I only ask this question because I have seen many projects that come from "experienced" architects get a lot of criticism for lack of creativity and looking like a student's project. I watched the Bjarke Ingel's netflix episode and he received some criticism from the archinect podcast saying that his company sucks and that someone's 9 year old does more interesting shit in minecraft. So I am really confused, should my architecture design be more creative, at the risk of looking juvenile or should my design be creative but more reserved to look more mature?
midlander
Jun 16, 20 4:23 am
you're trying to extract specific design advice from generic criticism of other architects work. this isn't going to be useful. everyone will have their own views of things which you are free to observe or ignore as you feel appropriate.
in my mind maturity in architects means having a rich understanding of the daily and long term usage of spaces, how buildings and cities grow or decay over time, and what cultural representation a strong work should aim to provide. it's not an easy recipe. that's why it's hard even for talented stars to get it right all the time.
randomised
Jun 16, 20 5:32 am
It will become more mature when you stop giving a damn about what others think of your projects. Do your more creative "student" projects and simply learn how to get them realised.
Akira
Jun 16, 20 2:14 pm
True, I do try to have thick skin about my projects, but I do think its good to have other's people input on them as well, I try to see how other people would view my project
s-a-m-a-n-t-h-a
Jun 16, 20 11:13 am
It's about execution.
"someone's 9 year old does more interesting shit in minecraft" why don't they hire the 9-year-old then? They're looking for your weak points and trying to bring you down maybe because they're intimidated by unique ideas. Do your thing... there are too many boring architecture in this world already.
Akira
Jun 16, 20 2:26 pm
Yea I do not agree with the criticism being made there, the criticism is ironically trying to sound smart. I do agree there is too many boring architecture, but it is really hard to do something unconventional or new, otherwise it is considered unrealistic
mightyaa
Jun 16, 20 12:39 pm
I’ll take a wag. A juvenile design might be something simplistic; like a library that is shaped like a book with some windows punched in. A “adult” take comes from development of the concept and refining. “God is in the details.” You can sketch a cartoon, or make a graphic novel, and really the difference is the development of the concept behind ‘what is the point’ and the presentation. So with that library; a simplistic design is literally a giant book. A refined might be breaking down what a book is, how it is bound, how it is organized, and using those ideas as the core of your concept for progression through the building. It will have appropriate scale, functionality, and purpose. It can still be fun, whimsical, etc. but has a lot of deeper thoughts behind ‘why you did that’; instead of a simplistic, juvenile, literal translation..
Non Sequitur
Jun 16, 20 12:52 pm
I would attribute juvenile to the classic studio critique land-mine known as the dreaded "one-liner" discussion.
whistler
Jun 16, 20 2:01 pm
I agree with the above comment. The other commentary I remember well from school is knowing the difference between "simple" and "simplistic"... or making great ideas small vs. making a dumb idea really big!
Akira
Jun 16, 20 2:32 pm
Okay I get it, so a design that is more "surface-leveled" would be more juvenile, so a mature design would be something deep with bigger meaning
whistler
Jun 16, 20 3:43 pm
Not quite, A library that resembles a book is simplistic but a library that reflects the nature and relevance of it's purpose, it's role in the community, significance as a cultural institution, it's changing role in society and assembled in a manner that reflects a local vernacular or building traditions that could be simple but also have a multitude of ideas to create a more in-depth or comprehensive level of meaning to the community than something that looks like a book
.
Non Sequitur
Jun 16, 20 4:09 pm
And to add to Whistler's point, not every thing needs deeper "meaning". Careful and selective restraint is also a sign of design maturity.
whistler
Jun 16, 20 4:34 pm
Agreed, editing and distilling one's ideas is paramount to being thorough with your design process....not uncommon to see in
experienced architects trying to throw in every idea they ever had into one project.
zonker
Jun 16, 20 1:59 pm
I used to do video game design before architecture, which is as immature as it gets. I'm that 9 year old. When in Arch. school, my professor showed me Bjarke Ingels. "try this approach" Bjarke, started out to be a comic book designer, before going into architecture. See hos book 'Yes is More, and archicomic on architecture evolution" Many of his designs are based on video game concepts of event spaces, sequences.actually he learned a lot of that from when he was with OMA and Rem
Akira
Jun 16, 20 2:05 pm
I see, I like video game design as well,but I dont know how to code. I feel there can be a lot of inspiration for architecture.
zonker
Jun 16, 20 2:37 pm
You don't need to code, but it sure helps, python and C# - that being said, you can be inspired by games. TU Delft had a program that was the gameification of architecture
Akira
Jun 16, 20 2:42 pm
Oh okay I did not know that, I liked titanfall 2's game design
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 2:58 pm
Don’t kill the wisdom of youth for the illusion of maturity.
x-jla
Jun 16, 20 3:00 pm
Rather, figure out how to materialize it through discipline and craft.
zonker
Jun 17, 20 5:26 pm
So true, Don't let "old age and treachery triumph over youth and wisdom" always come from a place of your initial vision
mightyaa
Jun 18, 20 12:03 pm
Man... I'm struggling to understand how you can put together 'youth' with 'wisdom'. Wisdom; the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement.
Chad Miller
Jun 18, 20 12:52 pm
You can be young and have experience, knowledge, and good judgement . It requires intelligence and social maturity.
x-jla
Jun 18, 20 3:44 pm
The wisdom of youth allows you to focus on the butterflies rather than the weeds...
mightyaa
Jun 18, 20 8:29 pm
Meh... I associate wisdom as the lessons you learn from your experiences; often these lessons involve scars. Working with young designers is awesome; most of that is because they haven't been 'tempered by life' and realities of the world. They don't know because they haven't 'done that before' so they approach design differently. But...Those younger think they are 'wise' already... So sorry... Youth in my head hasn't had enough experience where I could say they are wise. Its sort of like asking any 13 year old if they think they are mature. They are maturing... which is not mature. Wisdom in architecture? My litigation case drawings are usually 5-10 years old. That basically means any sub-30 year old probably hasn't even had a design tested by time long enough to know if they made 'good choices' much less wise ones. "On paper" it might look the part, but by the time it's built and faces a 90mph wind driven rain or a hundred freeze-thaw cycles... we'll see.
x-jla
Jun 18, 20 9:07 pm
I see what you are saying, and agree, but that’s craft and discipline and experience. I associate the word wisdom with a deeper understanding of what matters...it seems like we have a better grasp on that in our youth, and on our death beds.
kenchiku
Jun 17, 20 6:06 pm
When your concept is present from the broad brush stroke of the overall idea down to the construction detailing.
will galloway
Jun 17, 20 11:58 pm
this is an impossible question, unfortunately.
Sou Fujimoto tells the story about how he spent years walking around the city to work out his approach. Maturity comes from the deep dive, or from years of mindful experience. There isnt really any way around that. Bjarke is a special case. He got to build significant works before he was really mature, though even then his work was quite good, and focused. That he knew himself and his business well enough at such a young age is impressive.
As long as you are questioning your work and learning from what you are doing eventually you will get where you want to be. The more you work the better you will be at it, in which case try to work as much as possible...don't worry about the rest too much, unless it makes sense to do so.
monosierra
Jun 18, 20 12:44 pm
A lot of work goes into making designs look "simple". That work requires technical finesse, a deep knowledge of building systems and detailing, and the creative mind to optimize the best way to build - from material selection, procurement, fabrication, assembly. The stylo-mylo architect might conceive of a simple looking, diagrammatic design but it takes an army to push that into constructed reality- and therein lies the magic of architecture. Yes, any kid might be able to come up with a lofted surface indeed. Building it in an efficient and feasible manner is a totally different business.
I believe a solid understanding of architectural history and theory, plus a good dose of care and empathy, and a solid grasp of material possibilities and detailing could open the mind and push a simple design into rarified territory - of invention, so to speak, which is hard to come by. Excellent client and team management skills are essential too or one would never be able to convince the powers that be of investment beyond the bare minimal. All these are ingredients to a so-called mature design.
I only ask this question because I have seen many projects that come from "experienced" architects get a lot of criticism for lack of creativity and looking like a student's project. I watched the Bjarke Ingel's netflix episode and he received some criticism from the archinect podcast saying that his company sucks and that someone's 9 year old does more interesting shit in minecraft. So I am really confused, should my architecture design be more creative, at the risk of looking juvenile or should my design be creative but more reserved to look more mature?
you're trying to extract specific design advice from generic criticism of other architects work. this isn't going to be useful. everyone will have their own views of things which you are free to observe or ignore as you feel appropriate.
in my mind maturity in architects means having a rich understanding of the daily and long term usage of spaces, how buildings and cities grow or decay over time, and what cultural representation a strong work should aim to provide. it's not an easy recipe. that's why it's hard even for talented stars to get it right all the time.
It will become more mature when you stop giving a damn about what others think of your projects. Do your more creative "student" projects and simply learn how to get them realised.
True, I do try to have thick skin about my projects, but I do think its good to have other's people input on them as well, I try to see how other people would view my project
It's about execution.
"someone's 9 year old does more interesting shit in minecraft" why don't they hire the 9-year-old then? They're looking for your weak points and trying to bring you down maybe because they're intimidated by unique ideas. Do your thing... there are too many boring architecture in this world already.
Yea I do not agree with the criticism being made there, the criticism is ironically trying to sound smart. I do agree there is too many boring architecture, but it is really hard to do something unconventional or new, otherwise it is considered unrealistic
I’ll take a wag. A juvenile design might be something simplistic; like a library that is shaped like a book with some windows punched in. A “adult” take comes from development of the concept and refining. “God is in the details.” You can sketch a cartoon, or make a graphic novel, and really the difference is the development of the concept behind ‘what is the point’ and the presentation. So with that library; a simplistic design is literally a giant book. A refined might be breaking down what a book is, how it is bound, how it is organized, and using those ideas as the core of your concept for progression through the building. It will have appropriate scale, functionality, and purpose. It can still be fun, whimsical, etc. but has a lot of deeper thoughts behind ‘why you did that’; instead of a simplistic, juvenile, literal translation..
I would attribute juvenile to the classic studio critique land-mine known as the dreaded "one-liner" discussion.
I agree with the above comment. The other commentary I remember well from school is knowing the difference between "simple" and "simplistic"... or making great ideas small vs. making a dumb idea really big!
Okay I get it, so a design that is more "surface-leveled" would be more juvenile, so a mature design would be something deep with bigger meaning
Not quite, A library that resembles a book is simplistic but a library that reflects the nature and relevance of it's purpose, it's role in the community, significance as a cultural institution, it's changing role in society and assembled in a manner that reflects a local vernacular or building traditions that could be simple but also have a multitude of ideas to create a more in-depth or comprehensive level of meaning to the community than something that looks like a book .
And to add to Whistler's point, not every thing needs deeper "meaning". Careful and selective restraint is also a sign of design maturity.
Agreed, editing and distilling one's ideas is paramount to being thorough with your design process....not uncommon to see in experienced architects trying to throw in every idea they ever had into one project.
I used to do video game design before architecture, which is as immature as it gets. I'm that 9 year old. When in Arch. school, my professor showed me Bjarke Ingels. "try this approach" Bjarke, started out to be a comic book designer, before going into architecture. See hos book 'Yes is More, and archicomic on architecture evolution" Many of his designs are based on video game concepts of event spaces, sequences.actually he learned a lot of that from when he was with OMA and Rem
I see, I like video game design as well,but I dont know how to code. I feel there can be a lot of inspiration for architecture.
You don't need to code, but it sure helps, python and C# - that being said, you can be inspired by games. TU Delft had a program that was the gameification of architecture
Oh okay I did not know that, I liked titanfall 2's game design
Don’t kill the wisdom of youth for the illusion of maturity.
Rather, figure out how to materialize it through discipline and craft.
So true, Don't let "old age and treachery triumph over youth and wisdom" always come from a place of your initial vision
Man... I'm struggling to understand how you can put together 'youth' with 'wisdom'. Wisdom; the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgement.
You can be young and have experience, knowledge, and good judgement . It requires intelligence and social maturity.
The wisdom of youth allows you to focus on the butterflies rather than the weeds...
Meh... I associate wisdom as the lessons you learn from your experiences; often these lessons involve scars. Working with young designers is awesome; most of that is because they haven't been 'tempered by life' and realities of the world. They don't know because they haven't 'done that before' so they approach design differently. But...Those younger think they are 'wise' already... So sorry... Youth in my head hasn't had enough experience where I could say they are wise. Its sort of like asking any 13 year old if they think they are mature. They are maturing... which is not mature. Wisdom in architecture? My litigation case drawings are usually 5-10 years old. That basically means any sub-30 year old probably hasn't even had a design tested by time long enough to know if they made 'good choices' much less wise ones. "On paper" it might look the part, but by the time it's built and faces a 90mph wind driven rain or a hundred freeze-thaw cycles... we'll see.
I see what you are saying, and agree, but that’s craft and discipline and experience. I associate the word wisdom with a deeper understanding of what matters...it seems like we have a better grasp on that in our youth, and on our death beds.
When your concept is present from the broad brush stroke of the overall idea down to the construction detailing.
this is an impossible question, unfortunately.
Sou Fujimoto tells the story about how he spent years walking around the city to work out his approach. Maturity comes from the deep dive, or from years of mindful experience. There isnt really any way around that. Bjarke is a special case. He got to build significant works before he was really mature, though even then his work was quite good, and focused. That he knew himself and his business well enough at such a young age is impressive.
As long as you are questioning your work and learning from what you are doing eventually you will get where you want to be. The more you work the better you will be at it, in which case try to work as much as possible...don't worry about the rest too much, unless it makes sense to do so.
A lot of work goes into making designs look "simple". That work requires technical finesse, a deep knowledge of building systems and detailing, and the creative mind to optimize the best way to build - from material selection, procurement, fabrication, assembly. The stylo-mylo architect might conceive of a simple looking, diagrammatic design but it takes an army to push that into constructed reality- and therein lies the magic of architecture. Yes, any kid might be able to come up with a lofted surface indeed. Building it in an efficient and feasible manner is a totally different business.
I believe a solid understanding of architectural history and theory, plus a good dose of care and empathy, and a solid grasp of material possibilities and detailing could open the mind and push a simple design into rarified territory - of invention, so to speak, which is hard to come by. Excellent client and team management skills are essential too or one would never be able to convince the powers that be of investment beyond the bare minimal. All these are ingredients to a so-called mature design.