I'm currently a first year undergrad in a STEM major, but found a serious interest in architecture. My current university doesn't offer a degree in architecture, meaning I don't really have any advisors I can get information from and I'll have to transfer. Since most application deadlines are closed, though, I'll need to wait for the next cycle to apply for transfer if I do decide to. I'm unsure as to exactly how hard it would be to transfer and am wary considering how long it may take me to graduate. I'm aware that if I apply for B.Arch programs, I may have just "wasted" two years of my life since it takes 5-6 years to complete it from the moment you're admitted into the program, meaning I'd have been in school for at least 7 years before graduating with a degree. Some have told me to just complete the Bachelor's degree I'm currently pursuing and then going back to school for architecture after I graduate so that way I'd have two degrees in my pocket after 9 years of school, but I feel like that might not be the way to go and, on top of that, will be pretty expensive.
Are there any other straightforward paths that I could take? How do people usually transfer into architecture? Again, nothing's been set in stone and I'm still doing my research, but any tips on how I can get experience before jumping in or advice in general?
Here are just some things I've heard from others that kind of worry me: People either hate it or love it. What you do while in university is different than in employment. The field is oversaturated. Lots and lots of late nights.
SneakyPete
Mar 25, 21 12:22 pm
If those things worry you, ask yourself whether you have the interest and ability to stand up for yourself and push back against employers that expect those things. This sometimes includes quitting a toxic firm.
There are no wasted years, just spent time and money. You've learned things other people in Architecture did not.
Make sure you know what "serious interest" translates to. I have a serious interest in climbing mountains, but I'm not a guide. I know plenty of guides and that is not the life for me, regardless of how much I love the mountains.
monosierra
Mar 25, 21 1:18 pm
Consider two things: the studies and the profession. They could be very different. Besides students, speak to professionals at different kinds of firms as well - whether a commercial one or a design boutique - to get a good understanding of the realities of working. Some folks enjoy the schooling but find disappointment at work while others experience the opposite. There's a broad spectrum of "work" that vary in their scope and depths.
thatsthat
Mar 25, 21 2:06 pm
Your last sentence is especially important. Not all architects do the same job. There is a progression through the profession where people slowly gain more experience and are rewarded with more responsibility. Some firms silo their design staff from their construction staff. I wish I had known all of this in school.
monosierra
Mar 25, 21 4:05 pm
Its something I wish I learned earlier. I was recently taking stock of what classmates are up to a couple of years out of school and the range of work is pretty broad. Besides architects, there are real estate developers, software developers, construction managers, entrepreneurs, starchitects-to-be, professors, facade consultants, builders ... all over the AEC industry.
What I realy dislike is that siloing you mentioned - where even some corporate offices keep their in-house hot shot designer and his/her coterie from the rest of the office, which work exclusively on technical design. Its difficult for either group to grasp the entire design workflow when the former works exclusively in Photoshop and Rhino while the latter is stuck in Revit, taking orders from the designers.
t a z
Mar 25, 21 1:41 pm
A suggest:
Transferring may not be ideal because whatever transfer credits your new school may accept, you will not have any studio credits.
Assuming your current school has a humanities program you may be able to propose a self-directed minor or concentration in architectural studies.
You can then apply to MArch I programs (3 yr, first professional arch degree) and use your minor to bolster your application.
Would be 7 yrs (4+3) of schooling in total with the associated price tag. Not sure where you're getting 9?
atelier nobody
Mar 25, 21 2:43 pm
Exactly what t a z said, completing your current degree and then getting an M.Arch would be about the same time frame or maybe one more year than transferring to a B.Arch with your 2 "lost" years.
In terms of differences between school and practice, a pretty traditional architectural project breaks down something like this:
Schematic Design...................15%
Design Development..............20%
Construction Documents........40%
Bidding and Negotiation...........5%
Construction Administration...20%
Most architecture schools focus 80%-100% of instruction on Schematic Design, which is 15% of a project, and 0%-20% on the other 85% of architectural work, so many graduates hit the job market with a very unrealistic view of the profession and end up disappointed. The best way to combat this is to do internships every summer. You might even find firms that would give you some clerical/general office type work for the summers while in your current major (which would work in your favor when applying to M.Arch programs).
t a z
Mar 25, 21 3:20 pm
To add: The 4+3 degree approach is pretty common route for a lot of undergrad B.A. majors (i.e. art history majors, presumably
based on limited job prospects).
SneakyPete
Mar 25, 21 3:23 pm
4+3 should only be for non-arch undergrad majors. 4+2 for undergrad non-accredited and 5+1 for accredited folks who want that MArch. (If this is incorrect please inform)
atelier nobody
Mar 25, 21 3:59 pm
Sneaky, you're correct. The OP stated that he is a non-arch major now, so we're only talking about the 4+3 route.
Jay1122
Mar 25, 21 5:25 pm
It would be funny if OP was dreaming about doing starchitect works. Went to shadow a big shot architect manager for a day to see what the practice is like. All the guy did in the day was, invoices & billing, arguing with clients about the fees, endless meetings about project schedules, progresses, outstanding items, arguing with a contractor over some stupid change order requests, answering stupid RFIs with answers already in the drawing, calling consultants to tell them to send their stuff over for review. Before you know it, it is the end of the day. Where is the freaking "Architecture", OP asked.
Anyway OP, what major are you doing now. If it is an engineer degree related to architecture like civil, mechanical, electrical. It is definitely worth to finish and go for master. If it is stupid shit like Mathematic major. Just take whatever credit you can and go for B.arch. Masters are not cheap, unless you are so confident that you can get good scholarships/grants.
baboo.fei
Mar 31, 21 11:43 pm
How is a degree in math "stupid shit" lmao. People here have such ass-backwards ideas of education and its value.
I have quite a few math major friends working in quant funds making $200k out of school. Know a guy in applied math who got a $125k position leading a startup right after getting suspended for dealing drugs in undergrad. Considering how much typical architectural designers make after 5-7 years of schooling I don't think math is so stupid after all...
Jay1122
Apr 1, 21 5:03 pm
Who cares about those rare success stories. They will probably shine with any major. Your logic is the same as the people saying Bills gate, Steve job, etc dropped out of university = university is useless. A rare few does not equal to the norm. Just like some architects made it to stardom does not mean Architecture degree = starchitect.
Somenumbersix
Apr 1, 21 7:10 pm
Those are not rare success stories. Can’t imagine a person with math degree making less than six digits straight out of college. Quant traders make a hell of money. Also all kinds of data science and programming jobs. Really it is a very profitable field now
Somenumbersix
Apr 1, 21 7:11 pm
Should be posted in the thread above
Jay1122
Apr 2, 21 8:55 am
4 years of under grad and make 6 digit salary out of school. Can you show me the job post? Remember, no experience required. I can tell you, it does not exist. Of course there are fields that will put them to use with good salary, but mostly not because of the things they learn in the major. More just their pure ability to be able to conquer those tough equations and calculations. The pure intelligence I would say. They will adapt such learning ability to specialize in fields such as finance, accounting, research, etc.
But it does not matter. Just take it. That is what M.arch 1 is for. After you can't land the 6 digit salary out of school and end up in a generic insurance firm with boring desk tasks. You will be thinking about M. Arch1.
Jay1122
Apr 2, 21 9:10 am
Also, a quick google on the Quant traders job. Even just reading the job description knowing that shit requires real skills. Minimum Master in financial engineer. A lot of PhD in physics. Extremely few job positions in a specialized sub sector of finance. No idea how good you have to be to get that job with undergrad math degree. Exactly the kind of people dreaming about being starchitect while doing architecture degree.
Jay1122
Apr 2, 21 9:44 am
Here is a paragraph from a website, this is more like reality. "Education and training: It is usually difficult for new college graduates to score a job as a quant trader. A more typical career path is starting out as a data research analyst and becoming a quant after a few years. Education like a master's degree in financial engineering, a diploma in quantitative financial modeling or electives in quantitative streams during the regular MBA may give candidates a head start. These courses cover the theoretical concepts and practical introduction to tools required for quant trading". The average for entry level analyst is 74K based on payscale info. 5-9 years average 100k. That's more like it. Better than architecture for sure, but its finance, not surprising. A lot comes from bonus and profit sharing. And that job has nothing to do with math major, even computer science major or physics can apply. Simply put, you have to be really smart.
Jay1122
Apr 2, 21 9:53 am
Here is another good one from a website article:
"Education and Certifications - Most firms look for at least a master's degree or preferably a Ph.D. in a quantitative subject, such as mathematics, economics, finance, or statistics. Master's degrees in financial engineering or computational finance are also effective entry points for quant careers".
Man I wish there is a 4 year degree making 6 digits right out of school. I would be there right now. But, reality is reality.
Somenumbersix
Apr 2, 21 10:39 am
I didn’t plan to make any “l” posts but I quit architecture and went to a coding boot camp. Made 6 digits at an entry level without any degree. The only thing I regret (and that’s why I actually post it) is that nobody told me earlier that there are other career paths to consider
Jay1122
Apr 2, 21 11:11 am
Not news to me. Yes, IT still pays well. Although not as in demand as it was. I am more surprised that your "coding boot camp" gave you enough skill sets to make 6 digit salary. Do you already have basic skills down? Or did you just got lucky? Or is your training very specialized in a niche field? The key is, did all your boot camp class mates got 6 digit salary? Anyway, I never liked coding. Thought about computer science as major. Don't want to end up bald with flannel shirts. If you get my joke.
Somenumbersix
Apr 2, 21 11:24 am
No previous skills but the process took me about a year. Bootcamp + leetcode and portfolio projects. Job search was exhausting tbh. And yes, not all of my classmates even got hired. So it is not as easy as bootcamps say but doable. Yeah, I got it)
Jay1122
Apr 2, 21 11:42 am
Sounds to me that you are hard working and driven. I am assuming that you hold a bachelor degree in architecture? Possibly work experience too. Not drop out of architecture school and went into boot camp? I would be really surprised high school degree with bootcamp can make it in.
atelier nobody
Apr 2, 21 1:51 pm
I turned down a job at Microsoft to pursue architecture. For me, it was the right decision; for others, it might not have been.
I'm currently a first year undergrad in a STEM major, but found a serious interest in architecture. My current university doesn't offer a degree in architecture, meaning I don't really have any advisors I can get information from and I'll have to transfer. Since most application deadlines are closed, though, I'll need to wait for the next cycle to apply for transfer if I do decide to. I'm unsure as to exactly how hard it would be to transfer and am wary considering how long it may take me to graduate. I'm aware that if I apply for B.Arch programs, I may have just "wasted" two years of my life since it takes 5-6 years to complete it from the moment you're admitted into the program, meaning I'd have been in school for at least 7 years before graduating with a degree. Some have told me to just complete the Bachelor's degree I'm currently pursuing and then going back to school for architecture after I graduate so that way I'd have two degrees in my pocket after 9 years of school, but I feel like that might not be the way to go and, on top of that, will be pretty expensive.
Are there any other straightforward paths that I could take? How do people usually transfer into architecture? Again, nothing's been set in stone and I'm still doing my research, but any tips on how I can get experience before jumping in or advice in general?
Here are just some things I've heard from others that kind of worry me: People either hate it or love it. What you do while in university is different than in employment. The field is oversaturated. Lots and lots of late nights.
If those things worry you, ask yourself whether you have the interest and ability to stand up for yourself and push back against employers that expect those things. This sometimes includes quitting a toxic firm.
There are no wasted years, just spent time and money. You've learned things other people in Architecture did not.
Make sure you know what "serious interest" translates to. I have a serious interest in climbing mountains, but I'm not a guide. I know plenty of guides and that is not the life for me, regardless of how much I love the mountains.
Consider two things: the studies and the profession. They could be very different. Besides students, speak to professionals at different kinds of firms as well - whether a commercial one or a design boutique - to get a good understanding of the realities of working. Some folks enjoy the schooling but find disappointment at work while others experience the opposite. There's a broad spectrum of "work" that vary in their scope and depths.
Your last sentence is especially important. Not all architects do the same job. There is a progression through the profession where people slowly gain more experience and are rewarded with more responsibility. Some firms silo their design staff from their construction staff. I wish I had known all of this in school.
Its something I wish I learned earlier. I was recently taking stock of what classmates are up to a couple of years out of school and the range of work is pretty broad. Besides architects, there are real estate developers, software developers, construction managers, entrepreneurs, starchitects-to-be, professors, facade consultants, builders ... all over the AEC industry.
What I realy dislike is that siloing you mentioned - where even some corporate offices keep their in-house hot shot designer and his/her coterie from the rest of the office, which work exclusively on technical design. Its difficult for either group to grasp the entire design workflow when the former works exclusively in Photoshop and Rhino while the latter is stuck in Revit, taking orders from the designers.
A suggest:
Transferring may not be ideal because whatever transfer credits your new school may accept, you will not have any studio credits.
Assuming your current school has a humanities program you may be able to propose a self-directed minor or concentration in architectural studies.
You can then apply to MArch I programs (3 yr, first professional arch degree) and use your minor to bolster your application.
Would be 7 yrs (4+3) of schooling in total with the associated price tag. Not sure where you're getting 9?
Exactly what t a z said, completing your current degree and then getting an M.Arch would be about the same time frame or maybe one more year than transferring to a B.Arch with your 2 "lost" years.
In terms of differences between school and practice, a pretty traditional architectural project breaks down something like this:
Most architecture schools focus 80%-100% of instruction on Schematic Design, which is 15% of a project, and 0%-20% on the other 85% of architectural work, so many graduates hit the job market with a very unrealistic view of the profession and end up disappointed. The best way to combat this is to do internships every summer. You might even find firms that would give you some clerical/general office type work for the summers while in your current major (which would work in your favor when applying to M.Arch programs).
To add: The 4+3 degree approach is pretty common route for a lot of undergrad B.A. majors (i.e. art history majors, presumably based on limited job prospects).
4+3 should only be for non-arch undergrad majors. 4+2 for undergrad non-accredited and 5+1 for accredited folks who want that MArch. (If this is incorrect please inform)
Sneaky, you're correct. The OP stated that he is a non-arch major now, so we're only talking about the 4+3 route.
It would be funny if OP was dreaming about doing starchitect works. Went to shadow a big shot architect manager for a day to see what the practice is like. All the guy did in the day was, invoices & billing, arguing with clients about the fees, endless meetings about project schedules, progresses, outstanding items, arguing with a contractor over some stupid change order requests, answering stupid RFIs with answers already in the drawing, calling consultants to tell them to send their stuff over for review. Before you know it, it is the end of the day. Where is the freaking "Architecture", OP asked.
Anyway OP, what major are you doing now. If it is an engineer degree related to architecture like civil, mechanical, electrical. It is definitely worth to finish and go for master. If it is stupid shit like Mathematic major. Just take whatever credit you can and go for B.arch. Masters are not cheap, unless you are so confident that you can get good scholarships/grants.
How is a degree in math "stupid shit" lmao. People here have such ass-backwards ideas of education and its value.
I have quite a few math major friends working in quant funds making $200k out of school. Know a guy in applied math who got a $125k position leading a startup right after getting suspended for dealing drugs in undergrad. Considering how much typical architectural designers make after 5-7 years of schooling I don't think math is so stupid after all...
Who cares about those rare success stories. They will probably shine with any major. Your logic is the same as the people saying Bills gate, Steve job, etc dropped out of university = university is useless. A rare few does not equal to the norm. Just like some architects made it to stardom does not mean Architecture degree = starchitect.
Those are not rare success stories. Can’t imagine a person with math degree making less than six digits straight out of college. Quant traders make a hell of money. Also all kinds of data science and programming jobs. Really it is a very profitable field now
Should be posted in the thread above
4 years of under grad and make 6 digit salary out of school. Can you show me the job post? Remember, no experience required. I can tell you, it does not exist. Of course there are fields that will put them to use with good salary, but mostly not because of the things they learn in the major. More just their pure ability to be able to conquer those tough equations and calculations. The pure intelligence I would say. They will adapt such learning ability to specialize in fields such as finance, accounting, research, etc.
But it does not matter. Just take it. That is what M.arch 1 is for. After you can't land the 6 digit salary out of school and end up in a generic insurance firm with boring desk tasks. You will be thinking about M. Arch1.
Also, a quick google on the Quant traders job. Even just reading the job description knowing that shit requires real skills. Minimum Master in financial engineer. A lot of PhD in physics. Extremely few job positions in a specialized sub sector of finance. No idea how good you have to be to get that job with undergrad math degree. Exactly the kind of people dreaming about being starchitect while doing architecture degree.
Here is a paragraph from a website, this is more like reality. "Education and training: It is usually difficult for new college graduates to score a job as a quant trader. A more typical career path is starting out as a data research analyst and becoming a quant after a few years. Education like a master's degree in financial engineering, a diploma in quantitative financial modeling or electives in quantitative streams during the regular MBA may give candidates a head start. These courses cover the theoretical concepts and practical introduction to tools required for quant trading". The average for entry level analyst is 74K based on payscale info. 5-9 years average 100k. That's more like it. Better than architecture for sure, but its finance, not surprising. A lot comes from bonus and profit sharing. And that job has nothing to do with math major, even computer science major or physics can apply. Simply put, you have to be really smart.
Here is another good one from a website article:
"Education and Certifications - Most firms look for at least a master's degree or preferably a Ph.D. in a quantitative subject, such as mathematics, economics, finance, or statistics. Master's degrees in financial engineering or computational finance are also effective entry points for quant careers".
Man I wish there is a 4 year degree making 6 digits right out of school. I would be there right now. But, reality is reality.
I didn’t plan to make any “l” posts but I quit architecture and went to a coding boot camp. Made 6 digits at an entry level without any degree. The only thing I regret (and that’s why I actually post it) is that nobody told me earlier that there are other career paths to consider
Not news to me. Yes, IT still pays well. Although not as in demand as it was. I am more surprised that your "coding boot camp" gave you enough skill sets to make 6 digit salary. Do you already have basic skills down? Or did you just got lucky? Or is your training very specialized in a niche field? The key is, did all your boot camp class mates got 6 digit salary? Anyway, I never liked coding. Thought about computer science as major. Don't want to end up bald with flannel shirts. If you get my joke.
No previous skills but the process took me about a year. Bootcamp + leetcode and portfolio projects. Job search was exhausting tbh. And yes, not all of my classmates even got hired. So it is not as easy as bootcamps say but doable. Yeah, I got it)
Sounds to me that you are hard working and driven. I am assuming that you hold a bachelor degree in architecture? Possibly work experience too. Not drop out of architecture school and went into boot camp? I would be really surprised high school degree with bootcamp can make it in.
I turned down a job at Microsoft to pursue architecture. For me, it was the right decision; for others, it might not have been.