I was approached by a client wanting to do residential work. Multifamily stuff. My expertise is in commercial so I worked with another residential architect that wanted to team up. I didn't have a problem with it. We agreed to put his seal on the project because he was the residential expert. He didn't do any of the production. All of the cad files were created by me. Later the same client came back to me requesting more work. They wanted a copy of the same building. The other architect expressed that he wanted a much larger cut of the profit because it was his seal and his liability. I said ok well I could seal of that's more fair. The other guy got extremely offended and saying I can't do the work without him. I tried to keep things civil but he has now decided he wants to do this on his own and hire a draftsman to do his work. He told me to send him HIS Cad files. As far as I'm aware he has no right to demand the files correct? Ethically it was my client and he is trying to steal. Legally it is his name on the instruments of service however the CAD files are not his to keep. I have no contract with him and the way I see it is he is trying to reproduce my instruments of service without my consent or competition correct? He threatened to sue. Does he have any case at all or is it just a wild threat? I figured as long as I don't reproduce the last project I'm ok right?
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 8:04 am
Yes of course I would like to get out. This is a cluster for sure. However Ideally I would like to take the CAD files that I worked on and leave the situation. I dont see any reason for me to give him the files that I worked on so he can profit off of them without me being involved. He is convinced that because he was the sealholder that somehow he magically has ownership of the CAD files as well. We never had any agreement at all and we both got paid for our share. His reasoning for saying he will sue is that "I was working for him" and providing a service and we had an agreement that he would take ownership of the project. At no point did I ever agree to that and at no point did I ever agree to work FOR him. It was always established that we were a team and working together. I did my part and he did his. However now he is saying I was just a draftsman and he paid me for drafting services and now I am witholding the product after he paid me. The whole thing is nuts and I am starting to question the guys mental health. I aproached him with the job and if anything he was working for me but I would never aproach him and say that. Its so nuts.
Im not asking for legal advice at all. Im just wondering what you would do in this position.
Zbig
Apr 7, 18 8:31 am
I think he is misconstruing the relationship that you had for the previous project. However, it will depend on how the law interprets the ownership of the intellectual property.
Normally you own what you create. But you don't if you create it under contract to someone else. If you can prove that you created the drawings and he was hired as a supervision and peer review consultant, you might be clear because he would be under contract to you.
It will also depend on how your state jurisdiction defines the "seal." If I affix my personal seal to a set of documents that I prepare for my employer, do I own those documents? Probably not.
You are definitely in lawyer territory. You need to talk to an IP attorney.
geezertect
Apr 7, 18 8:32 am
Off the top of my head I think this other guy has the stronger case. It is his seal on the drawings, which implies he is the senior member of the "team", even though it started out as your client. Were you paid with separate checks? Who did the bulk of communication and paperwork with the client? Did either of you have a written agreement with the client? Sounds like you need to come up with an amicable (?) agreement. Don't litigate this thing. Not worth the fight.
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 8:49 am
I get where you are coming from here. From the outside it does apear as if I was "hired help". He did have the contract with the client since it was his seal. I was fine with that because he insisted. I didnt want the liability since residential is not my area. I never had a contract with him. My role was to create the DRAWINGS and at no point did we even verbally discuss ownership of the CAD files.
Personally this is the same as if the client had demanded my CAD files to reproduce my work with another architect. Everyone knows that a client cannot take my instruments of service and reproduce my work for another project even if he did pay me for this project. I dont understand how this could be different just because its another architect. The CAD files are my instruments of service and even if the court would see me as "hired help" my product is the PDF drawings. Not the CAD files.
This whole thing is just so frustrating. I cannot believe that there are people out there this dirty and this cuthroat.
wurdan freo
Apr 7, 18 11:02 am
If you were "hired help" I'm sure he violated all kinds of labor laws by paying you 1099. Might be some negotiating leverage there...Again no lawyer here... but if you were producing these files for him, they
wurdan freo
Apr 7, 18 11:02 am
they're not your instruments of service
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 8:53 am
Also contact with the client was very mutual. We both contacted the client equally. I may have even had more contact with the client than him.
geezertect
Apr 7, 18 9:22 am
I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that the best case you could argue is that you did the building as a joint venture and that the drawings are jointly owned by both of you, and selling them to be used again requires consent of both parties. If a court would look on you as an employee of his, you're toast.
I take it that the client wants to use you, rather than him, as the architect for the new work (is it alterations on the existing building, or does he want to build a clone of it on another site?). If he wouldn't be hired again by your client, then that gives you some negotiating leverage, since his getting a smaller percentage of the new fee is better than 100% of nothing.
I hope you realize that just because he stamped the drawings wouldn't necessarily relieve you of liability in the real world. When the shit hits the fan in court, it lands on everybody. By trying to side-step liability, you also relinquished control of your fate. You then made it worse by going into this without anything in writing. Like I say, cut a deal that both of you can live with, and chalk the experience up to continuing education.
It's frustrating that schools don't teach any of this real world shit. Just a bunch of theory that means nothing in the practical world. Good luck.
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 9:49 am
The client wants a clone of the building on another site. Also the client really does not care who stamps the drawings. He only cares about getting his building built. The client really likes me and has complained about the other guy a little but maybe he doesnt care. My plan was to work on the project with the other architect the same as last time and it would be easy money for both of us. I was completely willing to just work things out. He was the one that started saying I was just a draftsman and insulting me for no reason. I got greedy and wanted the entire fee. I have 10 years as a licensed archtiect. Im not "just a draftsman". Honestly if he gets word of the drama then he may even find another architect all together. I want to wash my hands of this project and situation but maybe my pride is keeping me from doing so. Its mind boggling how dirty this guy played and how he really does not mind completely burning bridges because of his greed. Business is pretty cut throat. Ive been spoiled I guess because I have built so many good relationships with clients, contractors and other architects and we always get along so well. This guy seems to want to cheat his way up IDK. He didnt even want to talk about it he just started demanding things. Thats why I am so spiteful I guess and really dont want to let him use me anyone. He sent me a letter saying that he does not authorize me to use his design for the upcoming project. The crazy thing is I never even told him I would do that. I told him you have a misunderstanding and the plan was to work on it with you. Your the one trying to use OUR design all for yourself. Its like he is setting this whole thing up to screw me over. Thats why i dont want to just hand over the CAD files. I dont even know what to tell the client honestly. I like the client a lot but this isnt worth it. I feel kinda bad he is affected by this.
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 9:51 am
And yes I am aware that just becasue i dont have a stamp on the drawing I am still liable. In my entire career Ive never been involved in litigation so Ive been kinda sheltered from that.
geezertect
Apr 7, 18 10:04 am
I've never been sued either. I've just seen it second hand. Doesn't look like fun. Only the lawyers win.
Volunteer
Apr 7, 18 9:51 am
How much money is involved?
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 10:03 am
About 40k fee total.
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 10:05 am
TYPO CORRECTION: I got greedy and wanted the entire fee.
I meant to say HE got greedy and wanted the entire fee
geezertect
Apr 7, 18 10:20 am
If it's a brand new building, one option is to do it all on your own by doing a completely new set of drawings. Don't touch the existing files. In fact, make them "feel" different. The design will probably be mostly the same, although no two buildings are ever done identically. That would then make this other architect have to argue that you "stole" his design. That would be harder for him to prove. If he tried to sue, he would be suing your client as well as you, which wouldn't be smart if he has designs on becoming this client's new boy.
There is obviously too much hostility for you to ever JV with this guy, so you may just have to call his bluff. Suing and winning are two different things, so don't panic when he threatens. There will be plenty of time to lawyer up.
The more interesting question is how you handle your client. Do you let him know about the behind-the-scenes drama now, or wait to see what unfolds? Do some homework on the legalities on your own so you have a better understanding of what your legal position is. Don't obsess about the morality of it.
Don't let emotions cloud your judgement, or you will start making stupid mistakes. It's nothing personal-just business. The Don Corleone School of Professional Managment.
Volunteer
Apr 7, 18 10:27 am
Who was the check for the fee made out to? A contract, written or verbal, exists when you provide goods or services to another for payment in money or other considerations.
geezertect
Apr 7, 18 10:34 am
Yup. A court will look to the behavior of the parties as to what the understanding was. That's where the OP is vulnerable, since he behaved like an underling by not stamping the drawings or signing the contract with the client.
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 11:41 am
This has nothing to do with me wanting the new project. Id honestly rather just walk away. I dont want anything else to do with this anymore. He can have the client. I just dont want to give him the CAD files I worked on for a past project. He can redraw everything himself if he wants. He insulted me personally, cut me out of my own client and demanded to profit off of my work. He knows how to draw so I figured he can recreate the drawings himself if he wants. I do understand its just business but I dont want to "give away" my hard work so he can profit from it. The check was in fact made out to him because the contract was with him. I just never saw anything like this coming. I have in email corresponsance that we agreed to work on this project together 50/50. I agreed to produce the drawings and he agreed to assist with the details and making sure everythign met code. The design was both of ours but he can have it. i dont care about the design. I never verbally or in writing told him that he could keep ownership of the CAD files. The "drawings" or PDFs are his to keep.
Maybe your right though. Its all about how the court sees it. I could definately see a judge looking glazed and confuzed when I try to explain the difference between a CAD file and a "drawing" or PDF. Maybe I just lost this one. Definately a learning experience. Funny how people can pretend to be so friendly and nice. He just seemed so happy and willing to help. I thought it would be good. Man I never saw this comng.
Miles Jaffe
Apr 7, 18 12:08 pm
Snarly mess to sort out in court. It's your client and your email agreement vs the client's contract and the seal. You are licensed. I'm betting it's a bluff. The cost of fighting would be prohibitive to any marginally rational person and it's shaky ground all around.
Offer to sell him your 50% interest (based on the email) in the drawings. The only thing to argue about is the value of that. Do it after signing a contract with the client for the next project, at which point it doesn't matter how much he pays you for the drawings.
Volunteer
Apr 7, 18 12:14 pm
In your favor is the fact that you have an email saying you would split 50/50 on the first project and also the fact that he did not take possession of the files at the time the first building was completed.
The judge may want to know why you just didn't do the whole project yourself. Did the guy provide any significant design or inspection input?
I doubt if the judge would rule entirely in his favor. An initial visit with a lawyer would not be that expensive. Perhaps a letter from your lawyer offering to split the fee for the new, and any subsequent buildings, 50/50 would be sufficient.
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 12:56 pm
The judge may want to know why you just didn't do the whole project yourself. Did the guy provide any significant design or inspection input?
99% of my work is light and heavy commercial and some medical. I have quite a good understanding of that. I have done a few houses here and there but not townhouses and not anything residential of this size. I just didnt know what I didnt know. You know? I dont know if that makes sense. I met this guy at an AIA group meetup and I had his card laying around and just asked him what he thought about doing the project together. He hapily agreed. He did have valuable input. Of course being a commercial architect I dont do structural calculations. We always hire an engineer for that. He did all the structural calculations for the project. Also all of my details were a bit overkill and he helped me tone it down to save some cost for the client. It was a good learning experience at first. It just all went south a few weeks after the client aproched me for a second project.
geezertect
Apr 7, 18 1:37 pm
Unless you want to diversify into multi-family, maybe the best thing is to tell the client that it really isn't your forte and wish him well. If he hires the other architect, wait until the other guy comes to you for the CAD files. At that point, he will be motivated to get them in his hands and he may be willing to just pay you something for them rather than litigate.
If the other guy was even doing the structural work, you don't want to press the point too far about being co-equal. This is when being a dumb little junior partner may be the best position.
For gods sake, whatever you do, get it in writing this time.
jrharvey
Apr 7, 18 1:55 pm
This makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the response. I agree I should have never started this project. I was and still am very new to running my own firm which just consist of myself. Its a constant learning process.
Miles Jaffe
Apr 7, 18 1:55 pm
This is never going to get to a judge. Ever. It's just a shakedown. Stop peeing in your pants already.
Tie up your ex-partner in negotiations while you sign the client. Then you can decide what you want to do. Acting out of fear is what he's depending on you doing. Don't be a dupe.
geezertect
Apr 7, 18 5:37 pm
Agreed. This isn't the kind of thing that anybody litigates over. Most (99%) developer clients are whores and aren't worth a fist fight in the parking lot over, let alone a lawsuit.
Miles Jaffe
Apr 7, 18 5:40 pm
I'm surprised that R. Balkins Esq. hasn't chimed in yet with legal advice.
Threatening to sue and actually doing so are totally different; further so is winning. Ignore the guy eventually he’ll go away once you stop responding.
Also keep in mind any correspondence via email, even at this point after the end of the project with the client, is discoverable, should he actually follow through with a suit, so you’d be wise to keep that conversation to a minimum.
Just in case, and for your peace of mind, collect any and all documents/emails/correspondence including notes + dates on whatever pertinent phone calls you’ve had specifically regarding contracts and deliverables both with him and the client. Keep this stuff stowed away for a period equal to the statute of limitations in your state.
If you have access to it, read through the only legally binding contract at play here, the one between the other architect and the client, to see if you’ve overlooked anything that could leave you on the hook.
curtkram
Apr 8, 18 7:21 pm
i can't see how you would be required to give him CAD files. if your agreement was to provide paper copies for him to sign, he has a right to paper copies. if your agreement was to provide pdf's, you have an obligation to provide pdf's. if your agreement was to provide a design, you provide a design. i don't see any scenario, based on what you've said here, where there could be an implied agreement to provide CAD files.
he probably does retain some rights to the design. if it were me, i would avoid cookie-cuttering onto another site.
jrharvey
Apr 10, 18 5:56 pm
Ive told the client that I wont do a copy/paste of the same design. Ive told the other guy I wont give up the CAD files without reasonable compensation. For now I am letting it go until I hear from either of them with an agreement.
sameolddoctor
Apr 10, 18 6:03 pm
Playing devil's advocate here - whats stopping your ex-partner from taking your drawings (printouts or PDF or whatever) and having a drafting firm reproduce it in CAD or Revit? I know firms that will do that for 7$ an hour...
jrharvey
Apr 10, 18 7:09 pm
Nothing is stopping him from hiring someone to redraw everything. If he wants to do that he is certainly capable. Itll just take a big chunk of his fee since this town is blowing up and there is more work than people to do it right now.
sameolddoctor
Apr 10, 18 7:45 pm
You will be surprised - (s)he can just outsource the drawing production. It will be crap, but passable.
jrharvey
Apr 10, 18 11:04 pm
I know. But at least he will have to pay for it. Im fine with that.
geezertect
Apr 11, 18 7:08 am
If the client is going to hire the other guy, it is good that he will have to do new drawings rather than use the ones done by you. Anything that puts a little more distance between you and the project will keep you out of the line of fire liability wise.
whistler
Apr 11, 18 1:14 pm
This is a great case study! Not a typical situation but muddy enough to be a challenge to resolve. There are battles and wars one has to chose which one you want to win, i.e. loose the battle with JV architect but win the war and gain the new developer client!
Miles Jaffe
Apr 11, 18 5:11 pm
Developers tend to be crappy clients. Maybe someone will start a shitty developer spreadsheet.
jrharvey
Apr 11, 18 5:23 pm
I dissagree. Most of my best clients have been developers. In my experience they tend to pay on time and have reasonable expectations. Its the uneducated clients I have trouble with. They dont know what they want. Developers always know exactly what they want in my experience.
Miles Jaffe
Apr 11, 18 5:56 pm
Pretty much the exact opposite of my experience. They are decisive, I'll grant you that. Especially when it comes to cutting throats. Maybe you're just dealing with amateurs ... which bring up a question: if you like them so much, why aren't you trying to retain the client?
Rusty!
Apr 11, 18 3:39 pm
Put the client in the middle of a large room and then both of you will be at opposite ends calling out to them like they were a puppy.
If you lose this challenge, then just give them the CAD drawings. But make sure you modify the design ever so slightly so that when it is finally constructed you can show up late at night in a pick up truck and just tow away the new house.
I was approached by a client wanting to do residential work. Multifamily stuff. My expertise is in commercial so I worked with another residential architect that wanted to team up. I didn't have a problem with it. We agreed to put his seal on the project because he was the residential expert. He didn't do any of the production. All of the cad files were created by me. Later the same client came back to me requesting more work. They wanted a copy of the same building. The other architect expressed that he wanted a much larger cut of the profit because it was his seal and his liability. I said ok well I could seal of that's more fair. The other guy got extremely offended and saying I can't do the work without him. I tried to keep things civil but he has now decided he wants to do this on his own and hire a draftsman to do his work. He told me to send him HIS Cad files. As far as I'm aware he has no right to demand the files correct? Ethically it was my client and he is trying to steal. Legally it is his name on the instruments of service however the CAD files are not his to keep. I have no contract with him and the way I see it is he is trying to reproduce my instruments of service without my consent or competition correct? He threatened to sue. Does he have any case at all or is it just a wild threat? I figured as long as I don't reproduce the last project I'm ok right?
Yes of course I would like to get out. This is a cluster for sure. However Ideally I would like to take the CAD files that I worked on and leave the situation. I dont see any reason for me to give him the files that I worked on so he can profit off of them without me being involved. He is convinced that because he was the sealholder that somehow he magically has ownership of the CAD files as well. We never had any agreement at all and we both got paid for our share. His reasoning for saying he will sue is that "I was working for him" and providing a service and we had an agreement that he would take ownership of the project. At no point did I ever agree to that and at no point did I ever agree to work FOR him. It was always established that we were a team and working together. I did my part and he did his. However now he is saying I was just a draftsman and he paid me for drafting services and now I am witholding the product after he paid me. The whole thing is nuts and I am starting to question the guys mental health. I aproached him with the job and if anything he was working for me but I would never aproach him and say that. Its so nuts.
Im not asking for legal advice at all. Im just wondering what you would do in this position.
I think he is misconstruing the relationship that you had for the previous project. However, it will depend on how the law interprets the ownership of the intellectual property.
Normally you own what you create. But you don't if you create it under contract to someone else. If you can prove that you created the drawings and he was hired as a supervision and peer review consultant, you might be clear because he would be under contract to you.
It will also depend on how your state jurisdiction defines the "seal." If I affix my personal seal to a set of documents that I prepare for my employer, do I own those documents? Probably not.
You are definitely in lawyer territory. You need to talk to an IP attorney.
Off the top of my head I think this other guy has the stronger case. It is his seal on the drawings, which implies he is the senior member of the "team", even though it started out as your client. Were you paid with separate checks? Who did the bulk of communication and paperwork with the client? Did either of you have a written agreement with the client? Sounds like you need to come up with an amicable (?) agreement. Don't litigate this thing. Not worth the fight.
I get where you are coming from here. From the outside it does apear as if I was "hired help". He did have the contract with the client since it was his seal. I was fine with that because he insisted. I didnt want the liability since residential is not my area. I never had a contract with him. My role was to create the DRAWINGS and at no point did we even verbally discuss ownership of the CAD files.
Personally this is the same as if the client had demanded my CAD files to reproduce my work with another architect. Everyone knows that a client cannot take my instruments of service and reproduce my work for another project even if he did pay me for this project. I dont understand how this could be different just because its another architect. The CAD files are my instruments of service and even if the court would see me as "hired help" my product is the PDF drawings. Not the CAD files.
This whole thing is just so frustrating. I cannot believe that there are people out there this dirty and this cuthroat.
If you were "hired help" I'm sure he violated all kinds of labor laws by paying you 1099. Might be some negotiating leverage there...Again no lawyer here... but if you were producing these files for him, they
they're not your instruments of service
Also contact with the client was very mutual. We both contacted the client equally. I may have even had more contact with the client than him.
I'm no lawyer, but it seems to me that the best case you could argue is that you did the building as a joint venture and that the drawings are jointly owned by both of you, and selling them to be used again requires consent of both parties. If a court would look on you as an employee of his, you're toast.
I take it that the client wants to use you, rather than him, as the architect for the new work (is it alterations on the existing building, or does he want to build a clone of it on another site?). If he wouldn't be hired again by your client, then that gives you some negotiating leverage, since his getting a smaller percentage of the new fee is better than 100% of nothing.
I hope you realize that just because he stamped the drawings wouldn't necessarily relieve you of liability in the real world. When the shit hits the fan in court, it lands on everybody. By trying to side-step liability, you also relinquished control of your fate. You then made it worse by going into this without anything in writing. Like I say, cut a deal that both of you can live with, and chalk the experience up to continuing education.
It's frustrating that schools don't teach any of this real world shit. Just a bunch of theory that means nothing in the practical world. Good luck.
The client wants a clone of the building on another site. Also the client really does not care who stamps the drawings. He only cares about getting his building built. The client really likes me and has complained about the other guy a little but maybe he doesnt care. My plan was to work on the project with the other architect the same as last time and it would be easy money for both of us. I was completely willing to just work things out. He was the one that started saying I was just a draftsman and insulting me for no reason. I got greedy and wanted the entire fee. I have 10 years as a licensed archtiect. Im not "just a draftsman". Honestly if he gets word of the drama then he may even find another architect all together. I want to wash my hands of this project and situation but maybe my pride is keeping me from doing so. Its mind boggling how dirty this guy played and how he really does not mind completely burning bridges because of his greed. Business is pretty cut throat. Ive been spoiled I guess because I have built so many good relationships with clients, contractors and other architects and we always get along so well. This guy seems to want to cheat his way up IDK. He didnt even want to talk about it he just started demanding things. Thats why I am so spiteful I guess and really dont want to let him use me anyone. He sent me a letter saying that he does not authorize me to use his design for the upcoming project. The crazy thing is I never even told him I would do that. I told him you have a misunderstanding and the plan was to work on it with you. Your the one trying to use OUR design all for yourself. Its like he is setting this whole thing up to screw me over. Thats why i dont want to just hand over the CAD files. I dont even know what to tell the client honestly. I like the client a lot but this isnt worth it. I feel kinda bad he is affected by this.
And yes I am aware that just becasue i dont have a stamp on the drawing I am still liable. In my entire career Ive never been involved in litigation so Ive been kinda sheltered from that.
I've never been sued either. I've just seen it second hand. Doesn't look like fun. Only the lawyers win.
How much money is involved?
About 40k fee total.
TYPO CORRECTION: I got greedy and wanted the entire fee.
I meant to say HE got greedy and wanted the entire fee
If it's a brand new building, one option is to do it all on your own by doing a completely new set of drawings. Don't touch the existing files. In fact, make them "feel" different. The design will probably be mostly the same, although no two buildings are ever done identically. That would then make this other architect have to argue that you "stole" his design. That would be harder for him to prove. If he tried to sue, he would be suing your client as well as you, which wouldn't be smart if he has designs on becoming this client's new boy.
There is obviously too much hostility for you to ever JV with this guy, so you may just have to call his bluff. Suing and winning are two different things, so don't panic when he threatens. There will be plenty of time to lawyer up.
The more interesting question is how you handle your client. Do you let him know about the behind-the-scenes drama now, or wait to see what unfolds? Do some homework on the legalities on your own so you have a better understanding of what your legal position is. Don't obsess about the morality of it.
Don't let emotions cloud your judgement, or you will start making stupid mistakes. It's nothing personal-just business. The Don Corleone School of Professional Managment.
Who was the check for the fee made out to? A contract, written or verbal, exists when you provide goods or services to another for payment in money or other considerations.
Yup. A court will look to the behavior of the parties as to what the understanding was. That's where the OP is vulnerable, since he behaved like an underling by not stamping the drawings or signing the contract with the client.
This has nothing to do with me wanting the new project. Id honestly rather just walk away. I dont want anything else to do with this anymore. He can have the client. I just dont want to give him the CAD files I worked on for a past project. He can redraw everything himself if he wants. He insulted me personally, cut me out of my own client and demanded to profit off of my work. He knows how to draw so I figured he can recreate the drawings himself if he wants. I do understand its just business but I dont want to "give away" my hard work so he can profit from it. The check was in fact made out to him because the contract was with him. I just never saw anything like this coming. I have in email corresponsance that we agreed to work on this project together 50/50. I agreed to produce the drawings and he agreed to assist with the details and making sure everythign met code. The design was both of ours but he can have it. i dont care about the design. I never verbally or in writing told him that he could keep ownership of the CAD files. The "drawings" or PDFs are his to keep.
Maybe your right though. Its all about how the court sees it. I could definately see a judge looking glazed and confuzed when I try to explain the difference between a CAD file and a "drawing" or PDF. Maybe I just lost this one. Definately a learning experience. Funny how people can pretend to be so friendly and nice. He just seemed so happy and willing to help. I thought it would be good. Man I never saw this comng.
Snarly mess to sort out in court. It's your client and your email agreement vs the client's contract and the seal. You are licensed. I'm betting it's a bluff. The cost of fighting would be prohibitive to any marginally rational person and it's shaky ground all around.
Offer to sell him your 50% interest (based on the email) in the drawings. The only thing to argue about is the value of that. Do it after signing a contract with the client for the next project, at which point it doesn't matter how much he pays you for the drawings.
In your favor is the fact that you have an email saying you would split 50/50 on the first project and also the fact that he did not take possession of the files at the time the first building was completed.
The judge may want to know why you just didn't do the whole project yourself. Did the guy provide any significant design or inspection input?
I doubt if the judge would rule entirely in his favor. An initial visit with a lawyer would not be that expensive. Perhaps a letter from your lawyer offering to split the fee for the new, and any subsequent buildings, 50/50 would be sufficient.
The judge may want to know why you just didn't do the whole project yourself. Did the guy provide any significant design or inspection input?
99% of my work is light and heavy commercial and some medical. I have quite a good understanding of that. I have done a few houses here and there but not townhouses and not anything residential of this size. I just didnt know what I didnt know. You know? I dont know if that makes sense. I met this guy at an AIA group meetup and I had his card laying around and just asked him what he thought about doing the project together. He hapily agreed. He did have valuable input. Of course being a commercial architect I dont do structural calculations. We always hire an engineer for that. He did all the structural calculations for the project. Also all of my details were a bit overkill and he helped me tone it down to save some cost for the client. It was a good learning experience at first. It just all went south a few weeks after the client aproched me for a second project.
Unless you want to diversify into multi-family, maybe the best thing is to tell the client that it really isn't your forte and wish him well. If he hires the other architect, wait until the other guy comes to you for the CAD files. At that point, he will be motivated to get them in his hands and he may be willing to just pay you something for them rather than litigate.
If the other guy was even doing the structural work, you don't want to press the point too far about being co-equal. This is when being a dumb little junior partner may be the best position.
For gods sake, whatever you do, get it in writing this time.
This makes a lot of sense. Thank you for the response. I agree I should have never started this project. I was and still am very new to running my own firm which just consist of myself. Its a constant learning process.
This is never going to get to a judge. Ever. It's just a shakedown. Stop peeing in your pants already.
Tie up your ex-partner in negotiations while you sign the client. Then you can decide what you want to do. Acting out of fear is what he's depending on you doing. Don't be a dupe.
Agreed. This isn't the kind of thing that anybody litigates over. Most (99%) developer clients are whores and aren't worth a fist fight in the parking lot over, let alone a lawsuit.
I'm surprised that R. Balkins Esq. hasn't chimed in yet with legal advice.
Let sleeping dogs lay (lie?).
..................chirping crickets..................................
Threatening to sue and actually doing so are totally different; further so is winning. Ignore the guy eventually he’ll go away once you stop responding.
Also keep in mind any correspondence via email, even at this point after the end of the project with the client, is discoverable, should he actually follow through with a suit, so you’d be wise to keep that conversation to a minimum.
Just in case, and for your peace of mind, collect any and all documents/emails/correspondence including notes + dates on whatever pertinent phone calls you’ve had specifically regarding contracts and deliverables both with him and the client. Keep this stuff stowed away for a period equal to the statute of limitations in your state.
If you have access to it, read through the only legally binding contract at play here, the one between the other architect and the client, to see if you’ve overlooked anything that could leave you on the hook.
i can't see how you would be required to give him CAD files. if your agreement was to provide paper copies for him to sign, he has a right to paper copies. if your agreement was to provide pdf's, you have an obligation to provide pdf's. if your agreement was to provide a design, you provide a design. i don't see any scenario, based on what you've said here, where there could be an implied agreement to provide CAD files.
he probably does retain some rights to the design. if it were me, i would avoid cookie-cuttering onto another site.
Ive told the client that I wont do a copy/paste of the same design. Ive told the other guy I wont give up the CAD files without reasonable compensation. For now I am letting it go until I hear from either of them with an agreement.
Playing devil's advocate here - whats stopping your ex-partner from taking your drawings (printouts or PDF or whatever) and having a drafting firm reproduce it in CAD or Revit? I know firms that will do that for 7$ an hour...
Nothing is stopping him from hiring someone to redraw everything. If he wants to do that he is certainly capable. Itll just take a big chunk of his fee since this town is blowing up and there is more work than people to do it right now.
You will be surprised - (s)he can just outsource the drawing production. It will be crap, but passable.
I know. But at least he will have to pay for it. Im fine with that.
If the client is going to hire the other guy, it is good that he will have to do new drawings rather than use the ones done by you. Anything that puts a little more distance between you and the project will keep you out of the line of fire liability wise.
This is a great case study! Not a typical situation but muddy enough to be a challenge to resolve. There are battles and wars one has to chose which one you want to win, i.e. loose the battle with JV architect but win the war and gain the new developer client!
Developers tend to be crappy clients. Maybe someone will start a shitty developer spreadsheet.
I dissagree. Most of my best clients have been developers. In my experience they tend to pay on time and have reasonable expectations. Its the uneducated clients I have trouble with. They dont know what they want. Developers always know exactly what they want in my experience.
Pretty much the exact opposite of my experience. They are decisive, I'll grant you that. Especially when it comes to cutting throats. Maybe you're just dealing with amateurs ... which bring up a question: if you like them so much, why aren't you trying to retain the client?
Put the client in the middle of a large room and then both of you will be at opposite ends calling out to them like they were a puppy.
If you lose this challenge, then just give them the CAD drawings. But make sure you modify the design ever so slightly so that when it is finally constructed you can show up late at night in a pick up truck and just tow away the new house.