As I crank through CDs for several homes and renovations using Autocad LT (with help from SketchUp), I kick myself repeatedly for not switching to a BIM platform long ago. I have researched the options ad infinitum but have not been able to commit to a new program.
A couple of close friends who are architects use Vectorworks and say it's great. Other architect friends use Archicad or Revit. I know a few people using Softplan or Chief Architect. Some architects even produce CDs on SketchUp but after 20 years of using it I am pretty confident I want to keep SketchUp for auxiliary work only.
My work is all residential, mostly renovations to homes built between 1790 and 2010, so lots of different building assemblies. I also design new homes but they are high-performance and have few conventional details, and I tend to try new approaches on every project.
I mostly work alone and sub out some things but I'm working toward being able to bring on help of some sort.
My budget and free time are both pretty tight. I'm old enough that learning new programs does not always come easily, but young enough that I grew up with computers and video games so I'm not quite a dinosaur either.
So anyway... thoughts on Vectorworks, or other programs?
tduds
Apr 26, 21 3:06 pm
My wife (landscape designer) uses Vectorworks for her work and she loves it. From what I've seen it looks like a great program for residential design. It seems pretty intuitive (she often models complex architectural geometry in base plans before even starting her designs, and they look good!), and not over-bloated in the way that some other BIM programs can get. Personally I think Revit doesn't downscale very smoothly. It's obviously intended for large projects and it works best on large projects (and it costs as much as a large project...). That's just my personal opinion.
In the past I've used Archicad for single family residential and found it relatively intuitive. I think that + Vectorworks seem to be more popular with people who work on smaller scale design.
Wood Guy
Apr 26, 21 3:25 pm
Thanks, that's great feedback. Your thoughts on Revit match most of what I've heard, though some seem to like it for residential work too--including an architect helping me now on a couple of projects. But I'm definitely leaning toward Vectorworks or Archicad.
tduds
Apr 26, 21 3:29 pm
If I were to jump onto a small residential project tomorrow, I'd definitely do it in Revit. But that's only because I'm so fluent in Revit at this point that it's not worth the re-learning to switch. If I were starting from zero, I'd probably try to learn VW.
whistler
Apr 26, 21 6:03 pm
We have been on MiniCAD-Vectorworks for close to 30 years. WE typically handle Large scale planning projects, Medium size MF residential and SF Residential Projects and it is fine. The larger architectural projects can bog down but some strategic file management helps. It's been a super stable program for us and only very rarely have we felt we needed something that has a bit more horsepower, but if we do it's likely a project we aren't suited for.
Wood Guy
Apr 28, 21 9:00 am
Good to know, thank you. I'll never do commercial work and the houses and renovations I design are relatively modest, but with some non-standard details. Just a bit more automation than I have with Autocad LT would go a long way.
proto
Apr 26, 21 6:41 pm
I'm on Acad LT and am about to launch into Archicad. Primarily single family residential work w/ a couple small commercial projects a year. Similar stuff to you, wood guy. Plan is to dig into Archicad with a ground-up house project that is already through SD. Last ground-up house we did was 60 sheets so I'm hopeful going to a BIM model will simplify the documentation effort. We do a lot of remodel so I will be the guinea pig to figure out how we do those reasonably moving forward. My partner is perfectly happy with last century's drafting standard. So, I'll be the "CAD manager" next year when we get her to transition...oof
Wood Guy
Apr 28, 21 9:05 am
Many of my competitors/colleagues doing high performance homes here in New England use Archicad. I've had one or two sales/training sessions with Graphisoft/Archicad and it definitely seems like a good program. What I've gleaned is that it's very helpful, or possibly necessary, to invest in or work with someone who already has templates and families set up. (Not sure if those are the right words...) Vectorworks seems similar but with a shorter/cheaper learning curve, but maybe not quite as efficient once everything is set up. I could be wrong.
Good luck with your change! 60 sheets would be a big project for me; I've only done a few in that range--most of mine are 20-30 sheets, though I'm trying to get to a higher level of detailing so maybe add another 10 sheets.
proto
Apr 28, 21 3:35 pm
google "shoegnome archicad template"...supposedly it's a free template for residential types...not yet sure if it will be useful as I don't understand everything, lol
yeah, our typical "whole house remodel" isn't 60 shts, but we do get detailed on stuff so the coordination & model-based drawing production will help manage the complexity
prior to acad lt, we used vectorworks, but, at the time, it was a little clunky and foreign for our consultants so we switched to be more in line with them. We actually did like it, but, ultimately, I don't think that was such a critical connection for our work.
bowling_ball
Apr 26, 21 8:30 pm
I used to use VW for small and medium scale commercial work. It's great for some things and terrible for others unless you're a modeling wizard. For instance, there's a lot of line-drawing rework that typically must happen in elevations to clearly graphically represent what you want. Then again I've never used Revit so it could be comparatively amazing and I'd have no idea.
Wood Guy
Apr 28, 21 9:06 am
Interesting. One of my architect friends using it has said that he does a lot of linework, but implied that with more training he could have more automation. I'm hoping to reduce the amount of post-production work required; I can do that now, it just doesn't seem efficient.
Jaetten
Apr 28, 21 5:32 am
Vectorworks is a good program. We use it, albeit an old version (along with AutoCAD and SKU) and recently trialled the 2021 version. It's a bit clunky and drafting 2D is not as fast as AutoCAD (no command line, not a program issue but a user one).
The modelling side is very similar to SKU. You can model by creating shapes or from drawing lines and making them into volumes. You can also draw by wall, door, window etc and after drawing, change the wall build-up with ease.
You typically draw everything by floor, with each floor having its own floor, wall and door layers etc and you create viewports and sheets like AutoCAD. Detailing in VW is better than Revit, but not as good as AutoCAD.
Pricing, the 'Architect' level is a fraction more then Revit LT (which is naff, no model-in-place, no walls by face etc, no conceptual mass, no local rendering). You get a lot more value with Vectorworks, and it's 3D modelling is much more intuitive than Revit.
Wood Guy
Apr 28, 21 9:10 am
Does "no command line" mean that you can't use keyboard shortcuts, but have to use menus? That's not a dealbreaker for me; even with Autocad I often use menus, but I'm fast about it. But keyboard shortcuts are usually quicker.
The last drafting/design program I tried to learn was CADWORK, supposedly second only to Autodesk worldwide but used in NA mainly by timber-framing and panelizing companies. We did a 3-day intensive training but those of us over 40 who were used to Autocad and SketchUp had a hard time with it--the entire thought process is very different from what we're used to. If Vectorworks is similar to SketchUp in some ways, that's a good thing.
Jaetten
Apr 28, 21 10:18 am
Sorry, I should have been a little more clear. By 'command line' I mean the text box control function, whereas in AutoCAD you can operate the program with text based commands, should you choose. If you don't know the command for something it's usually the word for the function etc. line is line, circle is circle. In VW, you still have shortcuts and hotkeys etc but they follow a different convention using either a letter or number.
I've not heard of CADWORK so cannot comment. If you can use sketchup or Revit, VW won't be a problem.
Wood Guy
Apr 28, 21 10:58 am
Thanks for the additional info. I have never used Revit but I've been using SketchUp regularly for 20 years, probably approaching 10K hours on it.
SneakyPete
Mar 21, 22 6:20 pm
Vectorworks shortcuts never made sense for me at the time, but having used Revit for a while I think the two letter shortcuts are similar.
randomised
Apr 28, 21 8:11 am
I learnt VW at my first internship after my bachelor's degree and used it on and off for years, in uni and professionally, and would easily recommend it based on the projects you're doing. The learning curve is really not that steep and drawings don't require much post-production to look good.
Wood Guy
Apr 28, 21 9:11 am
Thanks, that's encouraging! What do you use now?
randomised
Apr 28, 21 11:01 am
Mostly ArchiCAD with a little Rhino on the side...
spickney2000
Apr 28, 21 9:04 am
VW is what I used through uni then AutoCad when I worked as that was what most were using. VW is an easy program to use but it is limited in some things but gives excellent results. As mentioned before it's great for smaller projects, I always found it easier to do presentations with it (especially when adding picutures etc.)
Wood Guy
Apr 28, 21 10:57 am
Easy is good, for me anyway. What are some of the limitations you found, other than project size? Are there things you prefer Autocad for?
randomised
Apr 28, 21 11:10 am
Fun fact, Studio Daniel Libeskind uses VW too!
archinine
Apr 29, 21 3:56 pm
I’ve used VW, regular CAD and Revit. Revit is king, and out of the box has a ton of families to help get you started. Any of these programs is going to require an amount of time to get templates and such set up. It’s true Revit is great for big projects, however it is also great for high volume of small projects. Not sure how custom / repetitive your work is, but if you’ve developed some particular details or styles over the years, and you use them frequently, Revit can reduce your product setup time substantially. Again once you get your templates set up. In terms of transitioning from CAD, you can hit the ground walking (not running) by importing CAD details to Revit without having to put a stop on all billable work to devote to setup. Then as you do more projects slowly transition out all the cad stuff into native Revit objects. One of my favorite parts of Revit is dynamic detail components. Once you get the hang of it, it makes drawing unique details very quick, and dare I say almost as fun as on paper. But it will be a long road to get to that level of dexterity.
Wood Guy
Apr 29, 21 7:16 pm
Thanks, good feedback. My work is pretty varied--though I'm trying to do more standardized details, I do a lot of home renovations with oddball existing conditions and new homes with unique assemblies, and not a large volume.
Allan Teta
Jan 1, 22 1:45 pm
We are currently in a very similar situation, and I was curious where you landed. I am torn between Archicad and Vectorworks. I am not a REVIT fan. We do both architecture and interiors for custom residential and multi family projects…with a few commercial. We also utilize Enscape for rendering. I would appreciate any current feedback
SneakyPete
Mar 21, 22 6:21 pm
Why are you not a Revit fan, lack of experience or due to specific features / issues?
igormolochevski
Mar 21, 22 9:41 am
I am a conceptual 3d artist/Spatial Designer. I am currently mostly working in Rhino and Archicad. I am curious about new version of Vectorworks, has any one worked with the last version of Vectorworks, it is supposed have very interesting futures for working with masses....
proto
Mar 21, 22 11:20 am
Free
30 day demo will give you the answers you seek..
As I crank through CDs for several homes and renovations using Autocad LT (with help from SketchUp), I kick myself repeatedly for not switching to a BIM platform long ago. I have researched the options ad infinitum but have not been able to commit to a new program.
A couple of close friends who are architects use Vectorworks and say it's great. Other architect friends use Archicad or Revit. I know a few people using Softplan or Chief Architect. Some architects even produce CDs on SketchUp but after 20 years of using it I am pretty confident I want to keep SketchUp for auxiliary work only.
My work is all residential, mostly renovations to homes built between 1790 and 2010, so lots of different building assemblies. I also design new homes but they are high-performance and have few conventional details, and I tend to try new approaches on every project.
I mostly work alone and sub out some things but I'm working toward being able to bring on help of some sort.
My budget and free time are both pretty tight. I'm old enough that learning new programs does not always come easily, but young enough that I grew up with computers and video games so I'm not quite a dinosaur either.
So anyway... thoughts on Vectorworks, or other programs?
My wife (landscape designer) uses Vectorworks for her work and she loves it. From what I've seen it looks like a great program for residential design. It seems pretty intuitive (she often models complex architectural geometry in base plans before even starting her designs, and they look good!), and not over-bloated in the way that some other BIM programs can get. Personally I think Revit doesn't downscale very smoothly. It's obviously intended for large projects and it works best on large projects (and it costs as much as a large project...). That's just my personal opinion.
In the past I've used Archicad for single family residential and found it relatively intuitive. I think that + Vectorworks seem to be more popular with people who work on smaller scale design.
Thanks, that's great feedback. Your thoughts on Revit match most of what I've heard, though some seem to like it for residential work too--including an architect helping me now on a couple of projects. But I'm definitely leaning toward Vectorworks or Archicad.
If I were to jump onto a small residential project tomorrow, I'd definitely do it in Revit. But that's only because I'm so fluent in Revit at this point that it's not worth the re-learning to switch. If I were starting from zero, I'd probably try to learn VW.
We have been on MiniCAD-Vectorworks for close to 30 years. WE typically handle Large scale planning projects, Medium size MF residential and SF Residential Projects and it is fine. The larger architectural projects can bog down but some strategic file management helps. It's been a super stable program for us and only very rarely have we felt we needed something that has a bit more horsepower, but if we do it's likely a project we aren't suited for.
Good to know, thank you. I'll never do commercial work and the houses and renovations I design are relatively modest, but with some non-standard details. Just a bit more automation than I have with Autocad LT would go a long way.
I'm on Acad LT and am about to launch into Archicad. Primarily single family residential work w/ a couple small commercial projects a year. Similar stuff to you, wood guy. Plan is to dig into Archicad with a ground-up house project that is already through SD. Last ground-up house we did was 60 sheets so I'm hopeful going to a BIM model will simplify the documentation effort. We do a lot of remodel so I will be the guinea pig to figure out how we do those reasonably moving forward. My partner is perfectly happy with last century's drafting standard. So, I'll be the "CAD manager" next year when we get her to transition...oof
Many of my competitors/colleagues doing high performance homes here in New England use Archicad. I've had one or two sales/training sessions with Graphisoft/Archicad and it definitely seems like a good program. What I've gleaned is that it's very helpful, or possibly necessary, to invest in or work with someone who already has templates and families set up. (Not sure if those are the right words...) Vectorworks seems similar but with a shorter/cheaper learning curve, but maybe not quite as efficient once everything is set up. I could be wrong.
Good luck with your change! 60 sheets would be a big project for me; I've only done a few in that range--most of mine are 20-30 sheets, though I'm trying to get to a higher level of detailing so maybe add another 10 sheets.
google "shoegnome archicad template"...supposedly it's a free template for residential types...not yet sure if it will be useful as I don't understand everything, lol
yeah, our typical "whole house remodel" isn't 60 shts, but we do get detailed on stuff so the coordination & model-based drawing production will help manage the complexity
prior to acad lt, we used vectorworks, but, at the time, it was a little clunky and foreign for our consultants so we switched to be more in line with them. We actually did like it, but, ultimately, I don't think that was such a critical connection for our work.
I used to use VW for small and medium scale commercial work. It's great for some things and terrible for others unless you're a modeling wizard. For instance, there's a lot of line-drawing rework that typically must happen in elevations to clearly graphically represent what you want. Then again I've never used Revit so it could be comparatively amazing and I'd have no idea.
Interesting. One of my architect friends using it has said that he does a lot of linework, but implied that with more training he could have more automation. I'm hoping to reduce the amount of post-production work required; I can do that now, it just doesn't seem efficient.
Vectorworks is a good program. We use it, albeit an old version (along with AutoCAD and SKU) and recently trialled the 2021 version. It's a bit clunky and drafting 2D is not as fast as AutoCAD (no command line, not a program issue but a user one).
The modelling side is very similar to SKU. You can model by creating shapes or from drawing lines and making them into volumes. You can also draw by wall, door, window etc and after drawing, change the wall build-up with ease.
You typically draw everything by floor, with each floor having its own floor, wall and door layers etc and you create viewports and sheets like AutoCAD. Detailing in VW is better than Revit, but not as good as AutoCAD.
Pricing, the 'Architect' level is a fraction more then Revit LT (which is naff, no model-in-place, no walls by face etc, no conceptual mass, no local rendering). You get a lot more value with Vectorworks, and it's 3D modelling is much more intuitive than Revit.
Does "no command line" mean that you can't use keyboard shortcuts, but have to use menus? That's not a dealbreaker for me; even with Autocad I often use menus, but I'm fast about it. But keyboard shortcuts are usually quicker.
The last drafting/design program I tried to learn was CADWORK, supposedly second only to Autodesk worldwide but used in NA mainly by timber-framing and panelizing companies. We did a 3-day intensive training but those of us over 40 who were used to Autocad and SketchUp had a hard time with it--the entire thought process is very different from what we're used to. If Vectorworks is similar to SketchUp in some ways, that's a good thing.
Sorry, I should have been a little more clear. By 'command line' I mean the text box control function, whereas in AutoCAD you can operate the program with text based commands, should you choose. If you don't know the command for something it's usually the word for the function etc. line is line, circle is circle. In VW, you still have shortcuts and hotkeys etc but they follow a different convention using either a letter or number.
I've not heard of CADWORK so cannot comment. If you can use sketchup or Revit, VW won't be a problem.
Thanks for the additional info. I have never used Revit but I've been using SketchUp regularly for 20 years, probably approaching 10K hours on it.
Vectorworks shortcuts never made sense for me at the time, but having used Revit for a while I think the two letter shortcuts are similar.
I learnt VW at my first internship after my bachelor's degree and used it on and off for years, in uni and professionally, and would easily recommend it based on the projects you're doing. The learning curve is really not that steep and drawings don't require much post-production to look good.
Thanks, that's encouraging! What do you use now?
Mostly ArchiCAD with a little Rhino on the side...
VW is what I used through uni then AutoCad when I worked as that was what most were using. VW is an easy program to use but it is limited in some things but gives excellent results. As mentioned before it's great for smaller projects, I always found it easier to do presentations with it (especially when adding picutures etc.)
Easy is good, for me anyway. What are some of the limitations you found, other than project size? Are there things you prefer Autocad for?
Fun fact, Studio Daniel Libeskind uses VW too!
I’ve used VW, regular CAD and Revit. Revit is king, and out of the box has a ton of families to help get you started. Any of these programs is going to require an amount of time to get templates and such set up. It’s true Revit is great for big projects, however it is also great for high volume of small projects. Not sure how custom / repetitive your work is, but if you’ve developed some particular details or styles over the years, and you use them frequently, Revit can reduce your product setup time substantially. Again once you get your templates set up. In terms of transitioning from CAD, you can hit the ground walking (not running) by importing CAD details to Revit without having to put a stop on all billable work to devote to setup. Then as you do more projects slowly transition out all the cad stuff into native Revit objects. One of my favorite parts of Revit is dynamic detail components. Once you get the hang of it, it makes drawing unique details very quick, and dare I say almost as fun as on paper. But it will be a long road to get to that level of dexterity.
Thanks, good feedback. My work is pretty varied--though I'm trying to do more standardized details, I do a lot of home renovations with oddball existing conditions and new homes with unique assemblies, and not a large volume.
We are currently in a very similar situation, and I was curious where you landed. I am torn between Archicad and Vectorworks. I am not a REVIT fan. We do both architecture and interiors for custom residential and multi family projects…with a few commercial. We also utilize Enscape for rendering. I would appreciate any current feedback
Why are you not a Revit fan, lack of experience or due to specific features / issues?
I am a conceptual 3d artist/Spatial Designer. I am currently mostly working in Rhino and Archicad. I am curious about new version of Vectorworks, has any one worked with the last version of Vectorworks, it is supposed have very interesting futures for working with masses....
Free 30 day demo will give you the answers you seek..