I'm in this situation in my life where I need an advise from someone with more experience. I feel that since I'm 28 years old, soon to be 29, and don't have a lot wiggle room left to waste more years without having a mentor's advise to put me on the right path, I guess. I know a lot of you will say, you're still young, which is true but I'm not 21 year older anymore!
While I was still at architecture school, I got my first job as a drafter at a steel fabricator, I knew Autocad and was basically just trying to find any office job without having to work in a restaurant or a gas station...
I graduated then started changing fabricators, just to chase a few more dollars per hour here and there. I was poor and money hungry and didn't really deeply think that my 20 something years are passing by without me gaining any architectural working knowledge. I didn't fall in love with steel detailing but I didn't hate neither.
In 2018, I founded DetailingFirm.com with a team of drafters and I went on my own chasing more money. Fast forward to this day, I have my steel detailing business. I'm proud of it and planning to keep it and hopefully expend it. But my love is still for architecture. I see myself one day managing an architectural practice and my detailing business.
I've tried to apply for many internship positions in the last year, I'm very open to an unpaid internship and I mention that in my applications as well. I think is doable to have a part time internship while spending 3-4 hours a day running the detailing business. I mostly do coordination and some checking so not too time consuming. My thoughts were that I can be at an architectural office all day even if the internship is just part time, where I can have 4 hours internship and 4 hours running the detailing business in between ( responding to emails, checking some shop drawings...etc)
One of the architect I applied to was very honest and told me, "why would I hire you and spend 1-2 years training you just so you leave me after you get your licence. You have your own business, I know you will not stick around" which is true.
Yes, I will not stick around but I thought if an architect spend a few months training me to become useful for him/her then I spend another year or two working for him/her unpaid, it would kinda pay of for him/her training time.
The pandemic apparently made thing more complicated.
I really don't know what to do at this point. I'm losing hope to ever get an entry level position, please let me know if you think I'm missing some point or if I'm presenting myself incorrectly to architectural firms.
One thing I'm not ready to do is to sell or close my steel detailing business just so an architectural firm would hire me for 50k a year. I can't do that from a financial stand point due to financial responsibilities I have to honor.
Your advise would greatly appreciated! Sorry for making this super long
Non Sequitur
Sep 15, 20 1:29 pm
Never work unpaid gigs... Never. full stop, shake your head, and re-read that again.
Keep your business and expand it. Once you've grown, take your profits and hire architects to work for you instead.
Re-read my first sentence.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:00 pm
I love the response, thank you. I really don't like to work for free, no one does. It's just my frustration that brought this idea to my mind.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:05 pm
I thought about hiring architects at some point in my life, I'm growing and I know I will be able to do that from a financial stand point at some point in the next 3-5 years, I just don't know how that will be doable legally. I can technically earn experience from an architect employee but legally, I don't think I can fulfill my AXP experience from someone who works for me, at least not in NY state. I know in other state, you can " become partner" with an architect and this partner can technically give you AXP experience legally. I'm just not sure if there will be any architect who is willing to partner with me, why would they do that? What am I going to give in return in this partnership? Office space and employees payroll?
Non Sequitur
Sep 15, 20 11:52 pm
You can't claim xp hours when you're mentor in on your own payroll. Pretty sure we've made this clear to you in your previous posts. Either take the IDP process seriously or give it up. Very little respect for those trying to weasel out and take shortcuts.
Jay1122
Sep 15, 20 1:40 pm
Before talking about how to find an entry job. Why would you want to get back to architecture if your detailing firm is doing well that you don't want to let go? Is your end goal being a licensed architect owning your own architecture practice and simultaneously owning steel detailing firm? First of all i would expect at least 5-10 years full time work experience to get comfortable to start solo architecture firm. Even just to get license you need 3 years experience and exams, specific depending on your state. Also, never do unpaid internship, not only is it illegal, you don't learn anything because they don't let you do real stuff, probably just filing and bring coffee. You have to decide which one you want as main gig, which one as side gig. My idea is you want architecture as main gig for your passion and steel detailing as side? If that is the case, find entry level jobs and do steel detail as side gig. Don't tell the firm you own a steel detail firm. Work 40 hrs full time in architecture firm, do your steel detail after work and weekend. If you can't handle that workload, don't be that ambitious/greedy. If you go full time entry, i expect your steel detailing experience is a plus.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 1:58 pm
Surely, I want architecture to become my main gig at some point, The thing with steel detailing that you can't do it after work and in the weekends. Your customers will be sending you questions and calling you during business hours and you have to reply right away or they will find someone else, it's a fast based industry and highly competitive because of all the Indian slave camps firms. I would gladly do 40 hours architectural position if I can find an architectural firm that hires me but allow me to still manage my business during business hours, so if I have to work for them for 8 hours, I can stay in the office for 11 hours total to have 3 hours for myself in between. I just don't know any principal personally and don't have much connections to get a flexible position like this. And it's not possible for me to live off an entry level position salary, I have responsibilities that require me to have a decent salary. It's not really me just want more money
Jay1122
Sep 15, 20 2:33 pm
Now i seriously doubt you can find one. Most firm does not even allow side gig. You want them to let you do side gig during work time as an intern. Nah, you have to be a good manager to get a maybe. Not as intern.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:40 pm
I understand that, now you know why I mentioned the free internships. Even when offering free work, most firms will not accept.
Everyday Architect
Sep 15, 20 2:15 pm
This thread is perfect for Rick. He's trying to do the same thing, become an architect while owning a business. Hasn't really worked for him so far, but he'll be here soon enough to fill you in on the details.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:17 pm
Good to know I'm not the only one!
Josh Mings
Sep 15, 20 3:05 pm
Unlike Balkins, you seem to be doing a good job.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 3:08 pm
Balkins?]
x-jla
Sep 16, 20 1:43 am
Balkins runs a kangaroo sanctuary, building design business, software firm, and a Goonies tour bus, to name a few....
Everyday Architect
Sep 15, 20 2:17 pm
Had to get the post up about Rick first...
Well at least you're persistent. I suppose you have that going for you. I doubt you'll gain much more insight from this thread than the others you've started asking basically the same thing.
In fact, looking back at the exchange we had on your first thread, you gave the following as reasons for owning your own firm as an architect:
Personal freedom
To avoid becoming a slave for the boss as I get older. The older the employee is the more liability he gets considered. That's a fact that I've seen personally
The creativity, having the opportunity not to spend my life detailing bathrooms since I can outsource a big part of the construction documents work
The chance of making it big and leave a legacy. You will not have your name remembered by working for someone
Sounds like your steel detailing business has given you at least #1 and #2.
For #3, find another outlet for your creativity. No one said that your work and how you earn a living has to be that creative outlet.
As for #4, my first thought is "why do you think you're that special" but I realize that maybe that's stifling your dreams which I'm not really wanting to do (though I think a healthy dose of reality might be in order). That said, you can make it big and build a legacy in steel detailing if you wanted to, or in your creative outlet, or in whatever you want. I wonder why you think having your own architectural firm will get you there?
At this point, I don't think you need us to tell you how to become an architect. If you really wanted to, you'd figure out a way to make it happen, even if that meant giving up your business (I wouldn't if I were you, but that's just me). I think what you need to do is figure out if you need to be an architect or if you can accomplish what you want some other way. Good luck.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:47 pm
Yes, To avoid becoming a slave for the boss as I get older. If you look how the world is moving. IT will at some point wipe out all drafting work, softwares are getting better and better by the year... Globalization also killing the drafting gig. Me and others are basically competing with Indian companies who ask for 10$ per hour. Architecture is legally protected. No one without licence will be able to compete against you..
Jay1122
Sep 15, 20 2:48 pm
By having your own architecture firm, you will likely work on bathroom/kitchen renovation, small commercial fit-out or reno.The pay is good tho. Creativity and legacy? LOOOOL. I've seen a few who used to be managers at starchitect firm comes out with their own firm who could not even do moderately cool projects, just doing boring multi-fam housing and boxes.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:52 pm
Still, isn't that another stream of income? Most importantly than the legacy and creativity, job security. Please read my previous reply above.
Everyday Architect
Sep 15, 20 2:54 pm
Here's a not so secret secret. Architects are never the boss. They're always slaves to the people with the money (owner/developer/etc.). Architecture is a service-based industry. We serve the people with the money to pay for it. If you want to make a legacy, become a developer and put your name on all your buildings. Look at where that got Trump. Love him or hate him, he's got a legacy.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 3:01 pm
That's true, but being a developer who put his name on the building and as well as its design is even cooler than just being a developer!
bowling_ball
Sep 15, 20 4:30 pm
Dude, you're clueless. I guess that's why you're here, but you're not listening.
Everyday Architect
Sep 15, 20 4:51 pm
Sorry, I didn't realize you were going for the 'cool' factor. Better to just make your fortune in steel detailing, become uber rich investing in startups or something (you could even do architecture startups), and spend the rest of your time on earth as an instagram influencer or something.
You shouldn't be looking at architects for inspiration and mentorship, you should be talking to the Elon Musk and Richard Branson types. If you still need to scratch the architectural itch, talk to Brad Pitt (someone want to post a photo for Donna?).
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 4:56 pm
Ok, I will do that..
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 5:23 pm
By the way, when I say legacy, it could be a nice residential building, it could be something small...... I wasn't saying Brad Pitt, nor Trump.... That should answer your 'why you think you're special' question. Because I really don't think I'm special
...
Jay1122
Sep 15, 20 6:40 pm
Hey don't listen to EA. If you love architecture, you should go for it. The most common problem with people is many of them got in the profession without knowing the profession or love the profession. You want to save your steel detailing cushion while in transition to architecture is totally understandable. But money really matters. Man i can't even have my own dream house to wake up to and admire everyday. It is already designed. Just need the Moolah.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 10:54 pm
Thanks Jay, that's really sum it up
archanonymous
Sep 15, 20 2:20 pm
A couple alternate paths:
Partner with an architect. They get drafters and expert steel detailing, you get arch experience.
Co-locate your office with a small architecture firm - many rent out extra desk space (at least in non-covid times). Pick up work from their side as it becomes available and offer your drafters and technical consulting to them in turn.
Sell your business/ merge with a design-build shop. Set the terms as you continue to manage the detail drafters while getting some arch experience.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:26 pm
Thanks for the response,
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:38 pm
For the first path, I would love to partner with an arhcitect, I know what I will be getting from them, experience, but how about them? what are they benefit from me? Expert steel detailing? That could be useful for them? but a steel detailing expert is not really crucial for architects.
Maybe I can help them expand by providing financial support, like paying office rent and expenses, help hiring new staff?and they give me experience in return? I will need to find a small architectural firm then, big firms will not care much
- The second path is very smart, I will keep it in mind for after covid era.
- For the third path, How the design-build shop will benefit from my drafters? We use Tekla, design-build shops uses other software probably. Revit or AutoCAD for the most part.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 2:37 pm
For the first path, I would love to partner with an arhcitect, I know what I will be getting from them, experience, but how about them? what are they benefit from me? Expert steel detailing? That could be useful for them? but a steel detailing expert is not really crucial for architects.
Maybe I can help them expand by providing financial support, like paying office rent and expenses, help hiring new staff?and they give me experience in return? I will need to find a small architectural firm then, big firms will not care much
- The second path is very smart, I will keep it in mind for after covid era.
- For the third path, How the design-build shop will benefit from my drafters? We use Tekla, design-build shops uses other software probably. Revit or AutoCAD for the most part
bowling_ball
Sep 15, 20 4:35 pm
Let's play a game.
As the owner of a steel detailing firm, let's say an architect with their own architectural firm comes into your office, looking for a job. But they only want to work part time, as they have to answer calls and emails during work hours for their arch firm. And they tell you that they only want to work for a few years before setting up a firm in direct competition with yours.
You'd kick their ass out the door quicker than you can say "get the fuck out of my office!"
What you're asking is so unbelievably greedy, ignorant, and lazy, I'm having a hard time believing that it's real.
archanonymous
Sep 15, 20 4:44 pm
look at the dude's previous responses to extremely reasonable advice in this thread... either a troll or incredibly dumb and lucky the steel business is doing OK.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 4:57 pm
Man, what a bunch of wannabe bullies
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 5:08 pm
I obviously said I'm offering to work for free, otherwise it will not make sense for them to hire me knowing I will be leaving.. I've been targeting very small firms, someone who would care about saving on salaries. mid-size and large size firms will not be interested.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 5:12 pm
archanonymous, reasonable advice?! you want me to partner with an architect and make him use my steel detailers. The architect will have 12 new architectural drafters in his team to teach, yay, that must be fun
bowling_ball
Sep 15, 20 7:13 pm
Working for free punishes the rest of us by pushing down fees. GFY.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 10:59 pm
Honestly, you can't blame desperate people like me looking to better themselves. Put your blame on big architecture firms who are benefiting from the current misery and not lobbying for us. We should get paid as much as doctors and lawyers because we studied as hard and our field is as crucial to society as theirs...Please don't think people are happy working for free
bowling_ball
Sep 15, 20 11:38 pm
Who is this "we" and "us?" Last time i checked, you own a drafting company and I'm a licensed architect (and firm owner myself. BTW I have never and will never take on any unpaid staff).
Non Sequitur
Sep 15, 20 11:49 pm
and another clueless fool who thinks architecture studio = med school... I'm very happy I was busy when the night they served that brand of koolaid.
x-jla
Sep 16, 20 1:37 am
People pay doctors and lawyers because their lives depend on it. That’s a big difference.
Non Sequitur
Sep 16, 20 9:22 am
Correct Xjla... also, their education is actually in-line with the requirements of their profession. That's also a big difference.
x-jla
Sep 16, 20 12:54 pm
In martial arts, boxing, sports, you learn the basics first. Architecture school skips jabs and goes straight to flying spin kicks.
x-jla
Sep 16, 20 12:55 pm
No wonder why the industry “beats them up” for the first 5 years or so.
sameolddoctor
Sep 15, 20 9:19 pm
Expand your business, then hire a registered architect to be your b***ch. Done.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 10:52 pm
I'm honestly not seeing any other way. F*** it.
This is the way to go
Aluminate
Sep 15, 20 10:27 pm
You can't get AXP experience in NY from a setting in which you are your architect supervisor's employer, and you can't partner with an architect to get AXP experience in NY, because NY doesn't allow architectural services to be provided in a company with any unlicensed partners, and you also can't get AXP experience from an unpaid internship in NY. NY is famous for fining firms for these kinds of violations that they mine from license applications. This is at least the 5th one of these threads you've posted about this same scenario in the past year or so, and all of this has been answered several times already. I'm starting to suspect that these threads are subtle spam attempts for your detailing business.
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 10:50 pm
None of my previous threads I mentioned my firm by name. Try another one. And I can partner with someone somewhere else. PA is only 1.5 hours drive. CT is 45 min away. Thanks for your input
adamk1992
Sep 15, 20 11:29 pm
Also Architects are not even my customers, why would I market here lol
midlander
Sep 16, 20 12:51 am
first a note about internships: the purpose of internships is to help firms connect to potential future staff and help them learn what they need to become independently capable within an office.
for the most part, truly junior interns have a negative value to a firm. the cost of billable time for management to supervise them and keep them busy is greater than the value of their contribution to work. so firms don't care if you're free, they care if you're talented and open to future commitment. they want someone who might help the firm grow, not merely push lines around in a drawing for a year or two.
and your commitment to your own business strongly interferes with this. on top of being inexperienced you expect to be managed on your own schedule. you'll have your own work on your mind at times when you're trying to do the architecture firms work and it will be a distraction. managing staff isn't a part time job.
adamk1992
Sep 16, 20 8:27 am
Absolutely true, I think I'm exaggerating what I can get done in one day, like a lot of people do. Even if I find someone willing to give me an internship, they will get frustrated when they see me super busy, because I get super busy some days and some other days, I barely do anything. I can't control that, my customers do. Similarly to architects I guess. I think my only chance thinking about it now is that if I grow my firm to a level where I don't have to be engaged in every day operations then maybe that day I can somehow partner with an architect in a state that allows that, I give the money and staff and he/she gives the experience, That might be doable one day. Thanks for the comment
midlander
Sep 16, 20 12:55 am
this is one of those things where a more experienced employer can see right away what you can't yet, which is that there is no way at all you are going to push yourself hard to integrate within a firm and make their interests your own. you might make it work for a few months but this situation will inevitably turn into a conflict.
you could lie and avoid bringing all this up but that would obviously be hard to ignore once you have business obligations and will only get you in trouble while also damaging your reputation with that employer. don't try to sneak around the issue.
i think you need to be honest with yourself and commit to something. it can be a limited commitment where you decide to run the business and grow it enough to sell within maybe 5 years, then pursue architecture full time.
or you sell yourself to an architecture firm as a valuable consultant with the specific skills related to your steel work. this could be legitimate part time work until you are ready to shift your focus to architecture completely.
maybe bring up this idea with the firm - i think you'll find some firms with specific needs for your experience who would be open to working this way. and it gives you some flexibility to test the environment while keeping your shop going.
x-jla
Sep 16, 20 1:31 am
Some others have already touched upon this, but I think sometimes hearing something more than once reinforces it for you.
You are already on a great path that you are not seeing, I think. You are a specialist, so why revert backwards to being a generalist?
You have a footing with your steel fabrication business. I’d say, build upon that, and figure out a way to move that business into a direction that incorporates, or exclusively focuses on architectural steel Design and fabrication. You don’t need to own a fabrication shop, you can work something out with an existing fabrication shop.
I have a hunch that Design-Build companies may find your services most beneficial. With your steel business, you are also not geographically bound by license laws. You can work anywhere and serve anyone.
I think that you are in a great position...just need to reposition a little.
rcz1001
Sep 16, 20 1:58 am
1. Simple answer is "With few exceptions to the norm, the answer is NO!"
2. Architects by nature of their own ego (being among the most egotistical profession there is) don't like playing second fiddle to anyone so they won't be a subordinate as much as I don't. Hence, it won't work out.
3. Architects will often not even employ you if they find out in a little bit of background searching and internet searching that you are operating your own business. Unless you are 60+ years old and has 3-4 decades, and a hugely good reputation as a very high end home designer, they won't hire you if you are running your own business. In other words, they don't want to hire their competition.
3B. If they do hire you, they will require that you close down your business and sign a non-compete and non-moonlighting clause that will apply while you are employed and sometimes for a period of time after.
4. Employees that runs their own businesses are too catty or anti-authority in the sense that they tend to be too untenable and unwilling to take orders. Employers like to be terse and direct in giving their directives. "Do this...." "Do that....". They tend to act like teenagers to parents because the reason people tend to go on their own and start their own business is because they are tired of taking orders and want to be in command. It's a chain of command issue. This is not just an issue in architecture field but any occupation.
5. Again egos clash. Your ego and your employer's ego who by virtue of being your EMPLOYER feels that they should be in charge and telling you what to do because they are paying you and if they are paying you, they want you to do what they tell you to do without complaint, guff, bitching, or questioning whatsoever.
While there is more issues involved but the backbone of the rub and issue is significantly an ego thing and certain associated issues that I mentioned. People don't want to hire people who will as soon as they are licensed, leave and start their own firm and when you are already having a business, you are just a few steps from doing that. One is, getting licensed. If you pass the exams, get your AXP hours, pay the fees with NCARB and your state for licensure, it is just a few paperwork and fees and you are off to running your own business and likely taking their clients with you.
What is their incentive to hire you when you are apparently "half-way" (not literally but figuratively) to going our on your own. Oh lets not forget that if you are providing your own services and using your firm's equipment and office that you are subjecting them to potential issues of dealing with lawsuits from clients that may try to sue you but will name your employer and drag your employer's firm legal issues which will all cost the firm money to get off the hook yet they won't get compensated for it by your client. So your employer would have to then spend more money and sue you or somehow garnish the wages. If you use their equipment and supplies, they can get caught up into nasty liability and even potentially being enjoined because if the work was physically done in their office, on their equipment, they are suppose to supervise the work, review & edit as many times and a final review and then stamp and sign the construction documents and other such work that would need to be stamped even if the project does not require an architect stamp like houses (in many states).... Yet, even if your employer's firm are not contractually associated with the client, the client's lawyers would attempt to enjoin your employer's firm.
There is this cloudy and muddy issue of law that a person can only be an employee or an independent contractor/business but they can't be both concurrently.
Firms want to be sure it is clear that you are only their employee and that you have no business whatsoever of any kind. Either, you are an employee to them or an independent contractor. A lot of firms have no need for an independent contractor and if you are running your own business properly, you will NEVER be less expensive than an employee per hour because you would be billing a billed hourly rate which would cover not only your direct hourly rate but your own social security, worker's comp, health insurance and other benefits you would be paying for, business overhead (licensing, business expenses of your own like having your own equipment, office space somewhere to conduct your business activities, phone/internet, general liability insurance, E&O, etc.), and a profit margin. Just the profit margin should make you more expensive because employees don't get profits. They get just their wage/salary & benefits. Employees will always be cheaper per hour if the independent contractor bills like they know what the f--- they are doing.
So, why would they hire you? What do you provide that they can't hire someone for less money per hour as an employee? You basically have to be screwing yourself to cheaper so forget that. Either be an employee or be your own business but don't try to be both.
POINT ULTIMATE: Running a business and doing so competently is at minimum a full time job especially when you have clients and you are working but that alone is going to be consuming at least 30-40 hours a week if you are going to be working on client work and not have employees or business partners doing that work. If it's just you, you are realistically looking at 50-80 hours a week and sometimes longer. You won't really have days off. You will be spending time on weekends and it's probably a 6-1/2 day deal. How can you adequately serve as an employee with that kind of committment already. If you are going to run a business, it's full time and then some. Even if you manage a reasonable 50-60 hours a week work load running the business, are you willing to work another 40+ hours a week as an employee and commit to working the hours your employer is going to expect of you and meet their deadlines they establish which you will have no control over. They are going to expect employees to put overtime from time to time without complaining especially when you are paid more than minimum wage to begin with. Can you put 40-80 hours a week on top of the 50-60 hours a week you are putting in running your own business? Can you really run a daytime business (8A-5P) while working for an employer that is a daytime business (8A-5P)? It's like hoping to work in an architect office while going to architecture school with your classes all being day-time classes because that's the only time the classes are offered? Is an employer going to hire an employee that has hours they can't be available because of classes or an otherwise equally qualified employee who can be available to work but don't have classes.
Most architectural firms are daytime businesses that may have employees working after hours when deadlines are looming but otherwise are just daytime businesses. They aren't 24/7 businesses and most clients aren't going to be meeting clients at 2AM or 3AM at night when they are likely to be asleep. This isn't a factory where manufacturing may go on 24/7. This isn't a 24/7 gas station job either.
What's your priority? That's going to be on the mind of a prospective employer. It would be on my mind if I was looking for an employee. If you want to get licensed, you will need to get the AXP hours. You then will need to put aside the business. You might just keep the business registration filings active but you will need to put it in a hiatus mode until you complete your AXP hours and any additional experience under an architect that you maybe required to take if you do not have an NAAB accredited degree and are getting licensed under an alternative path to licensure. You will need to put the "business" aside unless you have a partner in your business that can be running the business and you are for the time being a 'silent partner' that is observing the books but the partner works with the client projects. Keep in mind that things can go sideways and keeping the business "active" (aside from merely renewing business licenses) can make employment difficult for you.
To reiterate: WHAT IS YOUR PRIORITY?
rcz1001
Sep 16, 20 2:05 am
Your bosses are going to expect employees to put their entire dedication to them as if they are the Divine Gift to the universe. Remember.... ego. But remember also, they pay your wages or salary and if they don't feel you are devoted enough to them and are putting your all, ALL the time (the ideal).... then they are likely to can you when you fall way short of that. They won't necessarily can someone who falls short but most of the time puts their A game but maybe once in a while their B and more seldom... C game because they have an off moment. They want people who are dedicated almost like devout worshippers. They want people who wants to work FOR them for their career not those who already are thinking about or being on their own.
Everyday Architect
Sep 16, 20 2:10 am
I told you Rick would be around soon enough to fill you in on all the details.
rcz1001
Sep 16, 20 2:50 am
For a lot of reasons but one of the biggest barrier for me working for an architectural firm (aside from myself which is a significant factor) is because of running my own business. More doors for employment would happen probably if I simply got out of the business of running my own building design business... in other words, closed its doors. We are talking about a 5 to 10 years or so committed to getting AXP completed and licensure. There is a point where just running a business makes no sense during that time. It doesn't get me AXP hours. If I got experience credit for building design services of my own business, it would likely be just exams and fees away from licensure but that's not how things work. Running your own business won't do squat for licensure track. Which is more valuable to you? Getting licensed as an architect or your Steel Detailing business, which is it? If the latter, don't waste time and energy on becoming a licensed architect. Keep your life simple that way. If you have a good business and are happy, do NOT derail what you worked hard at. You departed the licensure path a long time ago. What is getting an architect license going to do for you?
randomised
Sep 16, 20 3:26 am
“ (aside from myself which is a significant factor)”
Kudos Rick, I know it must not be easy being unemployable to anyone else but yourself!
rcz1001
Sep 16, 20 3:59 am
Hard work to get that..... then again I tend to not like being someone else's underpaid slave laborer. I want my money and I want to be treated with basic dignity, not like just some disposable slave. I am at a position where I can put the building design business on hiatus indefinitely.
bowling_ball
Sep 16, 20 11:30 am
Rick, you should be banned for your complete inability to be concise. That wall of text is unbelievable. Get a hobby already.
randomised
Sep 16, 20 12:46 pm
Posting walls of text apparently IS a hobby...
x-jla
Sep 16, 20 12:47 pm
I wonder how long that took to write...
Non Sequitur
Sep 16, 20 12:54 pm
That time could have been spent studying for exams
eeayeeayo
Sep 16, 20 1:42 pm
It's written as a proof that Rick isn't competently managing a business. His "POINT ULTIMATE" is that doing so takes 30 to 80 hours of focused dedication per week. But he consistently averages just under 70 posts and 50,000 words per week here (which is about 16-20 hours of work for a typical professional blogger), year round, for years - and that's only on this site alone, but you can find his various monikers and addresses prattling along on many other sites too. Either he's incorrect that somebody can't have another part-time day job while competently running a business, or he has just demonstrated why he's been unable to do so lo these many years.
rcz1001
Sep 16, 20 4:29 pm
You do realize that I have had the business on hiatus since the COVID-19 situation and to an extent. When there aren't client projects, there isn't going to be that many hours of work. When you are working with active client projects, it does take between 30-80 hours a week.
eeayeeayo
Sep 16, 20 4:35 pm
That's exactly why I noted that this goes back years with you. Other regulars' posting ebbs and flows along with their workload, interest, and other life priorities, but yours rarely slows for more than a few days. It's relentless. I've seen you write before about the various reasons (economic, family, educational, bogus, and so on) that pretty much every year between the mid 80s and now has not been a good year for your business(es). But some of them could have had a better shot at being good years if you weren't spending the equivalent of a full time job on this and other forums, pretending to do the professions that you write about. There is no continued time period in which you haven't put 16-40 hours worth of words per week onto this and other forums in any of the past 20 years. Have you ever considered becoming a full time blogger and monetizing that? It's pretty much the only thing you seem to have sustained passion for. People pay for word count - and you can certainly generate it - why don't you try that direction.
rcz1001
Sep 16, 20 4:49 pm
N.S., the online exam scheduling won't be until mid-November. The first exam that I may begin maybe sometime in December. It's still mid-September. The amount of time I'll be spending on studying for the ARE will begin increasing in the upcoming week but incrementally increasing towards a more intensive level of studying in the one to two months timeframe before the exam. So, yeah, posting less would be happening and posts will likely be more focused on the ARE exams.
randomised
Sep 16, 20 2:47 am
Don’t you do any steel detailing for architects? That might be an entry into more architecture related stuff, not necessarily immediately a job as an architect or junior architect or however the title is. But as a business owner yourself would you really like some smug architect-know-it-all making half your salary tell you what to do on a day to day basis? I think you’ll be setting yourself up for some frustrating times if you go the traditional internship route...it will take you years to end up somewhere halfway from where you already are. What about starting your own architectural design firm by hiring your own mentor?
Hello Archinectors!
I'm in this situation in my life where I need an advise from someone with more experience. I feel that since I'm 28 years old, soon to be 29, and don't have a lot wiggle room left to waste more years without having a mentor's advise to put me on the right path, I guess. I know a lot of you will say, you're still young, which is true but I'm not 21 year older anymore!
While I was still at architecture school, I got my first job as a drafter at a steel fabricator, I knew Autocad and was basically just trying to find any office job without having to work in a restaurant or a gas station...
I graduated then started changing fabricators, just to chase a few more dollars per hour here and there. I was poor and money hungry and didn't really deeply think that my 20 something years are passing by without me gaining any architectural working knowledge. I didn't fall in love with steel detailing but I didn't hate neither.
In 2018, I founded DetailingFirm.com with a team of drafters and I went on my own chasing more money. Fast forward to this day, I have my steel detailing business. I'm proud of it and planning to keep it and hopefully expend it. But my love is still for architecture. I see myself one day managing an architectural practice and my detailing business.
I've tried to apply for many internship positions in the last year, I'm very open to an unpaid internship and I mention that in my applications as well. I think is doable to have a part time internship while spending 3-4 hours a day running the detailing business. I mostly do coordination and some checking so not too time consuming. My thoughts were that I can be at an architectural office all day even if the internship is just part time, where I can have 4 hours internship and 4 hours running the detailing business in between ( responding to emails, checking some shop drawings...etc)
One of the architect I applied to was very honest and told me, "why would I hire you and spend 1-2 years training you just so you leave me after you get your licence. You have your own business, I know you will not stick around" which is true.
Yes, I will not stick around but I thought if an architect spend a few months training me to become useful for him/her then I spend another year or two working for him/her unpaid, it would kinda pay of for him/her training time.
The pandemic apparently made thing more complicated.
I really don't know what to do at this point. I'm losing hope to ever get an entry level position, please let me know if you think I'm missing some point or if I'm presenting myself incorrectly to architectural firms.
One thing I'm not ready to do is to sell or close my steel detailing business just so an architectural firm would hire me for 50k a year. I can't do that from a financial stand point due to financial responsibilities I have to honor.
Your advise would greatly appreciated! Sorry for making this super long
Never work unpaid gigs... Never. full stop, shake your head, and re-read that again.
Keep your business and expand it. Once you've grown, take your profits and hire architects to work for you instead.
Re-read my first sentence.
I love the response, thank you. I really don't like to work for free, no one does. It's just my frustration that brought this idea to my mind.
I thought about hiring architects at some point in my life, I'm growing and I know I will be able to do that from a financial stand point at some point in the next 3-5 years, I just don't know how that will be doable legally. I can technically earn experience from an architect employee but legally, I don't think I can fulfill my AXP experience from someone who works for me, at least not in NY state. I know in other state, you can " become partner" with an architect and this partner can technically give you AXP experience legally. I'm just not sure if there will be any architect who is willing to partner with me, why would they do that? What am I going to give in return in this partnership? Office space and employees payroll?
You can't claim xp hours when you're mentor in on your own payroll. Pretty sure we've made this clear to you in your previous posts. Either take the IDP process seriously or give it up. Very little respect for those trying to weasel out and take shortcuts.
Before talking about how to find an entry job. Why would you want to get back to architecture if your detailing firm is doing well that you don't want to let go? Is your end goal being a licensed architect owning your own architecture practice and simultaneously owning steel detailing firm? First of all i would expect at least 5-10 years full time work experience to get comfortable to start solo architecture firm. Even just to get license you need 3 years experience and exams, specific depending on your state. Also, never do unpaid internship, not only is it illegal, you don't learn anything because they don't let you do real stuff, probably just filing and bring coffee. You have to decide which one you want as main gig, which one as side gig. My idea is you want architecture as main gig for your passion and steel detailing as side? If that is the case, find entry level jobs and do steel detail as side gig. Don't tell the firm you own a steel detail firm. Work 40 hrs full time in architecture firm, do your steel detail after work and weekend. If you can't handle that workload, don't be that ambitious/greedy. If you go full time entry, i expect your steel detailing experience is a plus.
Surely, I want architecture to become my main gig at some point, The thing with steel detailing that you can't do it after work and in the weekends. Your customers will be sending you questions and calling you during business hours and you have to reply right away or they will find someone else, it's a fast based industry and highly competitive because of all the Indian slave camps firms. I would gladly do 40 hours architectural position if I can find an architectural firm that hires me but allow me to still manage my business during business hours, so if I have to work for them for 8 hours, I can stay in the office for 11 hours total to have 3 hours for myself in between. I just don't know any principal personally and don't have much connections to get a flexible position like this. And it's not possible for me to live off an entry level position salary, I have responsibilities that require me to have a decent salary. It's not really me just want more money
Now i seriously doubt you can find one. Most firm does not even allow side gig. You want them to let you do side gig during work time as an intern. Nah, you have to be a good manager to get a maybe. Not as intern.
I understand that, now you know why I mentioned the free internships. Even when offering free work, most firms will not accept.
This thread is perfect for Rick. He's trying to do the same thing, become an architect while owning a business. Hasn't really worked for him so far, but he'll be here soon enough to fill you in on the details.
Good to know I'm not the only one!
Unlike Balkins, you seem to be doing a good job.
Balkins?]
Balkins runs a kangaroo sanctuary, building design business, software firm, and a Goonies tour bus, to name a few....
Had to get the post up about Rick first...
Well at least you're persistent. I suppose you have that going for you. I doubt you'll gain much more insight from this thread than the others you've started asking basically the same thing.
In fact, looking back at the exchange we had on your first thread, you gave the following as reasons for owning your own firm as an architect:
Sounds like your steel detailing business has given you at least #1 and #2.
For #3, find another outlet for your creativity. No one said that your work and how you earn a living has to be that creative outlet.
As for #4, my first thought is "why do you think you're that special" but I realize that maybe that's stifling your dreams which I'm not really wanting to do (though I think a healthy dose of reality might be in order). That said, you can make it big and build a legacy in steel detailing if you wanted to, or in your creative outlet, or in whatever you want. I wonder why you think having your own architectural firm will get you there?
At this point, I don't think you need us to tell you how to become an architect. If you really wanted to, you'd figure out a way to make it happen, even if that meant giving up your business (I wouldn't if I were you, but that's just me). I think what you need to do is figure out if you need to be an architect or if you can accomplish what you want some other way. Good luck.
Yes, To avoid becoming a slave for the boss as I get older. If you look how the world is moving. IT will at some point wipe out all drafting work, softwares are getting better and better by the year... Globalization also killing the drafting gig. Me and others are basically competing with Indian companies who ask for 10$ per hour. Architecture is legally protected. No one without licence will be able to compete against you..
By having your own architecture firm, you will likely work on bathroom/kitchen renovation, small commercial fit-out or reno.The pay is good tho. Creativity and legacy? LOOOOL. I've seen a few who used to be managers at starchitect firm comes out with their own firm who could not even do moderately cool projects, just doing boring multi-fam housing and boxes.
Still, isn't that another stream of income? Most importantly than the legacy and creativity, job security. Please read my previous reply above.
Here's a not so secret secret. Architects are never the boss. They're always slaves to the people with the money (owner/developer/etc.). Architecture is a service-based industry. We serve the people with the money to pay for it. If you want to make a legacy, become a developer and put your name on all your buildings. Look at where that got Trump. Love him or hate him, he's got a legacy.
That's true, but being a developer who put his name on the building and as well as its design is even cooler than just being a developer!
Dude, you're clueless. I guess that's why you're here, but you're not listening.
Sorry, I didn't realize you were going for the 'cool' factor. Better to just make your fortune in steel detailing, become uber rich investing in startups or something (you could even do architecture startups), and spend the rest of your time on earth as an instagram influencer or something.
You shouldn't be looking at architects for inspiration and mentorship, you should be talking to the Elon Musk and Richard Branson types. If you still need to scratch the architectural itch, talk to Brad Pitt (someone want to post a photo for Donna?).
Ok, I will do that..
By the way, when I say legacy, it could be a nice residential building, it could be something small...... I wasn't saying Brad Pitt, nor Trump.... That should answer your 'why you think you're special' question. Because I really don't think I'm special ...
Hey don't listen to EA. If you love architecture, you should go for it. The most common problem with people is many of them got in the profession without knowing the profession or love the profession. You want to save your steel detailing cushion while in transition to architecture is totally understandable. But money really matters. Man i can't even have my own dream house to wake up to and admire everyday. It is already designed. Just need the Moolah.
Thanks Jay, that's really sum it up
A couple alternate paths:
Partner with an architect. They get drafters and expert steel detailing, you get arch experience.
Co-locate your office with a small architecture firm - many rent out extra desk space (at least in non-covid times). Pick up work from their side as it becomes available and offer your drafters and technical consulting to them in turn.
Sell your business/ merge with a design-build shop. Set the terms as you continue to manage the detail drafters while getting some arch experience.
Thanks for the response,
For the first path, I would love to partner with an arhcitect, I know what I will be getting from them, experience, but how about them? what are they benefit from me? Expert steel detailing? That could be useful for them? but a steel detailing expert is not really crucial for architects. Maybe I can help them expand by providing financial support, like paying office rent and expenses, help hiring new staff?and they give me experience in return? I will need to find a small architectural firm then, big firms will not care much - The second path is very smart, I will keep it in mind for after covid era. - For the third path, How the design-build shop will benefit from my drafters? We use Tekla, design-build shops uses other software probably. Revit or AutoCAD for the most part.
For the first path, I would love to partner with an arhcitect, I know what I will be getting from them, experience, but how about them? what are they benefit from me? Expert steel detailing? That could be useful for them? but a steel detailing expert is not really crucial for architects.
Maybe I can help them expand by providing financial support, like paying office rent and expenses, help hiring new staff?and they give me experience in return? I will need to find a small architectural firm then, big firms will not care much
- The second path is very smart, I will keep it in mind for after covid era.
- For the third path, How the design-build shop will benefit from my drafters? We use Tekla, design-build shops uses other software probably. Revit or AutoCAD for the most part
Let's play a game.
As the owner of a steel detailing firm, let's say an architect with their own architectural firm comes into your office, looking for a job. But they only want to work part time, as they have to answer calls and emails during work hours for their arch firm. And they tell you that they only want to work for a few years before setting up a firm in direct competition with yours.
You'd kick their ass out the door quicker than you can say "get the fuck out of my office!"
What you're asking is so unbelievably greedy, ignorant, and lazy, I'm having a hard time believing that it's real.
look at the dude's previous responses to extremely reasonable advice in this thread... either a troll or incredibly dumb and lucky the steel business is doing OK.
Man, what a bunch of wannabe bullies
I obviously said I'm offering to work for free, otherwise it will not make sense for them to hire me knowing I will be leaving.. I've been targeting very small firms, someone who would care about saving on salaries. mid-size and large size firms will not be interested.
archanonymous, reasonable advice?! you want me to partner with an architect and make him use my steel detailers. The architect will have 12 new architectural drafters in his team to teach, yay, that must be fun
Working for free punishes the rest of us by pushing down fees. GFY.
Honestly, you can't blame desperate people like me looking to better themselves. Put your blame on big architecture firms who are benefiting from the current misery and not lobbying for us. We should get paid as much as doctors and lawyers because we studied as hard and our field is as crucial to society as theirs...Please don't think people are happy working for free
Who is this "we" and "us?" Last time i checked, you own a drafting company and I'm a licensed architect (and firm owner myself. BTW I have never and will never take on any unpaid staff).
and another clueless fool who thinks architecture studio = med school... I'm very happy I was busy when the night they served that brand of koolaid.
People pay doctors and lawyers because their lives depend on it. That’s a big difference.
Correct Xjla... also, their education is actually in-line with the requirements of their profession. That's also a big difference.
In martial arts, boxing, sports, you learn the basics first. Architecture school skips jabs and goes straight to flying spin kicks.
No wonder why the industry “beats them up” for the first 5 years or so.
Expand your business, then hire a registered architect to be your b***ch. Done.
I'm honestly not seeing any other way. F*** it. This is the way to go
You can't get AXP experience in NY from a setting in which you are your architect supervisor's employer, and you can't partner with an architect to get AXP experience in NY, because NY doesn't allow architectural services to be provided in a company with any unlicensed partners, and you also can't get AXP experience from an unpaid internship in NY. NY is famous for fining firms for these kinds of violations that they mine from license applications. This is at least the 5th one of these threads you've posted about this same scenario in the past year or so, and all of this has been answered several times already. I'm starting to suspect that these threads are subtle spam attempts for your detailing business.
None of my previous threads I mentioned my firm by name. Try another one. And I can partner with someone somewhere else. PA is only 1.5 hours drive. CT is 45 min away. Thanks for your input
Also Architects are not even my customers, why would I market here lol
first a note about internships: the purpose of internships is to help firms connect to potential future staff and help them learn what they need to become independently capable within an office.
for the most part, truly junior interns have a negative value to a firm. the cost of billable time for management to supervise them and keep them busy is greater than the value of their contribution to work. so firms don't care if you're free, they care if you're talented and open to future commitment. they want someone who might help the firm grow, not merely push lines around in a drawing for a year or two.
and your commitment to your own business strongly interferes with this. on top of being inexperienced you expect to be managed on your own schedule. you'll have your own work on your mind at times when you're trying to do the architecture firms work and it will be a distraction. managing staff isn't a part time job.
Absolutely true, I think I'm exaggerating what I can get done in one day, like a lot of people do. Even if I find someone willing to give me an internship, they will get frustrated when they see me super busy, because I get super busy some days and some other days, I barely do anything. I can't control that, my customers do. Similarly to architects I guess. I think my only chance thinking about it now is that if I grow my firm to a level where I don't have to be engaged in every day operations then maybe that day I can somehow partner with an architect in a state that allows that, I give the money and staff and he/she gives the experience, That might be doable one day. Thanks for the comment
this is one of those things where a more experienced employer can see right away what you can't yet, which is that there is no way at all you are going to push yourself hard to integrate within a firm and make their interests your own. you might make it work for a few months but this situation will inevitably turn into a conflict.
you could lie and avoid bringing all this up but that would obviously be hard to ignore once you have business obligations and will only get you in trouble while also damaging your reputation with that employer. don't try to sneak around the issue.
i think you need to be honest with yourself and commit to something. it can be a limited commitment where you decide to run the business and grow it enough to sell within maybe 5 years, then pursue architecture full time.
or you sell yourself to an architecture firm as a valuable consultant with the specific skills related to your steel work. this could be legitimate part time work until you are ready to shift your focus to architecture completely.
maybe bring up this idea with the firm - i think you'll find some firms with specific needs for your experience who would be open to working this way. and it gives you some flexibility to test the environment while keeping your shop going.
Some others have already touched upon this, but I think sometimes hearing something more than once reinforces it for you.
You are already on a great path that you are not seeing, I think. You are a specialist, so why revert backwards to being a generalist?
You have a footing with your steel fabrication business. I’d say, build upon that, and figure out a way to move that business into a direction that incorporates, or exclusively focuses on architectural steel Design and fabrication. You don’t need to own a fabrication shop, you can work something out with an existing fabrication shop.
I have a hunch that Design-Build companies may find your services most beneficial. With your steel business, you are also not geographically bound by license laws. You can work anywhere and serve anyone.
I think that you are in a great position...just need to reposition a little.
1. Simple answer is "With few exceptions to the norm, the answer is NO!"
2. Architects by nature of their own ego (being among the most egotistical profession there is) don't like playing second fiddle to anyone so they won't be a subordinate as much as I don't. Hence, it won't work out.
3. Architects will often not even employ you if they find out in a little bit of background searching and internet searching that you are operating your own business. Unless you are 60+ years old and has 3-4 decades, and a hugely good reputation as a very high end home designer, they won't hire you if you are running your own business. In other words, they don't want to hire their competition.
3B. If they do hire you, they will require that you close down your business and sign a non-compete and non-moonlighting clause that will apply while you are employed and sometimes for a period of time after.
4. Employees that runs their own businesses are too catty or anti-authority in the sense that they tend to be too untenable and unwilling to take orders. Employers like to be terse and direct in giving their directives. "Do this...." "Do that....". They tend to act like teenagers to parents because the reason people tend to go on their own and start their own business is because they are tired of taking orders and want to be in command. It's a chain of command issue. This is not just an issue in architecture field but any occupation.
5. Again egos clash. Your ego and your employer's ego who by virtue of being your EMPLOYER feels that they should be in charge and telling you what to do because they are paying you and if they are paying you, they want you to do what they tell you to do without complaint, guff, bitching, or questioning whatsoever.
While there is more issues involved but the backbone of the rub and issue is significantly an ego thing and certain associated issues that I mentioned. People don't want to hire people who will as soon as they are licensed, leave and start their own firm and when you are already having a business, you are just a few steps from doing that. One is, getting licensed. If you pass the exams, get your AXP hours, pay the fees with NCARB and your state for licensure, it is just a few paperwork and fees and you are off to running your own business and likely taking their clients with you.
What is their incentive to hire you when you are apparently "half-way" (not literally but figuratively) to going our on your own. Oh lets not forget that if you are providing your own services and using your firm's equipment and office that you are subjecting them to potential issues of dealing with lawsuits from clients that may try to sue you but will name your employer and drag your employer's firm legal issues which will all cost the firm money to get off the hook yet they won't get compensated for it by your client. So your employer would have to then spend more money and sue you or somehow garnish the wages. If you use their equipment and supplies, they can get caught up into nasty liability and even potentially being enjoined because if the work was physically done in their office, on their equipment, they are suppose to supervise the work, review & edit as many times and a final review and then stamp and sign the construction documents and other such work that would need to be stamped even if the project does not require an architect stamp like houses (in many states).... Yet, even if your employer's firm are not contractually associated with the client, the client's lawyers would attempt to enjoin your employer's firm.
There is this cloudy and muddy issue of law that a person can only be an employee or an independent contractor/business but they can't be both concurrently.
Firms want to be sure it is clear that you are only their employee and that you have no business whatsoever of any kind. Either, you are an employee to them or an independent contractor. A lot of firms have no need for an independent contractor and if you are running your own business properly, you will NEVER be less expensive than an employee per hour because you would be billing a billed hourly rate which would cover not only your direct hourly rate but your own social security, worker's comp, health insurance and other benefits you would be paying for, business overhead (licensing, business expenses of your own like having your own equipment, office space somewhere to conduct your business activities, phone/internet, general liability insurance, E&O, etc.), and a profit margin. Just the profit margin should make you more expensive because employees don't get profits. They get just their wage/salary & benefits. Employees will always be cheaper per hour if the independent contractor bills like they know what the f--- they are doing.
So, why would they hire you? What do you provide that they can't hire someone for less money per hour as an employee? You basically have to be screwing yourself to cheaper so forget that. Either be an employee or be your own business but don't try to be both.
POINT ULTIMATE: Running a business and doing so competently is at minimum a full time job especially when you have clients and you are working but that alone is going to be consuming at least 30-40 hours a week if you are going to be working on client work and not have employees or business partners doing that work. If it's just you, you are realistically looking at 50-80 hours a week and sometimes longer. You won't really have days off. You will be spending time on weekends and it's probably a 6-1/2 day deal. How can you adequately serve as an employee with that kind of committment already. If you are going to run a business, it's full time and then some. Even if you manage a reasonable 50-60 hours a week work load running the business, are you willing to work another 40+ hours a week as an employee and commit to working the hours your employer is going to expect of you and meet their deadlines they establish which you will have no control over. They are going to expect employees to put overtime from time to time without complaining especially when you are paid more than minimum wage to begin with. Can you put 40-80 hours a week on top of the 50-60 hours a week you are putting in running your own business? Can you really run a daytime business (8A-5P) while working for an employer that is a daytime business (8A-5P)? It's like hoping to work in an architect office while going to architecture school with your classes all being day-time classes because that's the only time the classes are offered? Is an employer going to hire an employee that has hours they can't be available because of classes or an otherwise equally qualified employee who can be available to work but don't have classes.
Most architectural firms are daytime businesses that may have employees working after hours when deadlines are looming but otherwise are just daytime businesses. They aren't 24/7 businesses and most clients aren't going to be meeting clients at 2AM or 3AM at night when they are likely to be asleep. This isn't a factory where manufacturing may go on 24/7. This isn't a 24/7 gas station job either.
What's your priority? That's going to be on the mind of a prospective employer. It would be on my mind if I was looking for an employee. If you want to get licensed, you will need to get the AXP hours. You then will need to put aside the business. You might just keep the business registration filings active but you will need to put it in a hiatus mode until you complete your AXP hours and any additional experience under an architect that you maybe required to take if you do not have an NAAB accredited degree and are getting licensed under an alternative path to licensure. You will need to put the "business" aside unless you have a partner in your business that can be running the business and you are for the time being a 'silent partner' that is observing the books but the partner works with the client projects. Keep in mind that things can go sideways and keeping the business "active" (aside from merely renewing business licenses) can make employment difficult for you.
To reiterate: WHAT IS YOUR PRIORITY?
Your bosses are going to expect employees to put their entire dedication to them as if they are the Divine Gift to the universe. Remember.... ego. But remember also, they pay your wages or salary and if they don't feel you are devoted enough to them and are putting your all, ALL the time (the ideal).... then they are likely to can you when you fall way short of that. They won't necessarily can someone who falls short but most of the time puts their A game but maybe once in a while their B and more seldom... C game because they have an off moment. They want people who are dedicated almost like devout worshippers. They want people who wants to work FOR them for their career not those who already are thinking about or being on their own.
I told you Rick would be around soon enough to fill you in on all the details.
For a lot of reasons but one of the biggest barrier for me working for an architectural firm (aside from myself which is a significant factor) is because of running my own business. More doors for employment would happen probably if I simply got out of the business of running my own building design business... in other words, closed its doors. We are talking about a 5 to 10 years or so committed to getting AXP completed and licensure. There is a point where just running a business makes no sense during that time. It doesn't get me AXP hours. If I got experience credit for building design services of my own business, it would likely be just exams and fees away from licensure but that's not how things work. Running your own business won't do squat for licensure track. Which is more valuable to you? Getting licensed as an architect or your Steel Detailing business, which is it? If the latter, don't waste time and energy on becoming a licensed architect. Keep your life simple that way. If you have a good business and are happy, do NOT derail what you worked hard at. You departed the licensure path a long time ago. What is getting an architect license going to do for you?
“ (aside from myself which is a significant factor)”
Kudos Rick, I know it must not be easy being unemployable to anyone else but yourself!
Hard work to get that..... then again I tend to not like being someone else's underpaid slave laborer. I want my money and I want to be treated with basic dignity, not like just some disposable slave. I am at a position where I can put the building design business on hiatus indefinitely.
Rick, you should be banned for your complete inability to be concise. That wall of text is unbelievable. Get a hobby already.
Posting walls of text apparently IS a hobby...
I wonder how long that took to write...
That time could have been spent studying for exams
It's written as a proof that Rick isn't competently managing a business. His "POINT ULTIMATE" is that doing so takes 30 to 80 hours of focused dedication per week. But he consistently averages just under 70 posts and 50,000 words per week here (which is about 16-20 hours of work for a typical professional blogger), year round, for years - and that's only on this site alone, but you can find his various monikers and addresses prattling along on many other sites too. Either he's incorrect that somebody can't have another part-time day job while competently running a business, or he has just demonstrated why he's been unable to do so lo these many years.
You do realize that I have had the business on hiatus since the COVID-19 situation and to an extent. When there aren't client projects, there isn't going to be that many hours of work. When you are working with active client projects, it does take between 30-80 hours a week.
That's exactly why I noted that this goes back years with you. Other regulars' posting ebbs and flows along with their workload, interest, and other life priorities, but yours rarely slows for more than a few days. It's relentless. I've seen you write before about the various reasons (economic, family, educational, bogus, and so on) that pretty much every year between the mid 80s and now has not been a good year for your business(es). But some of them could have had a better shot at being good years if you weren't spending the equivalent of a full time job on this and other forums, pretending to do the professions that you write about. There is no continued time period in which you haven't put 16-40 hours worth of words per week onto this and other forums in any of the past 20 years. Have you ever considered becoming a full time blogger and monetizing that? It's pretty much the only thing you seem to have sustained passion for. People pay for word count - and you can certainly generate it - why don't you try that direction.
N.S., the online exam scheduling won't be until mid-November. The first exam that I may begin maybe sometime in December. It's still mid-September. The amount of time I'll be spending on studying for the ARE will begin increasing in the upcoming week but incrementally increasing towards a more intensive level of studying in the one to two months timeframe before the exam. So, yeah, posting less would be happening and posts will likely be more focused on the ARE exams.
Don’t you do any steel detailing for architects? That might be an entry into more architecture related stuff, not necessarily immediately a job as an architect or junior architect or however the title is. But as a business owner yourself would you really like some smug architect-know-it-all making half your salary tell you what to do on a day to day basis? I think you’ll be setting yourself up for some frustrating times if you go the traditional internship route...it will take you years to end up somewhere halfway from where you already are. What about starting your own architectural design firm by hiring your own mentor?