Hello all, first post on this forum. I'm facing a tough predicament with my career, looking for advice from people who have spent time in architecture and those who have perhaps left for "greener pastures".
Back story, I worked about a year and a half for a firm in my mid-sized Southern US city before layoffs in 2011. I soon after ended up doing civil/structural design work for a large engineering firm here in town for the next 5 years before layoffs in May of 2017 (oil and gas). I was able to return to my old firm immediately thank goodness, and am still working here today. Since my return, I have passed the ARE and received my license.
Here's the predicament. The large engineering firm had a complete restructuring, business is booming, and the department manager wants to make me an offer to go back. The pay in that field is about 70% higher than what I make now, with room to grow. It's honestly the reason I stayed so long. I have three young children and a mortgage after all. The work isnt as exciting as architecture CAN be, but my current position I've only worked on a fast food restaurant franchisee. Prototype design with a client employed CM. I have literally zero real world project experience in schematic design, cost estimation, contract administration etc. It doesn't appear that will change anytime soon without changing firms. The issue I'm having is I feel like if I leave the profession now, even though I have no license, it will be a pretty permanent decision. The other position, though having it's own challenges and level of difficulty, does not require a licensed professional. Continuing in architecture probably won't pigeon hole me as much down the road as this position would for future job potential.
That said, what would you do? I liked both office environments and don't mind either work, though neither are super exciting. Engineering firm pays overtime, arhitecutre doesn't. As of right now, I'm miles away from ever striking out on my own , so stepping away from architecture for another 5+ years may make it impossible to land a job in the field again. I'd be over credentialed and under experienced.
Sorry if I kind of rambled, just looking for some honest opinions. Thanks!
geezertect
Oct 25, 18 4:40 pm
............even though I have no license.........
You said earlier that you do have a license. Is this a typo?
Anyway, as to the bigger question, the stock market is down, and housing sales and car sales are down nationally. Those are often harbingers of economic recessions. Architecture is not something you want to be doing when the economy goes in the shitter. You probably already know that. With three kids and a mortgage, you will be taking a massive cut in pay to get back into architecture at a potentially dangerous time. Is that a risk you want to expose the kiddies and spouse to? Particularly for an architecture job that may be no more stimulating that the oil and gas gig. What does the spouse think? Are there firms in town that would make the pay cut worth it for the "excitement"? What if you got laid off from the new architecture job and the oil and gas job was no longer available? Do you have a way of riding out the downturn? Personally, I wouldn't take a massive cut in pay for the unappreciated drudgery of architecture, but that's just me. Not an easy decision, I realize.
Architechnically
Oct 25, 18 4:57 pm
Thanks for the reply. Yes it was a typo, I do have my license.
Architechnically
Oct 25, 18 5:04 pm
I already took the paycut when returning to architecture. We have a good bit saved up from when I was working the engineering gig. It's more of a question on returning or staying in the lower paying architecture job. We do fine, both have good jobs, but who wouldn't want to do better right?
My wife is a graphic designer, with a great position at her office. She's of the mindset that unless her pay makes it hard to make ends meet, she would rather love her work than make more money. She questions why I worked so hard to get a license in the last year if I'm just going to leave. She doesn't have an opinion one way or the other really since it's my job not hers haha.
There are a number of firms that do interesting work where I live, but I would probably be over qualified and under experienced to land a job right this second that pays the same as my current position. Only way I could land a more "exciting" job would be to stick it out here for a couple more years and gain more experience.
Almosthip7
Oct 25, 18 5:17 pm
What makes you happy? Figure that out....and do that.
Architechnically
Oct 25, 18 5:37 pm
I've never defined my happiness through my work. A bad work environment could make me unhappy for sure, but I find happiness through hobbies, family, etc. The most fun I ever had at a job was a custom furniture shop where I picked up some woodworking skills. Based on my friend who has pursued that path for many years since graduating together, it's not going to support a family of 5.
sameolddoctor
Oct 25, 18 5:41 pm
Dude, 70% more, and the work is pretty much equally boring at both places. Of course you need to jump ship and go for the 70% more dough. If your job at the architecture place was more interesting its one thing, but for fast food architecture?
( o Y o )
Oct 25, 18 10:27 pm
Tough predicament?
You got the choice of two jobs. Wake the fuck up and stop being such a whiny bitch.
randomised
Oct 26, 18 2:45 am
My question would be: How can anyone work in oil&gas while having three kids? Never heard of climate change?
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 7:58 am
MAGA!
Almosthip7
Oct 26, 18 10:45 am
randomised,
I suppose you rode your unicorn to work while preparing drawings on your stone tablet?
randomised
Oct 26, 18 10:56 am
I rode my refurbished bicycle to the station where I got into a train that was powered by sustainable energy purchased from wind farms actually, and I don't make that many drawings any more these days.
Architechnically
Oct 26, 18 12:44 pm
I thought this comment was a joke until I realized it was the same person presumably questioning my morality for entertaining the engineering firm position. Now I'm not sure if you're incredibly sarcastic or unrealistically out of touch.
Either way, I got a good laugh. Thanks.
LITS4FormZ
Oct 26, 18 1:07 pm
Most of my work is in the "industrial" world and I've seen the same shitty responses from former classmates who went on to work in design sweatshops with zero work-life balance toiling away for absolute shit pay.
Take the position in O&G, you should know that it goes through it's cycles as well and without a bit of diversity in the industrial arena you could be in for another layoff in the next 5 years. Don't be afraid to parlay that experience into other industrial markets like food and beverage, waste water and aviation which are a bit more stable. You'd also be surprised how similar O&G projects can be to distilleries, which are popping up everywhere these days.
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 1:32 pm
I was super excited at the chance to work on a nuclear facility some years ago. Had the security clearance and everything ready but the project disappear, never returned to the table.
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 1:49 pm
^citations required
sameolddoctor
Oct 26, 18 2:56 pm
randomised, and the phone/computer you are typing this on has parts made by a slave labor factory in china, and with some of the metals mined by underage kids, and after you are done with the machine, it will probably end up in some "E-waste" dump poisoning local water supplies.
Non Sequitur
Oct 26, 18 3:36 pm
Ricky, jesus made everything this way. nothing is 10k+ years old you cook!
randomised
Oct 27, 18 2:39 am
sameold, sure it might. But your alternative is? Do nothing to change the situation and only make it worse because who gives a fuck, right?
randomised
Oct 27, 18 10:48 am
Rick, I'm not demonizing anyone, but we as human beings can choose where to work, what to buy, how to live. And that all together has an impact on the planet as a whole.
randomised
Oct 27, 18 12:43 pm
But Rick, if I wasn't using a computer I couldn't lecture you.
Architechnically
Oct 26, 18 5:30 am
Thanks for your valuable input. You must be a joy to be around.
randomised
Oct 26, 18 7:16 am
My pleasure!
archinine
Oct 26, 18 7:55 am
++ doc and geezer.
You’re not missing out on anything at some other firm. Take the money and enjoy your life and ability to financially support your family.
thatsthat
Oct 26, 18 9:12 am
Jump ship and enjoy the extra cash.
I have literally zero real world project experience in schematic design, cost estimation, contract administration etc. It doesn't appear that will change anytime soon without changing firms.
Have you looked at other firms? Just making the jump to a new firm could translate into a better role with an opportunity for more holistic experience and better pay. This would keep you in the field, but get you closer to the experience you're looking for and more money. Probably not as much as you'd get at the oil&gas place, but more than you'd have staying where you are.
Architechnically
Oct 26, 18 9:30 am
I have looked into other firms. Even took an interview at a mid size company that seemed promising. Call back wanted me to apply for a program management position that would have required lots of travel, which I'm just not in a place to do right now with young family, especially for what was probably maybe a 10% pay bump.
The offer to go back to the engineering firm came as a bit of a surprise. Without it, I was focused on doing good work here and switching firms as soon as the right opportunity was there. I just feel that because I'm familiar with the company and didn't mind the work, the higher pay may just be impossible to pass up. Was wondering if anyone else had passed up better paying career changes to "be an architect" and what their perspective was.
Architechnically
Oct 26, 18 9:29 am
Edit: replied above.
thisisnotmyname
Oct 26, 18 1:38 pm
I've been oil&gas adjacent my entire life. It's so cyclical, it's not even funny. During every boom I've seen, the situation is always claimed to be "different this time" with "long-term higher oil & gas prices" for some cockamamie reason. Then the bust happens.
Take the good money while its being offered, but just know its temporary. Save some (or a lot) of the money from your higher salary.
Architechnically
Oct 26, 18 1:55 pm
Agreed. Made it 5 years last time, layoffs happen as the industry ebbs and flows. I was thinking I could save all the difference of the higher salary and just budget as we do now. I'd like to get into real estate investing, could build up the down payment for those first couple of properties.
geezertect
Oct 26, 18 8:23 pm
^ Now you're talking!
AlinaF
Oct 26, 18 2:08 pm
OP just curious, what role/position in the oil and gas do you have that pays 70% more than an architectural role? What kind of skills are required for that position?
Architechnically
Oct 26, 18 3:10 pm
It's a designer/workshare coordinator position in the civil and structural engineering department. Clients are all petrochem. Projects that require lots of 3D modeling across a number of disciplines with fast-track construction schedules. Years ago people would have gotten in as drafters, but the "designer" position has morphed into a hybrid of sorts. I would be tasked with managing the work of myself and others to complete a project and meet set deadlines, as well as a kind of BIM manager for each project (Smartplant 3D).
Rusty!
Oct 26, 18 3:23 pm
Southern architecture is by all accounts (design and technical) crappiest market region in the US. So you are probably not missing out on much by leaving the "design" side.
Weirder part is that you pigeonholed yourself to literally 2 positions in the entire industry. That one pays 70% more only tells me that your value is pretty low on the design side.
Architechnically
Oct 26, 18 3:30 pm
I agree that Southern cities aren't the biggest market for more interesting architecture work. But as an unlicensed professional my salary was 55k. Granted I will be talking to my boss about a raise now that I've just been licensed if I don't end up leaving altogether. The other work I was making $40 an hour before I left, with paid OT. Senior guys making as much as $65 an hour. In my area and experience level, I'm paid about right for architecture, it really is just that much less unfortunately.
Rusty!
Oct 26, 18 3:41 pm
Sounds to me like both positions are underpaid, but then it could be regional cost of living factor. I'm in a NYC bubble and both of these numbers look awful.
Architechnically
Oct 26, 18 3:49 pm
Haha, oh I bet that would get me nothing in NYC. But AIA calculator shows it's right on the average. Now, perhaps you could argue if I was exceptional I would be making more than the average. I would agree with that assessment, and have no qualms with admitting I'd give my skill set and eye for design about a B+.
Rusty!
Oct 26, 18 3:56 pm
I don't know how old you are, but certain progressions in architecture just take a long ass time. Genuine interest in all aspects of this profession and cumulative hands on experience will get you far. Enthusiasm masks inexperience well.
geezertect
Oct 27, 18 7:50 am
Enthusiasm also masks the harsh realities until somewhere around 35, when the thrill of young love inevitably fades. I'm a cynic: go for the bucks. There's nothing romantic and noble about being poor or worse yet, unemployed.
Miles Jaffe
Oct 27, 18 9:53 am
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what every cutthroat developer, politician, arms merchant, investment banker, lawyer, and drug dealer says. The choices you make have consequences far beyond yourself.
Hello all, first post on this forum. I'm facing a tough predicament with my career, looking for advice from people who have spent time in architecture and those who have perhaps left for "greener pastures".
Back story, I worked about a year and a half for a firm in my mid-sized Southern US city before layoffs in 2011. I soon after ended up doing civil/structural design work for a large engineering firm here in town for the next 5 years before layoffs in May of 2017 (oil and gas). I was able to return to my old firm immediately thank goodness, and am still working here today. Since my return, I have passed the ARE and received my license.
Here's the predicament. The large engineering firm had a complete restructuring, business is booming, and the department manager wants to make me an offer to go back. The pay in that field is about 70% higher than what I make now, with room to grow. It's honestly the reason I stayed so long. I have three young children and a mortgage after all. The work isnt as exciting as architecture CAN be, but my current position I've only worked on a fast food restaurant franchisee. Prototype design with a client employed CM. I have literally zero real world project experience in schematic design, cost estimation, contract administration etc. It doesn't appear that will change anytime soon without changing firms. The issue I'm having is I feel like if I leave the profession now, even though I have no license, it will be a pretty permanent decision. The other position, though having it's own challenges and level of difficulty, does not require a licensed professional. Continuing in architecture probably won't pigeon hole me as much down the road as this position would for future job potential.
That said, what would you do? I liked both office environments and don't mind either work, though neither are super exciting. Engineering firm pays overtime, arhitecutre doesn't. As of right now, I'm miles away from ever striking out on my own , so stepping away from architecture for another 5+ years may make it impossible to land a job in the field again. I'd be over credentialed and under experienced.
Sorry if I kind of rambled, just looking for some honest opinions. Thanks!
............even though I have no license.........
You said earlier that you do have a license. Is this a typo?
Anyway, as to the bigger question, the stock market is down, and housing sales and car sales are down nationally. Those are often harbingers of economic recessions. Architecture is not something you want to be doing when the economy goes in the shitter. You probably already know that. With three kids and a mortgage, you will be taking a massive cut in pay to get back into architecture at a potentially dangerous time. Is that a risk you want to expose the kiddies and spouse to? Particularly for an architecture job that may be no more stimulating that the oil and gas gig. What does the spouse think? Are there firms in town that would make the pay cut worth it for the "excitement"? What if you got laid off from the new architecture job and the oil and gas job was no longer available? Do you have a way of riding out the downturn? Personally, I wouldn't take a massive cut in pay for the unappreciated drudgery of architecture, but that's just me. Not an easy decision, I realize.
Thanks for the reply. Yes it was a typo, I do have my license.
I already took the paycut when returning to architecture. We have a good bit saved up from when I was working the engineering gig. It's more of a question on returning or staying in the lower paying architecture job. We do fine, both have good jobs, but who wouldn't want to do better right?
My wife is a graphic designer, with a great position at her office. She's of the mindset that unless her pay makes it hard to make ends meet, she would rather love her work than make more money. She questions why I worked so hard to get a license in the last year if I'm just going to leave. She doesn't have an opinion one way or the other really since it's my job not hers haha.
There are a number of firms that do interesting work where I live, but I would probably be over qualified and under experienced to land a job right this second that pays the same as my current position. Only way I could land a more "exciting" job would be to stick it out here for a couple more years and gain more experience.
What makes you happy? Figure that out....and do that.
I've never defined my happiness through my work. A bad work environment could make me unhappy for sure, but I find happiness through hobbies, family, etc. The most fun I ever had at a job was a custom furniture shop where I picked up some woodworking skills. Based on my friend who has pursued that path for many years since graduating together, it's not going to support a family of 5.
Dude, 70% more, and the work is pretty much equally boring at both places. Of course you need to jump ship and go for the 70% more dough. If your job at the architecture place was more interesting its one thing, but for fast food architecture?
Tough predicament?
You got the choice of two jobs. Wake the fuck up and stop being such a whiny bitch.
My question would be: How can anyone work in oil&gas while having three kids? Never heard of climate change?
MAGA!
randomised,
I suppose you rode your unicorn to work while preparing drawings on your stone tablet?
I rode my refurbished bicycle to the station where I got into a train that was powered by sustainable energy purchased from wind farms actually, and I don't make that many drawings any more these days.
I thought this comment was a joke until I realized it was the same person presumably questioning my morality for entertaining the engineering firm position. Now I'm not sure if you're incredibly sarcastic or unrealistically out of touch.
Either way, I got a good laugh. Thanks.
Most of my work is in the "industrial" world and I've seen the same shitty responses from former classmates who went on to work in design sweatshops with zero work-life balance toiling away for absolute shit pay.
Take the position in O&G, you should know that it goes through it's cycles as well and without a bit of diversity in the industrial arena you could be in for another layoff in the next 5 years. Don't be afraid to parlay that experience into other industrial markets like food and beverage, waste water and aviation which are a bit more stable. You'd also be surprised how similar O&G projects can be to distilleries, which are popping up everywhere these days.
I was super excited at the chance to work on a nuclear facility some years ago. Had the security clearance and everything ready but the project disappear, never returned to the table.
^citations required
randomised, and the phone/computer you are typing this on has parts made by a slave labor factory in china, and with some of the metals mined by underage kids, and after you are done with the machine, it will probably end up in some "E-waste" dump poisoning local water supplies.
Ricky, jesus made everything this way. nothing is 10k+ years old you cook!
sameold, sure it might. But your alternative is? Do nothing to change the situation and only make it worse because who gives a fuck, right?
Rick, I'm not demonizing anyone, but we as human beings can choose where to work, what to buy, how to live. And that all together has an impact on the planet as a whole.
But Rick, if I wasn't using a computer I couldn't lecture you.
Thanks for your valuable input. You must be a joy to be around.
My pleasure!
++ doc and geezer.
You’re not missing out on anything at some other firm. Take the money and enjoy your life and ability to financially support your family.
Jump ship and enjoy the extra cash.
I have literally zero real world project experience in schematic design, cost estimation, contract administration etc. It doesn't appear that will change anytime soon without changing firms.
Have you looked at other firms? Just making the jump to a new firm could translate into a better role with an opportunity for more holistic experience and better pay. This would keep you in the field, but get you closer to the experience you're looking for and more money. Probably not as much as you'd get at the oil&gas place, but more than you'd have staying where you are.
I have looked into other firms. Even took an interview at a mid size company that seemed promising. Call back wanted me to apply for a program management position that would have required lots of travel, which I'm just not in a place to do right now with young family, especially for what was probably maybe a 10% pay bump. The offer to go back to the engineering firm came as a bit of a surprise. Without it, I was focused on doing good work here and switching firms as soon as the right opportunity was there. I just feel that because I'm familiar with the company and didn't mind the work, the higher pay may just be impossible to pass up. Was wondering if anyone else had passed up better paying career changes to "be an architect" and what their perspective was.
Edit: replied above.
I've been oil&gas adjacent my entire life. It's so cyclical, it's not even funny. During every boom I've seen, the situation is always claimed to be "different this time" with "long-term higher oil & gas prices" for some cockamamie reason. Then the bust happens.
Take the good money while its being offered, but just know its temporary. Save some (or a lot) of the money from your higher salary.
Agreed. Made it 5 years last time, layoffs happen as the industry ebbs and flows. I was thinking I could save all the difference of the higher salary and just budget as we do now. I'd like to get into real estate investing, could build up the down payment for those first couple of properties.
^ Now you're talking!
OP just curious, what role/position in the oil and gas do you have that pays 70% more than an architectural role? What kind of skills are required for that position?
It's a designer/workshare coordinator position in the civil and structural engineering department. Clients are all petrochem. Projects that require lots of 3D modeling across a number of disciplines with fast-track construction schedules. Years ago people would have gotten in as drafters, but the "designer" position has morphed into a hybrid of sorts. I would be tasked with managing the work of myself and others to complete a project and meet set deadlines, as well as a kind of BIM manager for each project (Smartplant 3D).
Southern architecture is by all accounts (design and technical) crappiest market region in the US. So you are probably not missing out on much by leaving the "design" side.
Weirder part is that you pigeonholed yourself to literally 2 positions in the entire industry. That one pays 70% more only tells me that your value is pretty low on the design side.
I agree that Southern cities aren't the biggest market for more interesting architecture work. But as an unlicensed professional my salary was 55k. Granted I will be talking to my boss about a raise now that I've just been licensed if I don't end up leaving altogether. The other work I was making $40 an hour before I left, with paid OT. Senior guys making as much as $65 an hour. In my area and experience level, I'm paid about right for architecture, it really is just that much less unfortunately.
Sounds to me like both positions are underpaid, but then it could be regional cost of living factor. I'm in a NYC bubble and both of these numbers look awful.
Haha, oh I bet that would get me nothing in NYC. But AIA calculator shows it's right on the average. Now, perhaps you could argue if I was exceptional I would be making more than the average. I would agree with that assessment, and have no qualms with admitting I'd give my skill set and eye for design about a B+.
I don't know how old you are, but certain progressions in architecture just take a long ass time. Genuine interest in all aspects of this profession and cumulative hands on experience will get you far. Enthusiasm masks inexperience well.
Enthusiasm also masks the harsh realities until somewhere around 35, when the thrill of young love inevitably fades. I'm a cynic: go for the bucks. There's nothing romantic and noble about being poor or worse yet, unemployed.
I'm pretty sure that's exactly what every cutthroat developer, politician, arms merchant, investment banker, lawyer, and drug dealer says. The choices you make have consequences far beyond yourself.