Hi. I am a 16 year-old student who is thinking about studying a construction- related degree. What is the difference between the role of the architect and the role of the façade engineer? Who chooses facade materials? Who produces facade plans? I mean, what plans of the façade are produced by the architect and What plans of the facade are produced by the façade engineer? For instance, who could have drawn this kind of plan? Thank you so much.
rcz1001
Dec 12, 21 8:41 am
At least where I am from, there isn't really a profession called facade engineer. I suppose some companies might have a specialist job position where someone does only that but it''s not a title of a profession/occupation as much as its a title made up and used by some companies for a role in their corporate structure that is focused entirely on facade.
proto
Dec 12, 21 12:17 pm
OP, reach out to the NYC office of these guys for a conversation on the industry. Explain who you are & your interest.
There are a number of companies that do this sort of consulting for design architects. Because of the nature of their specialty, they get to work on very high profile projects because those are the sorts of projects that can afford their services.
proto
Dec 12, 21 11:22 pm
To answer some of what you actually asked in the OP… an architect (or a team of architects) designs the building (wholistic systems & small details). When a building becomes complicated, an architect (or team) may ask a specialist consultant to assist with experienced guidance in that field (in this case: high tech facades).
The architect will likely select the materials and general systems & the facade consultant will help make the vision realistic. They will communicate with each other with drawings. The architect will likely document the details of the system once the facade consultant has figured the minutiae out. Complex unitized or prefabricated facades often have such consultants.
natematt
Dec 13, 21 2:14 am
It's a pretty low percent of projects that end up using a facade consultant though. As you said, just the complex or unique. Most facades are designed by the architect or in collaboration with the manufactures and/or subcontractors.
In my experience, a lot of these people are coming out of the architecture industry anyway, like a lot of specializations. I'm curious if anyone else has other experiences?
Everyday Architect
Dec 13, 21 11:50 am
Most of the facade (building envelope) consultants we work with look at the weatherproofing, testing, etc. but don't really get involved with the engineering. All very important, but that's not what I think of as a facade engineer. Consultant, yes. Engineer, not exactly ... but it can be a gray area. Instead, I'd look at people working at the custom unitized curtainwall manufacturers who are actually engineering the curtainwall.
Ironically, Ricky says where he's from there really aren't facade engineers and my first thought was to a few of the people I met when I visited the offices of Benson Industries in Portland. I looked a few of them up just now and they had a variety of backgrounds and degrees in architecture, structural engineering, and mechanical engineering. Some licensed, some not. So yeah, it's not exactly a separate discipline in engineering like structural, mechanical, electrical, civil, etc., but definitely a profession one could specialize in if they wanted to.
To answer the OP a little more fully: The architect is going to choose the materials and produce design and construction drawings showing the overall design and aesthetic (and would draw the type of section detail you posted). The architect (or building owner) may hire/consult with building envelope consultants to help them understand the right type of performance requirements needed for the building and to make sure the design is capable of meeting those requirements ... but they usually don't actually figure it all out. Instead, the general contractor will hire a subcontractor that specializes in the facade materials who will typically fully engineer and produce shop drawings for approval and then order materials, fabricate, and install the facade meeting the architect's specifications.
luvu
Dec 14, 21 5:13 am
@EA
rcz1001
Dec 14, 21 11:22 am
My point is, it's more a specialization and job position title then a "professional title". You're basically an interdisciplinary "engineer" that specializes in facade / building envelope. It's not really a discipline of its own but an application of one or more disciplines for a specific focus area. "engineer" is really the only title per se and even that, it's not really something you get a license or a recognized discipline by NCEES or whatever board. You employ the engineering sciences from multiple disciplines. In a way, you're probably an "architectural engineer" by discipline with a focus or specialization on facade and digging into that specific area and the science more deeper than some that are more generalists within a discipline or multiple disciplines. That is how I see it. It's more a job position title and of course companies will break up the work so any one person will be focusing more and more on very specific function and roles as they have more and more employees. Job titles are not professional titles. If you are licensed as an engineer, your professional title is that of professional engineer (or structural engineer) as it's indicated on your license or stamp. When a profession is regulated by licensure, the professional title is regulated and issued by a regulatory body (licensing board).
I don't want to belabor the point any further other than it is how I see it more as. EA makes an interesting point that I will concur as having some validity to it. It's a nuance and interpretation matter. So no need to argue over. Facade engineer would likely be something subject to engineering licensure under the title & practice of engineering licensure laws.
rcz1001
Dec 14, 21 11:28 am
I would say and agree it is a professional niche/specialization that one can pursue.
luvu
Dec 14, 21 5:28 am
@EA Facade engineering/building envelope is a discipline in its own right in the region I'm practicing particularity in commercial, public buildings ( mid to large scale ). Facade engineers are part of the design team ( structure, services etc.. ) since day one and they are required to produce documentations for tender with specifications that meet all the design intent. They also need to provide/sign off a design warranty to the client ( 30-40 years typically ) ...so on so forth.
Post-tendering, most of the times , they are still on board to help out/guide facade contractor ( shopdrawings review/approval) making sure the design intent is followed through in construction.
In Europe, a facade engineering course is a post-grad study , there is also a building technology course in undergrad level.
Everyday Architect
Dec 14, 21 1:12 pm
Good info. I'm not really sure where the OP is from. I do know where Rick is from so I chuckled when I saw his comment and thought I could provide a different perspective that might be more helpful to the OP.
rcz1001
Dec 14, 21 2:28 pm
Thank you for that EA.
Sam Apoc
Dec 14, 21 2:01 pm
Proto's explanation above covers it well from what I have seen.
In addition to the firm proto linked above, here's another good example worth looking at:
Another link you may find interesting. Journal of Facade Design and Engineering. Facade engineering may be a good specialty, but I'd probably recommend genetic design / engineering, which will likely be much more lucrative in the near future. I'm talking about metaversal designer AI cloud babies. Lungs that can operate in a post-nuclear world. Stomachs that can go months without food. Manipulating people's thoughts with electromagnetic devices. Don't miss out on far more interesting careers.
Hi. I am a 16 year-old student who is thinking about studying a construction- related degree. What is the difference between the role of the architect and the role of the façade engineer? Who chooses facade materials? Who produces facade plans? I mean, what plans of the façade are produced by the architect and What plans of the facade are produced by the façade engineer? For instance, who could have drawn this kind of plan? Thank you so much.
At least where I am from, there isn't really a profession called facade engineer. I suppose some companies might have a specialist job position where someone does only that but it''s not a title of a profession/occupation as much as its a title made up and used by some companies for a role in their corporate structure that is focused entirely on facade.
OP, reach out to the NYC office of these guys for a conversation on the industry. Explain who you are & your interest.
https://heintges.com/
There are a number of companies that do this sort of consulting for design architects. Because of the nature of their specialty, they get to work on very high profile projects because those are the sorts of projects that can afford their services.
To answer some of what you actually asked in the OP… an architect (or a team of architects) designs the building (wholistic systems & small details). When a building becomes complicated, an architect (or team) may ask a specialist consultant to assist with experienced guidance in that field (in this case: high tech facades).
The architect will likely select the materials and general systems & the facade consultant will help make the vision realistic. They will communicate with each other with drawings. The architect will likely document the details of the system once the facade consultant has figured the minutiae out. Complex unitized or prefabricated facades often have such consultants.
It's a pretty low percent of projects that end up using a facade consultant though. As you said, just the complex or unique. Most facades are designed by the architect or in collaboration with the manufactures and/or subcontractors.
In my experience, a lot of these people are coming out of the architecture industry anyway, like a lot of specializations. I'm curious if anyone else has other experiences?
Most of the facade (building envelope) consultants we work with look at the weatherproofing, testing, etc. but don't really get involved with the engineering. All very important, but that's not what I think of as a facade engineer. Consultant, yes. Engineer, not exactly ... but it can be a gray area. Instead, I'd look at people working at the custom unitized curtainwall manufacturers who are actually engineering the curtainwall.
Ironically, Ricky says where he's from there really aren't facade engineers and my first thought was to a few of the people I met when I visited the offices of Benson Industries in Portland. I looked a few of them up just now and they had a variety of backgrounds and degrees in architecture, structural engineering, and mechanical engineering. Some licensed, some not. So yeah, it's not exactly a separate discipline in engineering like structural, mechanical, electrical, civil, etc., but definitely a profession one could specialize in if they wanted to.
To answer the OP a little more fully: The architect is going to choose the materials and produce design and construction drawings showing the overall design and aesthetic (and would draw the type of section detail you posted). The architect (or building owner) may hire/consult with building envelope consultants to help them understand the right type of performance requirements needed for the building and to make sure the design is capable of meeting those requirements ... but they usually don't actually figure it all out. Instead, the general contractor will hire a subcontractor that specializes in the facade materials who will typically fully engineer and produce shop drawings for approval and then order materials, fabricate, and install the facade meeting the architect's specifications.
@EA
My point is, it's more a specialization and job position title then a "professional title". You're basically an interdisciplinary "engineer" that specializes in facade / building envelope. It's not really a discipline of its own but an application of one or more disciplines for a specific focus area. "engineer" is really the only title per se and even that, it's not really something you get a license or a recognized discipline by NCEES or whatever board. You employ the engineering sciences from multiple disciplines. In a way, you're probably an "architectural engineer" by discipline with a focus or specialization on facade and digging into that specific area and the science more deeper than some that are more generalists within a discipline or multiple disciplines. That is how I see it. It's more a job position title and of course companies will break up the work so any one person will be focusing more and more on very specific function and roles as they have more and more employees. Job titles are not professional titles. If you are licensed as an engineer, your professional title is that of professional engineer (or structural engineer) as it's indicated on your license or stamp. When a profession is regulated by licensure, the professional title is regulated and issued by a regulatory body (licensing board).
I don't want to belabor the point any further other than it is how I see it more as. EA makes an interesting point that I will concur as having some validity to it. It's a nuance and interpretation matter. So no need to argue over. Facade engineer would likely be something subject to engineering licensure under the title & practice of engineering licensure laws.
I would say and agree it is a professional niche/specialization that one can pursue.
@EA
Facade engineering/building envelope is a discipline in its own
right in the region I'm practicing particularity in commercial, public
buildings ( mid to large scale ). Facade engineers are part of the
design team ( structure, services etc.. ) since day one and they are
required to produce documentations for tender with specifications that
meet all the design intent. They also need to provide/sign off a design
warranty to the client ( 30-40 years typically ) ...so on so forth.
Post-tendering, most of the times , they are still on board to help out/guide facade contractor ( shopdrawings review/approval) making sure the design intent is followed through in construction.
In Europe, a facade engineering course is a post-grad study , there is also a building technology course in undergrad level.
Good info. I'm not really sure where the OP is from. I do know where Rick is from so I chuckled when I saw his comment and thought I could provide a different perspective that might be more helpful to the OP.
Thank you for that EA.
Proto's explanation above covers it well from what I have seen.
In addition to the firm proto linked above, here's another good example worth looking at:
https://www.frontinc.com/profi...
Another link you may find interesting. Journal of Facade Design and Engineering. Facade engineering may be a good specialty, but I'd probably recommend genetic design / engineering, which will likely be much more lucrative in the near future. I'm talking about metaversal designer AI cloud babies. Lungs that can operate in a post-nuclear world. Stomachs that can go months without food. Manipulating people's thoughts with electromagnetic devices. Don't miss out on far more interesting careers.