I'm currently applying to colleges with an interest in becoming an architect but am kind of discouraged by some of the threads I've seen here. So, I'm hoping to know
>how hard it is to get a solid architect position (financial, etc.)
>whether getting a bachelors or masters degree is best
>if its a better idea to get a different degree and then sort of transfer into an architect career (if so, what degree?)
>what scholarships there might be (I am very not thrilled by student debt)
Thank you all for candor. Please don't hold back because I'm a young 'un. Any additional information that might be useful would be appreciated too.
donutsfordough
Oct 21, 18 1:05 am
If you're so easily discouraged by bad news then don't bother. Otherwise take the gamble and don't come back here in ten years looking for validation on whether to switch into architecture. Same response now, same then.
What is it with young people today looking for the most assured way to easy success? Architecture is not that. There's no formula you can just apply to your life and make it work. A bit of luck and some financial backing helps but people who want it make it work.
curtkram
Oct 21, 18 10:29 am
the economy is booming at the moment, so its not hard for people starting out to find a good position. the profession is cyclical with the economy; i would not recommend graduating during a recession.
get a degree that can get you a license. if you do bachelor's, verify it's the B.Arch that can get you a license.
i would think it would be a little easier to start with architecture if that's what you're going in to. switching will add at least a year.
fill out your fafsa for financial aid.
M HM Hellooo
Oct 21, 18 5:18 pm
I am also curious about what sort of work environment architects tend to have. Are clients more often commercial or private? How companionable are your coworkers? Is there much sexism? Do you usually have plenty of time to sleep, exercise, etc.? Do you have days off? Thank you for your comments.
geezertect
Oct 21, 18 9:31 pm
The work environment for most is about the same as for any typical white collar office job. Most firms are not starchitect hot houses. Biggest difference is the disconnect between what you expect architecture to be and what it is in the real world. The schools do a very poor job of preparing students for the real world of practice. Maybe they are too afraid of scaring off the next generation of sacrificial lambs.
placebeyondthesplines_
Oct 21, 18 7:13 pm
for any newcomers to archinect, do not take seriously anything RickB-Astoria has to say. he is not an architect, and has absolutely no relevant professional or academic credentials. despite having been banned several times in the past for his conduct on this forum, he continues to regularly post long-winded faux-knowledgeable ramblings on a variety of topics, mostly centered on the professional practice of architecture — about which he knows absolutely nothing).
for more examples, search the forum “Balkins” and you’ll quickly see what I mean.
Non Sequitur
Oct 21, 18 11:01 pm
^responds with a thousands words. Classic Balkins
placebeyondthesplines_
Oct 22, 18 12:13 am
never change, Balkins. this place wouldn’t be the same without your tedious and uninformed spewings. I predict you’ll post another bunch of your bullshit here shortly.
M HM Hellooo
Oct 21, 18 10:17 pm
Thank you all very much. I wonder if this thread can work as a somewhat representation of what sorts of personalities I might encounter professionally?
b3tadine[sutures]
Oct 21, 18 11:27 pm
no.
mightyaa
Oct 22, 18 10:53 am
no... someone like Rick won't be in a architecture firm since he lacks the credentials, education, and background. Those in the firm will have had similar experiences as yourself, therefore a lot more in common.
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 18 4:42 pm
but you are not any of those Ricky. That's Mighty's point.
null pointer
Oct 22, 18 5:11 pm
I wouldn't hire you as my coffee bitch, balkins. I feel like you'd try to lecture me on mild, medium and dark roast every time I told you to get me a fucking cup, all while insisting you don't drink coffee unless it comes from ghana and it's certified fair trade.
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 18 5:23 pm
And then he’d comtinue on a coffee growers forum explaining to the Ghana fair trade growers how he’d grow better coffee in Oregon. Ricky > FLW apparently.
null pointer
Oct 22, 18 5:30 pm
But he's never grown coffee in Oregon (or had coffee in the past 10 years because.. you know... Ghana fair trade only), so he's basing his lectures on some obscure government handbook from 1793.
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 18 5:36 pm
Null, I just burst out on that one. Screw those other folks on the bus, they don’t know the comedic gold they are missing out on.
Everyday Architect
Oct 22, 18 5:50 pm
just getting warmed up here...
mightyaa
Oct 22, 18 6:32 pm
Rick, you are digging in.. He asked if he'd run across these types of personalities working professionally; YOU WOULDN'T BE SOMEONE HE'D EVER RUN ACROSS PROFESSIONALLY BECAUSE YOU LACK THE QUALIFICATIONS TO BE HIRED BY THE MAJORITY OF ARCHITECTURE FIRMS. There would be exceptions like owner's reps I've met who "wanted to be an architect" before they start telling me, someone who is a practicing architect, what architects do and why....
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 18 7:12 pm
Eccentric is not the right word.
mightyaa
Oct 22, 18 7:13 pm
"It isn't the education or any of that shit."; Yes, it is. You do not hold an accredited degree, have not completed the internship, and flat out are not eligible to take the architectural exam. There are even ways to take some State exams without the accredited degree, but you haven't worked under a licensed architect for the required period of time to accumulate the required minimum hours... So yes, you are years and years away from ever being a licensed architect and should stop giving advice to those who are or are seeking advice from those of us who did what it took to become licensed.
mightyaa
Oct 22, 18 8:06 pm
Yes.. the title "architect's career actual difficult of becoming being an architect" is flat out something you aren't able to answer based on your own experiences, so you should not have responded to or given advice about. If they asked "how tough is it to find work without a architectural license designing buildings and certifications that might be useful", by all means... but that wasn't the topic and you pulled crap out of your ass based on your own warped ideas of what it might be like rather than any sort of extensive experience or expertise on the subject matter. It severely derails ANY cohesive discussions when you do this Rick..
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 18 8:17 pm
Ricky, believing you actually have a career remotely resembling that of an architect is not the same as actually having one.
JBeaumont
Oct 22, 18 8:56 pm
You don't have any skills because you don't have any projects. You go round and round and round on this, but the fact is that you documented for financial aid and loan repayment purposes that you had virtually no income throughout most of that decade - so either you have real projects and clients and therefore committed multiple federal crimes by lying on financial aid and tax documents, or you had virtually no income and therefore have virtually no experience.
Non Sequitur
Oct 22, 18 9:14 pm
^more excuses. You're not convincing anyone
Everyday Architect
Oct 23, 18 12:29 am
I thought the featured comments were supposed to be an attempt to keep people focused on the original post ... not saying the comment featured for this thread isn't a good comment, but to feature it seems like the moderators are just looking for a dumpster fire rather than trying to keep people focused on the topic at hand.
shellarchitect
Oct 23, 18 2:20 pm
I love that Ricky assumes the average architect's work day is similar to a design studio and that the design of houses is similar to the design of anything else an architect might work on! I assume that a vast majority of architects have never done a single family residence.
thisisnotmyname
Oct 22, 18 2:46 pm
Make every effort you can to spend some time in two or more working architect's offices and observe what they do all day.
For education, the quickest and least expensive route in the USA would be a 5-year Bachelor of Architecture program. A public college in your home state will probably have the lowest tuition, but there are many variables that can potentially put a private or out-of-state program within your reach.
Architecture jobs are quite plentiful at the moment. Doing as many internships and summer positions in architect's offices while you are still in school will greatly improve your ability to get a good job upon graduation.
randomised
Oct 22, 18 3:50 pm
Don't be discouraged from what you read here, this place is no fair representation of the architecture field, this is just the internet.
bowling_ball
Oct 23, 18 12:13 am
Exactly.
M HM Hellooo
Oct 22, 18 6:34 pm
Awesome, thank you. Those last bits were most informative. I appreciate the straight forwardness.
archi_dude
Oct 23, 18 11:19 am
I wanted to chime in because what stands out in your post is the financial based questions. The student loan and pay prospect question make it seem as though you will not be getting much boost from your parents or much financial help. Architecture pays relatively well (about the same as teachers and government workers) and there are plenty of firms where you can work 40-45 hrs a week for that relatively good salary, however keep in mind the more realistic hours and better pay the more boring the work. So here’s the scenario, you work WAY more in college than most other majors (keyword “more” not harder because there is definitely merit to what Rick said above about architecture students reworking ideas again and again for no reason for art sake) yet when you graduate you make about as much as Frat guys who spent their entire college days day drinking and earning a Poli-sci or communications degree. You can make a decent salary but you’ll be living really frugally and working on pretty boring work with minimal vacation, benefits and ownership of your tasks (7 years in and a license and I still wasn’t allowed to decide where to lay out control joints in sidewalk or the design is taken care of in the marketing department of the client’s business and you regurgitate it into construction documents). The reality is that the services clients want us for isn’t “Architecture!” It’s drafting plans to get permits. It’s a very frugal choice with pretty bland and limited career options.
It can be a really cool hobby, but don’t expect to get much out of it as a career.
whistler
Oct 23, 18 2:08 pm
I had one of the most satisfying experiences of my career at a recent building opening ( First nations learning centre / school ) where a bunch of students / elders / councillors who got up and discussed what the school meant to them personally and to their community and were breaking down in tears describing the significance to them.
The group then introduced me personally and others who were part of the team who contributed to the project, then what wasn't expected was the several hundred people applaud us for our efforts .....that was f___ing cool and pretty overwhelming for me too.
So yeah, the profession is hard, takes a lot of perseverance, integrity and stubbornness but when you do a decent job and are rewarded with that level of appreciation it's all good!
Non Sequitur
Oct 23, 18 2:58 pm
Nice story. Makes for great reading on my 4th uber ride of the day.
M HM Hellooo
Oct 23, 18 6:30 pm
Then, just for consideration, what careers would you recommend as an alternative to being an architect that fits with the same interests (living/working spaces, design, etc.)?
mightyaa
Oct 23, 18 7:35 pm
A alternate would be to get in on the developer side. Basically, a site acquisition and development manager. They are the guys and gals who set the design tone, the parameters, the goals, and hire the design team and make lots of spreadsheets. Then they get to critique the design, pick materials, etc. Essentially all the fun stuff... but they have masters too who expect the project they are managing to have good returns, high lease rates, etc. I've also noticed a lack in 'grey hair' folks, so I'm guessing it is a pretty harsh employee attrition rate.
Guessing the degree would be commercial real estate with a minor in project management.
M HM Hellooo
Oct 24, 18 10:45 pm
Thank you! That sounds pretty neat. I'll definitely look into the position.
Hello people,
I'm currently applying to colleges with an interest in becoming an architect but am kind of discouraged by some of the threads I've seen here. So, I'm hoping to know
>how hard it is to get a solid architect position (financial, etc.)
>whether getting a bachelors or masters degree is best
>if its a better idea to get a different degree and then sort of transfer into an architect career (if so, what degree?)
>what scholarships there might be (I am very not thrilled by student debt)
Thank you all for candor. Please don't hold back because I'm a young 'un. Any additional information that might be useful would be appreciated too.
If you're so easily discouraged by bad news then don't bother. Otherwise take the gamble and don't come back here in ten years looking for validation on whether to switch into architecture. Same response now, same then.
What is it with young people today looking for the most assured way to easy success? Architecture is not that. There's no formula you can just apply to your life and make it work. A bit of luck and some financial backing helps but people who want it make it work.
the economy is booming at the moment, so its not hard for people starting out to find a good position. the profession is cyclical with the economy; i would not recommend graduating during a recession.
get a degree that can get you a license. if you do bachelor's, verify it's the B.Arch that can get you a license.
i would think it would be a little easier to start with architecture if that's what you're going in to. switching will add at least a year.
fill out your fafsa for financial aid.
I am also curious about what sort of work environment architects tend to have. Are clients more often commercial or private? How companionable are your coworkers? Is there much sexism? Do you usually have plenty of time to sleep, exercise, etc.? Do you have days off? Thank you for your comments.
The work environment for most is about the same as for any typical white collar office job. Most firms are not starchitect hot houses. Biggest difference is the disconnect between what you expect architecture to be and what it is in the real world. The schools do a very poor job of preparing students for the real world of practice. Maybe they are too afraid of scaring off the next generation of sacrificial lambs.
for any newcomers to archinect, do not take seriously anything RickB-Astoria has to say. he is not an architect, and has absolutely no relevant professional or academic credentials. despite having been banned several times in the past for his conduct on this forum, he continues to regularly post long-winded faux-knowledgeable ramblings on a variety of topics, mostly centered on the professional practice of architecture — about which he knows absolutely nothing).
for more examples, search the forum “Balkins” and you’ll quickly see what I mean.
^responds with a thousands words. Classic Balkins
never change, Balkins. this place wouldn’t be the same without your tedious and uninformed spewings. I predict you’ll post another bunch of your bullshit here shortly.
Thank you all very much. I wonder if this thread can work as a somewhat representation of what sorts of personalities I might encounter professionally?
no.
no... someone like Rick won't be in a architecture firm since he lacks the credentials, education, and background. Those in the firm will have had similar experiences as yourself, therefore a lot more in common.
but you are not any of those Ricky. That's Mighty's point.
I wouldn't hire you as my coffee bitch, balkins. I feel like you'd try to lecture me on mild, medium and dark roast every time I told you to get me a fucking cup, all while insisting you don't drink coffee unless it comes from ghana and it's certified fair trade.
And then he’d comtinue on a coffee growers forum explaining to the Ghana fair trade growers how he’d grow better coffee in Oregon. Ricky > FLW apparently.
But he's never grown coffee in Oregon (or had coffee in the past 10 years because.. you know... Ghana fair trade only), so he's basing his lectures on some obscure government handbook from 1793.
Null, I just burst out on that one. Screw those other folks on the bus, they don’t know the comedic gold they are missing out on.
just getting warmed up here...
Rick, you are digging in.. He asked if he'd run across these types of personalities working professionally; YOU WOULDN'T BE SOMEONE HE'D EVER RUN ACROSS PROFESSIONALLY BECAUSE YOU LACK THE QUALIFICATIONS TO BE HIRED BY THE MAJORITY OF ARCHITECTURE FIRMS. There would be exceptions like owner's reps I've met who "wanted to be an architect" before they start telling me, someone who is a practicing architect, what architects do and why....
Eccentric is not the right word.
"It isn't the education or any of that shit."; Yes, it is. You do not hold an accredited degree, have not completed the internship, and flat out are not eligible to take the architectural exam. There are even ways to take some State exams without the accredited degree, but you haven't worked under a licensed architect for the required period of time to accumulate the required minimum hours... So yes, you are years and years away from ever being a licensed architect and should stop giving advice to those who are or are seeking advice from those of us who did what it took to become licensed.
Yes.. the title "architect's career actual difficult of becoming being an architect" is flat out something you aren't able to answer based on your own experiences, so you should not have responded to or given advice about. If they asked "how tough is it to find work without a architectural license designing buildings and certifications that might be useful", by all means... but that wasn't the topic and you pulled crap out of your ass based on your own warped ideas of what it might be like rather than any sort of extensive experience or expertise on the subject matter. It severely derails ANY cohesive discussions when you do this Rick..
Ricky, believing you actually have a career remotely resembling that of an architect is not the same as actually having one.
You don't have any skills because you don't have any projects. You go round and round and round on this, but the fact is that you documented for financial aid and loan repayment purposes that you had virtually no income throughout most of that decade - so either you have real projects and clients and therefore committed multiple federal crimes by lying on financial aid and tax documents, or you had virtually no income and therefore have virtually no experience.
^more excuses. You're not convincing anyone
I thought the featured comments were supposed to be an attempt to keep people focused on the original post ... not saying the comment featured for this thread isn't a good comment, but to feature it seems like the moderators are just looking for a dumpster fire rather than trying to keep people focused on the topic at hand.
I love that Ricky assumes the average architect's work day is similar to a design studio and that the design of houses is similar to the design of anything else an architect might work on! I assume that a vast majority of architects have never done a single family residence.
Make every effort you can to spend some time in two or more working architect's offices and observe what they do all day.
For education, the quickest and least expensive route in the USA would be a 5-year Bachelor of Architecture program. A public college in your home state will probably have the lowest tuition, but there are many variables that can potentially put a private or out-of-state program within your reach.
Architecture jobs are quite plentiful at the moment. Doing as many internships and summer positions in architect's offices while you are still in school will greatly improve your ability to get a good job upon graduation.
Don't be discouraged from what you read here, this place is no fair representation of the architecture field, this is just the internet.
Exactly.
Awesome, thank you. Those last bits were most informative. I appreciate the straight forwardness.
I wanted to chime in because what stands out in your post is the financial based questions. The student loan and pay prospect question make it seem as though you will not be getting much boost from your parents or much financial help. Architecture pays relatively well (about the same as teachers and government workers) and there are plenty of firms where you can work 40-45 hrs a week for that relatively good salary, however keep in mind the more realistic hours and better pay the more boring the work. So here’s the scenario, you work WAY more in college than most other majors (keyword “more” not harder because there is definitely merit to what Rick said above about architecture students reworking ideas again and again for no reason for art sake) yet when you graduate you make about as much as Frat guys who spent their entire college days day drinking and earning a Poli-sci or communications degree. You can make a decent salary but you’ll be living really frugally and working on pretty boring work with minimal vacation, benefits and ownership of your tasks (7 years in and a license and I still wasn’t allowed to decide where to lay out control joints in sidewalk or the design is taken care of in the marketing department of the client’s business and you regurgitate it into construction documents). The reality is that the services clients want us for isn’t “Architecture!” It’s drafting plans to get permits. It’s a very frugal choice with pretty bland and limited career options.
It can be a really cool hobby, but don’t expect to get much out of it as a career.
I had one of the most satisfying experiences of my career at a recent building opening ( First nations learning centre / school ) where a bunch of students / elders / councillors who got up and discussed what the school meant to them personally and to their community and were breaking down in tears describing the significance to them.
The group then introduced me personally and others who were part of the team who contributed to the project, then what wasn't expected was the several hundred people applaud us for our efforts .....that was f___ing cool and pretty overwhelming for me too.
So yeah, the profession is hard, takes a lot of perseverance, integrity and stubbornness but when you do a decent job and are rewarded with that level of appreciation it's all good!
Nice story. Makes for great reading on my 4th uber ride of the day.
Then, just for consideration, what careers would you recommend as an alternative to being an architect that fits with the same interests (living/working spaces, design, etc.)?
A alternate would be to get in on the developer side. Basically, a site acquisition and development manager. They are the guys and gals who set the design tone, the parameters, the goals, and hire the design team and make lots of spreadsheets. Then they get to critique the design, pick materials, etc. Essentially all the fun stuff... but they have masters too who expect the project they are managing to have good returns, high lease rates, etc. I've also noticed a lack in 'grey hair' folks, so I'm guessing it is a pretty harsh employee attrition rate.
Guessing the degree would be commercial real estate with a minor in project management.
Thank you! That sounds pretty neat. I'll definitely look into the position.