I know we are not in kindergartner, and these sort of problems should not happen in a postgraduate program, but I have reached a point where it's becoming quite difficult communicating with my teammates in the studio project.
I'm doing my M.Arch at the one of the UK schools, and in my particular studio I am the only non-Chinese student (I know I know, racism). Now, that would not bother me as much if any of them could, you know, communicate properly in English. English isn't my native tongue either, and honestly, most of the student, regardless of their background, don't speak it perfectly, but you can actually communicate with them. With the Chinese students, it seems like it's not only a language barrier, but also a cultural one: I can't tell them something in a direct manner, I never get a direct answer from them, I have no idea if they fully understand what I have just said or if they are just embarrassed to tell me they didn't understand. A lot of time after I say something there is a long quiet pause, and it's just driving me crazy. Often I just cut the conversation short and we decided that everyone should focus on whatever they are doing and we'll put everything together afterwards, so unsurprisingly, most of our presentation and workflow is incredibly uncoordinated.
It's also a problem for our tutor who is finding it difficult conveying his ideas to the studio. Being the only non-Chinese student, that makes me the spokesperson of the studio and I don't like that. If the tutor just get into class and asks simple things like how are we and how was our week, I just answer out of awkwardness. Because ALL of them stay quiet. it's an issue obviously during review, giving feedback and so on.
I will spare you the "I'm not racist, I have a lot of Asian friends" bs, but after 5 months working on a project with Chinese students, I feel cheated. The environment I'm in is not at all diverse, I feel very isolated and I just don't understand how do they get accepted if they don't know the language? it's one of the requirements. And I'm just curious as to why most of the Chinese students keep it themselves and don't engage with the rest of the group, and why come to the UK in the first place?
Would love to hear from current or former Chinese students to help me understand whether there is something on my part that I can do to make the communication better or I just need to wait patiently for this nightmare to be over.
Non Sequitur
Feb 7, 22 1:31 pm
TLDR because of racism.
RJ87
Feb 7, 22 2:04 pm
For what its worth, I found drawing / sketching while we talked to be helpful when trying to exchange ideas with students from China while in studio in the US. It seemed to work out ok when I was doing group projects in Hong Kong / Japan too.
Personal opinion, group projects suck though.
natematt
Feb 21, 22 5:12 pm
Group projects are almost entirely about team dynamic. I would say like 80% of the team projects I did in Arch school sucked. I would also say that the 80% were basically all from undergrad, which was not a bad school, but did not have nearly as good of students. My grad school had a much more consistently high quality cohort, and I think 3/4 team projects (actual number that I can think of) were really great experiences. Anyway, the profession is in many ways one big group project, and you will have a lot of difficult people to work with, so learning to deal with it is a good part of the education to have! :)
monosierra
Feb 7, 22 2:06 pm
It seems like an extreme case in your studio. If all but one is from the Mainland, then they're practically back in China as far as the studio environment goes. I can definitely see you being the outsider, even if they didn't go out of their way to ostracize you. Similar case with Koreans - probably the second largest group of international students from my experience - who are also quite cliquish. Students who do not find themselves surrounded by their countrymen tend to interact more with other students, if only because they have to.
How's the quality of their work? Do they know their **** or are they mostly second-generation wealthy kids dicking around in the UK? Most Mainland students I've encountered are dead serious about their work, smart, hardworking, and will not let a lack of a common tongue stand in the way of collaborative work. They're here to learn. Sure, they might mostly hang out with their countrymen outside the studio but it's all business inside. From your description, it seems like the cohort in your studio is plain uninterested in their work - or at least group work, which is always terrible LMAO.
Communicating via visuals should help for a start - sketch out ideas, model some rough stuff. Short of informing your instructor, being blunt might be frowned upon to some but I think if you're being respectful and result-focused, laying out the communication problem to them in plain language could help. Unless they really don't GAF about their grades and just want a shiny British degree to take home.
randomised
Feb 7, 22 2:34 pm
Learn Mandarin?
randomised
Feb 7, 22 2:57 pm
Kidding, group projects suck by default. Take it up with your tutor or higher up that you can’t get out of your education what you’re putting into it or signed up for…must be frustrating for all, including the other students! They came to experience a UK top education and they are stuck with the people they flew in with, think about how they must feel cheated even more!
midlander
Feb 7, 22 5:02 pm
1. try making friends with individuals instead regarding them as a singular group. it's unlikely they all know each other or share a common idea for doing the work. find your one or two friends in the group and keep focused working well with them only.
2. don't be the spokesman for the instructor. this isn't your job and letting the tutor regard you this way will make your life miserable. if he can't communicate with the class, that's his problem. really important, don't let the tutor delegate this to you, or you'll be seen as responsible for coordinating the work of the group. which you can't do.
3. group projects for university students are idiotic and always lead to poor results, regardless of the quality of students in the group. groups need leaders and hierarchy, and a team sharing a vision; a studio provides none. don't even try to make it work, just choose your piece and do it as you want to.
any tutor who assigns a group project is fully responsible for coordinating the tasks and making sure everything comes together smoothly. they won't do this though and nothing will come together. this is why there are no good group projects in school.
midlander
Feb 7, 22 5:07 pm
add number 4. the communication problems you're describing are common to all group projects given to a team of strangers. normal people don't feel comfortable speaking for a group they don't know or care about. no one smart wants to take charge and be responsible for a team they don't know or trust.
sillybilly
Feb 7, 22 10:10 pm
I worked in Japan for a bit. Japan and China are very different culturally, but generally East Asian culture is passive when it comes to communication. They rarely take credit for their own work, they are slow to accept praise or compliments, and ironically in your case, they believe in a collective pursuit.
With that being said, although their English may not be the best, I can guarantee you that the receptive English language is very strong and they probably understand everything that you're talking about. Also, you're lucky enough to be in a profession that's a universal language. You communicate through drawing and sketching, showing precedents and diagrams. Find a commonality and use that as a means of communication.
A lot of students in architecture school hate working in groups because they're not used to sharing ideas and delegating work in a group setting. The majority of the time they have been cooped up in their own little design world. Group projects are actually a great time to learn how to delegate work so that you're not overworking yourself, sharing ideas, and collaborating like you do in the real world.
Finally, you are all grown ups. Architecture is a very international profession and you will meet people from all over the world. Common ground needs to be found. If you feel they are not fairly contributing or they are putting explicit roadblocks in collaboration, then let your teammates know that. I guarantee you they will understand what you're talking about once you start talking about grades and getting instructors or administration involved. Talk to your instructor or the head of the program if things escalate. You are paying for this education.
justavisual
Feb 8, 22 2:38 am
I cant say for sure but I figured that yes means yes and 'yes,yes' means no and/or not sure (without admitting that they didn't understand). Group work sucks...also find a better studio or class for next semester. That school is just lining its pockets with higher fees if there are no locals...
Also sketch more, then its on paper as a draft - outlined.
zonker
Feb 8, 22 12:50 pm
Most of my co-workers for the last 7 years are Asian. I've found the best wat to communicate is via sketching, Bluebeam. Revit, Rhino, sketchup. anything visual
randomised
Feb 8, 22 1:51 pm
Pro-tip: works also for communicating with non-Asian co-workers…
tduds
Feb 8, 22 2:12 pm
I once facilitated a design meeting with zero language overlap (I speak very little Mandarin, and most of my teammates spoke little to no English) using photos, whiteboards, and trace. It worked very well. Architects speak the language of drawings. Use it.
KtyW
Feb 21, 22 2:46 pm
As a Chinese native, I would say this is most likely because of the language barrier. Many Chinese students you see in a UK master's program are not capable of communicating in English in real life. I have to admit that most of my countrymen speak poor English that sometimes even I can't understand them. Your teammates make you the spokesperson by default because they are aware that they can't speak as well as you do. They feel grateful that you speak for them (maybe they won't tell you but trust me, they do).
It seems, in your case, they are very reluctant to talk to you. This could happen because some of them would rather have you being a free rider or a mascot than having to communicate with you. If you want to free ride, do it, they won't be mad at you. If you don't, be efficient and try to split the work into parts and assign them to each person. If they keep quiet, it means they don't disagree with you so you can do whatever you want.
I know we are not in kindergartner, and these sort of problems should not happen in a postgraduate program, but I have reached a point where it's becoming quite difficult communicating with my teammates in the studio project.
I'm doing my M.Arch at the one of the UK schools, and in my particular studio I am the only non-Chinese student (I know I know, racism). Now, that would not bother me as much if any of them could, you know, communicate properly in English. English isn't my native tongue either, and honestly, most of the student, regardless of their background, don't speak it perfectly, but you can actually communicate with them. With the Chinese students, it seems like it's not only a language barrier, but also a cultural one: I can't tell them something in a direct manner, I never get a direct answer from them, I have no idea if they fully understand what I have just said or if they are just embarrassed to tell me they didn't understand. A lot of time after I say something there is a long quiet pause, and it's just driving me crazy. Often I just cut the conversation short and we decided that everyone should focus on whatever they are doing and we'll put everything together afterwards, so unsurprisingly, most of our presentation and workflow is incredibly uncoordinated.
It's also a problem for our tutor who is finding it difficult conveying his ideas to the studio. Being the only non-Chinese student, that makes me the spokesperson of the studio and I don't like that. If the tutor just get into class and asks simple things like how are we and how was our week, I just answer out of awkwardness. Because ALL of them stay quiet. it's an issue obviously during review, giving feedback and so on.
I will spare you the "I'm not racist, I have a lot of Asian friends" bs, but after 5 months working on a project with Chinese students, I feel cheated. The environment I'm in is not at all diverse, I feel very isolated and I just don't understand how do they get accepted if they don't know the language? it's one of the requirements. And I'm just curious as to why most of the Chinese students keep it themselves and don't engage with the rest of the group, and why come to the UK in the first place?
Would love to hear from current or former Chinese students to help me understand whether there is something on my part that I can do to make the communication better or I just need to wait patiently for this nightmare to be over.
TLDR because of racism.
For what its worth, I found drawing / sketching while we talked to be helpful when trying to exchange ideas with students from China while in studio in the US. It seemed to work out ok when I was doing group projects in Hong Kong / Japan too.
Personal opinion, group projects suck though.
Group projects are almost entirely about team dynamic. I would say like 80% of the team projects I did in Arch school sucked. I would also say that the 80% were basically all from undergrad, which was not a bad school, but did not have nearly as good of students. My grad school had a much more consistently high quality cohort, and I think 3/4 team projects (actual number that I can think of) were really great experiences. Anyway, the profession is in many ways one big group project, and you will have a lot of difficult people to work with, so learning to deal with it is a good part of the education to have! :)
It seems like an extreme case in your studio. If all but one is from the Mainland, then they're practically back in China as far as the studio environment goes. I can definitely see you being the outsider, even if they didn't go out of their way to ostracize you. Similar case with Koreans - probably the second largest group of international students from my experience - who are also quite cliquish. Students who do not find themselves surrounded by their countrymen tend to interact more with other students, if only because they have to.
How's the quality of their work? Do they know their **** or are they mostly second-generation wealthy kids dicking around in the UK? Most Mainland students I've encountered are dead serious about their work, smart, hardworking, and will not let a lack of a common tongue stand in the way of collaborative work. They're here to learn. Sure, they might mostly hang out with their countrymen outside the studio but it's all business inside. From your description, it seems like the cohort in your studio is plain uninterested in their work - or at least group work, which is always terrible LMAO.
Communicating via visuals should help for a start - sketch out ideas, model some rough stuff. Short of informing your instructor, being blunt might be frowned upon to some but I think if you're being respectful and result-focused, laying out the communication problem to them in plain language could help. Unless they really don't GAF about their grades and just want a shiny British degree to take home.
Learn Mandarin?
Kidding, group projects suck by default. Take it up with your tutor or higher up that you can’t get out of your education what you’re putting into it or signed up for…must be frustrating for all, including the other students! They came to experience a UK top education and they are stuck with the people they flew in with, think about how they must feel cheated even more!
1. try making friends with individuals instead regarding them as a singular group. it's unlikely they all know each other or share a common idea for doing the work. find your one or two friends in the group and keep focused working well with them only.
2. don't be the spokesman for the instructor. this isn't your job and letting the tutor regard you this way will make your life miserable. if he can't communicate with the class, that's his problem. really important, don't let the tutor delegate this to you, or you'll be seen as responsible for coordinating the work of the group. which you can't do.
3. group projects for university students are idiotic and always lead to poor results, regardless of the quality of students in the group. groups need leaders and hierarchy, and a team sharing a vision; a studio provides none. don't even try to make it work, just choose your piece and do it as you want to.
any tutor who assigns a group project is fully responsible for coordinating the tasks and making sure everything comes together smoothly. they won't do this though and nothing will come together. this is why there are no good group projects in school.
add number 4. the communication problems you're describing are common to all group projects given to a team of strangers. normal people don't feel comfortable speaking for a group they don't know or care about. no one smart wants to take charge and be responsible for a team they don't know or trust.
I worked in Japan for a bit. Japan and China are very different culturally, but generally East Asian culture is passive when it comes to communication. They rarely take credit for their own work, they are slow to accept praise or compliments, and ironically in your case, they believe in a collective pursuit.
With that being said, although their English may not be the best, I can guarantee you that the receptive English language is very strong and they probably understand everything that you're talking about. Also, you're lucky enough to be in a profession that's a universal language. You communicate through drawing and sketching, showing precedents and diagrams. Find a commonality and use that as a means of communication.
A lot of students in architecture school hate working in groups because they're not used to sharing ideas and delegating work in a group setting. The majority of the time they have been cooped up in their own little design world. Group projects are actually a great time to learn how to delegate work so that you're not overworking yourself, sharing ideas, and collaborating like you do in the real world.
Finally, you are all grown ups. Architecture is a very international profession and you will meet people from all over the world. Common ground needs to be found. If you feel they are not fairly contributing or they are putting explicit roadblocks in collaboration, then let your teammates know that. I guarantee you they will understand what you're talking about once you start talking about grades and getting instructors or administration involved. Talk to your instructor or the head of the program if things escalate. You are paying for this education.
I cant say for sure but I figured that yes means yes and 'yes,yes' means no and/or not sure (without admitting that they didn't understand). Group work sucks...also find a better studio or class for next semester. That school is just lining its pockets with higher fees if there are no locals...
Also sketch more, then its on paper as a draft - outlined.
Most of my co-workers for the last 7 years are Asian. I've found the best wat to communicate is via sketching, Bluebeam. Revit, Rhino, sketchup. anything visual
Pro-tip: works also for communicating with non-Asian co-workers…
I once facilitated a design meeting with zero language overlap (I speak very little Mandarin, and most of my teammates spoke little to no English) using photos, whiteboards, and trace. It worked very well. Architects speak the language of drawings. Use it.
As a Chinese native, I would say this is most likely because of the language barrier. Many Chinese students you see in a UK master's program are not capable of communicating in English in real life. I have to admit that most of my countrymen speak poor English that sometimes even I can't understand them. Your teammates make you the spokesperson by default because they are aware that they can't speak as well as you do. They feel grateful that you speak for them (maybe they won't tell you but trust me, they do).
It seems, in your case, they are very reluctant to talk to you. This could happen because some of them would rather have you being a free rider or a mascot than having to communicate with you. If you want to free ride, do it, they won't be mad at you. If you don't, be efficient and try to split the work into parts and assign them to each person. If they keep quiet, it means they don't disagree with you so you can do whatever you want.