So, I just graduated from the University of Minnesota MArch program this fall. I'm coming into an unprecedented job market with COVID 19 and I don't have a job. I applied for a position with a one man residential firm in the area and I landed the job. I find out during the application process that it is a "contract" position, month to month with hourly pay. The contract I was initially given states that I will not be covered under his LLC's liability insurance. I assume that I will need to get my own liability insurance. I am not licensed as an architect at the point and I'm still working on getting all of my AXP hours filled. He has also agreed to pay for software that I would use on my own personal laptop, and I would be working both remotely and at his home office. My work would be reviewed by him and signed off on by him. My question is, can I get liability insurance as an unlicensed designer, and do I still qualify as an independent contractor according to the Dept of Labor, or am I an employee since he is paying for my software and possibly other work essentials?
archi_dude
Jun 7, 20 9:05 pm
This might not be correct in your locality so check with your state but if he controls where you work at all it's not a legit 1099. He's breaking the law to get a cheaper employee while paying you as contract and forcing you to take on extra costs. Sadly this happens when the job market gets tough. Puts you in a super tough spot becuase it forces you to choose between career Experience or to stand up for your rights. It doesn't hurt to be informed though and if things get rocky you'll be able to remind where the law stands on the shady way he's running his firm. *again research your states 1099 contract laws though.
thisisnotmyname
Jun 8, 20 9:06 am
Run Away! Don't go to work for this person. The proposed working arrangement is not appropriate for a 1099 employee and making an unlicensed drafter buy insurance is pretty unusual. The person doesn't appear to see the problems with this unfavorable (to you) arrangement they are proposing and I suspect working for them would not be a lot of fun.
Everyday Architect
Jun 8, 20 12:27 pm
If I were you, I'd look elsewhere. This isn't the type of relationship an aspiring architect like you needs to be in. I know it's tempting to take anything you can at the moment. I would be extremely careful doing so and keep an eye toward your overall career goals. If you do decide to take the position, make sure you understand the trade offs and negotiate your compensation appropriately. What hourly rate is he offering you?
You should also know that work as an independent contractor should not count toward your AXP experience hours. It has to do with the supervisor relationship and 1099 status. If you're correctly classified as a 1099, they can't claim direct supervision over your work to sign off on the hours. And if they claim direct supervision over your work, they aren't classifying your employment status correctly, and that probably wouldn't be considered to be lawful practice by your jurisdiction. Experience Setting A requires that the hours are directly supervised by an architect who is legally practicing architecture. So unless you only have a handful of hours left that you can get through pathways in Setting O, I'd look elsewhere for this reason alone.
thisisnotmyname
Jun 8, 20 1:30 pm
Making your interns work as 1099ers seems all too common. Last year, I had several class of 2019 graduates tell me most of the job offers they were getting were for 1099 type "contract" arrangements.
I just don't get why employers insist on doing it that way. My costs to obey the law and have my staff be employees seems pretty minimal.
Everyday Architect
Jun 8, 20 1:45 pm
I think there are very few things that someone fresh out of school could legitimately do as a 1099. Drafting tasks is probably about the extent of it. Even then, it's dependent on the graduate being able to independently practice in such a manner. I've also wondered in those cases if there could be an argument against the graduate for practicing without a license.
As for why employers do it this way, for better or worse, I think the bigger firms are doing it as a means to avoid outsourcing drafting work overseas. The smaller firms, like the sole-proprietor in this example, are probably doing it because they need the help to handle their workload, but can't (or won't) figure out how to hire an employee correctly.
Chad Miller
Jun 8, 20 2:25 pm
I wouldn't take this position. There are a few red flags in your post.
1. Hiring interns as contract employees is a sure sign of firm that doesn't care about you our your professional development but only cares about money.
2. Monthly contract that is hourly - sounds like you're not guaranteed a 40 hour work week and are just 'on call' for drafting.
3. The boss is dictating where you work - you're not a contract employee then and due benefits (unemployment insurance for one)
4. Isn't going to put you under his firms LLC - this opens you up to a huge liability as your boss can blame issues on you and sue you
Your liability insurance will likely be more than you're being paid in a month because you have not work experience so you premiums will be much, much higher.
Everyday Architect
Jun 8, 20 2:35 pm
The whole liability insurance thing is interesting. What's not clear is if the architect is simply indicating that the "employee" isn't covered under his general liability insurance, or if he is not covered under his professional liability insurance. Note that the OP assumes they will have to provide their own, not that the architect is requiring them to provide it.
For general liability, I don't think he really has the option of excluding anyone from it especially if he indicates that they must come to his place of business (his home office).
For professional liability, I don't see how he could seal the OP's work as his own without incurring the liability for it.
Chad Miller
Jun 8, 20 2:48 pm
That's exactly what I was thinking which makes the employer seem even more shady. Why tell the OP that he/she isn't going to be under his LLC?
burnh039
Jun 8, 20 3:22 pm
The employer isn't asking me to get my own liability insurance. He is simply saying that I will not be under his LLC's liability insurance. I'm not sure if its general or practice. I don't think I would need liability insurance though since I won't be signing any drawings. He will be reviewing my work and signing it. So, from my limited understanding, he would be taking responsibility at that point.
burnh039
Jun 8, 20 3:24 pm
As far as hours. It sounds like there is more than enough to keep me busy for 40 hours a week for the next month or two. Beyond that, it isn't certain.
burnh039
Jun 8, 20 3:24 pm
It sounds like he wants me to help him juggle multiple tasks, not just drafting.
Chad Miller
Jun 8, 20 5:11 pm
burnh039 - if you're not under the owners general liability insurance then you're on the hook for errors in the drawings if the owner says something like: 'I told em to make this change before sending that RFI response and it didn't and that's why it was built wrong . . ' then the owner can sue you.
burnh039
Jun 8, 20 3:10 pm
So some more info. the employer is offering 40$/hour in recognition of the fact that there isn't PTO or benefits. From what I can tell, as an unlicensed designer, I cannot sign off on drawings, so I wouldn't be under liability on a project because my work was being reviewed and signed by the employer. He doesn't seem to be out to just save money and has been very forthright with me about his expectations and what this type of position means for me. The AXP question is a big one. He isn't registered, just Associate AIA. I'm guessing that means that he can't certify my AXP hours. He also isn't mandating where I work. I can work remotely or I can work in his office if I choose. There isn't a stipulation on where or when I work, just an expectation of between 30-40 hours a week.
Everyday Architect
Jun 8, 20 3:43 pm
More reason in my mind for you to leave this opportunity on the table and look elsewhere if you want to become an architect. As he is not an architect, in the eyes of the law he carries no more or less liability in providing his services than you would ... you would both be unlicensed designers providing services on exempt buildings. As you would be an independent contractor, rather than his employee, you would be just as open to liability as he would be.
Re: AXP hours ... He is not an architect, and he could only approve hours in Experience Setting O for design or construction related employment (still requires that you are his employee, not an independent contractor, in my estimation). You're limited to a maximum of 320 hours in that category. That's only 8 weeks of 40 hour weeks if all of your hours relate to AXP tasks as outlined in NCARB's AXP Guidelines.
Chad Miller
Jun 8, 20 5:13 pm
What EA said. If you're not working under the supervision of an architect licensed in the state the work is in then you both liable for anything in the drawings you worked on. This is why the employer said that you will not be under his LLC. FOR THIS SITUATION YOU NEED LIABILITY INSURANCE.
thatsthat
Jun 8, 20 5:24 pm
It is my understanding that some state boards do not accept a 1099 arrangement in fulfillment of experience requirements. (NYS for example, requires 3 years of work experience candidates can fulfill concurrently with AXP. However, NCARB may accept your experience under Experience Setting O as E_A explained, but the state board may not accept that experience. Any amount of time the OP worked as a 1099 contractor would have to be made up in a setting approved by the state's guidelines.) The OP would need to check his/her individual state's requirements.
So, I just graduated from the University of Minnesota MArch program this fall. I'm coming into an unprecedented job market with COVID 19 and I don't have a job. I applied for a position with a one man residential firm in the area and I landed the job. I find out during the application process that it is a "contract" position, month to month with hourly pay. The contract I was initially given states that I will not be covered under his LLC's liability insurance. I assume that I will need to get my own liability insurance. I am not licensed as an architect at the point and I'm still working on getting all of my AXP hours filled. He has also agreed to pay for software that I would use on my own personal laptop, and I would be working both remotely and at his home office. My work would be reviewed by him and signed off on by him. My question is, can I get liability insurance as an unlicensed designer, and do I still qualify as an independent contractor according to the Dept of Labor, or am I an employee since he is paying for my software and possibly other work essentials?
This might not be correct in your locality so check with your state but if he controls where you work at all it's not a legit 1099. He's breaking the law to get a cheaper employee while paying you as contract and forcing you to take on extra costs. Sadly this happens when the job market gets tough. Puts you in a super tough spot becuase it forces you to choose between career Experience or to stand up for your rights. It doesn't hurt to be informed though and if things get rocky you'll be able to remind where the law stands on the shady way he's running his firm. *again research your states 1099 contract laws though.
Run Away! Don't go to work for this person. The proposed working arrangement is not appropriate for a 1099 employee and making an unlicensed drafter buy insurance is pretty unusual. The person doesn't appear to see the problems with this unfavorable (to you) arrangement they are proposing and I suspect working for them would not be a lot of fun.
If I were you, I'd look elsewhere. This isn't the type of relationship an aspiring architect like you needs to be in. I know it's tempting to take anything you can at the moment. I would be extremely careful doing so and keep an eye toward your overall career goals. If you do decide to take the position, make sure you understand the trade offs and negotiate your compensation appropriately. What hourly rate is he offering you?
You should also know that work as an independent contractor should not count toward your AXP experience hours. It has to do with the supervisor relationship and 1099 status. If you're correctly classified as a 1099, they can't claim direct supervision over your work to sign off on the hours. And if they claim direct supervision over your work, they aren't classifying your employment status correctly, and that probably wouldn't be considered to be lawful practice by your jurisdiction. Experience Setting A requires that the hours are directly supervised by an architect who is legally practicing architecture. So unless you only have a handful of hours left that you can get through pathways in Setting O, I'd look elsewhere for this reason alone.
Making your interns work as 1099ers seems all too common. Last year, I had several class of 2019 graduates tell me most of the job offers they were getting were for 1099 type "contract" arrangements.
I just don't get why employers insist on doing it that way. My costs to obey the law and have my staff be employees seems pretty minimal.
I think there are very few things that someone fresh out of school could legitimately do as a 1099. Drafting tasks is probably about the extent of it. Even then, it's dependent on the graduate being able to independently practice in such a manner. I've also wondered in those cases if there could be an argument against the graduate for practicing without a license.
As for why employers do it this way, for better or worse, I think the bigger firms are doing it as a means to avoid outsourcing drafting work overseas. The smaller firms, like the sole-proprietor in this example, are probably doing it because they need the help to handle their workload, but can't (or won't) figure out how to hire an employee correctly.
I wouldn't take this position. There are a few red flags in your post.
1. Hiring interns as contract employees is a sure sign of firm that doesn't care about you our your professional development but only cares about money.
2. Monthly contract that is hourly - sounds like you're not guaranteed a 40 hour work week and are just 'on call' for drafting.
3. The boss is dictating where you work - you're not a contract employee then and due benefits (unemployment insurance for one)
4. Isn't going to put you under his firms LLC - this opens you up to a huge liability as your boss can blame issues on you and sue you
Your liability insurance will likely be more than you're being paid in a month because you have not work experience so you premiums will be much, much higher.
The whole liability insurance thing is interesting. What's not clear is if the architect is simply indicating that the "employee" isn't covered under his general liability insurance, or if he is not covered under his professional liability insurance. Note that the OP assumes they will have to provide their own, not that the architect is requiring them to provide it.
For general liability, I don't think he really has the option of excluding anyone from it especially if he indicates that they must come to his place of business (his home office).
For professional liability, I don't see how he could seal the OP's work as his own without incurring the liability for it.
That's exactly what I was thinking which makes the employer seem even more shady. Why tell the OP that he/she isn't going to be under his LLC?
The employer isn't asking me to get my own liability insurance. He is simply saying that I will not be under his LLC's liability insurance. I'm not sure if its general or practice. I don't think I would need liability insurance though since I won't be signing any drawings. He will be reviewing my work and signing it. So, from my limited understanding, he would be taking responsibility at that point.
As far as hours. It sounds like there is more than enough to keep me busy for 40 hours a week for the next month or two. Beyond that, it isn't certain.
It sounds like he wants me to help him juggle multiple tasks, not just drafting.
burnh039 - if you're not under the owners general liability insurance then you're on the hook for errors in the drawings if the owner says something like: 'I told em to make this change before sending that RFI response and it didn't and that's why it was built wrong . . ' then the owner can sue you.
So some more info. the employer is offering 40$/hour in recognition of the fact that there isn't PTO or benefits. From what I can tell, as an unlicensed designer, I cannot sign off on drawings, so I wouldn't be under liability on a project because my work was being reviewed and signed by the employer. He doesn't seem to be out to just save money and has been very forthright with me about his expectations and what this type of position means for me. The AXP question is a big one. He isn't registered, just Associate AIA. I'm guessing that means that he can't certify my AXP hours. He also isn't mandating where I work. I can work remotely or I can work in his office if I choose. There isn't a stipulation on where or when I work, just an expectation of between 30-40 hours a week.
More reason in my mind for you to leave this opportunity on the table and look elsewhere if you want to become an architect. As he is not an architect, in the eyes of the law he carries no more or less liability in providing his services than you would ... you would both be unlicensed designers providing services on exempt buildings. As you would be an independent contractor, rather than his employee, you would be just as open to liability as he would be.
Re: AXP hours ... He is not an architect, and he could only approve hours in Experience Setting O for design or construction related employment (still requires that you are his employee, not an independent contractor, in my estimation). You're limited to a maximum of 320 hours in that category. That's only 8 weeks of 40 hour weeks if all of your hours relate to AXP tasks as outlined in NCARB's AXP Guidelines.
What EA said. If you're not working under the supervision of an architect licensed in the state the work is in then you both liable for anything in the drawings you worked on. This is why the employer said that you will not be under his LLC. FOR THIS SITUATION YOU NEED LIABILITY INSURANCE.
It is my understanding that some state boards do not accept a 1099 arrangement in fulfillment of experience requirements. (NYS for example, requires 3 years of work experience candidates can fulfill concurrently with AXP. However, NCARB may accept your experience under Experience Setting O as E_A explained, but the state board may not accept that experience. Any amount of time the OP worked as a 1099 contractor would have to be made up in a setting approved by the state's guidelines.) The OP would need to check his/her individual state's requirements.