Anyone willing to leave their thoughts regarding either program will be greatly appreciated, especially current or past students. Let's set out stereotypical assumptions and feel free to contradict/set the record straight!
YSOA: 3 year program, one semester less than GSD; leans more heavily towards theory/history/phenomenology in architecture; pluralistic faculty; less diverse student body, smaller class size=more studio space; post-graduation paths more closely related to traditional architectural practices
GSD: 3.5 year program, global approach to design and space-making; diverse student body that widens discussions of certain topics; cross-registering at MIT; post-graduation paths (wide spectrum?)
bp0425
Mar 17, 21 8:11 pm
*specific course details/opportunities
YSOA: no thesis involved in M.Arch I; First year building project; anyone aware or can give an idea of Dean's direction/focus for the program?
GSD: more opportunities to apply for fellowships (more globally connected); more crossover between content of courses with MLA, MAUD; same question: anyone aware or can give an idea of Dean's direction/focus for the program?
nastronaut
Mar 18, 21 11:33 am
Can't forget how critical an "extra" semester is when it costs around 25k, and you lose working time! I think that's the most objective difference, as most other things are really dependent upon your background, what you want out of your education, and where you want to go. Very personal.
bp0425
Mar 18, 21 12:21 pm
Definitely agree that it is a more personal decision rather than an objective difference in pedagogy than if you were to compare let's say a program like Columbia GSAPP to YSOA (GSAPP seems to be heavily speculative and experimental with digital mediums.)
bp0425
Mar 18, 21 12:34 pm
It is more difficult for me to identify a difference in discourse and pedagogy between GSD and YSOA, aside from the general fact that GSD seems to address global/ecological issues more frequently and on a larger scale while YSOA approaches creating space through a wide range of perspectives/courses
that are independently focused in their own way.
RichardV
Mar 18, 21 9:38 am
Thanks for starting this. I'm having the same questions of GSD vs YSOA
square.
Mar 18, 21 9:51 am
both are machines for reproducing the architectural status quo. i don't mean that positively or negatively- but as an observation of the size of these programs and their impact on discourse.
monosierra
Mar 18, 21 10:17 am
More GSD folks than Yale at SOM for sure.
monosierra
Mar 18, 21 10:16 am
YSOA offers the opportunity (A rare one) to do an MBA at the same time. I personally find YSOA's elective studios sometimes more diverse than the GSD's - outside of Notre Dame, does any school really go into depths into classical architecture? A smaller class size and the lack of landscape and UD departments could be a good thing in terms of competition for limtied fab resources though you do lack interaction with other designers.
seel2884
Mar 18, 21 10:26 am
Are you a current YSOA student pursuing an MBA? If so, could you provide a little more insight into what your experience has been and what made you decide to pursue one? This element of YSOA has a great deal of appeal for me personally, and I would like to understand more about its specifics.
monosierra
Mar 18, 21 10:57 am
Nope, it was just something I looked into way back. It is tough as you have to gain admissions to both schools independently and then sequence your semesters to finish them almost simultaneously. About 2 or 3 students tops enroll in it per semester - you should ask their Admissions about it as it is pretty unique. Folks tend to go into the business side of design after this dual degree.
seel2884
Mar 18, 21 11:26 am
Thank you for your response. The one aspect that seems slightly farfetched for me personally is being accepted to the SOM. (Not that it is impossible.) I assume they are also more likely to select someone who has already matriculated at Yale than someone applying from the outside, but this is me solely speculating. I was also reading and understand that if enrolled in the MBA program your M ARCH requirements are lowered to allow for enough time to pursue both degrees. Nonetheless, I can imagine it is an absurd amount of work.
monosierra
Mar 18, 21 12:28 pm
Depends a lot on the office location and seniority. SOM Chicago hires from UMich, UIUC, UIC for instance. If they're looking for a mid-level hire, your project experience would count for far more than where you got your degree. The leadership echelon indeed comes from a few schools but even then, being great at the political intrigue of such a large firm would make or break a career more so than your alma mater.
nastronaut
Mar 18, 21 12:32 pm
I think SOM in seel2884's comment is in reference to the School of Management, where one would get an MBA from at Yale. Also, screw Skidmore loool its the worst
monosierra
Mar 18, 21 12:45 pm
Hahaha you're right! Totally forgot they call their business school the School of Management.
DustFlâneur
Mar 18, 21 10:40 am
Does anyone know how many students are typically enrolled into GSD's MArch 1 programme?
monosierra
Mar 18, 21 10:55 am
50 to 60 usually
nastronaut
Mar 18, 21 11:28 am
Around 20ish join in the second year for advanced standing though
monosierra
Mar 18, 21 12:25 pm
Geez they really boosted the AP intake that much?
DustFlâneur
Mar 18, 21 12:41 pm
I emailed the admissions director and apparently there are only 9 students who are granted AP status.
nastronaut
Mar 18, 21 12:45 pm
Oh oop i read 20 somewhere, saying around 70 students graduate each year. I guess that would make sense of there are 60 joined by around 9 students. I just thought there was close to 50ish students starting the first year
monosierra
Mar 18, 21 12:46 pm
That makes more sense. The MLA AP intake is massive but MArch is usually less than a dozen.
baboo.fei
Mar 31, 21 10:59 pm
9 is the correct number here. Last year was 12 I believe.
nastronaut
Mar 18, 21 11:46 am
I think I'm biased because I only applied to yale, and it's probably where I'm going in the fall. My biggest issue with the GSD is the sheer scale of the school, as well as the student body. Very large, and competitive, which isn't particularly conducive to a good learning environment. You'll get the "prestige" from both schools, but I deeply believe yale will give you a more wholesome architectural education. There's something to be said about building a house in your first year. You'll enter the last two with your feet on the ground. Again, this is very dependent on your undergraduate and professional experience. My undergrad was a very theoretical architecture program, and more theory isn't what I need in my development right now, although I'm sure I'll get it at yale.
seel2884
Mar 18, 21 1:36 pm
I thought I was the only one! I'm feeling somewhat remorseful now, however, as I do really like the GSD. I think this feeling will fade away soon, but I can't help wishing I applied to both. I would agree with you that Yale is a much better environment and will likely lead me down a similar path. Lastly, you can't get more wholesome than Deborah Berke. She is totally right on with her philosophy and grounding principles. For those interested, I recommend watching her lecture entitled "Everyday 2020" as it provides a great insight into her understanding of current architectural discourse and likely how the entire YSOA operates. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1xz0tj_Wdg
analoguearchitect
Mar 26, 21 4:33 pm
Just wanted to chime in here and hopefully get this conversation started again. I've been agonizing over GSD vs YSoA for the past couple weeks and have spoken to about 10 students from each school plus reached out to faculty. Just finished speaking to Anna Dyson and Alan Organschi this week.
I think Yale is on its journey to being a leader in the architecture field. The direction that Deborah Berke positions Yale students to be at the forefront of addressing coming global issues. The historical notion of being conservative/strictly design oriented is quickly fading (although they still have their tendencies to prefer hand-drawings). Anna also said that the distinction between Yale/Harvard is that Harvard is a little more corporate. She walked me through images of Gund and Rudolph Hall and Gund is just super open - sort of like a "big brother" feeling where you're constantly being watched. On the other hand Rudolph seems to better balance a sense of privacy and collaboration. Yale students also (from her perspective) seem to be more of the troublemaker activist types whereas Harvard tends to aim more toward corporate firms.
On the other end, my conversations with current GSD students have been utterly fantastic. They've taken time to speak with me and can really articulate points (whereas my instagram DMs to Yale students have been a little lackluster). I don't think the "competitive cutthroat" reputation of the GSD is much of an issue these days. Living in Cambridge also has its perks (but is more expensive). I think that their larger, more diverse program, is appealing because you're able to be exposed to so many different fields (within design). However from my emails with Faculty from the GSD, it's pretty much limited to 20 minute slots that you schedule through a link (seems a little limited/impersonal). Yale has fantastic connections with the environmental school and also has more elective slots than the GSD so you are able to explore those. Yale's limitations are that it doesn't have as diverse a selection of classes within the school of architecture. The GSD is the opposite - lots of courses but few slots.
I'm still trying to figure out which school better suits me. Would love to talk to other students who are also thinking the same.
kx.rbz
Mar 26, 21 4:40 pm
are you m.arch 1 or 2? you seem to have a much stronger alignments with Yale then the GSD. And your observations about ysoa's trajectory seems accurate. Especially with it's new leadership
analoguearchitect
Mar 26, 21 5:51 pm
I'm M.Arch 1. I think GSD is somewhat TBD at the moment since I'm scheduling some calls with professors. However they're doing a great job hosting little events for students to start meeting each other. So far Yale admin has been a little MIA.
kx.rbz
Mar 26, 21 6:27 pm
since you're march 1, i'd recommend ysoa. you'd have more time to be part of what you described - and to play a role in it. i always recommend to go to a place where you will not only grow, but will have a big impact. harvard is more corporate, but the real distinction is the size. princeton, ysoa and mit are serious/realistic about trying to make attendance affordable, gsd is not as able to because of it's size. either way, both schools are excellent and have strong alumni networks. there isn't a wrong choice.
kx.rbz
Mar 26, 21 6:30 pm
i think generally ysoa is having a tough time with their admissions logistic. but that is more of an administration droping the ball and not indictive of what the school is like pedagogically. are both schools giving you good financial aid?
analoguearchitect
Mar 26, 21 6:37 pm
I've got the same amount of aid from both schools, but YSoA is a little less expensive since it's a shorter program. Will definitely try to reach out and negotiate for more aid. I'm a little curious about your background actually? Were you a GSD/YSoA student?
kx.rbz
Mar 26, 21 7:14 pm
well, you can certainly use gsd offer to pursued ysoa to give you a 2-4 thousand bucks. and neither, i went to gsapp. my partner went to ysoa. good luck
Luques
Mar 26, 21 10:31 pm
you all are making me question whether i should go to GSD : ( and feeling bad about not having the option to go to ysoa ...
itiswhatitis
Mar 29, 21 5:08 pm
I've had the same experience with yale students thru Instagram dm haha, its a little difficult to get advice from them
:(
clevelandcynic
Mar 29, 21 6:24 pm
I went to MIT for undergrad and had a lot of GSD faculty on my reviews. I definitely found a lot of them aloof and impersonal, more interested in raising their own talking points than actually discussing your work. I didn't attend the GSD, so this is obviously a brief and possibly biased opinion. But your feelings about limited/impersonal contact with GSD faculty don't surprise me based on my limited experience with them.
analoguearchitect
Mar 29, 21 9:34 pm
At the same time, from conversations with current GSD students, I've heard that there are professors that have actually just sat down with them to talk through assignments that they had trouble with and offer advice - generally making themselves pretty available. So it likely balances out across the faculty (they're more geographically diverse but that affects their availability).
adesignerdesigner
Mar 30, 21 1:51 pm
I know this thread is for yale vs gsd, but if anyone has any opinions on yale vs penn, please help me out! here is the link https://archinect.com/forum/th...
Anyone willing to leave their thoughts regarding either program will be greatly appreciated, especially current or past students. Let's set out stereotypical assumptions and feel free to contradict/set the record straight!
YSOA: 3 year program, one semester less than GSD; leans more heavily towards theory/history/phenomenology in architecture; pluralistic faculty; less diverse student body, smaller class size=more studio space; post-graduation paths more closely related to traditional architectural practices
GSD: 3.5 year program, global approach to design and space-making; diverse student body that widens discussions of certain topics; cross-registering at MIT; post-graduation paths (wide spectrum?)
*specific course details/opportunities
YSOA: no thesis involved in M.Arch I; First year building project; anyone aware or can give an idea of Dean's direction/focus for the program?
GSD: more opportunities to apply for fellowships (more globally connected); more crossover between content of courses with MLA, MAUD; same question: anyone aware or can give an idea of Dean's direction/focus for the program?
Can't forget how critical an "extra" semester is when it costs around 25k, and you lose working time! I think that's the most objective difference, as most other things are really dependent upon your background, what you want out of your education, and where you want to go. Very personal.
Definitely agree that it is a more personal decision rather than an objective difference in pedagogy than if you were to compare let's say a program like Columbia GSAPP to YSOA (GSAPP seems to be heavily speculative and experimental with digital mediums.)
It is more difficult for me to identify a difference in discourse and pedagogy between GSD and YSOA, aside from the general fact that GSD seems to address global/ecological issues more frequently and on a larger scale while YSOA approaches creating space through a wide range of perspectives/courses that are independently focused in their own way.
Thanks for starting this. I'm having the same questions of GSD vs YSOA
both are machines for reproducing the architectural status quo. i don't mean that positively or negatively- but as an observation of the size of these programs and their impact on discourse.
More GSD folks than Yale at SOM for sure.
YSOA offers the opportunity (A rare one) to do an MBA at the same time. I personally find YSOA's elective studios sometimes more diverse than the GSD's - outside of Notre Dame, does any school really go into depths into classical architecture? A smaller class size and the lack of landscape and UD departments could be a good thing in terms of competition for limtied fab resources though you do lack interaction with other designers.
Are you a current YSOA student pursuing an MBA? If so, could you provide a little more insight into what your experience has been and what made you decide to pursue one? This element of YSOA has a great deal of appeal for me personally, and I would like to understand more about its specifics.
Nope, it was just something I looked into way back. It is tough as you have to gain admissions to both schools independently and then sequence your semesters to finish them almost simultaneously. About 2 or 3 students tops enroll in it per semester - you should ask their Admissions about it as it is pretty unique. Folks tend to go into the business side of design after this dual degree.
Thank you for your response. The one aspect that seems slightly farfetched for me personally is being accepted to the SOM. (Not that it is impossible.) I assume they are also more likely to select someone who has already matriculated at Yale than someone applying from the outside, but this is me solely speculating. I was also reading and understand that if enrolled in the MBA program your M ARCH requirements are lowered to allow for enough time to pursue both degrees. Nonetheless, I can imagine it is an absurd amount of work.
Depends a lot on the office location and seniority. SOM Chicago hires from UMich, UIUC, UIC for instance. If they're looking for a mid-level hire, your project experience would count for far more than where you got your degree. The leadership echelon indeed comes from a few schools but even then, being great at the political intrigue of such a large firm would make or break a career more so than your alma mater.
I think SOM in seel2884's comment is in reference to the School of Management, where one would get an MBA from at Yale. Also, screw Skidmore loool its the worst
Hahaha you're right! Totally forgot they call their business school the School of Management.
Does anyone know how many students are typically enrolled into GSD's MArch 1 programme?
50 to 60 usually
Around 20ish join in the second year for advanced standing though
Geez they really boosted the AP intake that much?
I emailed the admissions director and apparently there are only 9 students who are granted AP status.
Oh oop i read 20 somewhere, saying around 70 students graduate each year. I guess that would make sense of there are 60 joined by around 9 students. I just thought there was close to 50ish students starting the first year
That makes more sense. The MLA AP intake is massive but MArch is usually less than a dozen.
9 is the correct number here. Last year was 12 I believe.
I think I'm biased because I only applied to yale, and it's probably where I'm going in the fall. My biggest issue with the GSD is the sheer scale of the school, as well as the student body. Very large, and competitive, which isn't particularly conducive to a good learning environment. You'll get the "prestige" from both schools, but I deeply believe yale will give you a more wholesome architectural education. There's something to be said about building a house in your first year. You'll enter the last two with your feet on the ground. Again, this is very dependent on your undergraduate and professional experience. My undergrad was a very theoretical architecture program, and more theory isn't what I need in my development right now, although I'm sure I'll get it at yale.
I thought I was the only one! I'm feeling somewhat remorseful now, however, as I do really like the GSD. I think this feeling will fade away soon, but I can't help wishing I applied to both. I would agree with you that Yale is a much better environment and will likely lead me down a similar path. Lastly, you can't get more wholesome than Deborah Berke. She is totally right on with her philosophy and grounding principles. For those interested, I recommend watching her lecture entitled "Everyday 2020" as it provides a great insight into her understanding of current architectural discourse and likely how the entire YSOA operates. Here's the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1xz0tj_Wdg
Just wanted to chime in here and hopefully get this conversation started again. I've been agonizing over GSD vs YSoA for the past couple weeks and have spoken to about 10 students from each school plus reached out to faculty. Just finished speaking to Anna Dyson and Alan Organschi this week.
I think Yale is on its journey to being a leader in the architecture field. The direction that Deborah Berke positions Yale students to be at the forefront of addressing coming global issues. The historical notion of being conservative/strictly design oriented is quickly fading (although they still have their tendencies to prefer hand-drawings). Anna also said that the distinction between Yale/Harvard is that Harvard is a little more corporate. She walked me through images of Gund and Rudolph Hall and Gund is just super open - sort of like a "big brother" feeling where you're constantly being watched. On the other hand Rudolph seems to better balance a sense of privacy and collaboration. Yale students also (from her perspective) seem to be more of the troublemaker activist types whereas Harvard tends to aim more toward corporate firms.
On the other end, my conversations with current GSD students have been utterly fantastic. They've taken time to speak with me and can really articulate points (whereas my instagram DMs to Yale students have been a little lackluster). I don't think the "competitive cutthroat" reputation of the GSD is much of an issue these days. Living in Cambridge also has its perks (but is more expensive). I think that their larger, more diverse program, is appealing because you're able to be exposed to so many different fields (within design). However from my emails with Faculty from the GSD, it's pretty much limited to 20 minute slots that you schedule through a link (seems a little limited/impersonal). Yale has fantastic connections with the environmental school and also has more elective slots than the GSD so you are able to explore those. Yale's limitations are that it doesn't have as diverse a selection of classes within the school of architecture. The GSD is the opposite - lots of courses but few slots.
I'm still trying to figure out which school better suits me. Would love to talk to other students who are also thinking the same.
are you m.arch 1 or 2? you seem to have a much stronger alignments with Yale then the GSD. And your observations about ysoa's trajectory seems accurate. Especially with it's new leadership
I'm M.Arch 1. I think GSD is somewhat TBD at the moment since I'm scheduling some calls with professors. However they're doing a great job hosting little events for students to start meeting each other. So far Yale admin has been a little MIA.
since you're march 1, i'd recommend ysoa. you'd have more time to be part of what you described - and to play a role in it. i always recommend to go to a place where you will not only grow, but will have a big impact. harvard is more corporate, but the real distinction is the size. princeton, ysoa and mit are serious/realistic about trying to make attendance affordable, gsd is not as able to because of it's size. either way, both schools are excellent and have strong alumni networks. there isn't a wrong choice.
i think generally ysoa is having a tough time with their admissions logistic. but that is more of an administration droping the ball and not indictive of what the school is like pedagogically. are both schools giving you good financial aid?
I've got the same amount of aid from both schools, but YSoA is a little less expensive since it's a shorter program. Will definitely try to reach out and negotiate for more aid. I'm a little curious about your background actually? Were you a GSD/YSoA student?
well, you can certainly use gsd offer to pursued ysoa to give you a 2-4 thousand bucks. and neither, i went to gsapp. my partner went to ysoa. good luck
you all are making me question whether i should go to GSD : ( and feeling bad about not having the option to go to ysoa ...
I've had the same experience with yale students thru Instagram dm haha, its a little difficult to get advice from them :(
I went to MIT for undergrad and had a lot of GSD faculty on my reviews. I definitely found a lot of them aloof and impersonal, more interested in raising their own talking points than actually discussing your work. I didn't attend the GSD, so this is obviously a brief and possibly biased opinion. But your feelings about limited/impersonal contact with GSD faculty don't surprise me based on my limited experience with them.
At the same time, from conversations with current GSD students, I've heard that there are professors that have actually just sat down with them to talk through assignments that they had trouble with and offer advice - generally making themselves pretty available. So it likely balances out across the faculty (they're more geographically diverse but that affects their availability).
I know this thread is for yale vs gsd, but if anyone has any opinions on yale vs penn, please help me out! here is the link https://archinect.com/forum/th...