Our ever-surprising building department here in Portland Oregon is now doing primarily online permit applications in response to Covid-19. They rejected the last project I submitted because it contained grayscale objects in the PDF file (in their list of rules, they state no grayscales allowed in submitted documents). Fortunately, that project was small and it only took a couple of hours to remove all of the gray scale elements (I left window elevations that had glass in grayscale, and they apparently did not object to that on the second round). What was most frustrating about it was that two details where direct downloads from the City's website of standard details for tree protection and stormwater mitigation with lots of gray scale...
I subsequently contacted intake personnel and proposed that I simply put a disclaimer on the plans, calculations, and worksheets stating that where grayscales appear in the document, it will not affect their content, and they said that would be sufficient to counter summary rejection. I'm stuck on how to word it.
Here's what I have so far:
Note to Plans Examiner: This document may contain grayscale objects and has been reviewed by the architect to verify that, when printed or photocopied, grayscale color values changes will not affect the information provided.
Any thoughts on wording? They are apparently concerned mostly about grays printing or copying too dark (on their pre-1970's mimeograph machines, I suppose) and obscuring information.
atelier nobody
Jun 29, 20 7:24 pm
They're requiring a permit for Covid now?!?!? Preposterous!
SpatialSojourner
Jun 29, 20 8:24 pm
Are you fine with the hatch turning out pitch black? I think you vastly underestimate the ability for things to end up getting messed up. There have been times where I'm impressed at how my drawing have turned into modern art via the act of someone printing.
curtkram
Jun 29, 20 8:49 pm
you submit pdfs, then the city actually prints them? like on paper? at whose cost?
proto
Jun 30, 20 12:20 pm
that really is asinine
SneakyPete
Jun 29, 20 9:04 pm
Note: Architect is not responsible for reprographic services they did not provide.
Don't verify, certify, promise, warrant, guarantee or any other word anything you don't know to be true. If you know it to be true, think twice and then still avoid it.
proto
Jun 30, 20 12:17 pm
"This document may contain grayscale objects and has been reviewed by the architect to verify that, when printed or photocopied, grayscale color values will not affect the required code information provided."
[deleted "changes" after value & added an s to values]
Please use this thread to talk about any other foibles of the new system. Other Portland architects will find it useful.
Not surprised they called you out on their own stuff. Classic bureaucratic bs. I think Portland does a good job usually, but they have their moments where you want to scream. :)
proto
Jun 30, 20 12:23 pm
@ beenthere
How easy is the new system to use?
Any other things to know going in?
mightyaa
Jun 30, 20 2:18 pm
Lol at this; if you’ve sat on the review agency side, you sort of ‘get it’. Submittal checklist sorts of things often cater to ‘worst case scenario’ and are rehashed. Basically, there was a committee of managers who sat around developing a checklists thinking it can catch everything required for a proper plan review; oh, btw, this was in 1950. Because your jurisdiction is lazy, they ‘borrowed the language’ from somewhere; that same list was rehashed. Over time, as problems occurred, some other village idiot decided a new checkbox was necessary to avoid that problem. Another decade passes, more checkboxes are added. Add a generation, and no one can tell you anymore ‘why’ greyscale isn’t allowed, but they can tell you it is required; Don’t try and get that banana. https://www.smartdraw.com/management/corporate-culture.htm
Our ever-surprising building department here in Portland Oregon is now doing primarily online permit applications in response to Covid-19. They rejected the last project I submitted because it contained grayscale objects in the PDF file (in their list of rules, they state no grayscales allowed in submitted documents). Fortunately, that project was small and it only took a couple of hours to remove all of the gray scale elements (I left window elevations that had glass in grayscale, and they apparently did not object to that on the second round). What was most frustrating about it was that two details where direct downloads from the City's website of standard details for tree protection and stormwater mitigation with lots of gray scale...
I subsequently contacted intake personnel and proposed that I simply put a disclaimer on the plans, calculations, and worksheets stating that where grayscales appear in the document, it will not affect their content, and they said that would be sufficient to counter summary rejection. I'm stuck on how to word it.
Here's what I have so far:
Note to Plans Examiner:
This document may contain grayscale objects and has been reviewed by the architect to verify that, when printed or photocopied, grayscale color values changes will not affect the information provided.
Any thoughts on wording? They are apparently concerned mostly about grays printing or copying too dark (on their pre-1970's mimeograph machines, I suppose) and obscuring information.
They're requiring a permit for Covid now?!?!? Preposterous!
Are you fine with the hatch turning out pitch black? I think you vastly underestimate the ability for things to end up getting messed up. There have been times where I'm impressed at how my drawing have turned into modern art via the act of someone printing.
you submit pdfs, then the city actually prints them? like on paper? at whose cost?
that really is asinine
Note: Architect is not responsible for reprographic services they did not provide.
Don't verify, certify, promise, warrant, guarantee or any other word anything you don't know to be true. If you know it to be true, think twice and then still avoid it.
"This document may contain grayscale objects and has been reviewed by the architect to verify that, when printed or photocopied, grayscale color values will not affect the required code information provided."
[deleted "changes" after value & added an s to values]
Please use this thread to talk about any other foibles of the new system. Other Portland architects will find it useful.
Not surprised they called you out on their own stuff. Classic bureaucratic bs. I think Portland does a good job usually, but they have their moments where you want to scream. :)
@ beenthere
How easy is the new system to use?
Any other things to know going in?
Lol at this; if you’ve sat on the review agency side, you sort of ‘get it’. Submittal checklist sorts of things often cater to ‘worst case scenario’ and are rehashed. Basically, there was a committee of managers who sat around developing a checklists thinking it can catch everything required for a proper plan review; oh, btw, this was in 1950. Because your jurisdiction is lazy, they ‘borrowed the language’ from somewhere; that same list was rehashed. Over time, as problems occurred, some other village idiot decided a new checkbox was necessary to avoid that problem. Another decade passes, more checkboxes are added. Add a generation, and no one can tell you anymore ‘why’ greyscale isn’t allowed, but they can tell you it is required; Don’t try and get that banana. https://www.smartdraw.com/management/corporate-culture.htm