I haven't been able to find any clear direction on what kind of gutter style to use on a 1900 Craftsman/Farmhouse style home. 1/2 round with external hangers? From what I can tell it looks like gutters were not a popular item in So Cal and this type of home but we are trying to divert the water from the stoop. Gutter contractor thought rain chains would be appropriate and while they look nice it didn't seem age appropriate.
I would also be interested in getting some input regarding downspouts and how to get around a beam with detracting from the houses beams/rafters. (see pics)
Thanks in advace
Non Sequitur
Feb 4, 21 7:18 pm
I like the yellow-painted window frames.
Also, listen to your contractor. That's what your paying them for, right?
joeroach
Feb 4, 21 7:26 pm
Non Sequitur, thanks but the contractor is also on the fence between downspout and rain-chain. The house qualifies as "historic" and would like to keep moving in that direction.
b3tadine[sutures]
Feb 4, 21 8:16 pm
Seems rather a long drop for a chain, however, what if you continue the line of the gutter, create a "scupper" to a chain, into a rain barrel, or a water element in the garden?
Wood Guy
Feb 4, 21 8:22 pm
If you have to do a gutter, I'd probably lean toward half-round copper with a round copper downspout. I believe rain chains are a Japanese detail and there is certainly Japanese influence in California Craftsman-style design, so they could be considered appropriate. Personally I usually do ground gutters: https://www.finehomebuilding.c....
b3tadine[sutures]
Feb 4, 21 8:36 pm
I like that detail.
proto
Feb 4, 21 11:20 pm
Very splashy if you do end up with any reasonable precip
Everyday Architect
Feb 5, 21 12:13 am
Thanks for linking to that article and detail, WG. I need to do something like this along one side(s) of my house. Lot slopes from front to back. One downspout at front of the house is backing up and overflowing at grade where it enters an underground drainpipe. There's a natural low spot there so it puddles up and covers half my driveway every time it rains. Likely the drainpipe is clogged or collapsed, and from previous experience it's likely all these drain pipes are just routed around the foundation and daylight in the crawlspace. We have a sump pump down there that kicks on about every 30-60 secs when it's raining steadily (too much in my opinion).
Plan is to do something like this to take rainwater that collects in that low spot, and from that downspout (and others) to the back yard and daylight it into a rain garden keeping as much water as possible out of crawlspace. In theory it will work, I just need to figure out if I have enough drop in grade from front to back to accommodate daylighting the drain if I maintain an appropriate slope in the drain pipe.
Volunteer
Feb 5, 21 6:11 am
I had the same problem with water pooling in the front yard. At the bottom of the downspout on the corner of the house install a 90 degree elbow to the downspout and position the outlet so it points alongside the house toward the corner of the house. Then attach another 90 degree elbow to the first so that the outlet is pointed to the rear of the house and attach a 4" diameter PVC pipe routed along the side of the house to the rear of the house. You can screen the PVC pipe with plants if not already screened by plants. Has worked perfectly for years.
Wood Guy
Feb 5, 21 11:31 am
Proto, it can be splashy but here in the NE US we get about 40-45" of rain a year, including several large events and as long as the wall can dry I have not noticed any issues. I try to keep the top of foundation at least 8-12" above grade and use 1 1/2" or 3" stone for the drip course. I wrote that article in 2013 and have used ground gutters many times before and after that and can't think of any failures. This was one of the first ones I did, in 2008 or 9: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/ground-gutters.
proto
Feb 5, 21 4:47 pm
my personal pref is not to have "high waters" for cladding systems that visually want to run to the ground, but that's not a hard/fast rule...sometimes a plinth showing off the foundation is just the ticket
joeroach
Feb 4, 21 8:45 pm
b3tadine, I agree...maybe a plain chain but buckets draw too much attention. Scupper or Leader Head? I like your idea of splitting but I still need to get around those beams.
Woodguy, I didn't consider the Japanese element. Thanks.
All gutter might end with below ground cisterns but the city has signed off yet.
SneakyPete
Feb 4, 21 8:52 pm
can you not simply snug them in a bit more so the slip past the beam tails?
Wood Guy
Feb 5, 21 11:41 am
Joe, could you move the downspout over to the next post to the left? It looks like it would still clear the window. Another option for a downspout is a common, traditional detail on Nantucket, where I used to live--use 2" pvc for the downspout and wrap it with trim so you end up with a square box about 5" x 5". I'm having a hard time finding an example but if you look closely you can see it on this project (that my brother helped build): https://jbrownbuilders.com/nantucket-custom-home-shimmo/
jeiffert
Feb 5, 21 4:31 pm
I would second Wood Guy's suggestion; routing the downspout over the next post to the left. I generally try to route downspouts well away from corners when I'm using mitered bevel siding or mitered shingles. It'd a shame to cover the miter detail.
SneakyPete
Feb 4, 21 8:52 pm
rain chains don't work very well if there's any wind, especially long ones
joeroach
Feb 4, 21 9:33 pm
SneakyPete, It might be me but I have a hard time not putting a gutter at/near the edge. Is that what you meant by 'slip past the beam"?
Good point about the wind and chains.
Has anybody seen a bifurcated approach to getting around the beam? ie: if 3" round copper tubing is used for the downspouts, split it into two smaller/thiner spouts and put one on each side (attached rough drawing).
b3tadine[sutures]
Feb 4, 21 9:47 pm
Bad idea. Don't.
citizen
Feb 5, 21 4:45 pm
That looks like it was conceived by someone who's never seen water or rain before. (Note all the many, many joints that cannot wait to fail and start leaking.)
joeroach
Feb 4, 21 10:00 pm
just spitballing... thoughts on boring a hole through the beam?
Not a fan of the idea as we would have to protect the beam in some way but the lines are cleaner.
Non Sequitur
Feb 4, 21 11:30 pm
no. don't touch the beams.
midlander
Feb 4, 21 10:16 pm
i don't do residential so i'm speaking with the insight of ignorance here: if you're only putting a gutter over the stoop, build it out in wood with a lining and let it spill off the exterior side into the landscape. i imagine for the infrequent heavy rain there it won't be a serious issue and this would minimize impact on the look of the roofline.
it's a great house. i'd love to paint it lighter colors and really emphasize the dramatic roof overhangs.
Non Sequitur
Feb 4, 21 11:32 pm
yes, an nice open-ended gutter with a slight projection each side. Just got to position some landscaping inside the splash zone.
joeroach
Feb 4, 21 10:46 pm
midlander, creative!
proto
Feb 4, 21 11:30 pm
maybe down the corner? [at a diagonal]
Stand-off made w/ flat strap shaped around round copper down spout & fastened at col
Everyday Architect
Feb 4, 21 11:41 pm
beat me to it
Everyday Architect
Feb 4, 21 11:54 pm
.
Everyday Architect
Feb 4, 21 11:40 pm
I have no idea if it would be stylistically "correct" but I'd consider putting the downspout at the peak/arris of the corner, at 45 degrees to the corner, so it would run down tucked between the beam tails(?). Blue line on your photo...
I'd also probably opt for a round downspout with a modified version of the hanger style depicted in FIG 1-35J below so it attaches on either side of the corner and comes off at 45 degrees to the corner.
b3tadine[sutures]
Feb 5, 21 6:19 am
Yep, this was the only other thing I could consider, the strap could be nicely designed too.
Volunteer
Feb 5, 21 7:56 am
Seems like you could use the intersection of the beams as sturdy surfaces to brace the downspout if the downspout was square in cross-section at that point. Use an offset above and below the beams to adjust the alignment before and after the transition through the intersecting beams.
joeroach
Feb 5, 21 4:00 pm
Thanks to all for your input.
We will be looking at a combination of the ideas suggested above: Mount on the diagonal (thanks proto), a scupper halfway down (thanks b3tadine)!
I haven't been able to find any clear direction on what kind of gutter style to use on a 1900 Craftsman/Farmhouse style home. 1/2 round with external hangers? From what I can tell it looks like gutters were not a popular item in So Cal and this type of home but we are trying to divert the water from the stoop. Gutter contractor thought rain chains would be appropriate and while they look nice it didn't seem age appropriate.
I would also be interested in getting some input regarding downspouts and how to get around a beam with detracting from the houses beams/rafters. (see pics)
Thanks in advace
I like the yellow-painted window frames.
Also, listen to your contractor. That's what your paying them for, right?
Non Sequitur, thanks but the contractor is also on the fence between downspout and rain-chain. The house qualifies as "historic" and would like to keep moving in that direction.
Seems rather a long drop for a chain, however, what if you continue the line of the gutter, create a "scupper" to a chain, into a rain barrel, or a water element in the garden?
If you have to do a gutter, I'd probably lean toward half-round copper with a round copper downspout. I believe rain chains are a Japanese detail and there is certainly Japanese influence in California Craftsman-style design, so they could be considered appropriate. Personally I usually do ground gutters: https://www.finehomebuilding.c....
I like that detail.
Very splashy if you do end up with any reasonable precip
Thanks for linking to that article and detail, WG. I need to do something like this along one side(s) of my house. Lot slopes from front to back. One downspout at front of the house is backing up and overflowing at grade where it enters an underground drainpipe. There's a natural low spot there so it puddles up and covers half my driveway every time it rains. Likely the drainpipe is clogged or collapsed, and from previous experience it's likely all these drain pipes are just routed around the foundation and daylight in the crawlspace. We have a sump pump down there that kicks on about every 30-60 secs when it's raining steadily (too much in my opinion).
Plan is to do something like this to take rainwater that collects in that low spot, and from that downspout (and others) to the back yard and daylight it into a rain garden keeping as much water as possible out of crawlspace. In theory it will work, I just need to figure out if I have enough drop in grade from front to back to accommodate daylighting the drain if I maintain an appropriate slope in the drain pipe.
I had the same problem with water pooling in the front yard. At the bottom of the downspout on the corner of the house install a 90 degree elbow to the downspout and position the outlet so it points alongside the house toward the corner of the house. Then attach another 90 degree elbow to the first so that the outlet is pointed to the rear of the house and attach a 4" diameter PVC pipe routed along the side of the house to the rear of the house. You can screen the PVC pipe with plants if not already screened by plants. Has worked perfectly for years.
Proto, it can be splashy but here in the NE US we get about 40-45" of rain a year, including several large events and as long as the wall can dry I have not noticed any issues. I try to keep the top of foundation at least 8-12" above grade and use 1 1/2" or 3" stone for the drip course. I wrote that article in 2013 and have used ground gutters many times before and after that and can't think of any failures. This was one of the first ones I did, in 2008 or 9: https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/article/ground-gutters.
my personal pref is not to have "high waters" for cladding systems that visually want to run to the ground, but that's not a hard/fast rule...sometimes a plinth showing off the foundation is just the ticket
b3tadine, I agree...maybe a plain chain but buckets draw too much attention. Scupper or Leader Head? I like your idea of splitting but I still need to get around those beams.
Woodguy, I didn't consider the Japanese element. Thanks.
All gutter might end with below ground cisterns but the city has signed off yet.
can you not simply snug them in a bit more so the slip past the beam tails?
Joe, could you move the downspout over to the next post to the left? It looks like it would still clear the window. Another option for a downspout is a common, traditional detail on Nantucket, where I used to live--use 2" pvc for the downspout and wrap it with trim so you end up with a square box about 5" x 5". I'm having a hard time finding an example but if you look closely you can see it on this project (that my brother helped build): https://jbrownbuilders.com/nantucket-custom-home-shimmo/
I would second Wood Guy's suggestion; routing the downspout over the next post to the left. I generally try to route downspouts well away from corners when I'm using mitered bevel siding or mitered shingles. It'd a shame to cover the miter detail.
rain chains don't work very well if there's any wind, especially long ones
SneakyPete, It might be me but I have a hard time not putting a gutter at/near the edge. Is that what you meant by 'slip past the beam"?
Good point about the wind and chains.
Has anybody seen a bifurcated approach to getting around the beam? ie: if 3" round copper tubing is used for the downspouts, split it into two smaller/thiner spouts and put one on each side (attached rough drawing).
Bad idea. Don't.
That looks like it was conceived by someone who's never seen water or rain before. (Note all the many, many joints that cannot wait to fail and start leaking.)
just spitballing... thoughts on boring a hole through the beam?
Not a fan of the idea as we would have to protect the beam in some way but the lines are cleaner.
no. don't touch the beams.
i don't do residential so i'm speaking with the insight of ignorance here: if you're only putting a gutter over the stoop, build it out in wood with a lining and let it spill off the exterior side into the landscape. i imagine for the infrequent heavy rain there it won't be a serious issue and this would minimize impact on the look of the roofline.
it's a great house. i'd love to paint it lighter colors and really emphasize the dramatic roof overhangs.
yes, an nice open-ended gutter with a slight projection each side. Just got to position some landscaping inside the splash zone.
midlander, creative!
maybe down the corner? [at a diagonal]
Stand-off made w/ flat strap shaped around round copper down spout & fastened at col
beat me to it
.
I have no idea if it would be stylistically "correct" but I'd consider putting the downspout at the peak/arris of the corner, at 45 degrees to the corner, so it would run down tucked between the beam tails(?). Blue line on your photo...
I'd also probably opt for a round downspout with a modified version of the hanger style depicted in FIG 1-35J below so it attaches on either side of the corner and comes off at 45 degrees to the corner.
Yep, this was the only other thing I could consider, the strap could be nicely designed too.
Seems like you could use the intersection of the beams as sturdy surfaces to brace the downspout if the downspout was square in cross-section at that point. Use an offset above and below the beams to adjust the alignment before and after the transition through the intersecting beams.
Thanks to all for your input.
We will be looking at a combination of the ideas suggested above: Mount on the diagonal (thanks proto), a scupper halfway down (thanks b3tadine)!
Where do we send the invoice?