We started our Barn Renovation journey over a year ago now,
and after 4 building relationships with supposedly qualified people who advised
us that they could help us through the process of Planning Permission, Listed Building
Consent and Building Regulations we have wasted ridiculous amounts of money,
time and the will to live. We are now no further forward than when we started this
project, with less funds and at times limited passion, for what was supposed to
be our dream home. Listed Buildings has requested 1:10 drawings of windows,
roof lights etc, which out current PM had decided is not within their capability’s,
and we really do not know where to turn or who to trust. Being complete novices
we have replied and trusted in the experience and qualifications of professionals,
none of which have delivered on expectation never mind promises, yet been happy
to take our money and leave us abandoned. Can anyone help me understand what we
have planning/permission for and where I can get these 1:10 drawings that
Listed Buildings have requested. A recommendation of a good (inexpensive)
architect would go a long way, preferably someone who has some understanding and
experience of dealing with a list building and who is willing to take on our project?
Wood Guy
Mar 31, 21 1:26 pm
It sounds like you're the client? Perhaps in the UK? Is this barn a building you already own? Is it a currently a barn or a living space? Have you worked with an architect or only a builder on this project? What do you currently have for drawings and other documents? What do you have for signed contracts?
Good architects are virtually never inexpensive architects. Investing in professional guidance will cost money, but will hopefully avoid further setbacks to the process.
Non Sequitur
Mar 31, 21 1:31 pm
1:10 is typical bread/butter type stuff... sounds like you hired GCs instead of a design team.
atelier nobody
Mar 31, 21 2:31 pm
Yeah, you need to hire an architect, not a builder and not an unlicensed designer, with adaptive reuse and listed buildings experience. This is a niche specialization - even many very capable generalist architects (like myself, IMNSHO) might not have the experience to deal with a listed building without a learning curve.
Chad Miller
Mar 31, 21 2:41 pm
Yup. Sounds like the OP never hired an architect. Hopefully this wasn't done to save money . . .
Oh wait. They want an (inexpensive) architect. They almost certainty went cheap to design and build their dream house.
S Simms - you get what you pay for. Good luck.
Wood Guy
Mar 31, 21 3:01 pm
I'd challenge you a bit on the architect vs. designer choice--as an unlicensed designer, this kind of project is fully in my wheelhouse--in fact I'm working on one right now, a 1790 timber-framed barn in a historic review district, that we're changing to a reasonably high-performing residence, on a tight budget. I know a lot of architects who would flounder if presented with this kind of project. But in general I agree that it's safer to hire a licensed architect. And it may be required, depending where the OP lives.
Non Sequitur
Mar 31, 21 3:26 pm
WG, you're an exception in my experience. 8-)
atelier nobody
Mar 31, 21 3:30 pm
Wood Guy, I generally agree - I did projects as an unlicensed designer before I got my license, and I also did plan check and looked at many sets of drawings from both licensed architects and unlicensed designers and saw good and bad work from both.
My reason for recommending a licensed architect to people who don't know any better is that with a licensed architect you have more legal recourse if they do screw you.
Wood Guy
Mar 31, 21 3:31 pm
Thanks Non, and I know I mention my credentials (or lack thereof) here a bit too often. But I know several other highly skilled and experienced designers, and plenty of architects who don't deserve the title. In any case, the OP should look for a qualified, licensed architect.
Chad Miller
Mar 31, 21 3:39 pm
I agree with NS. Wood Guy - you are the exception to nearly everything. You're a damn good designer and you know more about wood framed construction, and low energy, high performance design then nearly anyone I know.
atelier nobody
Mar 31, 21 3:42 pm
In the jurisdiction where I did plan check, our "usual suspects" included 3 licensed architects who ranged from utterly incompetent to baseline competent and a number of unlicensed designers in about the same range (medium-sized but economically distressed city). The best sets of CD came from out of town and were about evenly split between licensed architects and unlicensed designers. The absolute worst were pretty consistently the commercial projects actually done by unlicensed designers and then stamped by some civil engineer who probably charged $100/sheet for stamping.
Miles Jaffe
Mar 31, 21 6:37 pm
Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. This applies to everything including licensed architects, unlicensed architectural designers, and project managers. Do proper research and check references before you enter into a relationship with anyone.
randomised
Mar 31, 21 3:10 pm
friends of mine are going through the same process. acquired land and a monumental farm building (one of the oldest remaining in their province) and need to split the property in two and do renovations to turn it into a two-family home. the hoops they need to jump through and all the dealings with the municipality and historic preservation people etc. made them realise from day 1 that this could only be achieved by hiring an experienced local architect...just got off the phone with them yesterday and they have all necessary permits, all the drawings and details done. now they only need to get it build and are looking for a builder/builders...only problem is everyone’s booked solid, might need to wait a year or so before anyone can get started ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Chad Miller
Mar 31, 21 3:40 pm
That's happening in my area of the US. All the GC's for residential construction are booked through 2022. This includes the "quality challenged" GC's.
thatsthat
Mar 31, 21 5:27 pm
The OP may want to ask whomever they've been working with on the Listed Buildings committee. I'm not sure how that works where you are. But given their job, they often come across architects who do this kind of work. Sometimes, if the rep is nice, they can recommend a few architecture firms whose work has passed the review board's requirements. I've seen local pres boards in the US recommend firms during board meetings. Typically, this is above-board, as long as board members recommend multiple firms when asked.
I'm not saying all recommendations will be good ones, but it would give the OP a place to start.
Bench
Apr 1, 21 8:53 am
Seems like if it was framed not as a "recommendation" but simply as listing firms who previously passed the board's standards for approval, without hint of prejudice, that should be entirely above board, regardless of the number?
thatsthat
Apr 1, 21 4:01 pm
Yes, "recommendation" was not the right word, but yes, that is what I was getting at.
OP may also consider asking their local non-profit historical society, if such a thing exists in their area. They can often direct owners to resources, designers, architects, and contractors who may be qualified to undertake a historic project.
We started our Barn Renovation journey over a year ago now, and after 4 building relationships with supposedly qualified people who advised us that they could help us through the process of Planning Permission, Listed Building Consent and Building Regulations we have wasted ridiculous amounts of money, time and the will to live. We are now no further forward than when we started this project, with less funds and at times limited passion, for what was supposed to be our dream home. Listed Buildings has requested 1:10 drawings of windows, roof lights etc, which out current PM had decided is not within their capability’s, and we really do not know where to turn or who to trust. Being complete novices we have replied and trusted in the experience and qualifications of professionals, none of which have delivered on expectation never mind promises, yet been happy to take our money and leave us abandoned. Can anyone help me understand what we have planning/permission for and where I can get these 1:10 drawings that Listed Buildings have requested. A recommendation of a good (inexpensive) architect would go a long way, preferably someone who has some understanding and experience of dealing with a list building and who is willing to take on our project?
It sounds like you're the client? Perhaps in the UK? Is this barn a building you already own? Is it a currently a barn or a living space? Have you worked with an architect or only a builder on this project? What do you currently have for drawings and other documents? What do you have for signed contracts?
Good architects are virtually never inexpensive architects. Investing in professional guidance will cost money, but will hopefully avoid further setbacks to the process.
1:10 is typical bread/butter type stuff... sounds like you hired GCs instead of a design team.
Yeah, you need to hire an architect, not a builder and not an unlicensed designer, with adaptive reuse and listed buildings experience. This is a niche specialization - even many very capable generalist architects (like myself, IMNSHO) might not have the experience to deal with a listed building without a learning curve.
Yup. Sounds like the OP never hired an architect. Hopefully this wasn't done to save money . . .
Oh wait. They want an (inexpensive) architect. They almost certainty went cheap to design and build their dream house.
S Simms - you get what you pay for. Good luck.
I'd challenge you a bit on the architect vs. designer choice--as an unlicensed designer, this kind of project is fully in my wheelhouse--in fact I'm working on one right now, a 1790 timber-framed barn in a historic review district, that we're changing to a reasonably high-performing residence, on a tight budget. I know a lot of architects who would flounder if presented with this kind of project. But in general I agree that it's safer to hire a licensed architect. And it may be required, depending where the OP lives.
WG, you're an exception in my experience. 8-)
Wood Guy, I generally agree - I did projects as an unlicensed designer before I got my license, and I also did plan check and looked at many sets of drawings from both licensed architects and unlicensed designers and saw good and bad work from both.
My reason for recommending a licensed architect to people who don't know any better is that with a licensed architect you have more legal recourse if they do screw you.
Thanks Non, and I know I mention my credentials (or lack thereof) here a bit too often. But I know several other highly skilled and experienced designers, and plenty of architects who don't deserve the title. In any case, the OP should look for a qualified, licensed architect.
I agree with NS. Wood Guy - you are the exception to nearly everything. You're a damn good designer and you know more about wood framed construction, and low energy, high performance design then nearly anyone I know.
In the jurisdiction where I did plan check, our "usual suspects" included 3 licensed architects who ranged from utterly incompetent to baseline competent and a number of unlicensed designers in about the same range (medium-sized but economically distressed city). The best sets of CD came from out of town and were about evenly split between licensed architects and unlicensed designers. The absolute worst were pretty consistently the commercial projects actually done by unlicensed designers and then stamped by some civil engineer who probably charged $100/sheet for stamping.
Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. This applies to everything including licensed architects, unlicensed architectural designers, and project managers. Do proper research and check references before you enter into a relationship with anyone.
friends of mine are going through the same process. acquired land and a monumental farm building (one of the oldest remaining in their province) and need to split the property in two and do renovations to turn it into a two-family home. the hoops they need to jump through and all the dealings with the municipality and historic preservation people etc. made them realise from day 1 that this could only be achieved by hiring an experienced local architect...just got off the phone with them yesterday and they have all necessary permits, all the drawings and details done. now they only need to get it build and are looking for a builder/builders...only problem is everyone’s booked solid, might need to wait a year or so before anyone can get started ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That's happening in my area of the US. All the GC's for residential construction are booked through 2022. This includes the "quality challenged" GC's.
The OP may want to ask whomever they've been working with on the Listed Buildings committee. I'm not sure how that works where you are. But given their job, they often come across architects who do this kind of work. Sometimes, if the rep is nice, they can recommend a few architecture firms whose work has passed the review board's requirements. I've seen local pres boards in the US recommend firms during board meetings. Typically, this is above-board, as long as board members recommend multiple firms when asked.
I'm not saying all recommendations will be good ones, but it would give the OP a place to start.
Seems like if it was framed not as a "recommendation" but simply as listing firms who previously passed the board's standards for approval, without hint of prejudice, that should be entirely above board, regardless of the number?
Yes, "recommendation" was not the right word, but yes, that is what I was getting at.
OP may also consider asking their local non-profit historical society, if such a thing exists in their area. They can often direct owners to resources, designers, architects, and contractors who may be qualified to undertake a historic project.