So I'm reading this thing about a new Siza project in NYC. And they're talking about the cladding:
The developer rejected his (Siza's) proposal for a white marble façade as expensive and impractical, and instead substituted prefabricated panels with a veneer of sugar-white limestone glued onto an aluminum backing. “The results are unpredictable. It looks like something new and brilliant but I am doubtful — no, I am merely ignorant — about how well it will stand up over time.” Even a man of his experience can still learn, he tells me, sounding only half convinced. Maybe, he reflects, it doesn’t matter that much how well a Manhattan high-rise ages, since it’s not expected to last for centuries."
I'm not experienced enough in this, but this alarms me. Is this a standard, well worn building product - stone veneer glued to aluminum? I see it described as "New and Brilliant" - that scares me. My fear has to do with the thermal expansion and contraction cycles. Aluminum and Stone have significantly different responses to heat gain/loss and how it effects their expansion and contraction, yes?
Is this going to be another Hancock Tower thing where the facade, or parts of it, starts popping off and crashing down onto the unsuspecting passers-by. I imagine if the glue is strong enough to maintain the bond, it will crack the stone; if the glue isn't strong enough, then the veneer is going to just peel away in a few years. Both unenviable situations for the sidewalk and its inhabitants.
Whats' the Temperature delta in NYC - 110 degrees over the year?
Are my fears sensible or am I overreacting? Thanks.
Article is on New York magazine website.
Miles Jaffe
Oct 3, 19 11:11 am
Practicality is measured by cost, not health and safety. Siza should have rejected the changes and quit if not corrected.
SneakyPete
Oct 3, 19 11:49 am
Stone veneer on honeycomb substrate has been around for a while, now. Check with the manufacturer. Conservative rule of thumb: if the technology is newer than the amount of time they warranty it, you may want to reconsider.
Rusty!
Oct 3, 19 12:05 pm
There are so many cladding options available these days that will outperform what is described here. Sintered stone is all the rage now. From fancy fiber cement boards to phenolic. So many options. I personally shy away from honeycomb aluminum (strongback!) products. They were all the rage over a decade ago. There is no need for them really.
This is an issue of an Architect pushing a very limited palette on a budget conscious contractor who is responding with their own limited choices.
Menona
Oct 3, 19 12:41 pm
Well if it's something that's been done before on a relatively large scale, I'm not as concerned. And a honeycomb substrate would make it less terrifying.
I read that part of the article and imagined a solid aluminum sheet with stone stuck onto the face with glue. It seemed like they were inventing it for this project. I had images of jagged hunks of limestone popping off the 30th floor and going down to street level and getting embedded into the thing that holds someone's college education.
So I'm reading this thing about a new Siza project in NYC. And they're talking about the cladding:
The developer rejected his (Siza's) proposal for a white marble façade as
expensive and impractical, and instead substituted prefabricated panels with a veneer of sugar-white limestone glued onto an aluminum backing.
“The results are unpredictable. It looks like something new and
brilliant but I am doubtful — no, I am merely ignorant — about how well
it will stand up over time.” Even a man of his experience can still
learn, he tells me, sounding only half convinced. Maybe, he reflects, it
doesn’t matter that much how well a Manhattan high-rise ages, since
it’s not expected to last for centuries."
I'm not experienced enough in this, but this alarms me. Is this a standard, well worn building product - stone veneer glued to aluminum? I see it described as "New and Brilliant" - that scares me. My fear has to do with the thermal expansion and contraction cycles. Aluminum and Stone have significantly different responses to heat gain/loss and how it effects their expansion and contraction, yes?
Is this going to be another Hancock Tower thing where the facade, or parts of it, starts popping off and crashing down onto the unsuspecting passers-by. I imagine if the glue is strong enough to maintain the bond, it will crack the stone; if the glue isn't strong enough, then the veneer is going to just peel away in a few years. Both unenviable situations for the sidewalk and its inhabitants.
Whats' the Temperature delta in NYC - 110 degrees over the year?
Are my fears sensible or am I overreacting? Thanks.
Article is on New York magazine website.
Practicality is measured by cost, not health and safety. Siza should have rejected the changes and quit if not corrected.
Stone veneer on honeycomb substrate has been around for a while, now. Check with the manufacturer. Conservative rule of thumb: if the technology is newer than the amount of time they warranty it, you may want to reconsider.
There are so many cladding options available these days that will outperform what is described here. Sintered stone is all the rage now. From fancy fiber cement boards to phenolic. So many options. I personally shy away from honeycomb aluminum (strongback!) products. They were all the rage over a decade ago. There is no need for them really.
This is an issue of an Architect pushing a very limited palette on a budget conscious contractor who is responding with their own limited choices.
Well if it's something that's been done before on a relatively large scale, I'm not as concerned. And a honeycomb substrate would make it less terrifying.
I read that part of the article and imagined a solid aluminum sheet with stone stuck onto the face with glue. It seemed like they were inventing it for this project. I had images of jagged hunks of limestone popping off the 30th floor and going down to street level and getting embedded into the thing that holds someone's college education.
Thanks.