I am currently tendering for a project that calls for a glass system 280' x 26' h.
The client has provided me a vertical detail (see attached pic). However, I am not familiar with this kind of system.
Would greatly appreciate the assistance.
Regards.
Non Sequitur
Aug 14, 18 4:54 pm
If you're not familiar with glass systems, why are you bidding on the project? What country is this for anyways?
It's a SSG sealed vision glass unit apparently held together to a w-section by the powers of baby jesus. Looks like a bad detail without much more information.
Rusty!
Aug 14, 18 5:04 pm
You can do custom curtainwalls that are made of steel instead of aluminum, but that is an expensive way to go about it. Plus aluminum extrusions are pretty flat. You need to do additional things to steel to make it work under this condition. Plus at 26 feet high will need bunch of horizontal mullions as well. This is a very expensive custom assembly.
Non Sequitur
Aug 14, 18 5:23 pm
Thank you captain obvious. I’m aware of how things go with other things. 8-)
SneakyPete
Aug 14, 18 6:43 pm
Schuco has a detail with a w-section shaped mullion. You're asking for a lot of liability custom creating an SSG system like that, regardless of the possibility.
mightyaa
Aug 14, 18 7:20 pm
26' high? Held in place with butt joint sealant and non's suggestion of baby jesus faith... no way. Run, or get some real help.
That is a fully engineered system. Talk to novum structures. They sort of specialize in that sort of large glazing engineering.
SneakyPete
Aug 14, 18 7:50 pm
Novum is a great company.
spacefragments
Aug 14, 18 8:08 pm
Talk to a facade consultant. Its my first to see a frameless glass panel adhesive mounted to a structural member. When the column moves, we all know what will happen.
But if I was tendering for this, I would include the following specs:
1. Laminated safety glass in PVB,
2. Structural steel brackets or spider fittings at every 3 meters; or whichever is more expensive
izboos
Aug 15, 18 4:45 am
Morning,
Thank you all for your responses so far.
The project is located in Trinidad, West Indies.
Even I had a lot of reservations on this kind of system the architect wishes to execute, especially when the building shifts. This is the first time I have seen glass being applied to a steel face.
The 26' is divided into ten (10) panels. As Non-Sequiter rightfully said, by the grace of jesus.
I will look at Novum and Schuco, and see what they offer.
I wish I could turn down this project, BUT....my manager seems to think otherwise (money talks, sh*t walks).
Non Sequitur
Aug 15, 18 8:26 am
fascinating. Perhaps you stand to make a tidy profit in change orders once they realize their initial design does not work without the baby jesus. See, the baby is the more powerful of the jesus adhesives so hopefully you don't carry the tired and older jesus in your bid.
izboos
Aug 15, 18 9:54 am
lol.
And thanks to @SneakyPete for Novum. I found something that miiiiight be able to work - Linear Supported Glazing - so I shall email them sometime today.
Rusty!
Aug 15, 18 10:23 am
Linear Supported Glazing is essentially "structural glazing". Glass floats off steel supports but does not touch it. Pilkington Planar has been very popular recently. But if architect wants a SSG with steel framing, you are barking up a wrong tree. There is nothing wrong with their detail at all. This baby jesus talk is silly. You have norton spacer with structural silicone. The only difference is steel versus aluminum. It just means a custom curtainwall instead of an off the shelf one. Here are more companies who do custom engineered curtainwalls: Permasteelisa, Beson, Enclos, Fabbrica.
Rusty!
Aug 15, 18 10:24 am
Benson, not Beson.
SneakyPete
Aug 15, 18 1:24 pm
Mightyaa suggested Novum, I just like them. :)
izboos
Aug 15, 18 1:44 pm
Cool
Rusty!
Aug 15, 18 10:52 am
Actually here is off the shelf solution. Steelbuilt by TGP. SSG with I beam as mullion is a stated option.
SneakyPete
Aug 15, 18 1:25 pm
TGP is also a great company, just don't assume their website it the most obvious one. ;)
izboos
Aug 15, 18 1:41 pm
I forwarded them an email
t a z
Aug 15, 18 2:20 pm
Toggle fixed IGUs will provide better thermal performance.
At 26' you are most likely looking at an aluminum extrusion w/ steel reinforcement.
Most off-the-shelf storefront systems will give you a member sizing vs. wind load if you want to get a ballpark sizing (even w/ steel reinf).
Novum: Kinda getting a slightly positive response.
Shuco: awaiting a response.
Permastellisa, Benson, Enclos, Fabbrica: not within the scope. Sadly, contractors in Trinidad don't like to pay for custom stuff.
senjohnblutarsky
Aug 16, 18 11:14 am
Call the architect and ask them whose details they designed around. Was there no product spec?
izboos
Aug 16, 18 1:24 pm
I tried to call the guy; no answer.
And nope, no product specs.
Rusty!
Aug 16, 18 4:24 pm
why did TGP reject you outright?
Everyday Architect
Aug 16, 18 7:59 pm
I don't see what the problem is (from your end). There is enough information in the detail to build it as drawn. What's your concern or issue? Is there an equivalent to the Spearin doctrine that applies to the West Indies?
The architect on the other hand ... they probably need some help. Have them start a thread and we can start quoting them numbers for our consulting fee.
everybody thinks they're a comedian, so in case the sarcasm isn't clear, don't build this. it doesn't work. this detail might be ok for SD level pricing, but even then its missing a fair bit
Good day,
I am currently tendering for a project that calls for a glass system 280' x 26' h.
The client has provided me a vertical detail (see attached pic). However, I am not familiar with this kind of system.
Would greatly appreciate the assistance.
Regards.
If you're not familiar with glass systems, why are you bidding on the project? What country is this for anyways?
It's a SSG sealed vision glass unit apparently held together to a w-section by the powers of baby jesus. Looks like a bad detail without much more information.
You can do custom curtainwalls that are made of steel instead of aluminum, but that is an expensive way to go about it. Plus aluminum extrusions are pretty flat. You need to do additional things to steel to make it work under this condition. Plus at 26 feet high will need bunch of horizontal mullions as well. This is a very expensive custom assembly.
Thank you captain obvious. I’m aware of how things go with other things. 8-)
Schuco has a detail with a w-section shaped mullion. You're asking for a lot of liability custom creating an SSG system like that, regardless of the possibility.
26' high? Held in place with butt joint sealant and non's suggestion of baby jesus faith... no way. Run, or get some real help.
That is a fully engineered system. Talk to novum structures. They sort of specialize in that sort of large glazing engineering.
Novum is a great company.
Talk to a facade consultant. Its my first to see a frameless glass panel adhesive mounted to a structural member. When the column moves, we all know what will happen.
But if I was tendering for this, I would include the following specs:
1. Laminated safety glass in PVB,
2. Structural steel brackets or spider fittings at every 3 meters; or whichever is more expensive
Morning,
Thank you all for your responses so far.
The project is located in Trinidad, West Indies.
Even I had a lot of reservations on this kind of system the architect wishes to execute, especially when the building shifts. This is the first time I have seen glass being applied to a steel face.
The 26' is divided into ten (10) panels. As Non-Sequiter rightfully said, by the grace of jesus.
I will look at Novum and Schuco, and see what they offer.
I wish I could turn down this project, BUT....my manager seems to think otherwise (money talks, sh*t walks).
fascinating. Perhaps you stand to make a tidy profit in change orders once they realize their initial design does not work without the baby jesus. See, the baby is the more powerful of the jesus adhesives so hopefully you don't carry the tired and older jesus in your bid.
lol.
And thanks to @SneakyPete for Novum. I found something that miiiiight be able to work - Linear Supported Glazing - so I shall email them sometime today.
Linear Supported Glazing is essentially "structural glazing". Glass floats off steel supports but does not touch it. Pilkington Planar has been very popular recently. But if architect wants a SSG with steel framing, you are barking up a wrong tree. There is nothing wrong with their detail at all. This baby jesus talk is silly. You have norton spacer with structural silicone. The only difference is steel versus aluminum. It just means a custom curtainwall instead of an off the shelf one. Here are more companies who do custom engineered curtainwalls: Permasteelisa, Beson, Enclos, Fabbrica.
Benson, not Beson.
Mightyaa suggested Novum, I just like them. :)
Cool
Actually here is off the shelf solution. Steelbuilt by TGP. SSG with I beam as mullion is a stated option.
TGP is also a great company, just don't assume their website it the most obvious one. ;)
I forwarded them an email
Toggle fixed IGUs will provide better thermal performance.
At 26' you are most likely looking at an aluminum extrusion w/ steel reinforcement.
Most off-the-shelf storefront systems will give you a member sizing vs. wind load if you want to get a ballpark sizing (even w/ steel reinf).
For example (also thermally broken): https://www.raico.de/en/Produc...
Morning,
To update:
TGP: rejected me outright.
Novum: Kinda getting a slightly positive response.
Shuco: awaiting a response.
Permastellisa, Benson, Enclos, Fabbrica: not within the scope. Sadly, contractors in Trinidad don't like to pay for custom stuff.
Call the architect and ask them whose details they designed around. Was there no product spec?
I tried to call the guy; no answer.
And nope, no product specs.
why did TGP reject you outright?
I don't see what the problem is (from your end). There is enough information in the detail to build it as drawn. What's your concern or issue? Is there an equivalent to the Spearin doctrine that applies to the West Indies?
The architect on the other hand ... they probably need some help. Have them start a thread and we can start quoting them numbers for our consulting fee.
I say it is half full.
everybody thinks they're a comedian, so in case the sarcasm isn't clear, don't build this. it doesn't work. this detail might be ok for SD level pricing, but even then its missing a fair bit
i agree totally.
This company also may be able to help you with this: https://www.crawfordtracey.com...
HI,.
Got a response from NOVUM; recommended the
Edge Clamped Glass Toggle (ECG-T) system
.