I have been working for an architecture office for five years now. There is a thing that questions my mind. At this office when we are at concept design phase and development we change the plan layouts 10-15 times minimum. (My boss asks for it ...or the clients).
But Even when I do something which is functional and what the client wants, my boss will still change it ,not completely but with quite alot of changes. Is my work and time not valued? Or do i have to guess what the boss dreamt of while he was sleeping? Also my colleagues feel the same. But for me maybe its more. I dont think I'm that bad as an architect neither a genius. Alot of times our projects get rejected from getting a building permit because my boss ignores some rules or hopes he can convince the town planning, when he is really ignoring rules. So again i have to redo all the work from scratch (and not being the one who did the mistake.) Also to keep in mind repetition is the no 1 negative at any job even if u dont work overtime... I would like to know how u guys work at ur offices. Let me know how you would handle this
SneakyPete
Sep 10, 21 11:52 am
This is frightfully common. The way I deal with it is reminding the boss the direct effects of the boss' choices. More overtime, more hours billed so less profit, violations of code, ignoring the client, etc.
I figure if it gets me fired I didn't want to work there anyhow. Usually I get thanked. It's a fucked up world.
Archi880
Sep 10, 21 12:01 pm
If i knew this from ages ago i wouldnt follow architecture! Its depressive and makes u feel worthless. Especially if its coming from your boss. Imagine I hate this and I still don't do overtime
Chad Miller
Sep 10, 21 12:07 pm
It may be worthwhile to talk to your boss about this. Also be sure to have a few interviews with other firms and possible other offers set up before you speak with your boss. That way if you don't like the response they give you can move onto a better firm.
Archi880
Sep 10, 21 12:16 pm
I dont think something will change. I might be accused of being lazy who knows haha. Also Im searching for jobs but no luck yet, only been to interviews which is something I guess
Chad Miller
Sep 10, 21 12:24 pm
It sounds like it's time to move on . . .
Archi880
Sep 10, 21 12:27 pm
But what if everywhere is the same or with other cons? SneakyPete above said this is frightfully common
SneakyPete
Sep 10, 21 2:19 pm
Sneakypete is speaking from Sneakypete's experience. Sneakypete would love to be wrong.
BabbleBeautiful
Sep 10, 21 6:44 pm
My experience can prove you wrong ;-)
newguy
Sep 10, 21 12:28 pm
There's practical advice people can give you on how to mitigate and minimize the adverse affects and how to present your ideas to your boss as if it was their own idea and blah blah blah.....
But first ask yourself if you are still learning things as an architect. If you are, then absorb as much as you can. If however, you are just learning office politics and the art of backstreet driving and how to manage management, well, then you have to ask yourself if you want to keep doing that. Because at the end of the day, you need to find an office that values you as a designer, not a draftsman.
Archi880
Sep 10, 21 1:31 pm
I am not learning much that's true.Although firms that actually make good designs usually want to hire people with equal skills so i guess i am fucked up
reallynotmyname
Sep 10, 21 1:42 pm
If you are in the US, just get another job now. This is the best architectural employment market in decades.
Archi880
Sep 11, 21 4:14 am
Sadly I am not there haha
BabbleBeautiful
Sep 10, 21 1:40 pm
Design is a fickle beast.
newguy
Sep 10, 21 6:03 pm
"Yeah I know what you'd like to do. You'd like to find the guy who did it, rip his still beating heart out of his chest and hold it in front of his face so he can see how black it is before he dies"
BabbleBeautiful
Sep 10, 21 1:44 pm
In all seriousness, your boss seems like an incompetent architect. His/her behavior is not uncommon, but it's not the norm.
Archi880
Sep 10, 21 2:13 pm
Haha well he is. I guess I am only there because I haven't found new job yet. Architects are probably the worst bosses
SneakyPete
Sep 10, 21 2:21 pm
We have an industry where the people who own firms are Architects first and business owners (entrepreneurs) second. They get into business so they can see their ideas manifest, often without consideration of the massive amounts of work it takes to run a successful business. This conflict of interest has consequences.
BabbleBeautiful
Sep 10, 21 6:41 pm
The deeper I get, eg. the more experience I gain, in the industry the more I realize how "business" and "Architecture" are inextricably linked to be sustainably successful. Specially as a small office.
SneakyPete
Sep 10, 21 7:18 pm
You sound like you have your head on straight.
monosierra
Sep 10, 21 2:46 pm
There's a lot of client management skills that designers, even senior ones, lack. Managing client expectations, and guiding them productively while protecting one's own bottom line is critical. Too often, architects fail to zero in on the clients' objectives, kowtowing to every demand in an unsystematic manner - resulting in countless manhours spent producing numerous design iterations in an fruitless attempt to nail said objective. Ironically, this is the kind of waste that all those AI/big data salespeople are pitching their wares for - produce 1000 iterations in 10 minutes!
Archi880
Sep 10, 21 3:46 pm
Yeah although those who work with data get paid well at least... Are u happy at ur job?how is it?
midlander
Sep 10, 21 8:40 pm
don't overthink this. at the early stage of your career the most important thing is working for someone you respect who does work you are proud of. if those conditions are met, it is worth some pain to learn useful work skills. otherwise though what's the point, struggle while observing how to do sloppy work badly?
if you feel like your boss is fucking things up and uninterested in learning how to improve, then you aren't going to get to fix this for him. probably your coworkers have already thought of this! have you asked any slightly more senior employees what they think about the office?
don't waste energy trying to make this work. it's already making you question your self worth. that's a super serious sign - you need to get out now! do whatever you need to to get a job working for someone you respect and like.
midlander
Sep 10, 21 8:45 pm
btw i recently decides to leave my job in similar circumstances, except that i have enough experience to recognize what i see. it's such a huge relief once you make the decision to disengage from a work culture you don't respect.
Archi880
Sep 11, 21 4:11 am
I will have patience i guess, theres a right time for opportunities to arrive. And yes you are right, I will ask other people's opinions -mostly senior like you said and see what they say about all this.
Jian Huang
Sep 19, 21 2:03 am
Firstly, those who are at higher position always try to give advice to change the design, especially when it is about personal taste. Sometimes, it is good for design. Sometimes, it is only a trick of showing they are “smarter” than you. As an associate, I am not against it, because there is nothing wrong. It is all based on who can make the decision. Then let them make the decision.
While when their advice violate certainty/ established knowledge, I always point it out politely, such as the length of dead end corridor, whether the sun shading device will work efficiently, etc.
Besides, in fact, some managers have very bad management skills. They cannot manage the project, human resource, schedule and coordination smoothly. Working with those bad managers make you experience rework, delay, working overtime, misleading, being unappreciated, etc. So staying away from them is good to mental and physical health. But your situation is tricky, because the person makes you suffer is your boss. It might be really hard to avoid working with boss.
,,,,
Sep 19, 21 9:20 am
It has been my experience that it is a silly, stupid game played by lesser talents.
My advice is to do your own work on the side. Then it doesn't matter what they do.
I have been working for an architecture office for five years now. There is a thing that questions my mind. At this office when we are at concept design phase and development we change the plan layouts 10-15 times minimum. (My boss asks for it ...or the clients).
But Even when I do something which is functional and what the client wants, my boss will still change it ,not completely but with quite alot of changes. Is my work and time not valued? Or do i have to guess what the boss dreamt of while he was sleeping? Also my colleagues feel the same. But for me maybe its more. I dont think I'm that bad as an architect neither a genius. Alot of times our projects get rejected from getting a building permit because my boss ignores some rules or hopes he can convince the town planning, when he is really ignoring rules. So again i have to redo all the work from scratch (and not being the one who did the mistake.) Also to keep in mind repetition is the no 1 negative at any job even if u dont work overtime... I would like to know how u guys work at ur offices. Let me know how you would handle this
This is frightfully common. The way I deal with it is reminding the boss the direct effects of the boss' choices. More overtime, more hours billed so less profit, violations of code, ignoring the client, etc.
I figure if it gets me fired I didn't want to work there anyhow. Usually I get thanked. It's a fucked up world.
If i knew this from ages ago i wouldnt follow architecture! Its depressive and makes u feel worthless. Especially if its coming from your boss. Imagine I hate this and I still don't do overtime
It may be worthwhile to talk to your boss about this. Also be sure to have a few interviews with other firms and possible other offers set up before you speak with your boss. That way if you don't like the response they give you can move onto a better firm.
I dont think something will change. I might be accused of being lazy who knows haha. Also Im searching for jobs but no luck yet, only been to interviews which is something I guess
It sounds like it's time to move on . . .
But what if everywhere is the same or with other cons? SneakyPete above said this is frightfully common
Sneakypete is speaking from Sneakypete's experience. Sneakypete would love to be wrong.
My experience can prove you wrong ;-)
There's practical advice people can give you on how to mitigate and minimize the adverse affects and how to present your ideas to your boss as if it was their own idea and blah blah blah.....
But first ask yourself if you are still learning things as an architect. If you are, then absorb as much as you can. If however, you are just learning office politics and the art of backstreet driving and how to manage management, well, then you have to ask yourself if you want to keep doing that. Because at the end of the day, you need to find an office that values you as a designer, not a draftsman.
I am not learning much that's true.Although firms that actually make good designs usually want to hire people with equal skills so i guess i am fucked up
If you are in the US, just get another job now. This is the best architectural employment market in decades.
Sadly I am not there haha
Design is a fickle beast.
"Yeah I know what you'd like to do. You'd like to find the guy who did
it, rip his still beating heart out of his chest and hold it in front of
his face so he can see how black it is before he dies"
In all seriousness, your boss seems like an incompetent architect. His/her behavior is not uncommon, but it's not the norm.
Haha well he is. I guess I am only there because I haven't found new job yet. Architects are probably the worst bosses
We have an industry where the people who own firms are Architects first and business owners (entrepreneurs) second. They get into business so they can see their ideas manifest, often without consideration of the massive amounts of work it takes to run a successful business. This conflict of interest has consequences.
The deeper I get, eg. the more experience I gain, in the industry the more I realize how "business" and "Architecture" are inextricably linked to be sustainably successful. Specially as a small office.
You sound like you have your head on straight.
There's a lot of client management skills that designers, even senior ones, lack. Managing client expectations, and guiding them productively while protecting one's own bottom line is critical. Too often, architects fail to zero in on the clients' objectives, kowtowing to every demand in an unsystematic manner - resulting in countless manhours spent producing numerous design iterations in an fruitless attempt to nail said objective. Ironically, this is the kind of waste that all those AI/big data salespeople are pitching their wares for - produce 1000 iterations in 10 minutes!
Yeah although those who work with data get paid well at least... Are u happy at ur job?how is it?
don't overthink this. at the early stage of your career the most important thing is working for someone you respect who does work you are proud of. if those conditions are met, it is worth some pain to learn useful work skills. otherwise though what's the point, struggle while observing how to do sloppy work badly?
if you feel like your boss is fucking things up and uninterested in learning how to improve, then you aren't going to get to fix this for him. probably your coworkers have already thought of this! have you asked any slightly more senior employees what they think about the office?
don't waste energy trying to make this work. it's already making you question your self worth. that's a super serious sign - you need to get out now! do whatever you need to to get a job working for someone you respect and like.
btw i recently decides to leave my job in similar circumstances, except that i have enough experience to recognize what i see. it's such a huge relief once you make the decision to disengage from a work culture you don't respect.
I will have patience i guess, theres a right time for opportunities to arrive. And yes you are right, I will ask other people's opinions -mostly senior like you said and see what they say about all this.
Firstly, those who are at higher position always try to give advice to change the design, especially when it is about personal taste. Sometimes, it is good for design. Sometimes, it is only a trick of showing they are “smarter” than you. As an associate, I am not against it, because there is nothing wrong. It is all based on who can make the decision. Then let them make the decision.
While when their advice violate certainty/ established knowledge, I always point it out politely, such as the length of dead end corridor, whether the sun shading device will work efficiently, etc.
Besides, in fact, some managers have very bad management skills. They cannot manage the project, human resource, schedule and coordination smoothly. Working with those bad managers make you experience rework, delay, working overtime, misleading, being unappreciated, etc. So staying away from them is good to mental and physical health. But your situation is tricky, because the person makes you suffer is your boss. It might be really hard to avoid working with boss.
It has been my experience that it is a silly, stupid game played by lesser talents.
My advice is to do your own work on the side. Then it doesn't matter what they do.
Read Bing, Stanley. Throwing the Elephant: Zen and the Art of Managing Up. HarperCollins, 2004.