top” ivy’s are to you. 100k for a degree you don’t need at all… hell no. A one year post professional degree somewhere that you can afford, reasonable.
It seems like having a master’s degree is becoming the norm for the profession, but it’s complicated by the variety of paths. I got my education in the Midwest, where 4+2 is common among schools. I work in California, where 5 year degrees are common in schools, so a lot of people now get 1 year masters degree so they can have similar credentials on paper.
In hindsight, I wish I could have just gone to a 5 year program, saved myself the student loans and got on with my life as an architect. I enjoyed grad school, but I also had to do it.
kidomega
Mar 18, 22 11:33 pm
I think this unnecessary high reverence for ivies (that only they hype within themselves) clouds your purpose for wanting or needing to go to grad school. In some ways, the abuse and trauma within these institutions are just as lingering as the crippling debt you'll accumulate. There needs to be a reform in which society needs to stop putting these institutions on a pedestal as if they are the symbolic pinnacle of greatness in one's career trajectory.
Even if you decide to go to academia, where having an ivy degree has more advantages, it's not like you'll be able to pay it off within a shorter period (unless your parents will oblige). The value and prestige of that ivy degree (and the ego that comes with it) will fade over time as your loan's interest increases. That's another bureaucratic ladder you'll have to climb.
Agree with everyone. Go elsewhere or don't. All the master's programs are as standardized as the licensing, jobs, and salaries waiting for you afterward. You'd rather spend that time finding that "creative control" in new or different environments (that's not school). Take a chance on the lesser-known route.
I graduated with my B.Arch a few years back and I’ve been working in the profession ever since. I had begun to miss the creative control that I had in academic studios, so I applied to a couple top tier post-professional programs (Harvard’s M.Arch II and Columbia’s MS.AAD) and was recently accepted into both. I’m seriously considering both programs but I’m struggling with the idea of piling another 6 figures of student loan debt on top of what I’ve already got. But on the other hand I’m sure the connections associated with either degree would help further my career. I don’t know very many designers who have experience with these degrees so I’d really appreciate some perspective.
Thanks in advance!
don’t. Your future self will thank you when you’re trying to catch up to your friends without massive student dept. It’s not an investment, it’s an anchor.
Congratulations on your acceptance!
There've been interesting points made in this thread similar to your concerns that I think you should check out:
https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150301225/2022-mla-vibe-check/0#last
I was in a similar situation not too long ago, so I get the kind of crisis you face. Pursuing graduate school is a great space and period to fine-tune one's critical thinking and develop new tools and techniques, especially if you've been out of school for a while.
The first question you should ask yourself is, what will you do after getting that degree: rejoin the workforce, enter academia/pursue a Ph.D., or start your own office? Will accumulating debt afterward be manageable for you depending on which path you take? Does the school/program guarantee you opportunities and some level of "success" only it can grant that no other school/ program can, whichever step you pursue next?
But also ask yourself: what else can you do in that duration? Can creative control only be achieved in an academic setting? How different is exercising creative control in ivy, non-ivy, and non-academic settings, such as joining competitions or humanitarian design/non-profits or getting commissions?
It helps to know how to forecast what you're getting yourself into and if you will be at peace with what can unfold from that decision. Good luck!
absolutely do not take on that much debt; these degrees are in truth pretty worthless. they can help a bit with teaching credentials, but not much more, and mostly serve as cash cows for these institutions. most of them are just an extended studio sessions with no real research bona fides - i would consider a masters in another field that actually knows something about rigorous research before doing this quasi-academic degree.
i would only consider doing this if the debt was less than 20k, and even then the decision would be questionable.
i hear you about missing the creative agency, but this is a temporary fix that will only last as long as you are in the program, with significant financial implications (not only debt but also lost wages from not working during study); best to find other outlets that can pair with working in an office, like mentioned above.
Why are you sure '"The connections associated with either degree would help further [your] degree"?
Terrible idea. If you were getting paid to go to school, that might be different.
You'll be taking on six figure debt for a temporary reprieve. If you go back to the private sector, you won't earn significantly more money and you won't have any more creative say than you do now, unless you open up your own practice.
You'd be wiser to take that $100k and just start your own firm. That way there's at least the potential that it makes you money. But I'll be honest, it doesn't sound like you have nearly enough real world experience to run a successful practice just yet. And take it from me, somebody who does run a firm - there's no guarantee that you'll have design autonomy anyway. You'll be too busy with all of the other stuff needed to keep a business running.
Take a breath. Don't go into debt for school. Maybe there's another way to get you closer to what you want, without taking on that burden.
LeCorboozeier-
Just to clarify - you already have an accredited degree correct?
If that is the case then I seriously doubt going back to grad school will further your career more than simply becoming licensed and being good at what you do. You certainly will NOT make more money by getting a masters - regardless where it is from.
If you want more creative freedom then I'd suggest doing design competitions on the side. Then use those designs in a revised portfolio and find a new firm that aligns more with what you want to do. That or start your own firm if you're able.
Good luck!
Just go sign-up for an art class somewhere local. Pick a medium you're interested in and go do that instead of going back to architecture school.
A master degree title from Harvard is definitely a resume shine and a bragging point in conversation. Like one of those people that wears Harvard alumni sweat shirt all year round just so people would ask. The resume shine and academic portfolio(assuming you will work hard in the program) probably will increase your chance of getting into starchitect offices if that is your goal. Or going into some high design firms. Pay wise, no difference. But if you have to put on 6 figures debt, man oh man. That 6 figure money is probably going to be your house down payment. Just ask yourself, do you want bragging rights or your house down payment. It is just a personal choice.
I've certainly seen the leaders of corporate-type firms I've worked at steer the design work assignments towards the Harvard grads. While some rose to the occasion and some did not, the perception that Harvard produces amazing designers is real. It's still not worth the cost unless you can get significant financial aid.
It seems to me that the more architectural education experience you have the less friendly Harvard and some of the other “top” ivy’s are to you. 100k for a degree you don’t need at all… hell no. A one year post professional degree somewhere that you can afford, reasonable.
It seems like having a master’s degree is becoming the norm for the profession, but it’s complicated by the variety of paths. I got my education in the Midwest, where 4+2 is common among schools. I work in California, where 5 year degrees are common in schools, so a lot of people now get 1 year masters degree so they can have similar credentials on paper.
In hindsight, I wish I could have just gone to a 5 year program, saved myself the student loans and got on with my life as an architect. I enjoyed grad school, but I also had to do it.
I think this unnecessary high reverence for ivies (that only they hype within themselves) clouds your purpose for wanting or needing to go to grad school. In some ways, the abuse and trauma within these institutions are just as lingering as the crippling debt you'll accumulate. There needs to be a reform in which society needs to stop putting these institutions on a pedestal as if they are the symbolic pinnacle of greatness in one's career trajectory.
Even if you decide to go to academia, where having an ivy degree has more advantages, it's not like you'll be able to pay it off within a shorter period (unless your parents will oblige). The value and prestige of that ivy degree (and the ego that comes with it) will fade over time as your loan's interest increases. That's another bureaucratic ladder you'll have to climb.
Agree with everyone. Go elsewhere or don't. All the master's programs are as standardized as the licensing, jobs, and salaries waiting for you afterward. You'd rather spend that time finding that "creative control" in new or different environments (that's not school). Take a chance on the lesser-known route.