A contractor called me, (who bid on a project I had years ago ‐ he did not get the job) and basically asked me to do floor plains for 2-story single family house for free for the Owner, who will review plans for best "flow" and go with whichever plans/architect work best for her. He said this is a standard procedure-submiting free layouts to get the job-in his area which is North New Jersey. Not a practice where I am. I was at first thinking "no way", but now I wander if it's in fact a common practice in some areas. Anyone here from North NJ to comment?
What is happening in our profession?...
Non Sequitur
Dec 23, 20 5:02 pm
Definitively not standard... more like big fucking scam. Just another slimy spec-build contractor drumming free ideas.
Chad Miller
Dec 23, 20 5:14 pm
Not common. It's a scam.
Jay1122
Dec 23, 20 6:25 pm
I am from the region but I don't do residential. Just my random 2 cents. It is not that absurd as it sounds. The project is low end 2x4 wood stick vinyl residential like the spec build. You basically ask client how many bed & bath and pull off from your library, plan book or spend 1 Hr to free flow draft a quick schematic floor plan. Think of it as preparing proposal. I have seen a proposal for a public work that won included schematic plans, major assembly systems, even types of doors to be used, etc. You do what you do to win projects. Those residential projects are not asking for a CD set. Now I am not defending it. Personally, I don't think those spec houses are architecture work. They are just fast cash, it is fairly competitive. If you are successful, of course don't even bother with spec house or mcmansion.
why_not_architecture
Dec 23, 20 7:15 pm
Yes, for public work, big projects that are millions of dollars, schools, etc. done by medium to big firms it's common. I worked for a firm that would go to interview with clients with full blown design and rederings. For one man show for residential it's a killer and should not be acceptable IMO.
thisisnotmyname
Dec 23, 20 7:30 pm
A lot of people who build mcmansions want to get the drawings as cheaply as possible.
atelier nobody
Dec 23, 20 6:34 pm
No.
citizen
Dec 23, 20 7:47 pm
Anything you provide should look no more developed than this.
why_not_architecture
Dec 23, 20 10:53 pm
Ha-ha! Yea, I agree and also would not get me the job.
citizen
Dec 25, 20 1:26 am
Could free work up front lead to subsequent paid work? Of course it's possible. But the much more common scenario is that the paid work somehow never materializes once the free work is turned in.
randomised
Dec 25, 20 7:32 pm
Thanks for that free floor plan!
thisisnotmyname
Dec 28, 20 12:27 pm
The interior designer says to please add a mud room and combine the living room and kitchen into an open concept great room. Please revise and send ASAP!!!
citizen
Dec 28, 20 12:38 pm
^ Perfect.
To the OP: that message above you can expect to get about thirty times on different changes. Most will end with multiple exclamation points. And from what you say, you shouldn't expect any $$$ for that time and effort.
Wilma Buttfit
Dec 23, 20 8:30 pm
Why doesn't the contractor do the plan for free? Why should you have do it? Architects get paid to draw plans. Maybe the owner can google free plans and pick one that way?
I suppose they also want you to work on it over Christmas too. Get on it!
Let's start a rumor that contractors PAY to work. It's just how it works. They have to do it shirtless too. And need to toned and tan or GET OUT.
urbanity
Dec 23, 20 9:05 pm
the contractor is just taking your temperature to assess just how much free work they can get out of you
x-jla
Dec 28, 20 12:33 pm
Yup, and they are taking it rectally.
why_not_architecture
Dec 23, 20 10:57 pm
I was going to call him back and ask him to frame a house for me for free, so my client can see if he likes it.
After all this years I still cannot figure out why all contractors are more or less scam bags....
Non Sequitur
Dec 23, 20 11:36 pm
they always were scum bags. some are just less scummy than others.
caramelhighrise
Dec 24, 20 11:23 pm
Sorry, pretty inexperienced here. Wouldn't there be a way to submit a proposal with whatever contracts necessary to keep it confidential? Maybe not worth the time and risk for this group, but this sounds like a sketchier, informal version of a RFP.
randomised
Dec 25, 20 7:34 pm
There’s no such thing as a free layout!
bowling_ball
Dec 26, 20 1:09 am
Here's an idea. Let's say it takes you 3 hours to sketch up a rough floor plan (I don't know, I don't do residential). Propose to the contractor that you get paid for those three hours, and if you get the contract, you'll give them back the money (as a cost of doing business for you). Their reaction will tell you if they're serious or not.
x-jla
Dec 26, 20 1:26 am
Never ever do that.
apscoradiales
Dec 26, 20 10:48 am
"...Non Sequitur
they always were scum bags. some are just less scummy than others..."
Hi all!
I would like to take a pulse on a issue.
A contractor called me, (who bid on a project I had years ago ‐ he did not get the job) and basically asked me to do floor plains for 2-story single family house for free for the Owner, who will review plans for best "flow" and go with whichever plans/architect work best for her. He said this is a standard procedure-submiting free layouts to get the job-in his area which is North New Jersey. Not a practice where I am. I was at first thinking "no way", but now I wander if it's in fact a common practice in some areas. Anyone here from North NJ to comment?
What is happening in our profession?...
Definitively not standard... more like big fucking scam. Just another slimy spec-build contractor drumming free ideas.
Not common. It's a scam.
I am from the region but I don't do residential. Just my random 2 cents. It is not that absurd as it sounds. The project is low end 2x4 wood stick vinyl residential like the spec build. You basically ask client how many bed & bath and pull off from your library, plan book or spend 1 Hr to free flow draft a quick schematic floor plan. Think of it as preparing proposal. I have seen a proposal for a public work that won included schematic plans, major assembly systems, even types of doors to be used, etc. You do what you do to win projects. Those residential projects are not asking for a CD set. Now I am not defending it. Personally, I don't think those spec houses are architecture work. They are just fast cash, it is fairly competitive. If you are successful, of course don't even bother with spec house or mcmansion.
Yes, for public work, big projects that are millions of dollars, schools, etc. done by medium to big firms it's common. I worked for a firm that would go to interview with clients with full blown design and rederings. For one man show for residential it's a killer and should not be acceptable IMO.
A lot of people who build mcmansions want to get the drawings as cheaply as possible.
No.
Anything you provide should look no more developed than this.
Ha-ha! Yea, I agree and also would not get me the job.
Could free work up front lead to subsequent paid work? Of course it's possible. But the much more common scenario is that the paid work somehow never materializes once the free work is turned in.
Thanks for that free floor plan!
The interior designer says to please add a mud room and combine the living room and kitchen into an open concept great room. Please revise and send ASAP!!!
^ Perfect.
To the OP: that message above you can expect to get about thirty times on different changes. Most will end with multiple exclamation points. And from what you say, you shouldn't expect any $$$ for that time and effort.
Why doesn't the contractor do the plan for free? Why should you have do it? Architects get paid to draw plans. Maybe the owner can google free plans and pick one that way?
I suppose they also want you to work on it over Christmas too. Get on it!
Let's start a rumor that contractors PAY to work. It's just how it works. They have to do it shirtless too. And need to toned and tan or GET OUT.
the contractor is just taking your temperature to assess just how much free work they can get out of you
Yup, and they are taking it rectally.
I was going to call him back and ask him to frame a house for me for free, so my client can see if he likes it.
After all this years I still cannot figure out why all contractors are more or less scam bags....
they always were scum bags. some are just less scummy than others.
Sorry, pretty inexperienced here. Wouldn't there be a way to submit a proposal with whatever contracts necessary to keep it confidential? Maybe not worth the time and risk for this group, but this sounds like a sketchier, informal version of a RFP.
There’s no such thing as a free layout!
Here's an idea. Let's say it takes you 3 hours to sketch up a rough floor plan (I don't know, I don't do residential). Propose to the contractor that you get paid for those three hours, and if you get the contract, you'll give them back the money (as a cost of doing business for you). Their reaction will tell you if they're serious or not.
Never ever do that.
"...Non Sequitur
they always were scum bags. some are just less scummy than others..."
Bah, that's just you...;)))...!
Joyeux Noël...!!!