We've all been there, we need to send a consultant something to look at, by email as you need to send attachments...and nothing, not even a I'll look at it next Tuesday. So you send the polite reminder. Then another, and then another. Then you give up, because clearly by now they are not on holiday, they are simply not going to respond to YOU.
How to get consultants to have enough manners to at least acknowledge they have been sent something, when they are the responsible person for dealing with something?
How do we stop this time wasting merry go round, where the person needing the answers never gets them, and yet if they start being impolite, they've broken the rules of being nice and minding their manners?
Doing my head in.
I'm at the point where I'm going to refuse to even go ask questions of some people unless I am convinced I will get a response.
Wall-E
Oct 5, 20 11:32 am
Call and tell them if they don't reply you would need to take this matter to your senior or boss. Convey this on call and mail. Keep mentioning dates and how late they replied.
This will do the job
Chuck71
Oct 6, 20 3:04 am
Closest thing to a PM is my boss, copied in every email. Next closest thing, lead project designer, copied in every email, along with the Site Architect/Design Manager who does nothing himself, ever.
I guess I could copy in more people (the Prime Minister?) but given no one of my project does anything, ever, I'm not sure what good it would do.
I've had similar situations where I gave up after 5 or 6 emails, and in that list were the consultant responsible for an obviously poor design, the PM, lead designer, main designer of the relevant package, the design managers, site architect, the site mechanical engineer.
Not a single response from a single person...and yet months later, they are all bewildered when they find the problem I raised so many times!
Maybe I'm just working on a poorly run project where no one takes responsibility as there are no consequences for failure to work with anyone else, and with no communication protocols (but ironically a project information system they all ignore) they are free to ignore what they want anyway.
midlander
Oct 6, 20 8:54 am
this sounds like a completely dysfunctional office. do they do good work?
joseffischer
Oct 6, 20 9:53 am
I've had this happen, more often with in-office "consultants" we're an A&E for struct and MEP. I've had everyone from the director of E, principal in charge, and chairman of company weigh in on the worst offenders, and it still happens. The two things that make any movement (and it's definitely not playing nice and/or being polite)
1. stand at their desk and talk at them about the problem until they actively work on it and don't leave until their done. Shoe away anyone else that comes to their desk. (Yes this includes going to consultants' offices if they're in the city)
2. Bill them (as PM I have more discretion to do so). I get my guys on the arch side to open up their books, run the structural software, etc and figure it out (only if we have time and only really as a stunt, because the whole thing has to be redone by the engineer in question) I then send the RFI or what have you to the engineer saying "here's the answer you ****, please confirm in an hour our I'll be at your desk" and then I have all those hours billed under engineering or I have our admin staff send an invoice to the consultant.
Step 2 is drastic, never actually creates money, and is only done after the umpteen emails, calls, teams pings, etc... but it seems to get them in line for another 3 months or so.
joseffischer
Oct 6, 20 9:59 am
I'll also say that none of this is healthy and offices resorting to these methods are obviously dysfunctional. I give all involved the benefit of the doubt (especially during covid) and assume they're actually doing a great job at whatever they're working on, and we're just understaffed. The only way to correct a staffing issue is to start causing the firm owners money (see step 2).
SneakyPete
Oct 5, 20 11:44 am
After the job is over make sure that your PM knows this consultant performed poorly. If you are the PM, do not solicit proposals from them again. Also if you are leadership a candid conversation with the consultant about their unsatisfactory performance based on the contractual obligations and such would be a good idea.
apscoradiales
Oct 5, 20 11:49 am
Call them and ask them what's up.
maybe their systems are down or maybe you have been sending the questions to a wrong firm.
I dealt with a consultant once; there was another (in Seattle of all things!) with same name, but a slightly different email address.
I was screwing up.
Chuck71
Oct 6, 20 3:04 am
No, going to the right person, right email address, not so stupid I'd get that wrong.
spiketwig
Oct 5, 20 12:23 pm
Steps:
1. Call them
2. If you are the PM: cc' their boss (the consultant's principal in charge) on your next follow up email. If you are not the PM, tell your PM and they will do this.
3. PM has a direct conversation about expectations and contractual obligations.
3a. Repeat until project is completed.
4. Do not solicit further proposals from this consultant if they are not performing. (optional bonus: tell the consultant you're considering this if they don't get it together - remember: you pay them, you're the client).
archinine
Oct 5, 20 12:27 pm
Elevate to their company’s ownership. Whoever signed the actual contract at the consultancy will have contact info on the contract. Call that person directly and explain the situation, ask for that persons email and attach all your unresponded to correspondence.
Don’t bother sending more emails or calls to whoever has been ignoring you if it’s been 3+ attempts and over 1-2 weeks. Just go over their head at that point.
In the future the fastest way to get answers is to pick up the phone. Younger people seem to be very anti phone for some reason. Even better if you ring their cell. Hunt them down to get the answers. Emails are passive and easy to ignore. Constant calls and texts not so much. Squeaky wheel gets the oil.
proto
Oct 5, 20 6:47 pm
most often, folks are busy and responding to the loudest cries first -- make sure you fit that criteria (politely)
be persistent and polite...sometimes you have to demonstrate that you will not politely wait forever until their queue clears. Irritate them with polite messages and in each of the multivarious ways you can contact them.
if it continues start cc'ing the people who really shouldn't have to deal with this shit but can make something happen (managers/bosses, etc)
Chuck71
Oct 6, 20 3:15 am
My boss in the loop from day 1, the person in my firm who recommended this POS also in the loop, and I've spoken to both of them about it I think twice and asked what the problem is, only to be told 'keep trying' without either of them doing anything to help the situation, leaving it in my lap saves them being responsible for anything.
midlander
Oct 6, 20 1:33 am
have you worked with this person/ office before? it's normal to defer work and respond with a bit of delay. but if there's totally no response at all i'd assume they aren't getting the messages. you need to contact the office directly to find out why.
Chuck71
Oct 6, 20 3:13 am
I've done that before, they got upset I spoke to their head office.
midlander
Oct 6, 20 8:52 am
and they still didn't respond? what are we missing? why is the relationship with this consultant so bad that they criticize reasonable efforts to get a response? and why does your office continue keeping them on? also what is the nature of their work role that there is only one issue to contact them about in six months as described below? don't they have deliverables to... deliver?
joseffischer
Oct 6, 20 10:03 am
this is a good thing, this proves that's what you should do. Start your conversation with the head of office with a "I'm sorry to call you again on this project, but RFI such-and-such is a hot one, so I just skipped past *insert name* as we all know they never respond in a timely manner and cause us to miss our contractual obligations".
First thing that head honcho will do after he hangs up is walk over to that person, slap the RFI on his desk and say whatever version of "get this out today or you're fired" that those two have with their relationship.
Sadly, this is not a permanent fix, you have to rinse wash repeat every time.
Koww
Oct 6, 20 3:00 am
best thing is to set up a weekly coordination meeting with an agenda, sent in advance, and actually follow the agenda in the meeting. Then, follow up with well-taken meeting notes/minutes, and get dates for when the consultant will get back to you on any open items.
Chuck71
Oct 6, 20 3:13 am
A weekly coordination meeting, for the one problem raised in the last 6 months?
JLC-1
Oct 6, 20 10:48 am
pick up the phone. and scream if necessary.
Wilma Buttfit
Oct 7, 20 6:16 am
Slap em with fines for delaying projects and causing other people to lose money. Then TP their house.
awaiting_deletion
Oct 7, 20 6:49 am
TP always works!
awaiting_deletion
Oct 7, 20 6:49 am
throw them under the bus in front of the client, but you know very politely in written form with dates and how it is delaying everything. if that means going around your PM, etc...maybe not a good idea, but throwing people under the bus in front of the clients usually works or if they are MEP engineers (NOT). MEP engineers, often on the far end of the spectrum, don't even get that sometimes - but you need them apparently.
Peter Normand
Oct 7, 20 8:36 am
If it is a serious delay, more than 3-4 weeks, I would tell them flat out they have to get this and future submittals or IFC drawings in on time or we will be terminating the contract and suing for damages, and we also will be black listing them from all of our future work. I only once had to do this and the consultant's principal personally handled things until the project was done no delays. But always document the communications and keep tabs of the consultants names who are not working to keep the project on schedule and don't use them again especialy if they tend to firm hop.
Most delays from consultants are the result of the chains of communication. The contractor post and RFI, you upload it, read it and send it to the consultant, they then find it in their email and schedule time to work on it. This can take 2-3 days just to shuffle it around between your two offices. I always try to get the items I need from consultants out first thing, especially if they are not in our office.
I also find that for any project is if you don't have a consistent point person coordinating the consultant's, and hopefully developing good rapport and communications habits your project will suffer.
Hope this helps, it is very frustrating to have to wait on others to get your work moving forward.
Over and OUT
Peter N
thatsthat
Oct 7, 20 9:55 am
If it is something I need right now, I will literally email and call every hour on the hour until I get what I need. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. This is only for cases where we are up against a tight deadline, they promised they would get something to me on a specific day by EOB, and its now the next day and I still haven't heard a peep. I know they probably hate me, but with some of our consultants its not "we are working on it" but they literally will tell me "I forgot to do it." I'd rather they just lie tbh. Also, as a woman on the younger side, I find most older male consultants won't answer my calls, but then 2 minutes later, they call my older male boss and give them all of the excuses. "I'll get it to you tomorrow! I'm so sorry for the delay!" Most of the time the boss will go easier on them because he wasn't the one keeping track of the overall schedule.
Chad Miller
Oct 7, 20 10:40 am
Sit on them. It helps if you're heavy.
BabbleBeautiful
Oct 9, 20 3:13 pm
You asked a similar question three years ago... Has your tactics not changed since? Any lessons learned?
We've all been there, we need to send a consultant something to look at, by email as you need to send attachments...and nothing, not even a I'll look at it next Tuesday. So you send the polite reminder. Then another, and then another. Then you give up, because clearly by now they are not on holiday, they are simply not going to respond to YOU.
How to get consultants to have enough manners to at least acknowledge they have been sent something, when they are the responsible person for dealing with something?
How do we stop this time wasting merry go round, where the person needing the answers never gets them, and yet if they start being impolite, they've broken the rules of being nice and minding their manners?
Doing my head in.
I'm at the point where I'm going to refuse to even go ask questions of some people unless I am convinced I will get a response.
Call and tell them if they don't reply you would need to take this matter to your senior or boss. Convey this on call and mail. Keep mentioning dates and how late they replied.
This will do the job
Closest thing to a PM is my boss, copied in every email. Next closest thing, lead project designer, copied in every email, along with the Site Architect/Design Manager who does nothing himself, ever.
I guess I could copy in more people (the Prime Minister?) but given no one of my project does anything, ever, I'm not sure what good it would do.
I've had similar situations where I gave up after 5 or 6 emails, and in that list were the consultant responsible for an obviously poor design, the PM, lead designer, main designer of the relevant package, the design managers, site architect, the site mechanical engineer.
Not a single response from a single person...and yet months later, they are all bewildered when they find the problem I raised so many times!
Maybe I'm just working on a poorly run project where no one takes responsibility as there are no consequences for failure to work with anyone else, and with no communication protocols (but ironically a project information system they all ignore) they are free to ignore what they want anyway.
this sounds like a completely dysfunctional office. do they do good work?
I've had this happen, more often with in-office "consultants" we're an A&E for struct and MEP. I've had everyone from the director of E, principal in charge, and chairman of company weigh in on the worst offenders, and it still happens. The two things that make any movement (and it's definitely not playing nice and/or being polite)
1. stand at their desk and talk at them about the problem until they actively work on it and don't leave until their done. Shoe away anyone else that comes to their desk. (Yes this includes going to consultants' offices if they're in the city)
2. Bill them (as PM I have more discretion to do so). I get my guys on the arch side to open up their books, run the structural software, etc and figure it out (only if we have time and only really as a stunt, because the whole thing has to be redone by the engineer in question) I then send the RFI or what have you to the engineer saying "here's the answer you ****, please confirm in an hour our I'll be at your desk" and then I have all those hours billed under engineering or I have our admin staff send an invoice to the consultant.
Step 2 is drastic, never actually creates money, and is only done after the umpteen emails, calls, teams pings, etc... but it seems to get them in line for another 3 months or so.
I'll also say that none of this is healthy and offices resorting to these methods are obviously dysfunctional. I give all involved the benefit of the doubt (especially during covid) and assume they're actually doing a great job at whatever they're working on, and we're just understaffed. The only way to correct a staffing issue is to start causing the firm owners money (see step 2).
After the job is over make sure that your PM knows this consultant performed poorly. If you are the PM, do not solicit proposals from them again. Also if you are leadership a candid conversation with the consultant about their unsatisfactory performance based on the contractual obligations and such would be a good idea.
Call them and ask them what's up.
maybe their systems are down or maybe you have been sending the questions to a wrong firm.
I dealt with a consultant once; there was another (in Seattle of all things!) with same name, but a slightly different email address.
I was screwing up.
No, going to the right person, right email address, not so stupid I'd get that wrong.
Steps:
1. Call them
2. If you are the PM: cc' their boss (the consultant's principal in charge) on your next follow up email. If you are not the PM, tell your PM and they will do this.
3. PM has a direct conversation about expectations and contractual obligations.
3a. Repeat until project is completed.
4. Do not solicit further proposals from this consultant if they are not performing. (optional bonus: tell the consultant you're considering this if they don't get it together - remember: you pay them, you're the client).
Elevate to their company’s ownership. Whoever signed the actual contract at the consultancy will have contact info on the contract. Call that person directly and explain the situation, ask for that persons email and attach all your unresponded to correspondence.
Don’t bother sending more emails or calls to whoever has been ignoring you if it’s been 3+ attempts and over 1-2 weeks. Just go over their head at that point.
In the future the fastest way to get answers is to pick up the phone. Younger people seem to be very anti phone for some reason. Even better if you ring their cell. Hunt them down to get the answers. Emails are passive and easy to ignore. Constant calls and texts not so much. Squeaky wheel gets the oil.
most often, folks are busy and responding to the loudest cries first -- make sure you fit that criteria (politely)
be persistent and polite...sometimes you have to demonstrate that you will not politely wait forever until their queue clears. Irritate them with polite messages and in each of the multivarious ways you can contact them.
if it continues start cc'ing the people who really shouldn't have to deal with this shit but can make something happen (managers/bosses, etc)
My boss in the loop from day 1, the person in my firm who recommended this POS also in the loop, and I've spoken to both of them about it I think twice and asked what the problem is, only to be told 'keep trying' without either of them doing anything to help the situation, leaving it in my lap saves them being responsible for anything.
have you worked with this person/ office before? it's normal to defer work and respond with a bit of delay. but if there's totally no response at all i'd assume they aren't getting the messages. you need to contact the office directly to find out why.
I've done that before, they got upset I spoke to their head office.
and they still didn't respond? what are we missing? why is the relationship with this consultant so bad that they criticize reasonable efforts to get a response? and why does your office continue keeping them on? also what is the nature of their work role that there is only one issue to contact them about in six months as described below? don't they have deliverables to... deliver?
this is a good thing, this proves that's what you should do. Start your conversation with the head of office with a "I'm sorry to call you again on this project, but RFI such-and-such is a hot one, so I just skipped past *insert name* as we all know they never respond in a timely manner and cause us to miss our contractual obligations".
First thing that head honcho will do after he hangs up is walk over to that person, slap the RFI on his desk and say whatever version of "get this out today or you're fired" that those two have with their relationship.
Sadly, this is not a permanent fix, you have to rinse wash repeat every time.
best thing is to set up a weekly coordination meeting with an agenda, sent in advance, and actually follow the agenda in the meeting. Then, follow up with well-taken meeting notes/minutes, and get dates for when the consultant will get back to you on any open items.
A weekly coordination meeting, for the one problem raised in the last 6 months?
pick up the phone. and scream if necessary.
Slap em with fines for delaying projects and causing other people to lose money. Then TP their house.
TP always works!
throw them under the bus in front of the client, but you know very politely in written form with dates and how it is delaying everything. if that means going around your PM, etc...maybe not a good idea, but throwing people under the bus in front of the clients usually works or if they are MEP engineers (NOT). MEP engineers, often on the far end of the spectrum, don't even get that sometimes - but you need them apparently.
If it is a serious delay, more than 3-4 weeks, I would tell them flat out they have to get this and future submittals or IFC drawings in on time or we will be terminating the contract and suing for damages, and we also will be black listing them from all of our future work. I only once had to do this and the consultant's principal personally handled things until the project was done no delays. But always document the communications and keep tabs of the consultants names who are not working to keep the project on schedule and don't use them again especialy if they tend to firm hop.
Most delays from consultants are the result of the chains of communication. The contractor post and RFI, you upload it, read it and send it to the consultant, they then find it in their email and schedule time to work on it. This can take 2-3 days just to shuffle it around between your two offices. I always try to get the items I need from consultants out first thing, especially if they are not in our office.
I also find that for any project is if you don't have a consistent point person coordinating the consultant's, and hopefully developing good rapport and communications habits your project will suffer.
Hope this helps, it is very frustrating to have to wait on others to get your work moving forward.
Over and OUT
Peter N
If it is something I need right now, I will literally email and call every hour on the hour until I get what I need. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. This is only for cases where we are up against a tight deadline, they promised they would get something to me on a specific day by EOB, and its now the next day and I still haven't heard a peep. I know they probably hate me, but with some of our consultants its not "we are working on it" but they literally will tell me "I forgot to do it." I'd rather they just lie tbh. Also, as a woman on the younger side, I find most older male consultants won't answer my calls, but then 2 minutes later, they call my older male boss and give them all of the excuses. "I'll get it to you tomorrow! I'm so sorry for the delay!" Most of the time the boss will go easier on them because he wasn't the one keeping track of the overall schedule.
Sit on them. It helps if you're heavy.
You asked a similar question three years ago... Has your tactics not changed since? Any lessons learned?